Golden Pursuits - Choose which tasks to complete... Except not?

Syldras · December 3

Silaf wrote: »

Whith how long the queue normally is i take everyting...

Okay, it may be bearable for some in battlegrounds. But what's with vet dungeons and trials, for example? I don't think it helps anyone if a big percentage of a group is made of people who have no interest and/or no clue and just want to get it done (or get carried through it somehow) for a reward.

Artymiss · December 3

Silaf wrote: »

My problem is the "earn 10 event tikets" for the sword.
What happen if i complete the golden pursuit before unlocking the sword? Will i forever lose it?

I was going over the official discussion thread for this set of Golden Pursuits (latest thread under Dev Tracker), and learnt that you won't be locked out of any rewards even if you do complete the 20 required.

UrQuan · December 3

Silaf wrote: »

My problem is the "earn 10 event tikets" for the sword.
What happen if i complete the golden pursuit before unlocking the sword? Will i forever lose it?

Don't worry, they've confirmed that you can still complete the ones that grant specific rewards and get those rewards after you've already completed the 20 needed for the golden pursuit. That's something they've done right here.

SeaGtGruff · December 3

Hasn't the game always been designed like this, though? For example, if we want gear from a particular monster set, then we need to do a specific dungeon, that sort of thing. The Golden and the IA vendors may provide alternatives, but there are still certain things that aren't available that way, such as perfected gear.

Tommy_The_Gun · December 3

Trial one is a bummer.

I am not doing that one as there is no group finder support for trials (only player-driven sudo-lobby that never worked well for me). And so far there is no "solo trial" in the game (just like we have group or solo arenas).

OP is right here. There should be a choice and rewards should mesh with eachother.

Same reward should be tied to doing 1 Trial OR doing 5 group dungeons. For doing 3 trials there should be same reward as for doing PvP activity. And for doing more PvP activities, there should be for example some PvE reward. So you could actually chose what type of content you do, depending on what you like more.

Right now Golden Pursuit is becoming what I feared it will be - A Fomo driven marathon. When it was announced, I actually called it out, as I simply knew it will be a matter of time... and it is quite literally 2nd Golden Pursuit... did not took them long lol.

I would also want to suggest something.

There was this announcement that communication with ESO team will be slower as there was Thanksgiving holiday in the US and many ZOS employees were spending this time with their families.

So, may I know exactly why, for Christmas, we, ESO players are getting a marathon (on top of an upcoming event) ?

I mean I also want to spend this time with my family and there is a lot of preparation still to do. Today, I played almost 5 hours just to do most of the stuff, so that I will have time later. It felt like a chore. It was not fun experience. Like if I had a checklist of "stuff to do for Christmas", like clean that room, bake a cake etc. Lack of choice also did not helped much. For a time like this, more casual or at the very least less "time consuming" tasks would be way more appropriate for an event like this. So that it would be fun & stress reliever as ESO is basically (even in marketing info) a "shelter" from our daily routines.

Taril · December 3

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Hasn't the game always been designed like this, though? For example, if we want gear from a particular monster set, then we need to do a specific dungeon, that sort of thing. The Golden and the IA vendors may provide alternatives, but there are still certain things that aren't available that way, such as perfected gear.

Yes, but:

1) Those aren't part of a limited time event. You can get around to doing them whenever.

2) Those were implemented with the specific notion of being from specific content. They're not going "Oh, look, you have flexibility to do what you want from a selection of things!" and then backhanding with "So long as you choose these things"

Like, I have no problems with rewards being set up for specific tasks. I even encourage things like rewards for achievements and Trials/PvP/Vets (Depending on exactly what those rewards are)

What I have an issue with, is the way that this particular thing is being handled. Where on the one hand they're advertising the ability to choose activities... But on the other they're saying "No, do these specific things"

Also, if we want to talk about how the game has "Always been designed" well... Limited time events have always had multiple options for participation. Like, take for example the recent High Isle event, you could get the event specific items from doing Vents, WB's, daily quests (Including the ToT dailies) or just killing things/looting stuff in the zones.

