Is this game moving more and more into becoming soloable?

SkaiFaith

SilverBride wrote: »

"SkaiFaith wrote: »

I don't see why the difficulty of this boss should be the same for me and for a level 10 player

Because One Tamriel scales low level players to CP160 so they can quest any zone in any order along with their friends.

"SkaiFaith wrote: »

if nothing ever kills you, where is the feeling of achievement?

Being beat down and struggling doesn't give me a feeling of achievement. I get satisfaction from being able to defeat these enemies.

Wait, I see the first phrase you quoted from me got misinterpreted and I get why, I did not express myself right probably: I meant that the difficulty should be scaled down for a level 10 player and up for a CP 2.000+ so that we don't fight at the same difficulty level - no reason a level 10 player should be forced to face the same extreme difficulty a CP 2.000+ player is searching for to have fun.

Hope now you get what I wanted to say @SilverBride

I_killed_Vivec

It ain't solo if you have a companion.

SkaiFaith

Varana wrote: »

I'm not sure why world bosses and incursions should be solo-able esp. for newer players. They're literally intended to be group content. As in designed to be dealt with in a group.

I would agree if every zone would be highly populated all of the time, but since I am online at non-peak hours on XBOX EU server... I need to be able to solo, because there is no one around, especially in older zones. There are people with similar problems, maybe from Australia, so I don't think it's too much to wish for a balance where players can solo events. IMHO it should however require effort, and not like "I go in completely randomly and achieve everything".

SkaiFaith

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

It ain't solo if you have a companion.

I have my companions out 100% of the time cause I feel lonely. In the hardest fights like, let's say, Tragan the wandering minotaur they die after 10 seconds. Stop this nonsense of "if you have a companion out is not solo" - it is.

zaria

joergino wrote: »

Judging by recent chapters and their world bosses this doesn't seem to be the case.

World bosses is not supposed to be easy soloable, Now days the baseline zone ones is on an semi decent build.

And group challenges in public dungeons is much harder in newer dlc dungeons.
All the else overland content is soloable and supposed to be.
On the other hand I think more quests can be done in groups even if you don't have the quest, helped some low level and new guild mate in an Sumerset instanced quest.

FriedEggSandwich

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

It ain't solo if you have a companion.

If I'm doing a west weald wb with another player and I die, the boss doesn't get reset, unless the other player dies too. If I'm doing the same boss with just sharp, and I die, the boss gets reset. So that's one major difference.

SilverBride

SkaiFaith wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

"SkaiFaith wrote: »

I don't see why the difficulty of this boss should be the same for me and for a level 10 player

Because One Tamriel scales low level players to CP160 so they can quest any zone in any order along with their friends.

"SkaiFaith wrote: »

if nothing ever kills you, where is the feeling of achievement?

Being beat down and struggling doesn't give me a feeling of achievement. I get satisfaction from being able to defeat these enemies.

Wait, I see the first phrase you quoted from me got misinterpreted and I get why, I did not express myself right probably: I meant that the difficulty should be scaled down for a level 10 player and up for a CP 2.000+ so that we don't fight at the same difficulty level - no reason a level 10 player should be forced to face the same extreme difficulty a CP 2.000+ player is searching for to have fun.

Hope now you get what I wanted to say @SilverBride

I did misunderstand. Thank you for clarifying!

SilverBride

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

It ain't solo if you have a companion.

If I'm doing a west weald wb with another player and I die, the boss doesn't get reset, unless the other player dies too. If I'm doing the same boss with just sharp, and I die, the boss gets reset. So that's one major difference.

There is some discrepancy with how the Companion is perceived in different situations. In the situation above the Companion seems to be treated as just a perk. But then the Infinite Archive counts a Companion the same as another player as far as the leaderboard is concerned. Some consistency would be nice.

AzuraFan

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Companions are surprisingly good if you know how to build them. I've had multiple Companion builds solo world bosses while I remained in stealth. If the Companions can clear world bosses by themselves, then as long as they don't waste their heals on the player, they should enable the player to defeat world bosses that they perhaps couldn't before.

I guess the builds I've found online for them aren't great, then. But I don't remain in stealth, so the companions do use heals on me. I'm not interested in soloing if it means I don't participate at all.

