Golden pursuits - earn levels

DenverRalphy

Anybody who's played long enough to have all 20 character slots fully leveled, probably couldn't care less about having fewer options. As long as they can complete the capstone, they're likely to not cry foul because leveling yet another toon to 50 would probably be their least favorite activity out of the given choices.

[snip]

[Minor edit for Bait.]

kargen27

code65536 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

xXxCartlandxXx wrote: »

I'm in the same boat I'm 3600 cp 20 max level toons and 20 5 star ranks in campaign ranks I don't have any ability to level up so I just can't get the rewards seem unfair @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno

Do the other options then. There are more than needed to complete

Not the point.

The point being it penalises players for their loyalty and dedication by restricting their options.

But that's not true because there are plenty of other things that everyone can do to complete the endeavor.

Players with enough time in the game to max out all levels should be able to complete the endeavor easily.

It's good to keep them in mind for the future, but judging by the system in place, ZOS is already being careful to not gatekeep anyone by accident.

It is the point. All the options should be available to all players. Obviously some options (five according to the list above) are not available to all players. That is not fair as it restricts their choices. It isn't a matter of whether they can complete enough activities or not but that they are not given the same number of activities to chose from.

OK, so zos removes the leveling task from the pursuit. Now all options are available to all players and there are still extra pursuits.

What would change if they did just that?

All players would be treated the same.

Oh heavens forbid that ZOS throws new players a bone!

Have you ever considered that maybe the argument could be made in the other direction? Say you're a new player, playing your first character that hasn't even reached 50. Do you even know what a trial is? Do you have the gear or knowledge to play Battlegrounds? There are activities on this list that are going to be considerably easier for a veteran player than for a new player. Have you considered that possibility, hm?

The newer players have all options available to them. Players with all available slots fully leveled are locked from some of the options. They don't even get the option to try as they simply are not available. If a new player doesn't know what a trial is this endeavor is a great opportunity for them to find out. Plenty of guilds and players in general are willing to help new players through trials and dungeons for the first time.
A new player doesn't need to win a battleground. They only need to give it a go. They have that option. There are options on that list that will be easier for vet players. There are also options on that list that are not options at all for a lot of players. So new players might find an option to be difficult but for some players five options are impossible. Not the same thing.

Ishtarknows

What if 5 of the options had been for scribing or antiquities or ToT?

I honestly thought I would be able to do every option however unpalatable I thought they might be. It's always been the case in the past. Don't like PvP/trials/cards? There's always another option.

Now I'm being asked to consider deleting a fully levelled, skilled (including all guilds) and used character if I don't want to PvP. That's not on

sarahthes

Ishtarknows wrote: »

What if 5 of the options had been for scribing or antiquities or ToT?

I honestly thought I would be able to do every option however unpalatable I thought they might be. It's always been the case in the past. Don't like PvP/trials/cards? There's always another option.

Now I'm being asked to consider deleting a fully levelled, skilled (including all guilds) and used character if I don't want to PvP. That's not on

Only 3 of the items involve pvp, so you still don't need to pvp to complete all 20.

That being said, if you want all of the style pages you will still need to pvp at least once.

Myrnhiel

OK, let's see:

- I have several small characters below level 50. I COULD level them up, but do I want to just because ZOS says so? No, I want to level them at my space - so five tasks less
- I don't do trials - another two tasks less
- I don't do battlegrounds - another two tasks less
- I usually only repair in Cyrodiil, but normally don't kill players (unless I can really avoid it) - another task less

That already makes 10 tasks, I won't do. I have no idea what is hidden behind "incursion", so I don't know if I'll complete that. Killing 200 foes with class ablities will be difficult, because my main only fights with weapon abilities.

Well, the rest depends on my mood, I guess.

I think I'll have a very relaxed december.

sarahthes

Myrnhiel wrote: »

OK, let's see:

- I have several small characters below level 50. I COULD level them up, but do I want to just because ZOS says so? No, I want to level them at my space - so five tasks less
- I don't do trials - another two tasks less
- I don't do battlegrounds - another two tasks less
- I usually only repair in Cyrodiil, but normally don't kill players (unless I can really avoid it) - another task less

That already makes 10 tasks, I won't do. I have no idea what is hidden behind "incursion", so I don't know if I'll complete that. Killing 200 foes with class ablities will be difficult, because my main only fights with weapon abilities.

Well, the rest depends on my mood, I guess.

I think I'll have a very relaxed december.