To say nothing about Endeavors, which provide a selection of options which you only have to do some of. They were never "Oh you can do any 3 of these 5 daily endeavors... But only these 3 give this other reward"

virtus753 · December 3

Taril wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Hasn't the game always been designed like this, though? For example, if we want gear from a particular monster set, then we need to do a specific dungeon, that sort of thing. The Golden and the IA vendors may provide alternatives, but there are still certain things that aren't available that way, such as perfected gear.

Yes, but:

1) Those aren't part of a limited time event. You can get around to doing them whenever.

2) Those were implemented with the specific notion of being from specific content. They're not going "Oh, look, you have flexibility to do what you want from a selection of things!" and then backhanding with "So long as you choose these things"

Like, I have no problems with rewards being set up for specific tasks. I even encourage things like rewards for achievements and Trials/PvP/Vets (Depending on exactly what those rewards are)

What I have an issue with, is the way that this particular thing is being handled. Where on the one hand they're advertising the ability to choose activities... But on the other they're saying "No, do these specific things"

Also, if we want to talk about how the game has "Always been designed" well... Limited time events have always had multiple options for participation. Like, take for example the recent High Isle event, you could get the event specific items from doing Vents, WB's, daily quests (Including the ToT dailies) or just killing things/looting stuff in the zones.

To say nothing about Endeavors, which provide a selection of options which you only have to do some of. They were never "Oh you can do any 3 of these 5 daily endeavors... But only these 3 give this other reward"

Except they did have a series of endeavors where certain ones gave many more seals than others, and you could lock yourself out of the ones that granted extra seals. By design.

Erickson9610 · December 3

Taril wrote: »

To say nothing about Endeavors, which provide a selection of options which you only have to do some of. They were never "Oh you can do any 3 of these 5 daily endeavors... But only these 3 give this other reward"

For a while, some Endeavors would give you more Seals of Endeavor or Gold than others would. The difference here is that unlike Endeavors, you aren't locked out of completing the remaining tasks if you've already reached the capstone reward in any given Golden Pursuit.

Taril · December 3

virtus753 wrote: »

Except they did have a series of endeavors where certain ones gave many more seals than others, and you could lock yourself out of the ones that granted extra seals. By design.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

For a while, some Endeavors would give you more Seals of Endeavor or Gold than others would. The difference here is that unlike Endeavors, you aren't locked out of completing the remaining tasks if you've already reached the capstone reward in any given Golden Pursuit.

But these were simply more of a generic reward, not an extra bonus reward.

You still got your seals (Gold/exp) for completing any tasks. You simply got more for doing specific tasks. The exception would be some event related additions like Undaunted Keys, however these bonus rewards are things that are attainable from other sources in the game.

Whereby, with the current Golden Pursuits design, you can complete literally every other task possible. You won't get the bonus weapon styles unless you do the specific tasks that grant them.

The endeavor thing would be like if some tasks provided extra contribution towards the main rewards or provided some extra non-unique bonus (Like Gold or AP). Incentivising their completion. Not requiring them.

AngryPenguin · December 3

This round of golden pursuits kinda made me laugh. I'm not interested in any of the rewards in this golden pursuit that is 34 days long. The only thing I want even a little bit is the free crates to see how many gems I get out of them.

AngryPenguin · December 3

Syldras wrote: »

Maitsukas wrote: »

Also Battlegrounds require you to participate in a match until it ends (doesn't matter if you win or lose), you don't even have to kill anyone there if you don't want to, just run around the maps.

Which is actually another reason I think PVP-related (edit: or generally grouping-related) tasks aren't a good idea. Imagine people who actually want to play battlegrounds get grouped with desinterested players who just want to get the pursuit completed all the time now for the upcoming days. Ruins the fun for everyone, both the people who want to PvP as well as those who don't actually want to but force themselves into it just for the reward.

