Banner Bearer Player entering ring noise makes it unplayable

AtriaKhorist

Kyip wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we wanted to let you know that we've seen the feedback you've shared here and in other threads about the Banner Bearer audio, and we are exploring options. Thank you!

Hi. Sorry to ping you, but this blew me away, reading that you will explore options for this.

Because here, in the Nightblade's Grim Focus Permaglow thread...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/641376/grim-focus-permaglow

The official response to that unplayable ability was that it was working as intended.

I'm glad the banner will be adjusted for everyone... but personally I solved the banner noise issue by turning Effects down to zero in the audio settings. There is a workaround for the banners, whereas there is no workaround for the Grim Focus issue.

I'm sorry if this seems confrontational or hostile, that is not my intent. I just know a lot of us would appreciate the same attention for an issue we have been unhappy with for over a year now. Please, please, please give us the same help.

All of this.

Grim Focus remains unchanged for well over a year while the Banner immediately gets addressed. And don't tell us it's working as intended - the corresponding thread has dozens of pages repeatedly outlining how it's not.

What gives?

Malprave

Plenty have voiced their opinions on this skill but I will add mine nonetheless. The sound is a complete deal breaker. Just turn it off entirely. Totally unnecessary.

The visual? Another potential deal breaker. That needs to be turned way down. This will just get players killed because they can’t see what’s going on.

Hotdog_23

Please God fix this terrible sound it is so LOUD. Took it off my bar after the first dungeon. Will not use it again until something is fixed.

Stay safe 🙂

AmishDefector

Nobody ive talked to so far is a fan of the noise. Awesome to see zos looking into it. I rely heavily on sounds to ensure my casts are firing and light attacks are connecting because im watching the fight not my skill bars. And several mechanics have an audio cue.
While exploring audio, if the banner could be shrunk a bit so it is below the reticle when in 3rd person max zoom out Or give the option to hide banner for self that would be great.

sshogrin

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we wanted to let you know that we've seen the feedback you've shared here and in other threads about the Banner Bearer audio, and we are exploring options. Thank you!

A better idea would be to not have the sound...maybe when activate the ability only, but not have it happen after that. Personally I could do without the banner sound completely. It's not needed.

kyle.wilson

Did they group test the banner? The continuous proc in trials is grating

Kyip

When we quote a post from a community manager like ZOS_Jessica, does it alert them? Or do we need to ping them somehow?

Kyip

I do not want to be a nuisance, but I would like to know if they are actually seeing replies meant for them to see.

cptscotty

Its not just the audio...its also when so many people have it that you cant see anything as it covers the screen and important mechanics.

This problem happens with a lot of other effects as well but this one is definitely making it worst as it overlays the top of other textures.

Jaraal

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Did they group test the banner? The continuous proc in trials is grating

People were complaining about the annoyingly loud sound from the jump on the PTS. Clearly, the feedback was ignored.

Kyip

Kyip wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we wanted to let you know that we've seen the feedback you've shared here and in other threads about the Banner Bearer audio, and we are exploring options. Thank you!

Hi. Sorry to ping you, but this blew me away, reading that you will explore options for this.

Because here, in the Nightblade's Grim Focus Permaglow thread...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/641376/grim-focus-permaglow

The official response to that unplayable ability was that it was working as intended.

I'm glad the banner will be adjusted for everyone... but personally I solved the banner noise issue by turning Effects down to zero in the audio settings. There is a workaround for the banners, whereas there is no workaround for the Grim Focus issue.

I'm sorry if this seems confrontational or hostile, that is not my intent. I just know a lot of us would appreciate the same attention for an issue we have been unhappy with for over a year now. Please, please, please give us the same help.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Sorry to ping you, I'm not sure if quoting you gave a ping or not. Please see my post and the subsequent many, many comments. Plus the 44 entire tabs of discontent on the forum post for this topic. Can we please, please get some help restoring Grim Focus to the way it was visually for the first 10+ years of the game, before the change with Necrom broke it, making it permaglow. The volume of comments show how big an issue this is for the community. If changes will be made to the banners, which can currently be resolved by disabling Effects under Audio, can we please get help for an issue we are unable to fix, the Grim Focus permaglow?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Kyip wrote: »

Sorry to ping you, I'm not sure if quoting you gave a ping or not. Please see my post and the subsequent many, many comments. Plus the 44 entire tabs of discontent on the forum post for this topic. Can we please, please get some help restoring Grim Focus to the way it was visually for the first 10+ years of the game, before the change with Necrom broke it, making it permaglow. The volume of comments show how big an issue this is for the community. If changes will be made to the banners, which can currently be resolved by disabling Effects under Audio, can we please get help for an issue we are unable to fix, the Grim Focus permaglow?

