RNG is not welcome anymore.

FlopsyPrince

SilverBride wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

The most soul destroying gaming experience I've ever had was the grind for the style pages during the 10th anniversary event. That was so the opposite of a celebration it made the event truly unforgettable.

That was absolutely the most horrific grind in any of the games I've played ever. The worst part is we begged for some conversation about it and not one single word was ever communicated back to us.

That was the "crafting" event, right? That one didn't even give many things out for crafting!

Necrotech_Master

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

The most soul destroying gaming experience I've ever had was the grind for the style pages during the 10th anniversary event. That was so the opposite of a celebration it made the event truly unforgettable.

That was absolutely the most horrific grind in any of the games I've played ever. The worst part is we begged for some conversation about it and not one single word was ever communicated back to us.

That was the "crafting" event, right? That one didn't even give many things out for crafting!

the "crafting" event was the zenithar one, which happened after the anniversary event

SilverBride

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

The most soul destroying gaming experience I've ever had was the grind for the style pages during the 10th anniversary event. That was so the opposite of a celebration it made the event truly unforgettable.

That was absolutely the most horrific grind in any of the games I've played ever. The worst part is we begged for some conversation about it and not one single word was ever communicated back to us.

That was the "crafting" event, right? That one didn't even give many things out for crafting!

The Anniversary Jubilee Event.

Shara_Wynn

I think if they just got rid of the outliers and changed whatever algorithm they are using, it would be a lot less painful.

Make it so that the longer you "farm" a thing, the greater the chance of it dropping becomes. As your time spent farming tends to infinity (ok maybe not infinity but 20, 50, 100 attempts) so the chances of the item dropping tends to 100%.

redspecter23

Some elements of RNG are so punishing that it can turn people off of the activity completely. I use some of the lead drop rates as an example. Requiring hundreds and hundreds of zone specific treasure maps to finish an Apocryphal Well codex is not something many would consider fun. In addition, it's just plain not reasonable for one person to acquire that many maps. That's multiple weeks of clearing out every guild store in the game.

It was mentioned earlier that if someone finds an aspect of RNG displeasing, they might consider stepping away from it. While that is a valid answer, anything that pushes players away from the game should be looked at very closely to see if that aspect is really accomplishing the goal it was set out to accomplish. Should there be grinds in the game that are so unreasonable that players instead choose to simply not do them?

Adaarye

AlnilamE wrote: »

SonOfSoma wrote: »

You know what... don't care now.

I'm not chasing any of it anymore.

The game mechanics (RNG) has made me disengage with the game.

OK, but again, what game mechanic do you want to replace the RNG with?

Some games have a "pity system" in which if you don't recieve something after X tries, you will get it on the next try

EX) Player farms for an item 100 times and does not receive the item, on the 101st attempt, player receives the item

I think something like this would buy and incredible amount of player goodwill

FlopsyPrince

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

The most soul destroying gaming experience I've ever had was the grind for the style pages during the 10th anniversary event. That was so the opposite of a celebration it made the event truly unforgettable.

That was absolutely the most horrific grind in any of the games I've played ever. The worst part is we begged for some conversation about it and not one single word was ever communicated back to us.

That was the "crafting" event, right? That one didn't even give many things out for crafting!

the "crafting" event was the zenithar one, which happened after the anniversary event

SilverBride wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

The most soul destroying gaming experience I've ever had was the grind for the style pages during the 10th anniversary event. That was so the opposite of a celebration it made the event truly unforgettable.

That was absolutely the most horrific grind in any of the games I've played ever. The worst part is we begged for some conversation about it and not one single word was ever communicated back to us.

That was the "crafting" event, right? That one didn't even give many things out for crafting!

The Anniversary Jubilee Event.

Thanks to both of you. The past events run together in my mind a bit, but now I remember that it had a LOT more event crates drop.

ElderOfTamriel

SilverBride wrote: »

Keep RNG but... make it so every time a chest is opened or a boss defeated or whatever the source for the lead or item is, the RNG percentage increases.