Would make sense to give people a non-PvP alternative, so people who enjoy PvP can earn the reward that way and everyone else can just choose the alternative.

Should there be a PvP option to equal every PvE option in the tasks to complete the golden pursuit so that the PvP players who hate PvE don't have to PvE to complete the golden pursuit?

AngryPenguin · December 3

darvaria wrote: »

Yeah I was concerned as to which to eliminate ..... until I previewed that Shoal Bear mount ..........

NTY

The bear animation ZOS went with makes me dizzy and gives me a bit of motion sickness, so the bear mounts and other mounts that use the bear animation are a no go for me as well.

Hapexamendios · December 3

I think my biggest concern about doing the ones for the specific style pages is the Battle Ground queue actually working. I don't mind doing one.

Taril · December 3

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Maitsukas wrote: »

Also Battlegrounds require you to participate in a match until it ends (doesn't matter if you win or lose), you don't even have to kill anyone there if you don't want to, just run around the maps.

Which is actually another reason I think PVP-related (edit: or generally grouping-related) tasks aren't a good idea. Imagine people who actually want to play battlegrounds get grouped with desinterested players who just want to get the pursuit completed all the time now for the upcoming days. Ruins the fun for everyone, both the people who want to PvP as well as those who don't actually want to but force themselves into it just for the reward.

Would make sense to give people a non-PvP alternative, so people who enjoy PvP can earn the reward that way and everyone else can just choose the alternative.

Should there be a PvP option to equal every PvE option in the tasks to complete the golden pursuit so that the PvP players who hate PvE don't have to PvE to complete the golden pursuit?

Ideally, yes.

Providing people with more flexibility to attain progress towards events is a positive result.

Especially since the overall idea of even having tasks in the first place rather than a simple log in reward, is to get people to play the game.

Whether people play the game in PvP, PvE or sat in their homes slapping down funiture. The end result is the same one that ZOS wants, increased player engagement.

There can be times when an event is trying to boost engagement of a specific activity (Such as the themed events) where restriction make sense. But for Golden Pursuits, where the entire premise is "Do... Things" there should be equal opportunities to PvP or PvE your way to completion (Of ALL rewards)

Syldras · December 3

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Should there be a PvP option to equal every PvE option in the tasks to complete the golden pursuit so that the PvP players who hate PvE don't have to PvE to complete the golden pursuit?

Of course. Why should there not be options for everyone?

alpha_synuclein · December 4

Syldras wrote: »

Silaf wrote: »

Whith how long the queue normally is i take everyting...

Okay, it may be bearable for some in battlegrounds. But what's with vet dungeons and trials, for example? I don't think it helps anyone if a big percentage of a group is made of people who have no interest and/or no clue and just want to get it done (or get carried through it somehow) for a reward.

Was there anything vet on the task list?

And if not, but someone takes this as an opportunity to dip into vet, good for them. They might actually like it and stay in this type of content.

I honestly like to see group activities in both endeavours and now pursuits. If it encourages more players who might otherwise not try them to do so, then it's a positive thing.

wolfie1.0. · December 4

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Trial one is a bummer.

I am not doing that one as there is no group finder support for trials (only player-driven sudo-lobby that never worked well for me). And so far there is no "solo trial" in the game (just like we have group or solo arenas).

OP is right here. There should be a choice and rewards should mesh with eachother.

Same reward should be tied to doing 1 Trial OR doing 5 group dungeons. For doing 3 trials there should be same reward as for doing PvP activity. And for doing more PvP activities, there should be for example some PvE reward. So you could actually chose what type of content you do, depending on what you like more.

Right now Golden Pursuit is becoming what I feared it will be - A Fomo driven marathon. When it was announced, I actually called it out, as I simply knew it will be a matter of time... and it is quite literally 2nd Golden Pursuit... did not took them long lol.

I would also want to suggest something.

There was this announcement that communication with ESO team will be slower as there was Thanksgiving holiday in the US and many ZOS employees were spending this time with their families.

