The Cyrodiil plans = "yep"

Muizer

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They announced weeks ahead of time that it wasn't Cyrodiil related and yet chat expected Cyrodiil updates anyway. Not much more they can say to that but "yup."

I didn't expect updates for Cyro. I expected a small update. I wasn't alone. A lot of people were expecting something like a duel finder.

This isn't a small update (taking into consideration the resources available for PvP development). It is a big one and it demonstrates prioritization of BGs over Cyro despite the evident greater demand for the latter.

So even though nothing was promised for Cyro, its future looks more bleak now (if that was possible) than it did before the stream.

This may be just a matter of appearances, but even appearances matter. If there are no plans for open world PvP, I think after so many years they should just be open about it.

Erickson9610

We've been getting updates to Cyrodiil all year. Stackable siege weapons and universal repair kits, which can't be used in Imperial City or Battlegrounds. Now we're getting some update to Imperial City and Battlegrounds specifically.

Jaraal

Poss wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Actually I think they are working on Cyrodiil updates or have them in the backlog. The reason is because I now have confidence that ZOS does listen to player feedback but it takes them years to get changes out to Production. We started heavily recommending 2-team BG changes and competitive arenas in 2022 and based on what Brian said on the live stream, it was late 2022 when they started working on competitive 4v4 arenas that are shipping with Update 44.

So they might release Cyrodiil updates in the next year or two.

Cyrodiil hasn’t gotten a large update since Volundrung and that was with Elsweyr back in 2019. Since then we’ve had a few tweaks like with the killfeed, keep notifications but nothing gamebreaking. So how many more years do we have to wait?

People keep claiming the devs are held back by technical limitations but back when the game launched, (speaking from console) we all played on older generation consoles with much MUCH higher population caps and the game was playable.

Well they tried to fix Cyro performance by removing the deer. Maybe they can try removing the wolves as well.

On the other hand.... maybe they could adopt the wolves' combat range and use it for players, so that we could actually be out of combat after being a certain distance away.

Lumsdenml

Poss wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Actually I think they are working on Cyrodiil updates or have them in the backlog. The reason is because I now have confidence that ZOS does listen to player feedback but it takes them years to get changes out to Production. We started heavily recommending 2-team BG changes and competitive arenas in 2022 and based on what Brian said on the live stream, it was late 2022 when they started working on competitive 4v4 arenas that are shipping with Update 44.

So they might release Cyrodiil updates in the next year or two.

Cyrodiil hasn’t gotten a large update since Volundrung and that was with Elsweyr back in 2019. Since then we’ve had a few tweaks like with the killfeed, keep notifications but nothing gamebreaking. So how many more years do we have to wait?

People keep claiming the devs are held back by technical limitations but back when the game launched, (speaking from console) we all played on older generation consoles with much MUCH higher population caps and the game was playable.

The game was very different back then and it's much more complex. I mean, the base server code is probably 15-17 years old now. Think of everything added since then...

Muizer

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

The one thing we do want to note is that we have tried to make it clear for months now that this update would be Battlegrounds focused.

Must have missed that. What I recall was 'something for PvP that isn't Cyrodiil'.

spartaxoxo

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

The one thing we do want to note is that we have tried to make it clear for months now that this update would be Battlegrounds focused.

The only thing I saw was that it was PvP oriented, part of Q4, and then later that it wouldn't be Cyrodiil. I was actually anticipating something entirely new until fairly recently like ranked dueling. If it was your intent all year to make it known it was a Battleground update, then y'all needed to be direct and say that.

ETA

What's the point of Quarter 4 at this point if it isn't new systems? This an update to an old one. An extensive update that will make it feel like new. But something we're already familiar with nonetheless.

spartaxoxo

Muizer wrote: »

I didn't expect updates for Cyro. I expected a small update. I wasn't alone. A lot of people were expecting something like a duel finder.