I find it hard to believe that companions can solo WBs with lots of AoE and other effects. They go down fast with those. I can see them soloing some of the easier WBs in the base game.

Desiato

SilverBride wrote: »

Being beat down and struggling doesn't give me a feeling of achievement. I get satisfaction from being able to defeat these enemies.

How is there any feeling of achievement without any kind of challenge that requires problem solving to overcome?

When I say problem solving, I'm not talking about sherlock holmes level, but even just recognizing a heavy attack and blocking or dodging it. Or making an adjustment to a build.

When I came back to ESO from a long break, I found some of the DLC wbs challenging to solo at first, and it was fun to learn how to defeat them, providing me with a sense of achievement.

What satisfaction is derived from defeating an opponent one cannot lose to?

JemadarofCaerSalis

Desiato wrote: »

What satisfaction is derived from defeating an opponent one cannot lose to?

Different people have different ways of finding satisfaction.

Some people like puzzle solving and like bosses with mechanics that need to be figured out.

others like the satisfaction of knowing they can die but still are able to beat bosses

Some like the satifaction of finding that one piece of loot they have been farming for

Some people like games where they have to replay the same 10 minutes over and over with, learning about the mechanics and the quirks of the boss and finally being able to beat it.

Others don't.

SilverBride

Desiato wrote: »

How is there any feeling of achievement without any kind of challenge that requires problem solving to overcome?

There is problem solving figuring out the mechanics etc.. But it shouldn't take being completely golded out in the latest meta and very proficient at weaving to defeat a World Boss, and especially not a zone Story Boss. That shouldn't take multiple failures to figure out.

Desiato wrote: »

What satisfaction is derived from defeating an opponent one cannot lose to?

The satisfaction of feeling as strong as I worked hard to become.

Erickson9610

AzuraFan wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Companions are surprisingly good if you know how to build them. I've had multiple Companion builds solo world bosses while I remained in stealth. If the Companions can clear world bosses by themselves, then as long as they don't waste their heals on the player, they should enable the player to defeat world bosses that they perhaps couldn't before.

I guess the builds I've found online for them aren't great, then. But I don't remain in stealth, so the companions do use heals on me. I'm not interested in soloing if it means I don't participate at all.

I find it hard to believe that companions can solo WBs with lots of AoE and other effects. They go down fast with those. I can see them soloing some of the easier WBs in the base game.

That's the thing — if you're helping the Companions, they can help keep you alive, help taunt the enemy, or help you deal damage. A good Companion build should allow the Companion to stay alive for a long time, so even if you're in an encounter where you're dealing with other enemies, they won't fall dead on the floor without your aid.

If you and your Companion are built to stay alive (with at least a self heal on each of you) then you're more likely to be able to clear content together.

SeaGtGruff

SilverBride wrote: »

"SkaiFaith wrote: »

if nothing ever kills you, where is the feeling of achievement?

Being beat down and struggling doesn't give me a feeling of achievement. I get satisfaction from being able to defeat these enemies.

Getting killed by a boss and realizing I'm not ready for it yet is something I'm okay with.

Going back and trying again at a later date, and getting further along before being killed, lets me know I'm starting to pick up on the mechanics and how to deal with them.

Going back again at a still later date and finally beating the boss solo gives me great satisfaction-- although I also get very frustrated if I repeatedly wipe on a boss that I've successfully soloed before.

When I was finally able to solo all of the WBs in Vvardenfell and Northern Elsweyr, I had a lot of fun riding around those zones and soloing the bosses one after the other.

I felt much the same way years ago when I could finally solo a dolmen-- I started soloing dolmens a lot, and went from zone to zone (including Cyrodiil) until I had cleared every dolmen in the game.

But I'm definitely not there yet with the WBs and incursion events in the newer chapters and DLCs-- and as hard as they hit, and as difficult as some of their mechanics seem to be, I don't know if I ever will be. Part of me is quite happy to stay away from that content forever, but another part of me would enjoy being able to clear that content.

Erickson9610

AzuraFan wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that companions can solo WBs with lots of AoE and other effects. They go down fast with those. I can see them soloing some of the easier WBs in the base game.

I always benchmark my Companion builds against the Telesubi Ruins world boss in southern Bangkorai. Those two lich enemies have lots of AoE and stun effects, so they're perfect candidates.

