Golden Pursuits - Choose which tasks to complete... Except not?

wolfie1.0.

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I am much more concerned with the 10 event tickets to get one of the style sheets. The Golden pursuit is there for 33 days and I guess there will be an event within that period or it would not make any sense to have this task. At the same time this event will fall on a time period were a lot of folks will travel to relatives and where there are a lot of family activity preventing people to play.

I am quite certain some of the players will simply not be able to play the event due to this and on top of that these people will also miss that specific reward for the Golden Pursuit.

Event is 20 days, and will "likely" be 3 per day, the quests are fast and only take a few minutes. 4 days and done, so can be done on the weekends

alpha_synuclein

Syldras wrote: »

The better question is: Why not give everyone enough choices to not having to engage in something they are absolutely not interested in? It's not like the number of choices has to be strictly limited. It's all ZOS' decision. They could as well have given us a list of 40 things (let's say 10 each for PvP, group PvE, questing related, random overland stuff) and let us do 10. So people who mostly quest could just do these by questing stuff, people who only PvP could get the rewards by PvPing, and people who enjoy everything could just mix it how ever they like. Why not such a more generous approach?

Because we differ greatly in what we are interested in. And the number of choices perfect for each player would be vastly different. You clearly feel like you didn't get enough choices. I'm fine with how zos set things up. And our very different opinions are just two grains of sand in the dessert. If you are working with such big audience you cannot make everyone happy. As this thread clearly proves What they ended up doing feels like a rather reasonable compromise.

Hapexamendios

I was a little put off at first by being essentially cut out of the leveling options, but there's more than enough remaining for me to be able to complete the 20 required tasks rather easily. Did a couple battle ground this morning and it wasn't too bad. Not something I'll do when not required just tolerable.

alpha_synuclein

Taril wrote: »

Yes?

Like, literally, just not sticking rewards behind specific tasks would make it be absolutely fine and dandy without a problem (Aside from the whole "Gain levels" kerfuffle)

Outside of this focus on "Do this SPECIFIC task for a reward", it is perfectly fine. A plethora of different activities that a player has the ability to choose which ones to do in order to get the required number to acquire the rewards.

Since if you note, I have not once expressed dissatisfaction with the presence of any particular task. There being PvP tasks is fine, there being Trials tasks is fine. They could put in Vet tasks and that would be fine. As the basis of the event is having options, once can simply... Choose other tasks instead. That's why there's 29 tasks but only 20 are required to get the final mount reward.

The qualm I have, is the secondary unique reward tied to specific activities (As I mentioned in a prior post, non-unique rewards are fine. Minor things like currency/resources that can be obtained easily from other sources is fine, as these just provide incentive not requirement). This literally goes against the aforementioned premise of giving players options to complete their variety of tasks.

The fact that they stated that there will be some choices of activties at the basis of the system does not necessarily mean that they cannot drop some little extras tied to specific things. Those two are not mutually exclusive.

sarahthes

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Taril wrote: »

Yes?

Like, literally, just not sticking rewards behind specific tasks would make it be absolutely fine and dandy without a problem (Aside from the whole "Gain levels" kerfuffle)

Outside of this focus on "Do this SPECIFIC task for a reward", it is perfectly fine. A plethora of different activities that a player has the ability to choose which ones to do in order to get the required number to acquire the rewards.

Since if you note, I have not once expressed dissatisfaction with the presence of any particular task. There being PvP tasks is fine, there being Trials tasks is fine. They could put in Vet tasks and that would be fine. As the basis of the event is having options, once can simply... Choose other tasks instead. That's why there's 29 tasks but only 20 are required to get the final mount reward.

The qualm I have, is the secondary unique reward tied to specific activities (As I mentioned in a prior post, non-unique rewards are fine. Minor things like currency/resources that can be obtained easily from other sources is fine, as these just provide incentive not requirement). This literally goes against the aforementioned premise of giving players options to complete their variety of tasks.

The fact that they stated that there will be some choices of activties at the basis of the system does not necessarily mean that they cannot drop some little extras tied to specific things. Those two are not mutually exclusive.

Agreed. Personally, I kind of like that they've tied specific extra/bonus rewards to specific activities.

Taril

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

The fact that they stated that there will be some choices of activties at the basis of the system does not necessarily mean that they cannot drop some little extras tied to specific things. Those two are not mutually exclusive.

