End of chapter bosses?

Parasaurolophus

The immunity phases of bosses are not fundamentally different from other mechanics. Players just don't like that they can't burn everything down in a couple of seconds.

SilverBride

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

The immunity phases of bosses are not fundamentally different from other mechanics. Players just don't like that they can't burn everything down in a couple of seconds.

I don't like that it's the same thing over and over and over.

Boss goes into immune phase
Kill adds
Use a special weapon or attack on adds coming out of portals
Click X to close portal
Hit the Boss a couple of times before they go immune again
Rinse and repeat... multiple times

Where is the challenge here?

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

The immunity phases of bosses are not fundamentally different from other mechanics. Players just don't like that they can't burn everything down in a couple of seconds.

I don't like that it's the same thing over and over and over.

Boss goes into immune phase
Kill adds
Use a special weapon or attack on adds coming out of portals
Click X to close portal
Hit the Boss a couple of times before they go immune again
Rinse and repeat... multiple times

Where is the challenge here?

None. You're absolutely right. The reason why almost nobody is happy is this right here. This post exactly.

The people who can't do it can't finish the stories. The ones that want to rush through the fight because that's what they enjoy (quickly taking enemies down) are being artificially slowed down with tedious nonsense that adds no challenge. And the people looking for a challenge aren't getting it because these mechs aren't designed to be a good challenge since they are tutorial content. They are only designed to be time wasters. So the boss can monologue.

Who actually wins here?

TaSheen

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

The immunity phases of bosses are not fundamentally different from other mechanics. Players just don't like that they can't burn everything down in a couple of seconds.

I don't like that it's the same thing over and over and over.

Boss goes into immune phase
Kill adds
Use a special weapon or attack on adds coming out of portals
Click X to close portal
Hit the Boss a couple of times before they go immune again
Rinse and repeat... multiple times

Where is the challenge here?

None. You're absolutely right. The reason why almost nobody is happy is this right here. This post exactly.

The people who can't do it can't finish the stories. The ones that want to rush through the fight because that's what they enjoy (quickly taking enemies down) are being artificially slowed down with tedious nonsense that adds no challenge. And the people looking for a challenge aren't getting it because these mechs aren't designed to be a good challenge since they are tutorial content. They are only designed to be time wasters. So the boss can monologue.

Who actually wins here?

None of us, obviously. *shrug*

Truthfully....? I don't give a rat's patoot what the "boss" says because the devs think s/he or it should monologue. By the time I get to that part of the quest line (assuming I get that far - certainly NOT a given....) I do not care about anything that "boss" might have to say.

Period.

Seriously.... the earlier quest stages are lengthy and stultifying enough. I like questing.... but whoever thought a single zone quest line should go on forever.... just no. And.... after some further very intense thought once someone else said something I actually considered profoundly insightful (Elsonso? maybe?).... I believe I will simply ignore everything "questing" from now on. I haven't enjoyed it for.... a number of years now. I think it's time to just say - I'll mess with what I really enjoy in this game, and the zone quests ARE NOT IT ANYMORE. Yes.... the zone quests were fun from 2017 until.... probably during the covid years. And the devs never bothered to get it all together again after. So.... "tips hat to the early years' devs" - but I'm done now.

Have fun however you can everyone.

katanagirl1

TaSheen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

The immunity phases of bosses are not fundamentally different from other mechanics. Players just don't like that they can't burn everything down in a couple of seconds.

I don't like that it's the same thing over and over and over.

Boss goes into immune phase
Kill adds
Use a special weapon or attack on adds coming out of portals
Click X to close portal
Hit the Boss a couple of times before they go immune again
Rinse and repeat... multiple times

Where is the challenge here?

None. You're absolutely right. The reason why almost nobody is happy is this right here. This post exactly.

The people who can't do it can't finish the stories. The ones that want to rush through the fight because that's what they enjoy (quickly taking enemies down) are being artificially slowed down with tedious nonsense that adds no challenge. And the people looking for a challenge aren't getting it because these mechs aren't designed to be a good challenge since they are tutorial content. They are only designed to be time wasters. So the boss can monologue.

Who actually wins here?

None of us, obviously. *shrug*

Truthfully....? I don't give a rat's patoot what the "boss" says because the devs think s/he or it should monologue. By the time I get to that part of the quest line (assuming I get that far - certainly NOT a given....) I do not care about anything that "boss" might have to say.

Period.

Seriously.... the earlier quest stages are lengthy and stultifying enough. I like questing.... but whoever thought a single zone quest line should go on forever.... just no. And.... after some further very intense thought once someone else said something I actually considered profoundly insightful (Elsonso? maybe?).... I believe I will simply ignore everything "questing" from now on. I haven't enjoyed it for.... a number of years now. I think it's time to just say - I'll mess with what I really enjoy in this game, and the zone quests ARE NOT IT ANYMORE. Yes.... the zone quests were fun from 2017 until.... probably during the covid years. And the devs never bothered to get it all together again after. So.... "tips hat to the early years' devs" - but I'm done now.

Have fun however you can everyone.

So I think this is a good example. Some ESO players enjoy questing and doing whatever and don’t care for PvP, trials, or even group dungeons. Those players should be able to finish the story mode that they purchased. This content should be able to be completed wearing overland or crafted gear and not require dungeon gear, especially dlc dungeon gear. The challenges in the game should be found in group instanced content.

Nerouyn

katanagirl1 wrote: »

So I think this is a good example. Some ESO players enjoy questing and doing whatever and don’t care for PvP, trials, or even group dungeons. Those players should be able to finish the story mode that they purchased. This content should be able to be completed wearing overland or crafted gear and not require dungeon gear, especially dlc dungeon gear. The challenges in the game should be found in group instanced content.