Hey @Kyip! Just wanted let you know we see this question, and we're very aware of the thread. When the feedback about the Grim Focus change first surfaced, we did raise it with the dev team. In the thread, Kevin did pass along the info that we got from the dev team, that this change was intended and not a bug. That said, we've raised it again to see what's possible. Reading back through our responses in the original thread, there may also be an opportunity to elaborate on why we made the change - we're checking with dev on that. (As an aside, many of us are about to be out for Thanksgiving holiday break, so any additional info we can share will likely be the week of Dec. 2.)

Pelanora

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Kyip wrote: »

Sorry to ping you, I'm not sure if quoting you gave a ping or not. Please see my post and the subsequent many, many comments. Plus the 44 entire tabs of discontent on the forum post for this topic. Can we please, please get some help restoring Grim Focus to the way it was visually for the first 10+ years of the game, before the change with Necrom broke it, making it permaglow. The volume of comments show how big an issue this is for the community. If changes will be made to the banners, which can currently be resolved by disabling Effects under Audio, can we please get help for an issue we are unable to fix, the Grim Focus permaglow?

Hey @Kyip! Just wanted let you know we see this question, and we're very aware of the thread. When the feedback about the Grim Focus change first surfaced, we did raise it with the dev team. In the thread, Kevin did pass along the info that we got from the dev team, that this change was intended and not a bug. That said, we've raised it again to see what's possible. Reading back through our responses in the original thread, there may also be an opportunity to elaborate on why we made the change - we're checking with dev on that. (As an aside, many of us are about to be out for Thanksgiving holiday break, so any additional info we can share will likely be the week of Dec. 2.)

im not sure its just WHY make the change- its why NOT change it back, when everyone seems to hate it so. Also, you know, jabs....

and um twilight aka flappy .....just sayin'

daveywavey

Kyip wrote: »

Kyip wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we wanted to let you know that we've seen the feedback you've shared here and in other threads about the Banner Bearer audio, and we are exploring options. Thank you!

Hi. Sorry to ping you, but this blew me away, reading that you will explore options for this.

Because here, in the Nightblade's Grim Focus Permaglow thread...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/641376/grim-focus-permaglow

The official response to that unplayable ability was that it was working as intended.

I'm glad the banner will be adjusted for everyone... but personally I solved the banner noise issue by turning Effects down to zero in the audio settings. There is a workaround for the banners, whereas there is no workaround for the Grim Focus issue.

I'm sorry if this seems confrontational or hostile, that is not my intent. I just know a lot of us would appreciate the same attention for an issue we have been unhappy with for over a year now. Please, please, please give us the same help.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Sorry to ping you, I'm not sure if quoting you gave a ping or not. Please see my post and the subsequent many, many comments. Plus the 44 entire tabs of discontent on the forum post for this topic. Can we please, please get some help restoring Grim Focus to the way it was visually for the first 10+ years of the game, before the change with Necrom broke it, making it permaglow. The volume of comments show how big an issue this is for the community. If changes will be made to the banners, which can currently be resolved by disabling Effects under Audio, can we please get help for an issue we are unable to fix, the Grim Focus permaglow?

Have you used Banner Bearer in a trial? It's rather more unplayable than a simple glowy effect. And turning Effects down turns ALL Effects down. That's not a workaround.

acastanza_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Kyip wrote: »

Sorry to ping you, I'm not sure if quoting you gave a ping or not. Please see my post and the subsequent many, many comments. Plus the 44 entire tabs of discontent on the forum post for this topic. Can we please, please get some help restoring Grim Focus to the way it was visually for the first 10+ years of the game, before the change with Necrom broke it, making it permaglow. The volume of comments show how big an issue this is for the community. If changes will be made to the banners, which can currently be resolved by disabling Effects under Audio, can we please get help for an issue we are unable to fix, the Grim Focus permaglow?