Incursions are dolmens, harrowstorms, geysers, etc.

Juomuuri

I've got 20 lvl 50 characters and I was super bummed the leveling options take so many slots, since I can't do them (not gonna delete ANY of my characters). They should've added a failsafe in case someone has all slots filled with lvl 50 characters and give some other pursuits in their case. I would gladly take "complete 5 ToT matches" vs a pursuit I'm completely locked out of! I don't think it's fair to have some be stuff you cannot do without deleting a character... Bad planning imo.

Myrnhiel

sarahthes wrote: »

Incursions are dolmens, harrowstorms, geysers, etc.

Ah, I see. Thank you. So this depends on my mood as well...

rothan117

Good thing I do not like or use bear mounts. I hate pvp and will not step into it, been there and have no interest in getting back into it. Trials, I avoid these days due to slowing reactions (I am getting old) and not wanting to burden a group. And I have no interest in creating another alt to level then never use.

sarahthes

Juomuuri wrote: »

I've got 20 lvl 50 characters and I was super bummed the leveling options take so many slots, since I can't do them (not gonna delete ANY of my characters). They should've added a failsafe in case someone has all slots filled with lvl 50 characters and give some other pursuits in their case. I would gladly take "complete 5 ToT matches" vs a pursuit I'm completely locked out of! I don't think it's fair to have some be stuff you cannot do without deleting a character... Bad planning imo.

But they did - you only need to complete 20/24 tasks to get all rewards, and not having characters to level does not lock you out of any rewards - there are no unique rewards locked behind leveling.

Juomuuri

I wasn't talking about rewards, I was talking about *options*. I'm locked out of *options*, which is not fair. I can complete these just fine but imo locking people out of some of these is not ok. Everyone should be allowed to do any of the 29 pursuits they're offering. Which is now impossible for some of us.

Erickson9610

Juomuuri wrote: »

I wasn't talking about rewards, I was talking about *options*. I'm locked out of *options*, which is not fair. I can complete these just fine but imo locking people out of some of these is not ok. Everyone should be allowed to do any of the 29 pursuits they're offering. Which is now impossible for some of us.

That's kind of the whole point of having options — you're supposed to be allowed to be locked out of options, so long as you have other options.

It's the same way with Endeavors. If you don't have a DLC (and no way to acquire said DLC) then you're locked out of that option — but you can still complete the other options. That is what makes it fair.

Juomuuri

That's not what these were advertised as... Any player should be able to do any of the 29 options here. Endeavors are a different thing, as golden pursuits don't utilize the "locked behind DLC" thing...

Syldras

Give everyone a free extra character slot (call it a Christmas gift or whatever). Problem solved.

Tranquilizer

As always: Be careful what you wished for.

Players: I cant do the 45 level, all slots full, cp 3600
ZOS: Ok, we're listening, here you have 45 delve bosses in Cyrodiil instead.

Oh the irony

kargen27

Tranquilizer wrote: »

As always: Be careful what you wished for.

Players: I cant do the 45 level, all slots full, cp 3600
ZOS: Ok, we're listening, here you have 45 delve bosses in Cyrodiil instead.

Oh the irony

That would be much better because it is easily achievable. Getting 45 levels for some is impossible no matter the desire to do so.

Tranquilizer

kargen27 wrote: »

Tranquilizer wrote: »

As always: Be careful what you wished for.

Players: I cant do the 45 level, all slots full, cp 3600
ZOS: Ok, we're listening, here you have 45 delve bosses in Cyrodiil instead.

Oh the irony

That would be much better because it is easily achievable. Getting 45 levels for some is impossible no matter the desire to do so.

For vet players of course, but it's a huge letdown for newer players who aren't ready yet for trials or pvp.

spartaxoxo

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

xXxCartlandxXx wrote: »

I'm in the same boat I'm 3600 cp 20 max level toons and 20 5 star ranks in campaign ranks I don't have any ability to level up so I just can't get the rewards seem unfair @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno

Do the other options then. There are more than needed to complete

Not the point.

The point being it penalises players for their loyalty and dedication by restricting their options.

But that's not true because there are plenty of other things that everyone can do to complete the endeavor.

Players with enough time in the game to max out all levels should be able to complete the endeavor easily.

It's good to keep them in mind for the future, but judging by the system in place, ZOS is already being careful to not gatekeep anyone by accident.

Again, not the point.

It should never be a case that the longer you have engaged with the game the fewer your options are.