I broadly agree with you and applaud this kind of attitude. People have fun in different ways and other players and the developers should respect that.

The question of challenge is a complex one though.

Personally I find no challenge or fun in "mechanics". Super powerful boss beings who can be consistently cheesed by following a specific sequence in their dungeons. That's rat in a maze territory. Not challenging. Just tedious.

Also for my tastes, immersion breaking. Super powerful beings defeated by simple tricks. Mmm.

Some other people genuinely love this stuff, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that or them. Each to their own.

But this game and other MMOs I've played provide this as the only group PvE content, and then try to "teach" players they're wrong about it not being fun.

Ugh.

When I first read about the Infinite Archives I was hopeful for properly challenging procedurally generated small group content. But much of it just seems to be "mechanics" for two.

Ugh.

katanagirl1

Nerouyn wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

So I think this is a good example. Some ESO players enjoy questing and doing whatever and don’t care for PvP, trials, or even group dungeons. Those players should be able to finish the story mode that they purchased. This content should be able to be completed wearing overland or crafted gear and not require dungeon gear, especially dlc dungeon gear. The challenges in the game should be found in group instanced content.

I broadly agree with you and applaud this kind of attitude. People have fun in different ways and other players and the developers should respect that.

The question of challenge is a complex one though.

Personally I find no challenge or fun in "mechanics". Super powerful boss beings who can be consistently cheesed by following a specific sequence in their dungeons. That's rat in a maze territory. Not challenging. Just tedious.

Also for my tastes, immersion breaking. Super powerful beings defeated by simple tricks. Mmm.

Some other people genuinely love this stuff, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that or them. Each to their own.

But this game and other MMOs I've played provide this as the only group PvE content, and then try to "teach" players they're wrong about it not being fun.

Ugh.

When I first read about the Infinite Archives I was hopeful for properly challenging procedurally generated small group content. But much of it just seems to be "mechanics" for two.

Ugh.

All I have to do is think back to my first character in the game. I chose a stamblade, I didn’t know anything about skill rotations and builds and wore heavy armor because I kept dying to more than 2 or 3 mobs. I just wanted a sneaky archer like I had in Skyrim. Either players forget how hard it was in the beginning or they came from an mmo background and knew how to make a build when they started. If you get good at this game, of course the story bosses will be super easy.

I probably died to Molag Bal a few times on my first toon, but the whole battle lasted 3 seconds on my last one. It was a revelation the first time I went back to running a normal trial after doing a vet hard mode. I could have done it blindfolded. You just get better at everything and it really adds up.

SeaGtGruff

joergino wrote: »

I remember fighting the two Elsweyr end bosses in a group with a streamer and especially the Northern one was an absolutely lousy experience even though there were three of us.
I also remember there being issues with who could come along to the boss fight in Southern Elsweyr with her. Since we were on the same quest step, this wasn't problematic for me. But another friend was either lagging behind or not on the quest at all, so there were problems. Since it's been quite a few years since then, I can't recall if he could come along if he was in the same place as her when she entered the instance or not. He definitely couldn't just teleport to us.

I believe in Wrothgar it was the same, but since we were all on the same quest step, it was no problem. What TaSheen wrote, basically.

I haven't had a problem killing any of the zone questline end bosses by myself yet, although I haven't completed the questlines for High Isle, Galen, Telvanni Peninsula, and Gold Road yet.

But it's clear that someone's experience can be vastly different than most everyone else's. *

I remember struggling with certain quests in Vvardenfell on my very first character. For instance, no matter how many times I tried, I simply could not survive the fight inside Skar at Ald'ruhn, and there were some miscellaneous quests that I had a lot of trouble with. It turned out that this was mainly my own fault, because (1) I was thrown off by the three Attributes and their similarity to Skyrim, so I was distributing my Attribute Points equally among Magicka, Health, and Stamina as I was leveling up; and (2) I didn't fully understand the various Skills yet, so I wasn't distributing any of my Skill Points from leveling up due to uncertainty over which Skills to put them into, hence I was basically just light-attacking everything. I eventually had so much trouble with that character that I abandoned it, created a new one-- which is now my main character-- and haven't had those kinds of problems since then.

On the other hand, I do have difficulty clearing bosses and their adds for things like WB or incursion daily quests; and as I've said, I haven't completed High Isle and beyond yet. I even have some difficulty with certain WBs in base game zones and Wrothgar, as well as certain repeatable content in Craglorn. But my philosophy is that I'm okay with staying away from any content that I can't solo yet, and putting it off for later when I'm either with a group or am able to solo it.

I do feel like the overall content has been getting progressively more difficult with each new expansion, and I'm definitely not thrilled about that. It feels like each new zone's content is designed with an ever-increasing DPS "standard" in mind, probably based around each expansion's new item sets and mythic gear-- but my problem is, I haven't acquired all of the item sets and mythic gear yet, and I'm not particularly interested in grinding for it.

* Edit: I had meant to say, I remember grouping with a couple of random players several years ago because one of them was having trouble with the zone questline in Bal Foyen (yes, in a starter zone!), and it turned out that I couldn't help them because I'd already cleared the zone and presumably was not in the same "phase" as the player who was having trouble-- they were invisible to us, even though we could see their health bar. It may also have been that they were in a different instance than us, but I think we did try porting to them and they were still invisible to us. My point being, that even the start zones can be challenging for some players.

SilverBride

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I haven't had a problem killing any of the zone questline end bosses by myself yet, although I haven't completed the questlines for High Isle, Galen, Telvanni Peninsula, and Gold Road yet.

Those chapters are when the changes became much more apparant.