Hey @Kyip! Just wanted let you know we see this question, and we're very aware of the thread. When the feedback about the Grim Focus change first surfaced, we did raise it with the dev team. In the thread, Kevin did pass along the info that we got from the dev team, that this change was intended and not a bug. That said, we've raised it again to see what's possible. Reading back through our responses in the original thread, there may also be an opportunity to elaborate on why we made the change - we're checking with dev on that. (As an aside, many of us are about to be out for Thanksgiving holiday break, so any additional info we can share will likely be the week of Dec. 2.)

Jess,

This is the kind of thing we're talking about when we say "ZOS isn't listening to feedback".
To a large degree, "why" the change was made doesn't matter, we know it was intended, we don't care. The fact is the playerbase doesn't like it and that means that the dev team needs to at least think about reconsidering their reasoning, not just explaining it. That reconsideration never seems to happen. It's always "our way or the highway".
We've given reasonable suggestions for middle ground - like not showing the glow when the ability has no stacks - and it has been flatly ignored. It's that sort of thing that is fomenting the current high level of hostility that the dev team is experiencing.
The banner bearer audio is the same situation - we know the audio cues are intended, we do not like them in their current state, we don't need an explanation for why the audio cue is like it is, we need it changed.
You can say "you're listening to feedback" and "you're bringing these comments to the dev team" all you want, and I'm sure you are. But the fact of the matter is that once the dev team gets those comments/feedback, we firmly believe, and the state of the game shows, that those comments get universally filed in the dumpster behind the studio. There is zero responsivity to the feedback from them in the game itself and that lack of responsivity has pushed the community - and the game itself - to a breaking point..

dk_dunkirk

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Kyip wrote: »

Sorry to ping you, I'm not sure if quoting you gave a ping or not. Please see my post and the subsequent many, many comments. Plus the 44 entire tabs of discontent on the forum post for this topic. Can we please, please get some help restoring Grim Focus to the way it was visually for the first 10+ years of the game, before the change with Necrom broke it, making it permaglow. The volume of comments show how big an issue this is for the community. If changes will be made to the banners, which can currently be resolved by disabling Effects under Audio, can we please get help for an issue we are unable to fix, the Grim Focus permaglow?

Hey @Kyip! Just wanted let you know we see this question, and we're very aware of the thread. When the feedback about the Grim Focus change first surfaced, we did raise it with the dev team. In the thread, Kevin did pass along the info that we got from the dev team, that this change was intended and not a bug. That said, we've raised it again to see what's possible. Reading back through our responses in the original thread, there may also be an opportunity to elaborate on why we made the change - we're checking with dev on that. (As an aside, many of us are about to be out for Thanksgiving holiday break, so any additional info we can share will likely be the week of Dec. 2.)

These kinds of responses make it seem like the forums are way to voice feedback on the game, and get things fixed. The lack of changes to what are glaringly, patently-obvious problems make it seem like the forums are a honeypot to mire peoples' negative reactions in hopes of action, and keep them playing until people cool off about whatever issue is bothering them. I'm watching endless threads about things like the stuck-in-combat bug, cyro population issues, pvp/pve set balance problems, class imbalance, permaglow, network problems, abysmal drop rates and locations, untoggleable FPS restrictions in menus on console, housing limitations, this vaunted-yet-unplayable skill, amongst others, all while we get an endless march of "new" content that is a copy-shift-paste of previous releases, and ever-flashier Crown store monetization! Nothing personal to anyone here, but what else am I supposed to take away from these forums?

IIBonesII

[/quote]

These kinds of responses make it seem like the forums are way to voice feedback on the game, and get things fixed.[/quote]

Its the reason I joined the forum.

dk_dunkirk

IIBonesII wrote: »

These kinds of responses make it seem like the forums are way to voice feedback on the game, and get things fixed.[/quote]

Its the reason I joined the forum.


[/quote]

Do you feel that the issues you have raised have been addressed? If so, what were they?