I didn't expect anything for Cyrodiil because they told us it wasn't for it. I did expect something like a Duel Finder. They teased for a long time it was the Q4 update and not for Cyrodiil, so I expected a new system. I thought the whole point of scrapping the small zone dlc was new systems tbh. IDK what we're supposed to be looking forward to in Q4 anymore

Rohamad_Ali

I think the first 5 years after beta I kind of had expectations about cyrodiil but those died off years ago . I just play knowing that it is a mess. A big broken mess of fun.

Elsonso

Muizer wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

The one thing we do want to note is that we have tried to make it clear for months now that this update would be Battlegrounds focused.

Must have missed that. What I recall was 'something for PvP that isn't Cyrodiil'.

I agree. It was "not Cyrodiil". The first indication about what that meant came just a few weeks ago.

ArchMikem

This game is ten years old now, built around not the best of engines. I assume ZOS never anticipated how badly Cyrodiil performance would get as the game combat mechanics updated and expanded, and it seems they've reached a point where they frankly have no idea how to solve the performance problem that would enable to introduce new content to the zone, and they also don't know what to say on the matter as they can't just make promises nor drop the bomb that Cyro will never be updated again. It's a pickle.

BGs are an easier route for them. They're much smaller instances proven to have reliable performance. They could simply create new arenas with little to no issue, so there's your PvP content.

In my view, if ZOS REALLY wanted to update/expand Cyrodiil PvP, I bet it would take building a whole new game for it.

LPapirius

ArchMikem wrote: »

This game is ten years old now, built around not the best of engines. I assume ZOS never anticipated how badly Cyrodiil performance would get as the game combat mechanics updated and expanded, and it seems they've reached a point where they frankly have no idea how to solve the performance problem that would enable to introduce new content to the zone, and they also don't know what to say on the matter as they can't just make promises nor drop the bomb that Cyro will never be updated again. It's a pickle.

BGs are an easier route for them. They're much smaller instances proven to have reliable performance. They could simply create new arenas with little to no issue, so there's your PvP content.

In my view, if ZOS REALLY wanted to update/expand Cyrodiil PvP, I bet it would take building a whole new game for it.

It's not a pickle though. I'm fairly certain that every PvP player would be just fine with going back to the sets and Cyrodiil exactly as it was in v1.6. That was 5-6 years ago, and Cyro was amazing then. But I seriously doubt that this situation is beyond ZOS' ability to solve. I think they're doing the math and deciding it's not economical for them to rectify the situation. For the most part I think ZOS has put ESO on the shelf, as the saying goes. They're focusing on other things these days.

xDeusEJRx

ForumSavant wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

First, we do want to acknowledge folks sentiment here and know that we are providing the feedback of disappointment of no Cyrodiil content to the team. We understand many of you want new content for Cyrodiil and to address long standing issues. So we will continue to voice those concerns with the team. Gina and Brian mentioning Cyrodiil was not to raise hope and dash it, but to acknowledge the chat mentioning Cyrodiil during the stream.

The one thing we do want to note is that we have tried to make it clear for months now that this update would be Battlegrounds focused. We have noted that several times over the last few months here on the forum and on our social channels. We know this does not diminished the frustration. We just want to make it clear that we tried to set expectations accordingly to avoid disappointment. But we will take a look back and see how we can better set expectations next time to make sure we are being clear about the intention of the stream.

I don't even mind the changes, I like the instanced 4v4 and 8v8, but where was it stated that it would be BG focused? All I had ever seen was that update 44 would be "PvP focused" with no real indication as to what that focus would be on.

To be fair, they did mention it was battlegrounds back in August I remember, but it was on a livestream that I'm pretty sure lots of people didn't tune in to see:
https://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/clip/CrepuscularGracefulSwordHotPokket-eF9vykxmrIKWBL4t

loosej

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

First, we do want to acknowledge folks sentiment here and know that we are providing the feedback of disappointment of no Cyrodiil content to the team. We understand many of you want new content for Cyrodiil and to address long standing issues. So we will continue to voice those concerns with the team. Gina and Brian mentioning Cyrodiil was not to raise hope and dash it, but to acknowledge the chat mentioning Cyrodiil during the stream.