So if there is a 10% chance to get said item from a delve boss for example, increase that to 15% the next time the boss is encountered, and so on. This will guarantee that the player isn't spending a year and still never getting the item.

They curated dungeon drops so why not this, too?

that would probably be ok for leads which you cant buy somewhere but shouldnt be implemented like this for other rare drops as mask style pages or rare furnishing drops. the whole thing of these rare drops would be pointless then. i like it as it is. if you want something exclusive you either gotta farm it or buy it for a high price in guild traders.

wolfie1.0.

One of the only reasons the style pages are desirable IS because of how rare they drop.

Make something too common and no one wants it, no one will go out of their way to get it.

Once you have everything the desire to continue playing goes out the window.

If you have nothing the desire to commit to a game is fleeting.


All things need balancing and some items should be harder to get than others.

Elsonso

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

One of the only reasons the style pages are desirable IS because of how rare they drop.

Make something too common and no one wants it, no one will go out of their way to get it.

Once you have everything the desire to continue playing goes out the window.

If you have nothing the desire to commit to a game is fleeting.

All things need balancing and some items should be harder to get than others.

While I agree, in theory, making this a random drop from a known source sort of works against this balance. It causes an imbalance in the form of repetitive farming of the source until an RNG decides the player has farmed enough. If the random chance is low enough, it is either the definition of "insanity" or the cause of it.

The problem is that game worlds are about as deep as a kiddie wading pool, so there isn't much in the way of "hiding places" for rare, obtainable, items. ESO is no exception, other than it is a very wide wading pool. RNG with low probability of drop is pretty much the only way that they can do this without engaging the higher functions in the collective studio brain.

My feeling is that if a player is grinding to get some rare drop, this is a bad thing. I get that this is engagement, and in Live Services engagement is love. Players should not feel that way, as it is an anti-pattern. It is counter productive. Game developers should realize this and come up with new ideas.

Ultimately, I do think it is better, and likely healthier, if the rare drops controlled by low probability RNG were more common. The rare collectable items should have a different method of discovery than RNG that encourages repeatedly grinding on the same thing.

OsUfi

SilverBride wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

The most soul destroying gaming experience I've ever had was the grind for the style pages during the 10th anniversary event. That was so the opposite of a celebration it made the event truly unforgettable.

That was absolutely the most horrific grind in any of the games I've played ever. The worst part is we begged for some conversation about it and not one single word was ever communicated back to us.

That was the "crafting" event, right? That one didn't even give many things out for crafting!

The Anniversary Jubilee Event.

Known to many under the alternative name, "skipped."

malistorr

The drop rate on many items is way too low. ZOS needs to adjust this now. I've done IA about 40-times and haven't got 1 single lead for the Torc to fall!

Amottica

SilverBride wrote: »

Keep RNG but... make it so every time a chest is opened or a boss defeated or whatever the source for the lead or item is, the RNG percentage increases.

So if there is a 10% chance to get said item from a delve boss for example, increase that to 15% the next time the boss is encountered, and so on. This will guarantee that the player isn't spending a year and still never getting the item.

They curated dungeon drops so why not this, too?

That would be a great idea if it were not a lot of info the servers would need to keep track of and server load is already an issue. That would be the main reason Zenimax would not implement it.

ChaoticWings3

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Keep RNG but... make it so every time a chest is opened or a boss defeated or whatever the source for the lead or item is, the RNG percentage increases.

So if there is a 10% chance to get said item from a delve boss for example, increase that to 15% the next time the boss is encountered, and so on. This will guarantee that the player isn't spending a year and still never getting the item.

They curated dungeon drops so why not this, too?

That would be a great idea if it were not a lot of info the servers would need to keep track of and server load is already an issue. That would be the main reason Zenimax would not implement it.

I honestly didn't think of that. I am having lead issues with Betnikh for the war drum and ayleid well. Spent a long time just running around that island with only getting the lead for the malacath band within about 80 enemies which is reasonable. Now after 300 to 500 enemies neither one of the furniture items are dropping and I'm also grabbing every node to try to get the well too. Nothing. I honestly think they accidently added a period in front of those lead drop rates (as an example instead of 10% it is .10%....kind of a big difference there). I suggested a similar thing but I can see how that could be an issue if it causes data inefficiency.