MindOfTheSwarm

Yes, it’s obnoxious on the ears. Please remove that sound.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Hey all, as a follow up to this, we are still investigating adjustments to reduce the impact of the sound effects of the ability in these cases. As we've delved into the investigation and what is possible, it's become apparent that this will take some time to adjust, test, and implement. Realistically, the work around improving this is going to be included in Update 45 (next year) at the earliest.

thejadefalcon

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, as a follow up to this, we are still investigating adjustments to reduce the impact of the sound effects of the ability in these cases. As we've delved into the investigation and what is possible, it's become apparent that this will take some time to adjust, test, and implement. Realistically, the work around improving this is going to be included in Update 45 (next year) at the earliest.

Why not just turn it off? At least until your testing can be done? Also, how on earth did something so obnoxious not get caught internally before it ever showed up in player's hands?

ApoAlaia

thejadefalcon wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, as a follow up to this, we are still investigating adjustments to reduce the impact of the sound effects of the ability in these cases. As we've delved into the investigation and what is possible, it's become apparent that this will take some time to adjust, test, and implement. Realistically, the work around improving this is going to be included in Update 45 (next year) at the earliest.

Why not just turn it off? At least until your testing can be done? Also, how on earth did something so obnoxious not get caught internally before it ever showed up in player's hands?

That was my thought as well.

Arguably I don't know how the ESO engine works, but if this was the creation engine and this was my mod I'd just pull the sound file, substitute it with an 'empty' sound file (leaving everything else untouched because omg a small change that you thing is going to be fine can end up blowing up in your face) and then figure out what on earth is going on while players are not having this inflicted upon them.

There is an addon that can somewhat alleviate the issue, alas it doesn't work with the firey banner because that one is extra borked. It doesn't 'obey' any sound sliders other than the master volume so it has to cut off all sound every time the noise of this skill would play, which is... well, not for me. Maybe other players can tolerate it, but I can't.

So unless they change their minds is no banner for me until U45 the earliest. Yey?

The way these things tend to go (and the main reason why many of us dread patches rather being excited) chances are it will be brutally nerfed in U45 anyway and it will be fixed by default because no one will run it anymore.

YandereGirlfriend

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, as a follow up to this, we are still investigating adjustments to reduce the impact of the sound effects of the ability in these cases. As we've delved into the investigation and what is possible, it's become apparent that this will take some time to adjust, test, and implement. Realistically, the work around improving this is going to be included in Update 45 (next year) at the earliest.

This is awesome to hear (hehe)!

I think that I would be in the "Why not simply turn it off?" camp as well. Most of the time with sound design and skills you have audio cues for certain gameplay prompts. Think like when you hear the Meteor ult "whoosh" or the Incap "schiiiing" sound - an attentive player is cued to Block or otherwise take defensive measures.

For Banner Bearer... I'm just not sure what the gameplay shorthand that they're trying to convey is? It isn't really useful or actionable information for either the person running Banner or a player entering the Banner, to have that sound prompt. And it is super redundant with the visual cue that already exists in the form of the giant AOE animation.

TLDR; My suggestion would be to remove the sound entirely and keep the animation. That should give nearly every player the information that they need (e.g. am I in or out of a Banner AOE) without overloading their senses.

Vulkunne

Any way to also turn off the visual effects? Like others said, I really don't need to know if someone is in the radius or not. I mainly run 4 man anyways and the banner is just extra. Both audio and visual effects are very distracting. Here was my discussion on the matter as well.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/669626/accessibility-options-for-visual-effects#latest

runa_gate

Try riding around Cyrodiil with a Banner active and you will hear it replay over and over, seemingly with no provocation

code65536

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, as a follow up to this, we are still investigating adjustments to reduce the impact of the sound effects of the ability in these cases. As we've delved into the investigation and what is possible, it's become apparent that this will take some time to adjust, test, and implement. Realistically, the work around improving this is going to be included in Update 45 (next year) at the earliest.

Why even have this sound effect? Having a buff applied silently is not without precedence. And if you must have a sound effect, it should only be for the person entering or leaving, not for the banner bearer.

When you alert players to something, you need to ask the question, "is this information actionable?" What do you expect players to do with this information? I can't think of any scenario in which the banner bearer would find the information of people entering and leaving the area to be usefully actionable. In which case, shoving this information into their faces (or ears, rather) is just useless noise. For someone who's benefiting from the banner, I suppose a slightly stronger case could be made for the usefulness of this information.