So, may I know exactly why, for Christmas, we, ESO players are getting a marathon (on top of an upcoming event) ?

I mean I also want to spend this time with my family and there is a lot of preparation still to do. Today, I played almost 5 hours just to do most of the stuff, so that I will have time later. It felt like a chore. It was not fun experience. Like if I had a checklist of "stuff to do for Christmas", like clean that room, bake a cake etc. Lack of choice also did not helped much. For a time like this, more casual or at the very least less "time consuming" tasks would be way more appropriate for an event like this. So that it would be fun & stress reliever as ESO is basically (even in marketing info) a "shelter" from our daily routines.

Considering it runs all month, there is plenty of time to get them all done. There are probably players that have most of these done by the end of the week. 34 days is one of the longer promotions for these things.

Varana · December 4

Are threads like this the result of "we want more rewards to be able to be earned in-game"? That's depressing.

What this is about is not "earned", it's about "being handed on a silver platter". If you want an in-game thing, do the in-game activity. If you want the Godslayer title, do the Sunspire trifecta. If you don't want to do that, you will live without it. It's pixels, for the Divines' sake.

Syldras · December 4

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Was there anything vet on the task list?

It was a general statement how pushing people into group content by offering them rewards, while they don't have any actual interest in the content itself, might ruin the fun for everyone. This time, there are no vet dungeons on the list, but trials, I think. Honestly I doubt it's much fun for anyone if people just join a group to get it done without real interest.

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

And if not, but someone takes this as an opportunity to dip into vet, good for them. They might actually like it and stay in this type of content.

Do people really need rewards to try things they find interesting? I'm really simple in that regard: If I find an activity interesting, then I'll just try it out of curiosity. I don't need incentives for that. And if I lack interest in something, a reward won't change anything about that either.

To be honest, I've just counted all pursuits on the list and realized that without PvP and trials I'd be missing 2 tasks for the final reward (I'd be stuck at 18/20). The easiest remaining tasks would probably be joining 1 and 5 battlegrounds, because the outcome doesn't matter. But honestly, if I'd join a random group and just wander around or stare at the clouds (or just die and remain dead and go afk), wouldn't I be ruining it for teammates who actually want to win? And if many people do that for the pursuit now, wouldn't it be disruptive for the whole system for the upcoming weeks? I don't see how this is a good idea from ZOS.

Taril · December 4

Varana wrote: »

Are threads like this the result of "we want more rewards to be able to be earned in-game"? That's depressing.

What this is about is not "earned", it's about "being handed on a silver platter". If you want an in-game thing, do the in-game activity. If you want the Godslayer title, do the Sunspire trifecta. If you don't want to do that, you will live without it. It's pixels, for the Divines' sake.

The thing is, that this is an event. The purpose of which is to "Hand things on a silver platter" because there's only a limited time to ever complete it and it is based around putzing around with generic content.

I'm not against rewards for specific things. Godslayer title from the Sunspire trifecta is fine. Rewards for getting Emperor is fine. Having style pages come from specific zones is fine.

This isn't about being upset about having to "Earn" a reward. In fact, I'm significantly for providing more rewards for doing specific content (I've even gone on record with saying that I would rather Golden Persuits feature new content that is tied to the rewards over random generic content based tasks)

My qualm is entirely about the dichotomy between "Choose what tasks you want to complete the event" and "Do these specific tasks to get these event exclusive rewards"

Not only do these things contradict each other, but the very nature of the selection of tasks that are tied to the rewards are completely arbitrary.

Does it make sense that the 2 handed mace skin is locked behind doing A trial? Does that make it feel more earned? Will you run around showing off your prowess at being able to complete a single trial by wearing this skin? No.

It's not even about the specific tasks themselves either. If all of the bonus rewards were tied to things like "Do X quests" or "Kill X enemies" or "Sell X things to vendors" that ridiculously easy to complete in practically no time at all, then my qualm would still exist. The whole concept of this "Do what you want but actually do these things" is my issue.