I've managed to get Isobel Veloise in a tank build to take them down individually using multiple damage shield skills in light armor, and I've managed to get Sharp-as-Night to take them both down in a heavy armor healer build. Zerith-var was very close to taking them down, so I'm still going to tweak his build until he succeeds.

Note: Isobel Veloise shouldn't ever have her Ultimate slotted for that benchmark, because the long channel time will kill her. Because she only deals damage with her taunt skill in that build, the first lich always has 5 minutes to respawn before she takes down the second lich.

I always use Quickened and Telvanni Efficiency, but I don't expect to need Telvanni Efficiency when I'm actively helping them in actual content.

Desiato

SilverBride wrote: »

There is problem solving figuring out the mechanics etc.. But it shouldn't take being completely golded out in the latest meta and very proficient at weaving to defeat a World Boss, and especially not a zone Story Boss. That shouldn't take multiple failures to figure out.

It absolutely does not. When I returned to ESO after being away from years, I learned how to solo the dlc world bosses with purple crafted gear. Though I had tens of millions of gold and other resources, I wanted to relearn the game organically as a new player would.

What's wrong with multiple failures?! Why is it even so bad to aspire to do something and fail in a game? The competitor in me hates to walk away from a challenge, but at the end of the day it's just a game, so I can rest easy if it beats me.

SilverBride wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

What satisfaction is derived from defeating an opponent one cannot lose to?

The satisfaction of feeling as strong as I worked hard to become.

You feel strong after defeating a weak opponent?

Humans are literally made stronger by challenges. It is part of our design as animals. Resistance makes us stronger and being spoon fed makes us weaker. If one does not use it, they lose it. So I would say an encounter that forces me to adapt over multiple deaths or even hours/days, objectively makes me stronger and that defeating a weak opponent that requires no effort makes me weaker.

Iriidius

Quite the opposite, dolmens, most basegame dungeons and basegame worldbosses are soloable while most dlc dungeons, world events and worldbosses are totally not soloable even with companions nor duoable/trioable and with each new dlc/chapter the percentage of soloable content gets smaller.
It is usually easier to solo basegame dungeons than to run dlc dungeons with intended maximum group size of 4.
Dolmen bosses have 300k hp and negligible dmg while dragons have 18m hp with immunity phases and oneshot attacks. Incineration point is avoidable if you know how it works but had to google it to find out what causes it and how it works.

5 years ago Cyrodiil was full of 1vXers, now most of them quittet the game or play in zerg/smallscale/ ballgroup and solo players in Cyrodiil are free kill even if they just run from keep to keep or back to group.
However I see an increasing number of people fearing a solo apocalypse or asking for enforcing holy trinity in all content which would kill soloplay.

AzuraFan

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If you and your Companion are built to stay alive (with at least a self heal on each of you) then you're more likely to be able to clear content together.

Both me and whatever companion I'm using always have a self heal. I don't have a problem clearing content with them, but there's no way playing with a companion is on the same level as playing with another competent player. They don't make soloing that much easier, IOW. I think most players who can clear something with a companion would be able to clear it on their own. By clearing, I mean actively playing, not watching in stealth.

Like I said, I have a difficult time believing that a companion can solo the more difficult DLC WBs. I posted this screenshot in another thread, but I'll put it here too. Four players, four companions. All companions dead. This WB has a LOT of stuff going on.



For companions to be worthwhile to me, I would have to be able to clear stuff with them that I can't clear without them, and I just don't have that experience. I probably survive a little longer in the IA with Azandar than without him, but otherwise I don't find them all that useful in terms of the ability to do more content with them that I couldn't do otherwise. Something like the oakensoul ring is more helpful.

freespirit

AzuraFan wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If you and your Companion are built to stay alive (with at least a self heal on each of you) then you're more likely to be able to clear content together.

Both me and whatever companion I'm using always have a self heal. I don't have a problem clearing content with them, but there's no way playing with a companion is on the same level as playing with another competent player. They don't make soloing that much easier, IOW. I think most players who can clear something with a companion would be able to clear it on their own. By clearing, I mean actively playing, not watching in stealth.