Clearly.

However, as is my right, I'm providing my feedback that I'm not pleased with this method of gating unique event rewards behind specific tasks in events based mostly around providing freedom in tasks.

Just as it is someone else's right to provide feedback saying they love having to do a specific task to get random unrelated shiny rewards if they so wish.

katanagirl1

I posted earlier today about how I am enjoying getting stuff while earning more stuff. I participate in a lot of different in-game activities so I don’t mind doing things to get the weapon style pages. I don’t really see a problem with it, you have plenty of things to choose from if you don’t like certain activities.

This activity is bringing players back to populate areas and the group finder is listing trials even early in the morning. I was looking to do a quick naa but chose a vaa run that claimed to be quick and easy. Well…someone thought we were doing too good and started hard mode. It took a few wipes but I actually got a new best score while in that pug!

This is actually bringing life back into the game.

I ended up getting the Nord statue today and I have such a full inventory that I bought Autumn’s Gate just so I had somewhere to put it.

Taril

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t really see a problem with it, you have plenty of things to choose from if you don’t like certain activities.

Except for the specific rewards of the unique weapon styles. Where you don't have anything to choose from if you want that particular thing.

Which is my point.

The overall system promotes freedom. You have plenty of tasks available and not all are required to get the main rewards.

But then there's this arbitrary secondary unique reward tied to specific tasks undermining that entire concept of freedom. Since if you want these event exclusive rewards, you have to do these specific tasks.

DenverRalphy

Taril wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t really see a problem with it, you have plenty of things to choose from if you don’t like certain activities.

Except for the specific rewards of the unique weapon styles. Where you don't have anything to choose from if you want that particular thing.

Which is my point.

The overall system promotes freedom. You have plenty of tasks available and not all are required to get the main rewards.

But then there's this arbitrary secondary unique reward tied to specific tasks undermining that entire concept of freedom. Since if you want these event exclusive rewards, you have to do these specific tasks.

Every player has complete freedom of choice. If they want the item, then they can choose to either go get it, or not. It's right there for the taking. It all depends on whether the player decides whether it's worth the effort or not.

Players need to stop blaming the game for not being able to get something simply because they don't want to perform the task/s required.

Now if they made an item quite literally impossible to acquire for a specific subset of players, that would be a different issue. But they haven't.

Taril

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Every player has complete freedom of choice. If they want the item, then they can choose to either go get it, or not. It's right there for the taking. It all depends on whether the player decides whether it's worth the effort or not.

If you want to get philosophical, people have the complete freedom to play the game or not. So all those things tied to specific tasks (Like titles from Trifectas)? No they're offering freedom of choice! People can choose to play the game or not. Crown Store exclusives? No they're not exclusive people can pay for them or not! /s

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Players need to stop blaming the game for not being able to get something simply because they don't want to perform the task/s required.

People need to stop and actually think about what is actually being discussed. Especially since I've never once stated that I cannot acquire any of these items. I've never even so much as mentioned having a preference for or against any particular task. I have even specifically mentioned that I would have the same qualms irregardless of what tasks were chosen to have the unique rewards tied to.

The overall premise of Golden Pursuits is seemingly about providing freedom of which tasks to complete to obtain its exclusive rewards. That's the entire purpose of it having a progress bar that fills up when tasks are completed.

However, this overall "Freedom" becomes undermined when specific tasks are given a portion of the Golden Pursuit's unique rewards.

Thus, I am expressing my personal feedback about such duality within a system.

Whether other people agree or disagree, whether ZOS does anything with this feedback, is irrelevant. ZOS may consider it or they may not.

However, my personal opinion is that Golden Pursuits would feel better if all of the unique rewards were tied to the progress bar that allows for a freedom of task selection. Whether they choose to add non-exclusive rewards to specific tasks, I couldn't care less if they did or not. What the tasks themselves actually are? Again, I don't care.

I find that personally, it rubs me the wrong way to have a system illicit two contrasting designs. Heck, it even bothered me for the first Golden Pursuit that it only had the 4 tasks and all of them were required to get the progress (I just gave it a pass because it was the intro one so figured that's why they didn't provide more tasks)

Again, ZOS is free to do what they want. They can continue to make Pursuits like this one where some of the unique rewards are tied to specific tasks (They can even be worse and start sticking paywalls on receiving Golden Pursuit unique rewards if they so choose).