Still, considering we don't know how the drop rates operate for leads this was a reasonable conclusion. It may be better to increase the rates based on the difficulty of the lead itself. 80% for green 70% for blue (those 2 being mostly treasure map ones where the treasure maps are still not stackable......). 40% for purple. 20% for master level gold (mythic items mostly). 10% for ultimate level difficulty (some furniture items). I think these rates would fair and not next to impossible however I will reiterate from the post in the topic I made. We really do not know how the lead drop rates function so we can only really speculate how it works and speculate how to improve it.

FlopsyPrince

ChaoticWings3 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Keep RNG but... make it so every time a chest is opened or a boss defeated or whatever the source for the lead or item is, the RNG percentage increases.

So if there is a 10% chance to get said item from a delve boss for example, increase that to 15% the next time the boss is encountered, and so on. This will guarantee that the player isn't spending a year and still never getting the item.

They curated dungeon drops so why not this, too?

That would be a great idea if it were not a lot of info the servers would need to keep track of and server load is already an issue. That would be the main reason Zenimax would not implement it.

I honestly didn't think of that. I am having lead issues with Betnikh for the war drum and ayleid well. Spent a long time just running around that island with only getting the lead for the malacath band within about 80 enemies which is reasonable. Now after 300 to 500 enemies neither one of the furniture items are dropping and I'm also grabbing every node to try to get the well too. Nothing. I honestly think they accidently added a period in front of those lead drop rates (as an example instead of 10% it is .10%....kind of a big difference there). I suggested a similar thing but I can see how that could be an issue if it causes data inefficiency.

Still, considering we don't know how the drop rates operate for leads this was a reasonable conclusion. It may be better to increase the rates based on the difficulty of the lead itself. 80% for green 70% for blue (those 2 being mostly treasure map ones where the treasure maps are still not stackable......). 40% for purple. 20% for master level gold (mythic items mostly). 10% for ultimate level difficulty (some furniture items). I think these rates would fair and not next to impossible however I will reiterate from the post in the topic I made. We really do not know how the lead drop rates function so we can only really speculate how it works and speculate how to improve it.

Server load is irrelevant. Do you think scribing didn't impact "load"?

They have to work on the core issues, not ignore making the game better for such a claim.

ChaoticWings3

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ChaoticWings3 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Keep RNG but... make it so every time a chest is opened or a boss defeated or whatever the source for the lead or item is, the RNG percentage increases.

So if there is a 10% chance to get said item from a delve boss for example, increase that to 15% the next time the boss is encountered, and so on. This will guarantee that the player isn't spending a year and still never getting the item.

They curated dungeon drops so why not this, too?

That would be a great idea if it were not a lot of info the servers would need to keep track of and server load is already an issue. That would be the main reason Zenimax would not implement it.

I honestly didn't think of that. I am having lead issues with Betnikh for the war drum and ayleid well. Spent a long time just running around that island with only getting the lead for the malacath band within about 80 enemies which is reasonable. Now after 300 to 500 enemies neither one of the furniture items are dropping and I'm also grabbing every node to try to get the well too. Nothing. I honestly think they accidently added a period in front of those lead drop rates (as an example instead of 10% it is .10%....kind of a big difference there). I suggested a similar thing but I can see how that could be an issue if it causes data inefficiency.

Still, considering we don't know how the drop rates operate for leads this was a reasonable conclusion. It may be better to increase the rates based on the difficulty of the lead itself. 80% for green 70% for blue (those 2 being mostly treasure map ones where the treasure maps are still not stackable......). 40% for purple. 20% for master level gold (mythic items mostly). 10% for ultimate level difficulty (some furniture items). I think these rates would fair and not next to impossible however I will reiterate from the post in the topic I made. We really do not know how the lead drop rates function so we can only really speculate how it works and speculate how to improve it.

Server load is irrelevant. Do you think scribing didn't impact "load"?