If anything it should be the opposite.

Otherwise they are saying the quiet part out loud: we only care about attracting new players or increasing the engagement level of those who play more casually.

If that were the case, they would literally never be able to do something that targeted new players in particular. That doesn't seem reasonable IMO.

As long as there are no exclusive rewards tied to leveling and there are enough options you never have to make a new toon, I don't see an issue with giving new players options since their ability to meaningfully participate in group content is limited.

I don't see any reason new players should be excluded from rewards. Level a character is obviously not intended to be completed by vet players that don't want to make a new toon for whatever reason.

spartaxoxo

Myrnhiel wrote: »

That already makes 10 tasks, I won't do. I have no idea what is hidden behind "incursion", so I don't know if I'll complete that. Killing 200 foes with class ablities will be difficult, because my main only fights with weapon abilities.

Incursions are world events like dolmens.

Its_MySniff

Some of you are making things harder than they should be. I completed 14 of 20 tasks today. I can do 4 more tomorrow. I'll have 2 left to get from new life. I don't do pvp often, but I did battle grounds in an hour or so. I ran my pve build and dealt with the slaughter. We have 32 days left to do this. Step out of your comfort zone, set your goals and you'll get the ugly mount too. Or don't. Cheers.

Tra_Lalan

None of the style pages are tied to earn level, so the design is okay.

The main theme for this month are alts, so I would treat those tasks with leveling up as something for players that don't have alts, or don't have all of them maxed out. It will give them another reason to create a new characters (the first reason is the skill style bundle that requires you to have one alt).
For me the current golden pursuit is very well designed (time, rewards, options, all very nicely tuned up).

Also I can't really imagine a 3600CP player or a player that has all his alts maxed out, that would struggle with completing 20 of the other tasks left on the list.

spartaxoxo

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

Also I can't really imagine a 3600CP player or a player that has all his alts maxed out, that would struggle with completing 20 of the other tasks left on the list.

I think there's a subsection of solo casual players that would prefer if they could get all rewards without ever having to enter content that hard requires a group.

I suspect that there'd be less complaints about the level task if trials and PvP weren't the alternatives. Like if there was another task to clear out some more delves or pick some extra flowers or whatever.

Personally, I'm glad there are more incentives being added to group content. Trials and PvP could really use the players and could certainly stand to feel more rewarding for the amount of extra work they take.

BasP

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I think there's a subsection of solo casual players that would prefer if they could get all rewards without ever having to enter content that hard requires a group.

I have to admit that I'm among them. Just now I completed vVH because it's called a Trial when you start it, just to see if that would count as completing an actual Trial. I didn't expect it to work (and of course it didn't), but I figured I'd give it a shot nonetheless...



Oh well, I guess I'll have to do some Battlegrounds for the first time in well over a year then. Who knows - maybe I'll even like the new update.

bkzland

The levelup options are aimed at lower level players, so they have an option they can clear fairly easily, whereas other options will be harderd for them to complete.

ZoS advertised the Golden Pursuit to feature a variety of tasks with different levels of difficulty. As long as options that are similarly prohibitive for groups of players don't get specific rewards associated, and the amount of options exceeds the required options, I think everybody complaining here is just entitled, or is lashing out for the sake of venting.

jad11mumbler

Also locked out of these 5 pursuits with 20 maxed characters.

I can see what ZoS are going for, but locking out a bunch of players like this isn't the way to go.

jad11mumbler

Tranquilizer wrote: »

As always: Be careful what you wished for.

Players: I cant do the 45 level, all slots full, cp 3600
ZOS: Ok, we're listening, here you have 45 delve bosses in Cyrodiil instead.

Oh the irony

I'll take it, that'll be very easy.

AFK at some random delve on and off for a bit.

kargen27

Its_MySniff wrote: »

Some of you are making things harder than they should be. I completed 14 of 20 tasks today. I can do 4 more tomorrow. I'll have 2 left to get from new life. I don't do pvp often, but I did battle grounds in an hour or so. I ran my pve build and dealt with the slaughter. We have 32 days left to do this. Step out of your comfort zone, set your goals and you'll get the ugly mount too. Or don't. Cheers.

I'm lucky that I already participate in most activities in game (don't like the card game) so will easily finish mostly just doing what I do anyway. How easy I or others can finish isn't what this is about. There are five things on this list some players are unable to accomplish even if they wanted to. That doesn't seem right that they should have less choices. I'm hoping being vocal about this now will give ZoS cause to think before doing something similar going forward. I don't want to see raise undaunted guild three skill levels in some future endeavor.