The one thing we do want to note is that we have tried to make it clear for months now that this update would be Battlegrounds focused. We have noted that several times over the last few months here on the forum and on our social channels. We know this does not diminished the frustration. We just want to make it clear that we tried to set expectations accordingly to avoid disappointment. But we will take a look back and see how we can better set expectations next time to make sure we are being clear about the intention of the stream.

I'm sorry Kevin but I must have missed all of the several times you guys noted that the update would be Battlegrounds focused? The first time I heard about it was at the very end of a stream last week or the week before, where Gina mentioned "the next stream will be about U44 and the battleground changes". That and the data mined by UESP we weren't allowed to mention here. It would help a lot if you could show us some examples where you guys announced it would be battlegrounds.

cptfrog

loosej wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

First, we do want to acknowledge folks sentiment here and know that we are providing the feedback of disappointment of no Cyrodiil content to the team. We understand many of you want new content for Cyrodiil and to address long standing issues. So we will continue to voice those concerns with the team. Gina and Brian mentioning Cyrodiil was not to raise hope and dash it, but to acknowledge the chat mentioning Cyrodiil during the stream.

The one thing we do want to note is that we have tried to make it clear for months now that this update would be Battlegrounds focused. We have noted that several times over the last few months here on the forum and on our social channels. We know this does not diminished the frustration. We just want to make it clear that we tried to set expectations accordingly to avoid disappointment. But we will take a look back and see how we can better set expectations next time to make sure we are being clear about the intention of the stream.

I'm sorry Kevin but I must have missed all of the several times you guys noted that the update would be Battlegrounds focused? The first time I heard about it was at the very end of a stream last week or the week before, where Gina mentioned "the next stream will be about U44 and the battleground changes". That and the data mined by UESP we weren't allowed to mention here. It would help a lot if you could show us some examples where you guys announced it would be battlegrounds.

I have to agree with you on this. Good question.
There werent any mentions of it being a BG update only until very very recently, like last 1-2 weeks.

Before these 1-2 weeks it was called ''A big PVP update''.
In my opinion that is such a misdirection since outside of these 6-7 new BG maps there isnt anything related at all with PvP itself.
Saying its a PvP update and then including new companions, housing etc. is to me a slap in the face to the PvP community.
The BG maps/ideas themself isnt all too bad i have to say but to call it 'A big PvP update' is to me just lying since adding new BG maps isnt something new exacly, its been done once or twice before.
I would expect something done/changed with how Battle Spirit works or something completely new in Cyrodiil that have been untouched for many years or even at this point a new map for cyrodiil (yes this is asking ALOT from them, but imo that would be a BIG PVP update).

albertberku

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

People ask for "updates to Cyrodiil" but I'm not sure what they mean...

... what can you update? I mean yes, you can update performance, but I think that "improve performance" is both at the top of their docket and is ongoing across PVE, PVP, housing... it's so vague and broad as to be meaningless. Hardware upgrades would help, sure - but they help more than Cyrodiil.

What do people who bemoan the lack of updates to Cyrodiil want to see? What sort of update?

Not that I'm a dev (probably for the best) but other than changing the map around (how would you guys like another outpost to fight over? huh!? Yeah!), or fiddling with balance, or the aformentioned "make ESO have better performance", what are some specific action items we can call upon the devs to make?

Exactly my thoughts. Asking for "updates", but what do you mean?

It is an open world PvP map, like why there has to be some content there so badly? It is there to fight against other players, if you dont enjoy it, you wont enjoy it if they introduce 1000 different content to make PvP more enjoyable for you.