They have to work on the core issues, not ignore making the game better for such a claim.

I agree. The issue as I said in the last sentence is we don't really know how the rng works within certain systems like leads. I think something needs to be done about the rng but because we lack the information in regards to how the system operates in terms of creating a solution we can only really consider possibilities. The overall increase would probably be the least invasive in terms of code changes since that would just adjust drop numbers rather than writing new code that could potentially break something else. If the system doesn't cause any inefficiencies then I would prefer the rate increases over time since that would eventually lead to a guarantee drop if someone's luck is really bad.

I tried looking up lead drop rates but I don't think anything was officially posted so I'm kind of in the dark as to how to give good suggestions regarding the system other than the ideas I have said.

alpha_synuclein

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ChaoticWings3 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Keep RNG but... make it so every time a chest is opened or a boss defeated or whatever the source for the lead or item is, the RNG percentage increases.

So if there is a 10% chance to get said item from a delve boss for example, increase that to 15% the next time the boss is encountered, and so on. This will guarantee that the player isn't spending a year and still never getting the item.

They curated dungeon drops so why not this, too?

That would be a great idea if it were not a lot of info the servers would need to keep track of and server load is already an issue. That would be the main reason Zenimax would not implement it.

I honestly didn't think of that. I am having lead issues with Betnikh for the war drum and ayleid well. Spent a long time just running around that island with only getting the lead for the malacath band within about 80 enemies which is reasonable. Now after 300 to 500 enemies neither one of the furniture items are dropping and I'm also grabbing every node to try to get the well too. Nothing. I honestly think they accidently added a period in front of those lead drop rates (as an example instead of 10% it is .10%....kind of a big difference there). I suggested a similar thing but I can see how that could be an issue if it causes data inefficiency.

Still, considering we don't know how the drop rates operate for leads this was a reasonable conclusion. It may be better to increase the rates based on the difficulty of the lead itself. 80% for green 70% for blue (those 2 being mostly treasure map ones where the treasure maps are still not stackable......). 40% for purple. 20% for master level gold (mythic items mostly). 10% for ultimate level difficulty (some furniture items). I think these rates would fair and not next to impossible however I will reiterate from the post in the topic I made. We really do not know how the lead drop rates function so we can only really speculate how it works and speculate how to improve it.

Server load is irrelevant. Do you think scribing didn't impact "load"?

They have to work on the core issues, not ignore making the game better for such a claim.

And before scribing we got stickerbook and curated drops. Let's not blame servers for everything.

old_scopie1945

SilverBride wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

The most soul destroying gaming experience I've ever had was the grind for the style pages during the 10th anniversary event. That was so the opposite of a celebration it made the event truly unforgettable.

That was absolutely the most horrific grind in any of the games I've played ever. The worst part is we begged for some conversation about it and not one single word was ever communicated back to us.

I totally agree, it nearly broke me. IMO the most ill conceived event that they could come up with. It was endless and soul destroying. I hate excessive grinding and RNG with a passion that I lose interest in playing, and it has a total negative effect on me.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here

FlopsyPrince

The lack of communication is the most annoying part of all this!

CGPsaint

I've attempted to farm all of the mask style pages over the years and I can say with a high degree of certainty that my account RNG is set to the absolute lowest setting. I've watched time and time and time again as everyone in my group has gotten style pages drops and I've gotten zilch. It's become a running theme with my circle of friends, because it's almost guaranteed that I will not get the drop. I've come to accept it, and I'll generally only run if my friends are running and need help. I would rather do something else and make gold so that I can just buy it from a guild trader without the frustration of missing out due to poor RNG.

FlopsyPrince

CGPsaint wrote: »

I've attempted to farm all of the mask style pages over the years and I can say with a high degree of certainty that my account RNG is set to the absolute lowest setting. I've watched time and time and time again as everyone in my group has gotten style pages drops and I've gotten zilch. It's become a running theme with my circle of friends, because it's almost guaranteed that I will not get the drop. I've come to accept it, and I'll generally only run if my friends are running and need help. I would rather do something else and make gold so that I can just buy it from a guild trader without the frustration of missing out due to poor RNG.