Like I said, I have a difficult time believing that a companion can solo the more difficult DLC WBs. I posted this screenshot in another thread, but I'll put it here too. Four players, four companions. All companions dead. This WB has a LOT of stuff going on.



For companions to be worthwhile to me, I would have to be able to clear stuff with them that I can't clear without them, and I just don't have that experience. I probably survive a little longer in the IA with Azandar than without him, but otherwise I don't find them all that useful in terms of the ability to do more content with them that I couldn't do otherwise. Something like the oakensoul ring is more helpful.

So on my main account I have a HA Sorc and a Templar(around 2400cp) that can solo a lot of stuff, adding Bastian in a tanky build definitely makes a lot more stuff solo-able. Do I have to throw some heals at him? Yes I do but I need them too!

On my Epic account which has way less CP(around 800 atm) and far fewer skillpoints but Bastian is kitted out exactly the same as my main, well he often out lives me.

We are starting our solo dungeon story runs and doing fine in base game dungeons, there have been many occasions when he has stopped me dying tbh.

SilverBride

Desiato wrote: »

What's wrong with multiple failures?! Why is it even so bad to aspire to do something and fail in a game?

Because I play to relax and have fun, not to be beaten down over and over and over by the same boss. Before One Tamriel I was stuck on a story boss fight literally for days before I finally succeeded. That did not make me feel good or give me any sense of achievement. It made me think about quitting, which I eventually did until they fixed things with One Tamriel.

Desiato wrote: »

You feel strong after defeating a weak opponent?

These opponents aren't weak. My character is strong.

Necrotech_Master

AzuraFan wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If you and your Companion are built to stay alive (with at least a self heal on each of you) then you're more likely to be able to clear content together.

Both me and whatever companion I'm using always have a self heal. I don't have a problem clearing content with them, but there's no way playing with a companion is on the same level as playing with another competent player. They don't make soloing that much easier, IOW. I think most players who can clear something with a companion would be able to clear it on their own. By clearing, I mean actively playing, not watching in stealth.

Like I said, I have a difficult time believing that a companion can solo the more difficult DLC WBs. I posted this screenshot in another thread, but I'll put it here too. Four players, four companions. All companions dead. This WB has a LOT of stuff going on.



For companions to be worthwhile to me, I would have to be able to clear stuff with them that I can't clear without them, and I just don't have that experience. I probably survive a little longer in the IA with Azandar than without him, but otherwise I don't find them all that useful in terms of the ability to do more content with them that I couldn't do otherwise. Something like the oakensoul ring is more helpful.

from my experience, the companions are actually the strongest while in the infinite archive due to the significant amount of dmg reduction they have in there

in most other situations (DLC dungeons, DLC WBs) they generally just take far too much dmg, that without telvanni efficiency to get their heal cooldowns maximized, and even then they still can die because they are effected by mechanics or too dumb to avoid the aoes

i usually always have companions with me as well, usually just to support my builds (DPS companions for tank characters, heal or tank companions for dps), however my characters do not rely on their assistance

i would say in about 7/10 dlc WBs or dungeons, the companions will usually wind up dead unless your on a fully dedicated healer setup (and even then they still can die)

personally i think companions need more ultimate options, they should at minimum have 1 offense, 1 defense, and 1 utility style ultimate to fit either a tank, heal, or dps playstyle (some of their current ultimate options are just bad, such as isobels)

AzuraFan

freespirit wrote: »

We are starting our solo dungeon story runs and doing fine in base game dungeons, there have been many occasions when he has stopped me dying tbh.

It's possible that I don't find companions all that useful because I can solo basegame stuff on my own (without them). I can't solo DLC dungeons and most DLC WBs, and the companions don't really help there. So I can see that if someone has problems soloing basegame stuff, the companions could help, but when it comes to areas and mobs with a little more difficulty, they don't. It's not as if I can suddenly solo stuff with companions that I couldn't before. Maybe in a few cases they help (easiest DLC stuff), but not most.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my experience, the companions are actually the strongest while in the infinite archive due to the significant amount of dmg reduction they have in there

That might explain why I do find Azandar somewhat useful in the IA.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

in most other situations (DLC dungeons, DLC WBs) they generally just take far too much dmg, that without telvanni efficiency to get their heal cooldowns maximized, and even then they still can die because they are effected by mechanics or too dumb to avoid the aoes
...
i would say in about 7/10 dlc WBs or dungeons, the companions will usually wind up dead unless your on a fully dedicated healer setup (and even then they still can die)

That's my experience too. And builds don't help when you're facing something with a lot of AoEs. The boss in the screenshot I posted has stuff emanating outwards in all directions that's pretty difficult to avoid. The companions don't even try to avoid anything, and that's why they end up dying pretty quickly.