It is almost like getting frustrated because they havent added any new content to dueling since the beginning of the game! Maybe they should add caravans and outposts to dueling, as well so that there will be more ways of enjoying it.

loosej

albertberku wrote: »

It is an open world PvP map, like why there has to be some content there so badly? It is there to fight against other players, if you dont enjoy it, you wont enjoy it if they introduce 1000 different content to make PvP more enjoyable for you.

No need for the introduction of 1000 different content, letting 300 extra players in without half of them crashing would be a nice start.

Poss

loosej wrote: »

I'm sorry Kevin but I must have missed all of the several times you guys noted that the update would be Battlegrounds focused?

I too wanted to add my disappointment about this. Why promote a new future update as a “PvP update” when a vast majority of PvPers play Cyrodiil. I didn’t hear anything about ZoS confirming it was Battleground related. “Update 44: Battlegrounds Update” would have spared us all of this disappointment.

Muizer

albertberku wrote: »

Exactly my thoughts. Asking for "updates", but what do you mean?

The main issues are well known and profound. They need to be fixed. It's not for us to say how. That's ZoS' problem.

LadyGP

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

First, we do want to acknowledge folks sentiment here and know that we are providing the feedback of disappointment of no Cyrodiil content to the team. We understand many of you want new content for Cyrodiil and to address long standing issues. So we will continue to voice those concerns with the team. Gina and Brian mentioning Cyrodiil was not to raise hope and dash it, but to acknowledge the chat mentioning Cyrodiil during the stream.

The one thing we do want to note is that we have tried to make it clear for months now that this update would be Battlegrounds focused. We have noted that several times over the last few months here on the forum and on our social channels. We know this does not diminished the frustration. We just want to make it clear that we tried to set expectations accordingly to avoid disappointment. But we will take a look back and see how we can better set expectations next time to make sure we are being clear about the intention of the stream.

I appreciate this comment.

One suggestion I would have would be to change the wording on the Road map to "Battle Grounds Update" or something similar. I know most players see PvP and instantly think Cyro (yes BGs is PvP still I get that)

I'm pretty active on the forums and socials and I never once saw something from ZOS saying it wasn't a Cyro related update. I only found out because of some streamers video I just happened to get linked to in a guilds discord.

Poss

albertberku wrote: »

Exactly my thoughts. Asking for "updates", but what do you mean?

You try going 5 years without a new trial, dungeon or chapter. 😂

But the issues with Cyrodiil go way deeper than actual new content. Most PvPers simply want the problems that have existed for years fixed. The map itself is fine, as is the gameplay, we’re generally happy with what we have. It’s the stability, performance and general balancing side that we’d love to see addressed.

Erickson9610

Poss wrote: »

You try going 5 years without a new trial, dungeon or chapter.

Poss wrote: »

The map itself is fine, as is the gameplay, we’re generally happy with what we have.

You really can't compare PvE to PvP. Sure, players will get bored if there's no new content in any mode, but there are far more gameplay options when players play against one another versus when players play together through content. In PvE, the appeal comes from the content; in PvP, the appeal comes from the other players. If you run out of new content, then you replay old content until you move on to something else.

But the thing about PvP in this game is that it's always receiving new content. Maybe not always PvP-exclusive content, but every new item set, balance change, and nearly every Chapter feature affects PvP and PvE in some way. Every year there's always some new combat-related feature to experiment with in PvP, which keeps the PvP experience fresh.

Now, if PvP and PvE were balanced separately, how often would you imagine PvP would get a balance change? I'd wager not nearly as often as it currently does. Change is good because it keeps the PvP gameplay interesting.

LadyGP

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Poss wrote: »

You try going 5 years without a new trial, dungeon or chapter.

Poss wrote: »

The map itself is fine, as is the gameplay, we’re generally happy with what we have.

You really can't compare PvE to PvP. Sure, players will get bored if there's no new content in any mode, but there are far more gameplay options when players play against one another versus when players play together through content. In PvE, the appeal comes from the content; in PvP, the appeal comes from the other players. If you run out of new content, then you replay old content until you move on to something else.