This result seems to hit some and is a big reason why even "true RNG" is not ideal. Having some form of "you will get it for sure if you run enough" is much better and is definitely not "just handing things out."

Has the new curation in U43 impacted this? (Or will it?)

Amottica

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ChaoticWings3 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Keep RNG but... make it so every time a chest is opened or a boss defeated or whatever the source for the lead or item is, the RNG percentage increases.

So if there is a 10% chance to get said item from a delve boss for example, increase that to 15% the next time the boss is encountered, and so on. This will guarantee that the player isn't spending a year and still never getting the item.

They curated dungeon drops so why not this, too?

That would be a great idea if it were not a lot of info the servers would need to keep track of and server load is already an issue. That would be the main reason Zenimax would not implement it.

I honestly didn't think of that. I am having lead issues with Betnikh for the war drum and ayleid well. Spent a long time just running around that island with only getting the lead for the malacath band within about 80 enemies which is reasonable. Now after 300 to 500 enemies neither one of the furniture items are dropping and I'm also grabbing every node to try to get the well too. Nothing. I honestly think they accidently added a period in front of those lead drop rates (as an example instead of 10% it is .10%....kind of a big difference there). I suggested a similar thing but I can see how that could be an issue if it causes data inefficiency.

Still, considering we don't know how the drop rates operate for leads this was a reasonable conclusion. It may be better to increase the rates based on the difficulty of the lead itself. 80% for green 70% for blue (those 2 being mostly treasure map ones where the treasure maps are still not stackable......). 40% for purple. 20% for master level gold (mythic items mostly). 10% for ultimate level difficulty (some furniture items). I think these rates would fair and not next to impossible however I will reiterate from the post in the topic I made. We really do not know how the lead drop rates function so we can only really speculate how it works and speculate how to improve it.

Server load is irrelevant. Do you think scribing didn't impact "load"?

They have to work on the core issues, not ignore making the game better for such a claim.

Server load is only an issue when it becomes a problem with the game's performance. Oh, wait!

There are notably better ways to address the issue than having the server track progress on every lead for every account. That would be a huge database on its own. Seriously, if the odds are 1:50, does someone want to keep those odds and face having to attempt some leads 50 times? Just seems like a bad idea overall.

Adjusting the chance, the dice roll, so the odds are more favorable is not only easier to implement but seems to be a lot better for us players.

FlopsyPrince

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

ChaoticWings3 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Keep RNG but... make it so every time a chest is opened or a boss defeated or whatever the source for the lead or item is, the RNG percentage increases.

So if there is a 10% chance to get said item from a delve boss for example, increase that to 15% the next time the boss is encountered, and so on. This will guarantee that the player isn't spending a year and still never getting the item.

They curated dungeon drops so why not this, too?

That would be a great idea if it were not a lot of info the servers would need to keep track of and server load is already an issue. That would be the main reason Zenimax would not implement it.

I honestly didn't think of that. I am having lead issues with Betnikh for the war drum and ayleid well. Spent a long time just running around that island with only getting the lead for the malacath band within about 80 enemies which is reasonable. Now after 300 to 500 enemies neither one of the furniture items are dropping and I'm also grabbing every node to try to get the well too. Nothing. I honestly think they accidently added a period in front of those lead drop rates (as an example instead of 10% it is .10%....kind of a big difference there). I suggested a similar thing but I can see how that could be an issue if it causes data inefficiency.

Still, considering we don't know how the drop rates operate for leads this was a reasonable conclusion. It may be better to increase the rates based on the difficulty of the lead itself. 80% for green 70% for blue (those 2 being mostly treasure map ones where the treasure maps are still not stackable......). 40% for purple. 20% for master level gold (mythic items mostly). 10% for ultimate level difficulty (some furniture items). I think these rates would fair and not next to impossible however I will reiterate from the post in the topic I made. We really do not know how the lead drop rates function so we can only really speculate how it works and speculate how to improve it.