Ezhh

If the goal is to encourage us to level alts, being given another character slot would be a great incentive for this.

As it stands all my slots are full and I can't level the characters I have further. I don't want to delete them either given the time/work/effort that went into getting them exactly as I want them.

Even assuming someone has characters slots left to purchase, we shouldn't need to spend crowns to engage in this. Add a 21st character slot and make it free to claim for anyone who logs in during this event and then you stop punishing those who already heavily invested in their accounts.

spartaxoxo

kargen27 wrote: »

Its_MySniff wrote: »

Some of you are making things harder than they should be. I completed 14 of 20 tasks today. I can do 4 more tomorrow. I'll have 2 left to get from new life. I don't do pvp often, but I did battle grounds in an hour or so. I ran my pve build and dealt with the slaughter. We have 32 days left to do this. Step out of your comfort zone, set your goals and you'll get the ugly mount too. Or don't. Cheers.

I'm lucky that I already participate in most activities in game (don't like the card game) so will easily finish mostly just doing what I do anyway. How easy I or others can finish isn't what this is about. There are five things on this list some players are unable to accomplish even if they wanted to. That doesn't seem right that they should have less choices. I'm hoping being vocal about this now will give ZoS cause to think before doing something similar going forward. I don't want to see raise undaunted guild three skill levels in some future endeavor.

It is about how easily things are accomplished though.

Handicap parking gives people who aren't handicapped less choices in where to park, but that lesser choice doesn't negatively impact such people in a meaningful way. And having an option that is meant exclusively for the handicap increases the accessibility of the building.

While being a new player is not an RL accessibility issue of the physical sort, so obviously isn't remotely in the same ballpark in terms of level of importance, we cannot just ignore ease of access when discussing choices offered.

A player at max CP and with 20 max level characters is generally going to have easy access to group content.

Many players under a certain level do not. They get kicked from trials. They aren't even able to pick up all the rewards until you hit a certain level iirc. Their ability to participate in PvP meaningfully against maxed out players is also limited. This is why they get their own cyro campaign that above level 50s can't re-enter. A level 10 can't queue all the dungeons.

They do not have ease of access to rewards. Allowing their leveling to count dramatically increases their accessibility to the rewards. Something vet players don't need help with because nobody is kicking you from a normal trial for being 3600 CP.

wolfie1.0.

ApoAlaia wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

xXxCartlandxXx wrote: »

I'm in the same boat I'm 3600 cp 20 max level toons and 20 5 star ranks in campaign ranks I don't have any ability to level up so I just can't get the rewards seem unfair @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno

Do the other options then. There are more than needed to complete

Not the point.

The point being it penalises players for their loyalty and dedication by restricting their options.

But that's not true because there are plenty of other things that everyone can do to complete the endeavor.

Players with enough time in the game to max out all levels should be able to complete the endeavor easily.

It's good to keep them in mind for the future, but judging by the system in place, ZOS is already being careful to not gatekeep anyone by accident.

It is the point. All the options should be available to all players. Obviously some options (five according to the list above) are not available to all players. That is not fair as it restricts their choices. It isn't a matter of whether they can complete enough activities or not but that they are not given the same number of activities to chose from.

OK, so zos removes the leveling task from the pursuit. Now all options are available to all players and there are still extra pursuits.

What would change if they did just that?

All players would be treated the same.

Oh heavens forbid that ZOS throws new players a bone!

Have you ever considered that maybe the argument could be made in the other direction? Say you're a new player, playing your first character that hasn't even reached 50. Do you even know what a trial is? Do you have the gear or knowledge to play Battlegrounds? There are activities on this list that are going to be considerably easier for a veteran player than for a new player. Have you considered that possibility, hm?

Both things needn't be mutually exclusive. We could all have the chance of a serving of bone, it needn't be restricted to some.

Unless you see everything as a zero sum game that is.

Either way having voiced my frustration is time to move on. I see where you are coming from, I just don't agree with the perspective.

To be fair though, zos tossed in something for everyone in this pursuit. Pvp, solo pve, challenge pve, casual pve, and crafting/housing.

There's a little bit for everyone here. Ya you may have to do a few things your uncomfortable with, but you have more than a month to arrange and find people to do them with.

There's even time to arrange a weapons only Nordic bathrobe faction vs faction brawl in pvp for the kill requirement