However, I'm allowed to put forth my opinion about such things. Hence, creating this thread about the topic. If ZOS choose to act upon such opinion, is up to them.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Now if they made an item quite literally impossible to acquire for a specific subset of players, that would be a different issue.

Yes, that would be a different issue. That's why it's not being discussed.

Weird to bring that up, given its non-relevance to the discussion.

TaSheen

The only thing about the current crop of weapon styles is that I just don't like them, or really any of the weapon styles available through the crown store; the only ones I really like are the soul-shriven greatsword - for which yes, I could drag my other accounts mains' rears through the MQ and Cadwell again (no thank you) - so I just bought the ebony blade instead. If it was a style I liked, I'd figure out how to get the ones I want....

Hmm. Reminds me - I need to check when the ebony blade might be back in the store, since I have a new account that needs it.

sarahthes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Taril wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t really see a problem with it, you have plenty of things to choose from if you don’t like certain activities.

Except for the specific rewards of the unique weapon styles. Where you don't have anything to choose from if you want that particular thing.

Which is my point.

The overall system promotes freedom. You have plenty of tasks available and not all are required to get the main rewards.

But then there's this arbitrary secondary unique reward tied to specific tasks undermining that entire concept of freedom. Since if you want these event exclusive rewards, you have to do these specific tasks.

Every player has complete freedom of choice. If they want the item, then they can choose to either go get it, or not. It's right there for the taking. It all depends on whether the player decides whether it's worth the effort or not.

Players need to stop blaming the game for not being able to get something simply because they don't want to perform the task/s required.

Now if they made an item quite literally impossible to acquire for a specific subset of players, that would be a different issue. But they haven't.

I actually think it would be incredible if they added a special reward in a future pursuit for doing something sweaty in a raid, or a dungeon, or solo arena, or IA, or PvP. Make it the same reward with multiple paths that lock out (so people can pick which one they prefer).

thedocbwarren

I don't want to do any group content and I won't be able to make the levels. I'm not happy I won't complete 20, the other hand I got all the other rewards and not sure what I need any of them for. Think is completion for me as I don't PVP and keep my set the same and build the same and just enjoy the content. I prefer more content than these golden endeavors, but I guess this is direction.

sarahthes

Next time they should just hide the level up pursuits on characters that can't level up. What you don't know can't annoy you.

ElvenOverlord

“Let’s not start with straw man arguments. People who don’t like rewards tied to one specific type of task are not saying they want that reward for doing nothing. Literally no one has said that so don’t know where that even came from. They’re saying let them earn the rewards but not tie a random axe for example to content they don’t do like Trials for example.”

Reposting my comment here from the other thread to reiterate what I said. A person replied to KD and continued to double down and miss the point. Again rewards do not NEED to be tied to a specific type of content especially a simple axe to something like trials. This is proven since 3 rewards: the crates, the bear mount, and the gathering emote are not tied to one specific type of content. So no you wouldn’t be earning any rewards for nothing. Pretty simple concept.

Pelanora

A game designed with some 50,000 odd players in mind, but alas what they settled on doesn't suit you. My sympathy but hey, what are the chances.

Did you want another currency to buy things with, from only what they decide to offer you, only within a set time? That's not very free choice?

It would only be free choice if you got a currency to buy from a store that offered all things ever made all the time.

(Which would be amazing tbh).

Or if I happen to run content, I get whatever rewards are in that content, leads, motifs, monster sets, whatever, and also, I get a new arms style.

All seems very BAU to me.

loosej

I'm still on the fence about this one to be honest.

On the one hand I agree that this isn't good design. The specific task/reward combinations do not fit within a "choose your favorite activity" system. A more logical approach would have been to put them in the same queue as the collectibles and give them as rewards each time you complete a certain amount of tasks.

On the other hand, I'm cp 2700 (mostly writs tbh) and had never done a trial last week, while today I've collected all the body pieces from nCR+0. Important to note though is that I didn't jump in hoping to be carried. I had planned to farm the gear for a while, my build was ready, I was parsing 90k, and I had read guides and looked at videos to get familiar with the mechanics. I just always found a reason to postpone actually running the trial, and I have to admit that this golden pursuit was the last little push I needed to do so.