But the thing about PvP in this game is that it's always receiving new content. Maybe not always PvP-exclusive content, but every new item set, balance change, and nearly every Chapter feature affects PvP and PvE in some way. Every year there's always some new combat-related feature to experiment with in PvP, which keeps the PvP experience fresh.

Now, if PvP and PvE were balanced separately, how often would you imagine PvP would get a balance change? I'd wager not nearly as often as it currently does. Change is good because it keeps the PvP gameplay interesting.

Always disliked this argument that new sets = PvP content.

Destai

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

First, we do want to acknowledge folks sentiment here and know that we are providing the feedback of disappointment of no Cyrodiil content to the team. We understand many of you want new content for Cyrodiil and to address long standing issues. So we will continue to voice those concerns with the team. Gina and Brian mentioning Cyrodiil was not to raise hope and dash it, but to acknowledge the chat mentioning Cyrodiil during the stream.

I appreciate you saying something.

It's not just the fact that there's no content. Yes, that's a huge part of the issue. The other part of it is your communication about it as a company.

Quite frankly, I don't know of many other lines of work where something can be issue for several years and not have at least a high-level overview of how it's getting fixed. I get every company is different, that's fine, but client status updates and roadmaps are pretty universal.

Whoever you're voicing these concerns to (who is that by the way?), they should be working with you guys to get that together. It really seems like you guys are passing along feedback to a team and it's ending there. It also seems like outside of content release and small, one-off issues, ZOS is pretty resistant to provide these kinds of updates. Why is that?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

The one thing we do want to note is that we have tried to make it clear for months now that this update would be Battlegrounds focused. We have noted that several times over the last few months here on the forum and on our social channels. We know this does not diminished the frustration. We just want to make it clear that we tried to set expectations accordingly to avoid disappointment.

Where did you make it clear? Was there a post here or on the website? Was it stickied? Was it shared during the stream?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

But we will take a look back and see how we can better set expectations next time to make sure we are being clear about the intention of the stream.

Kevin, it's not just about the intention of the stream. That's not the core issue. The core issue is Cyrodiil has had subpar performance for years and no one knows when or how it's getting fixed. If you guys aren't going to provide regular, transparent, detailed status updates, and it continues to be an issue (which let's be real here, there's no reason to believe otherwise), then you're going to keep getting pestered. No one wants that. We'd all like to enjoy streams without yet another Cyrodiil fiasco. Clearly, just saying it won't be discussed hasn't worked. Please, try something else.

JustLovely

LadyGP wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Poss wrote: »

You try going 5 years without a new trial, dungeon or chapter.

Poss wrote: »

The map itself is fine, as is the gameplay, we’re generally happy with what we have.

You really can't compare PvE to PvP. Sure, players will get bored if there's no new content in any mode, but there are far more gameplay options when players play against one another versus when players play together through content. In PvE, the appeal comes from the content; in PvP, the appeal comes from the other players. If you run out of new content, then you replay old content until you move on to something else.

But the thing about PvP in this game is that it's always receiving new content. Maybe not always PvP-exclusive content, but every new item set, balance change, and nearly every Chapter feature affects PvP and PvE in some way. Every year there's always some new combat-related feature to experiment with in PvP, which keeps the PvP experience fresh.

Now, if PvP and PvE were balanced separately, how often would you imagine PvP would get a balance change? I'd wager not nearly as often as it currently does. Change is good because it keeps the PvP gameplay interesting.

Always disliked this argument that new sets = PvP content.

Exactly. It's the same as claiming that new sets dropping in Cyrodiil is adding PvE content.

Poss

Erickson9610 wrote: »

But the thing about PvP in this game is that it's always receiving new content. Maybe not always PvP-exclusive content, but every new item set, balance change, and nearly every Chapter feature affects PvP and PvE in some way. Every year there's always some new combat-related feature to experiment with in PvP, which keeps the PvP experience fresh.

I’m sorry but you’re wrong.