Like, I still have this qualm even though I don't care about the weapon styles at all. Simply because it sets a precedent for things that could get worse while providing little to nothing in return.

Things like this don't help to alleviate concerns of "Needing more rewarding content" because it's simply about "Do X generic tasks during this limited time period" rather than actually engaging in the content (And worse, it can make content get watered down by people not interested in the content running it - Causing PvP to be filled with people who don't like or want to PvP and PvE to get filled with people with no interest in PvE)

Dragonnord · December 4

Taril wrote: »

So, the current Golden Pursuits are up and to achieve the rewards you have to complete any 20 of the 29 tasks, making it more flexible than the prior one where you had to complete all 4/4 tasks.

Except, that for some reason, there are rewards tied to specific tasks as well. Meaning that you don't have a choice of tasks to complete if you want those specific rewards.

I'm here to provide feedback that I'm not a fan of this. It undermines the entire point of providing additional tasks so that a player can choose which ones to complete.

So what you mean is this, right?

29 tasks for ENDGAMERS (like complete dungeons hard modes, trials, trials hard modes, trials achievements, etc.)
29 tasks for PVPERS (like kill players in Cyrodill, get to x level in Cyro, play x amount of BGs)
29 tasks for veteran PVERS (complete x vet dungeons, kill x amount of side bosses in vet dungeons, etc.)
29 tasks for casual PVERS (kill x amount of delve bosses, complete x amount of side quests, etc.)
29 tasks for ROLE PLAYERS (like perform x amount of emotes, use the roleplay chat for x amount of time, walk x amount of time in towns, etc.)
29 tasks for HOUSING...
29 tasks for ToT PLAYERS...
29 tasks for...
29 tasks for...
29 tasks for...
and so on...

So like 28747 different options of Golden Pursuits to fill every possible playing style.

Syldras · December 4

I hope for a golden pursuit now that focusses solely on ToT and locks completely unrelated cosmetics behind it.

Not because I like ToT (in fact I find it horribly boring), but to see the reactions.

araminta63 · December 4

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Which of these is just too much for you to go out of your way to complete, and the reward is something you absolutely must have otherwise you'll feel cheated?

[*] Complete 1 Trial - Maul

I've never done a trial. I don't have the gear for one. I don't have a team to do one. I don't even know how many people that would even take.

The completionist in me cries over not getting all the weapon skins. But in actuality none of my 20 characters use a maul.

So I'll skip it.

Taril · December 4

Dragonnord wrote: »

Taril wrote: »

So, the current Golden Pursuits are up and to achieve the rewards you have to complete any 20 of the 29 tasks, making it more flexible than the prior one where you had to complete all 4/4 tasks.

Except, that for some reason, there are rewards tied to specific tasks as well. Meaning that you don't have a choice of tasks to complete if you want those specific rewards.

I'm here to provide feedback that I'm not a fan of this. It undermines the entire point of providing additional tasks so that a player can choose which ones to complete.

So what you mean is this, right?

29 tasks for ENDGAMERS (like complete dungeons hard modes, trials, trials hard modes, trials achievements, etc.)
29 tasks for PVPERS (like kill players in Cyrodill, get to x level in Cyro, play x amount of BGs)
29 tasks for veteran PVERS (complete x vet dungeons, kill x amount of side bosses in vet dungeons, etc.)
29 tasks for casual PVERS (kill x amount of delve bosses, complete x amount of side quests, etc.)
29 tasks for ROLE PLAYERS (like perform x amount of emotes, use the roleplay chat for x amount of time, walk x amount of time in towns, etc.)
29 tasks for HOUSING...
29 tasks for ToT PLAYERS...
29 tasks for...
29 tasks for...
29 tasks for...
and so on...

So like 28747 different options of Golden Pursuits to fill every possible playing style.

No.

Just 29 tasks. Where any combination of 20 will accrue ALL rewards.

Not 29 tasks. Where any combination of 20 will accrue some rewards, while other rewards require you to do specific tasks.