The first run I joined using the group finder went great. Everyone was high level and seemed familiar with the fights, and we took the bosses down in no time. I forgot every single mechanic the moment the first fight started, but it didn't seem to matter all that much, and I managed not to die.

The second run went similar, but the third one was tricky. A whole lot of very low level players, and multiple wipes before we got the final boss down. After that it was a bit of a mix, some smooth runs and some with multiple wipes. There no way for me to guess numbers, or to compare to other situations. But the design of the golden pursuits and a bit of experience with human behavior tells me that there will have been people who were there for the style page and couldn't care less otherwise.

And I think I've seen the same thing in battlegrounds. Having the occasional squishy opponent who goes down in two gcd's isn't unusual, but taking down three of them in a row like that is. It's fun the first time but gets boring real quick, and it's definitely not fun when they're on your team.

So while I think the intent is commendable (get people out of their comfort zone and try different aspects of the game), the implementation could use some tuning. I don't think it's a good idea to use the fomo mechanics in this game for it. A permanently obtainable reward that's tied to an achievement would be a better idea, that way every player can decide for themselves when they feel ready to do it. And maybe add some incentive to at least perform reasonably well while not being impossible. When it comes to trials for example, "Complete your first trial without you dying". When it comes to battlegrounds, require the player to score a certain amount of points in a single bg (but update the scoring system first). Don't make it a simple participation prize.

karthrag_inak

There should never be 'level-up' based 'pursuits', they are inherently unfair. Instead, the 'experience-the-game-at-large' pursuit should be accomplish x-number of quests. That is fair.

Pelanora

fair cannot mean the 'same for everyone' in a game played by this many.

I'm quite happily levelling a toon and getting the rewards.

alpha_synuclein

karthrag_inak wrote: »

There should never be 'level-up' based 'pursuits', they are inherently unfair. Instead, the 'experience-the-game-at-large' pursuit should be accomplish x-number of quests. That is fair.

Gain X levels or CPs would be fine.

Taril

Pelanora wrote: »

fair cannot mean the 'same for everyone' in a game played by this many.

I mean... It can.

Just utilize things that everyone has equal opportunity to do.

Some people cannot "Level up" because of lacking character slots and being max level on all characters (Also, alternate work arounds also present issues. Like having CP work as well as level ups is hard for high CP players to achieve. While something like "Gain experience" is itself weighted against lower level players as experience gains scales from 1-50 - Which is something very annoying when it comes to current fixed exp requirements like skills, skill lines and companion levels)

There's plenty of things that are equally available to all players. So it doesn't make much sense to incorporate things that are not equally available to all players.

karthrag_inak

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

There should never be 'level-up' based 'pursuits', they are inherently unfair. Instead, the 'experience-the-game-at-large' pursuit should be accomplish x-number of quests. That is fair.

Gain X levels or CPs would be fine.

No, it would not. Khajiit is cp3600 on 20 characters, and there are many others. There should not be a penalty - a limitation or diminishing of choices - just because certain players -really- enjoy playing the game and have accomplished a great deal already.

Such thinking seems counter-productive.

alpha_synuclein

karthrag_inak wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

There should never be 'level-up' based 'pursuits', they are inherently unfair. Instead, the 'experience-the-game-at-large' pursuit should be accomplish x-number of quests. That is fair.

Gain X levels or CPs would be fine.

No, it would not. Khajiit is cp3600 on 20 characters, and there are many others. There should not be a penalty - a limitation or diminishing of choices - just because certain players -really- enjoy playing the game and have accomplished a great deal already.

Such thinking seems counter-productive.

Good point. I tend to play quite a lot, but I'm still far from max CP, so I assumed it would not be easy to get there passively. Guess I misjudged

Eliahnus

katanagirl1 wrote: »

This activity is bringing players back to populate areas and the group finder is listing trials even early in the morning. I was looking to do a quick naa but chose a vaa run that claimed to be quick and easy. Well…someone thought we were doing too good and started hard mode. It took a few wipes but I actually got a new best score while in that pug!

This is actually bringing life back into the game.

I ended up getting the Nord statue today and I have such a full inventory that I bought Autumn’s Gate just so I had somewhere to put it.

I completely agree.
I never did any trial before this Golden pursuit. Now I've done half of them in a couple of days.

AvalonRanger

BattleGround is unfair. Almost zero chance to match within 3 min.
How much time does it need for matching average?

Cooperharley