CP5

code65536 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, as a follow up to this, we are still investigating adjustments to reduce the impact of the sound effects of the ability in these cases. As we've delved into the investigation and what is possible, it's become apparent that this will take some time to adjust, test, and implement. Realistically, the work around improving this is going to be included in Update 45 (next year) at the earliest.

Why even have this sound effect? Having a buff applied silently is not without precedence. And if you must have a sound effect, it should only be for the person entering or leaving, not for the banner bearer.

When you alert players to something, you need to ask the question, "is this information actionable?" What do you expect players to do with this information? I can't think of any scenario in which the banner bearer would find the information of people entering and leaving the area to be usefully actionable. In which case, shoving this information into their faces (or ears, rather) is just useless noise. For someone who's benefiting from the banner, I suppose a slightly stronger case could be made for the usefulness of this information.

My friends and I messed around with banners shortly after they went live, though I'm normally the only one running it, and if two banners with different main scripts are active, and you jump into both banners aoe's, you get the color burst along with the sound that shows you which banner you got the buff from. Odds are they could change the audio linked to that vfx and address this, so a fix should be easy, but the need to triple down on this feedback with a sound, and an area sound is excessive for sure.

Jaraal

thejadefalcon wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, as a follow up to this, we are still investigating adjustments to reduce the impact of the sound effects of the ability in these cases. As we've delved into the investigation and what is possible, it's become apparent that this will take some time to adjust, test, and implement. Realistically, the work around improving this is going to be included in Update 45 (next year) at the earliest.

Why not just turn it off? At least until your testing can be done? Also, how on earth did something so obnoxious not get caught internally before it ever showed up in player's hands?

It was brought up in the first week of the PTS, in a thread started by ZOS asking for feedback on it. Regardless of any possible in-house testing, the concerns have been documented well before the skills ever made it to Live.

They also had months to fine tune the crux visuals, as well as weeks of player feedback about it. But those concerns were also ignored, and the original effect made it to the live servers... where players complained about it until it was quickly fixed. However, the difference between crux and banner bearer effects is that players complained of illness related to the visuals. The new scribes have been mostly described as an annoyance, rather than something that has an actual effect.

NeoniKa

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

When a player runs into the inner circle of the Banner Bearer's AoE ring, it makes the same noise as when you first activate it. I ran this on a trial this evening and had to take it off. The noise is constant with 12 people and extremely annoying. Shame, I was enjoying it.

I've been solving it by leaving the group when there's a player with the Banner Bearer, or if I'm playing with a ranged character I'll try to remain very far and never enter the ring.

thejadefalcon

Jaraal wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, as a follow up to this, we are still investigating adjustments to reduce the impact of the sound effects of the ability in these cases. As we've delved into the investigation and what is possible, it's become apparent that this will take some time to adjust, test, and implement. Realistically, the work around improving this is going to be included in Update 45 (next year) at the earliest.

Why not just turn it off? At least until your testing can be done? Also, how on earth did something so obnoxious not get caught internally before it ever showed up in player's hands?

It was brought up in the first week of the PTS, in a thread started by ZOS asking for feedback on it. Regardless of any possible in-house testing, the concerns have been documented well before the skills ever made it to Live.

They also had months to fine tune the crux visuals, as well as weeks of player feedback about it. But those concerns were also ignored, and the original effect made it to the live servers... where players complained about it until it was quickly fixed. However, the difference between crux and banner bearer effects is that players complained of illness related to the visuals. The new scribes have been mostly described as an annoyance, rather than something that has an actual effect.

That's exactly my problem. For all ZOS can say they listen to the feedback through the "many channels" they have since they got rid of the volunteer Combat Team experts, they've repeatedly demonstrated a complete disregard for any kind of feedback. It's frustrating when it's just an annoyance like it is here, it's downright dangerous when it's a health issue like the Arcanist spawned, even though people were saying exactly that since the announcement video. I know a number of people that have had to cut their play time drastically, if not completely quit the game, because they literally cannot avoid Arcanists, wherever they go.

This could be hotfixed. Like so many other issues (block bug #7, anyone?), it feels like ZOS have nothing to offer but platitudes.