Every balance change is made with the intention of balancing PvE. Never ever is PvP thought about when these changes are made. For example, Nightblade. This class just gets stronger and stronger with each new chapter to the point now where this class is just disgustingly powerful. They buff nightblade in an attempt to make it more viable in PvE without looking at the impact this’ll have on the meta in PvP

Similarly with Scribing. All this has done is made ballgroups tankier with more HoTs and stackable damage mitigation. Did they think about this when they introduced Scribing? No

Tcholl

We have shared the feedback everywhere and whenever we can, but the devs still do not take the players into account.

The vast majority of ppl who spent hours playing PvP in ESO do not play BG and for a reason. This attempt to force players into a content they do not want to play just cause more dissatisfaction.

The game is not catering for PvP players, not even on PvP content. This update will only please the few players doing daily BG or IC quests. Before someone says that this is my opinion, please refer to the chat comments on the stream or the many posts here or in reddit.

When you consider this update, along the tank/healing meta and the fact that class balance is another big issue now, you notice how far the devs are from the pvp players. ZOS have quit trying to improve this aspect of the game and abandoned the players for good and this is showing bad on the updates.

It seems that game devs wants to see more PvP players leaving ESO, since we do not feel represented in any way for a long time now (many and many years).

This update stream was a sad day to all PvPers and the worst is that we knew it was coming.

Erickson9610

LadyGP wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Poss wrote: »

You try going 5 years without a new trial, dungeon or chapter.

Poss wrote: »

The map itself is fine, as is the gameplay, we’re generally happy with what we have.

You really can't compare PvE to PvP. Sure, players will get bored if there's no new content in any mode, but there are far more gameplay options when players play against one another versus when players play together through content. In PvE, the appeal comes from the content; in PvP, the appeal comes from the other players. If you run out of new content, then you replay old content until you move on to something else.

But the thing about PvP in this game is that it's always receiving new content. Maybe not always PvP-exclusive content, but every new item set, balance change, and nearly every Chapter feature affects PvP and PvE in some way. Every year there's always some new combat-related feature to experiment with in PvP, which keeps the PvP experience fresh.

Now, if PvP and PvE were balanced separately, how often would you imagine PvP would get a balance change? I'd wager not nearly as often as it currently does. Change is good because it keeps the PvP gameplay interesting.

Always disliked this argument that new sets = PvP content.

If a shooter game adds new guns, does that count as PvP content? I would think so. It's not a new map or a new gamemode, but it is still content to be used in PvP.

In this case, ESO adds new effects with item sets. A lot of new gear is released, with some of it being sourced from PvP activities. I think it's a fair comparison to make, because like new weapons in a shooter game, they add new ways to play PvP.

Lumsdenml

Ok, just going to throw this out there... It seems that the devs feel that in PVE, they provide the content and story lines that the players play through and in PVP Cyrodiil, the players provide the content to play through. Is that reasonable? I can see, on the dev side, that being a reasonable position. As a player, I can also see how something new would be fun...

Muizer

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If a shooter game adds new guns, does that count as PvP content? I would think so. It's not a new map or a new gamemode, but it is still content to be used in PvP.

In this case, ESO adds new effects with item sets. A lot of new gear is released, with some of it being sourced from PvP activities. I think it's a fair comparison to make, because like new weapons in a shooter game, they add new ways to play PvP.

If your house has cracks in the walls you don't really care if the doors get a new coat of paint. You look to the foundation.

LadyGP

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Ok, just going to throw this out there... It seems that the devs feel that in PVE, they provide the content and story lines that the players play through and in PVP Cyrodiil, the players provide the content to play through. Is that reasonable? I can see, on the dev side, that being a reasonable position. As a player, I can also see how something new would be fun...

To be honest... I think the overwhelming majority of PvPers would be okay with zero content moving forward in exchange for just fixing the performance issues that have been plaguing it for many years.

Give this ol' beater of a car a little tune up - ya know what I mean?