Erickson9610

AzuraFan wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If you and your Companion are built to stay alive (with at least a self heal on each of you) then you're more likely to be able to clear content together.

Both me and whatever companion I'm using always have a self heal. I don't have a problem clearing content with them, but there's no way playing with a companion is on the same level as playing with another competent player. They don't make soloing that much easier, IOW. I think most players who can clear something with a companion would be able to clear it on their own. By clearing, I mean actively playing, not watching in stealth.

Like I said, I have a difficult time believing that a companion can solo the more difficult DLC WBs. I posted this screenshot in another thread, but I'll put it here too. Four players, four companions. All companions dead. This WB has a LOT of stuff going on.



For companions to be worthwhile to me, I would have to be able to clear stuff with them that I can't clear without them, and I just don't have that experience. I probably survive a little longer in the IA with Azandar than without him, but otherwise I don't find them all that useful in terms of the ability to do more content with them that I couldn't do otherwise. Something like the oakensoul ring is more helpful.

I want to emphasize that I only hide in stealth when benchmarking. It's the equivalent of using a certain buff food for parsing on a trial dummy; it's a theoretical situation which is meant to measure performance, not to be a realistic portrayal of an actual scenario.

When using the Companions whose builds have soloed that particular world boss I mentioned, they hardly ever die when fighting other bosses alongside me. I want to see how they perform without my assistance because we often get split up — and then it's up to them to survive. If they're not likely to die when we're split up, then they don't end up as a corpse on the ground.


So, Companions are absolutely viable for harder content. Even then, they may not be enough of an edge to clear some content, but if you build them right, then they'll survive encounters more often.

Necrotech_Master

AzuraFan wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

We are starting our solo dungeon story runs and doing fine in base game dungeons, there have been many occasions when he has stopped me dying tbh.

It's possible that I don't find companions all that useful because I can solo basegame stuff on my own (without them). I can't solo DLC dungeons and most DLC WBs, and the companions don't really help there. So I can see that if someone has problems soloing basegame stuff, the companions could help, but when it comes to areas and mobs with a little more difficulty, they don't. It's not as if I can suddenly solo stuff with companions that I couldn't before. Maybe in a few cases they help (easiest DLC stuff), but not most.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my experience, the companions are actually the strongest while in the infinite archive due to the significant amount of dmg reduction they have in there

That might explain why I do find Azandar somewhat useful in the IA.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

in most other situations (DLC dungeons, DLC WBs) they generally just take far too much dmg, that without telvanni efficiency to get their heal cooldowns maximized, and even then they still can die because they are effected by mechanics or too dumb to avoid the aoes
...
i would say in about 7/10 dlc WBs or dungeons, the companions will usually wind up dead unless your on a fully dedicated healer setup (and even then they still can die)

That's my experience too. And builds don't help when you're facing something with a lot of AoEs. The boss in the screenshot I posted has stuff emanating outwards in all directions that's pretty difficult to avoid. The companions don't even try to avoid anything, and that's why they end up dying pretty quickly.

for the archive, originally many of the pets and companions would die way too fast in there, so they got changed to not take any ramping dmg, and significantly reduced dmg from the enemies

so a tank companion with a self heal and shields can even face tank marauders and tho'at without hardly any support now (theres only a handful of bosses in there which actually can still kill the companions in there now)

I_killed_Vivec

SkaiFaith wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

It ain't solo if you have a companion.

I have my companions out 100% of the time cause I feel lonely. In the hardest fights like, let's say, Tragan the wandering minotaur they die after 10 seconds. Stop this nonsense of "if you have a companion out is not solo" - it is.

Why is it nonsense? Tragan kills 'em, what does that prove?

But if there is any content that you couldn't complete without a companion, but you can with a companion then clearly there is a difference between solo and solo with a companion.