In regards to an idyllic scenario, it would be something like:

45 tasks. 15 PvE focused, 15 PvP focused, 15 focused on alternate content (Housing, ToT, Crafting, Antiquities etc). Any combination of 10 will accrue ALL rewards. (Of course, numbers can all be scaled per specific Golden Pursuit)

Heck, with such a thing you can make it so that each individual task provides a small reward (Gold, APs, Tel Vars, materials) and you can continue to complete tasks after earning the Golden Pursuit rewards. So there's a small incentive to go full completionist, while not necessary to get the unique rewards.

spartaxoxo · December 4

araminta63 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Which of these is just too much for you to go out of your way to complete, and the reward is something you absolutely must have otherwise you'll feel cheated?

[*] Complete 1 Trial - Maul

I've never done a trial. I don't have the gear for one. I don't have a team to do one. I don't even know how many people that would even take.

The completionist in me cries over not getting all the weapon skins. But in actuality none of my 20 characters use a maul.

So I'll skip it.

You can just join or start a normal trial in group finder and people will take care of the rest. You don't need special gear to do it on normal.

liliub17_ESO · December 4

While I may/may not finish all the everything in a month - being a "productive member of society" kinda blows when one would rather be in-game - I rather like the list of golden tasks. I don't PvP, trials or Battlegrounds, but there's a large variety of things to keep me occupied ... and it's almost all stuff I'd be doing anyhow so now I get an extra reward.

JemadarofCaerSalis · December 4

Syldras wrote: »

Taril wrote: »

Nothing.
However, I dislike the overall design and would hate for something I do really want to be locked behind a specific activity despite the overall premise of the system being about having flexibility in what activities are done.
(At least while the entire system focuses around regurgitating existing content rather than specifically newly designed content)

I haven't even looked yet how that new style looks like, but generally speaking, if there's one specific weapon style I'd like for roleplay reasons, and that one is locked behind PvP or a trial, I'd find it unfortunate. Doesn't change a thing if some other weapon styles are much easier to obtain, if that's not what I "need" for my character. Bad luck, of course, and everyone has to decide for themselves what they find worth the hassle (I have accepted years ago that there are a few things that would fit a character concept I have in mind perfectly, but are not obtainable for me), but still, more choice would always be appreciated.

This is honestly how I feel. I am not sure whether I will do the trials or the battlegrounds, I haven't touched either of those systems and am not sure how I would do in them.

Group dungeons? I probably can find a group in one of my guilds that will be willing to drag me along.

I don't *like* that I will be locked out of two of the rewards potentially, but, I can live with it. What I would love, however, would be ways in the future to gain any exclusive rewards (as in, they aren't available any other way, crown crates can be bought or given through daily rewards and we can buy the rewards through endeavors), even if it meant they are brought back as future task rewards (as long as they aren't the *exact same* task. So, the trial reward would be brought back, but say as a reward for killing 5 world bosses or even 10 world bosses. Things like that)

I have long grown to dislike truly 'exclusive' rewards, though I have also learned to ignore them when they aren't obtainable for me. I just like it when games give choices in how things are obtained and/or are willing to bring things back to allow others the chance to obtain them.

Juju_beans · December 4

I saw that list today and decided that I'm just gonna play the game and if I get something...great.
I'm not going to chase these numbers.

And so I did today...questing, exploring, whatnot and I ended up getting a few armor pieces and the 3 crates.

spartaxoxo · December 4

I tried the new casual battlegrounds and I actually enjoyed it way more than the previous ones. I had only planned on doing 1 but I ended up doing 2 because I wanted a win! I think maybe the MMR is better or something now too because I felt actually able to contribute in a 8v8. Please note sorc are good at getting finishing blows so don't read too much into my score lol. I think the scoring should be fixed because my team did most of the work. But hey, I was happy to just feel like I had a shot in both matches, even the one I lost.

darvaria · December 4

Is there an MMR on 8v8? I thought not.