Stop this nonsense of "it's still solo if I have a companion". You want to say it's solo... go solo.

spartaxoxo

No. It's the opposite. I know since Overland opponents are so weak to a lot of us it can be difficult to gauge their strength. But, they have gotten stronger with new releases generally since Blackwood. High Isle is when it hit a point that some players actually struggle now with it. And Necrom and West Weald have world bosses that the companions can't handle as easily as previous chapters.

Erickson9610

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

It ain't solo if you have a companion.

I have my companions out 100% of the time cause I feel lonely. In the hardest fights like, let's say, Tragan the wandering minotaur they die after 10 seconds. Stop this nonsense of "if you have a companion out is not solo" - it is.

Why is it nonsense? Tragan kills 'em, what does that prove?

But if there is any content that you couldn't complete without a companion, but you can with a companion then clearly there is a difference between solo and solo with a companion.

Stop this nonsense of "it's still solo if I have a companion". You want to say it's solo... go solo.

"Solo" can mean "without other players" or "without outside assistance". Companions aren't players, but they give you enough of a boost that the Infinite Archive places you on the Duo leaderboard if you go with a Companion. Thankfully, because "true solo" players would be at a disadvantage for their leaderboard if they didn't use a Companion — even if they only care about the damage reduction bonus from Pearlescent Ward.

When I say I play alone, I typically mean without other players, and sometimes with a Companion. When I say I'm playing solo, as in the group requirements for solo arenas, that cannot include Companions or other players.

spartaxoxo

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

It ain't solo if you have a companion.

I have my companions out 100% of the time cause I feel lonely. In the hardest fights like, let's say, Tragan the wandering minotaur they die after 10 seconds. Stop this nonsense of "if you have a companion out is not solo" - it is.

Why is it nonsense? Tragan kills 'em, what does that prove?

But if there is any content that you couldn't complete without a companion, but you can with a companion then clearly there is a difference between solo and solo with a companion.

Stop this nonsense of "it's still solo if I have a companion". You want to say it's solo... go solo.

I mean I could say the same thing about any other skill. I can beat this boss with a damage shield and heal slotted but not without it would still be considered soloing it. Some of us view the companions the same. They aren't controlled by real people and their AI is bad. Their gear is a pale imitation of what's available to a real player. Since they are so disconnected from being like an actual player, I'd still consider it solo.

sarahthes

SilverBride wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

How is there any feeling of achievement without any kind of challenge that requires problem solving to overcome?

There is problem solving figuring out the mechanics etc.. But it shouldn't take being completely golded out in the latest meta and very proficient at weaving to defeat a World Boss, and especially not a zone Story Boss. That shouldn't take multiple failures to figure out.

Desiato wrote: »

What satisfaction is derived from defeating an opponent one cannot lose to?

The satisfaction of feeling as strong as I worked hard to become.

Light attack weaving is irrelevant in the current meta. Just LA once every 9ish seconds for ulti gen and you're good.

Given people get trifectas in blue and purple gear, needing gold gear to defeat a world boss is a skill issue. The difference between gold and purple is miniscule with the exception of weapons, and gold mats for weapons can be acquired cheaply/easily from a number of sources.

Elsonso

SkaiFaith wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

"SkaiFaith wrote: »

I don't see why the difficulty of this boss should be the same for me and for a level 10 player

Because One Tamriel scales low level players to CP160 so they can quest any zone in any order along with their friends.

"SkaiFaith wrote: »

if nothing ever kills you, where is the feeling of achievement?

Being beat down and struggling doesn't give me a feeling of achievement. I get satisfaction from being able to defeat these enemies.

Wait, I see the first phrase you quoted from me got misinterpreted and I get why, I did not express myself right probably: I meant that the difficulty should be scaled down for a level 10 player and up for a CP 2.000+ so that we don't fight at the same difficulty level - no reason a level 10 player should be forced to face the same extreme difficulty a CP 2.000+ player is searching for to have fun.

Hope now you get what I wanted to say SilverBride

Seems to me that one of the "harder overland" suggestions was to not stop scaling the character at CP 160. Instead, start scaling them DOWN the further past CP 160 they get. When the get to CP 3600, I guess they would be about as powerful as a Level 2 just out of character generation. Optionally, of course.