Server load is irrelevant. Do you think scribing didn't impact "load"?

They have to work on the core issues, not ignore making the game better for such a claim.

Server load is only an issue when it becomes a problem with the game's performance. Oh, wait!

There are notably better ways to address the issue than having the server track progress on every lead for every account. That would be a huge database on its own. Seriously, if the odds are 1:50, does someone want to keep those odds and face having to attempt some leads 50 times? Just seems like a bad idea overall.

Adjusting the chance, the dice roll, so the odds are more favorable is not only easier to implement but seems to be a lot better for us players.

The server has to do many things. You can't add ANYTHING without increasing data and code on the server. Are you really insisting that the game can track all the other stuff it tracks, but just knowing if we have something and tracking progress is intolerable?

Ignoring this too much will kill the game. Perhaps not exactly this, but they are all most straws, or even logs, added to the back of the camel. That back will eventually break.

KekwLord3000

It's an MMO the whole idea is to grind for gear/collectibles fighting the RNG.
If you want something more casual that you can just login play without much investment go play shooter games.
RNG was made so games like MMO's keep players doing the same activities for years and not leaving after a few months.

Pelanora

Amottica wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Keep RNG but... make it so every time a chest is opened or a boss defeated or whatever the source for the lead or item is, the RNG percentage increases.

So if there is a 10% chance to get said item from a delve boss for example, increase that to 15% the next time the boss is encountered, and so on. This will guarantee that the player isn't spending a year and still never getting the item.

They curated dungeon drops so why not this, too?

That would be a great idea if it were not a lot of info the servers would need to keep track of and server load is already an issue. That would be the main reason Zenimax would not implement it.

It's not about server load, it's about changing what the chest 'knows', from random generation where it doesn't need to 'know' what's generated, or what has been, or what needs to be, to having to generate something specific. The info is already in the server, it's not at the point of collection- the chest, (or other form of drop) Zos has to recode how the chests/drops work. That's all.

They explained this in a video about the IA chests.

ChaoticWings3

KekwLord3000 wrote: »

It's an MMO the whole idea is to grind for gear/collectibles fighting the RNG.
If you want something more casual that you can just login play without much investment go play shooter games.
RNG was made so games like MMO's keep players doing the same activities for years and not leaving after a few months.

I honestly don't mind a bit of a grind or rng (I have half the battle trophies in star ocean the last hope which took me over 400 hours to get and I'm still working on for the platinum of that game) but the issue that a lot on the board experience is rng that takes way too much reasonable time to obtain some things without an alternative. For example, I can technically grind motif pages to apply to my collection by doing dailies or vet hard mode dungeon runs. I'm not exactly in the mood to do this everyday however and in the case of dungeons my group may not be nearly as skilled or willing to do the hardmode for the dungeon to get the motif drop. However, motifs can be sold in guild vendors which allows for an alternative means of obtaining motifs. I find getting gold easier so I've been mostly buying all the motifs at vendors.

For things like leads though there isn't really an alternative other than the infinite archive and infinite archive only puts out 2 gold leads a week and not any other kind of lead. So if you are having bad luck getting a purple lead like I am with the ayleid well you just have to keep doing it until that random number generator for drops finally is kind to you. I wish there was another way to obtain leads because after about an hour or two I don't really want to do the drop task anymore but because I've been doing it for so long I have to keep doing it (sunk cost fallacy).

This is the reason why the anniversary event weapon style pages were extremely unpopular. It was FOMO because once the event ended you don't really know when or if those style pages were coming back, they were untradeable so you are FORCED to do the event task in an almost mind numbing manner if you really wanted them (speaking from experience since I got all 5 of those things), and the chances of the drop were either between a 10% chance and a 0.01% chance. It took over 300 geysers to get that staff which unfortunately was the main thing I wanted....geysers take about 3 to 5 minutes depending on how many players are there and there is delay between the waves of enemies so this was very painful.

malistorr

Ran another few rounds of IA last night. I've earned about 100k of the IA currency and have about half the gear from there (all classes sets). I still haven't had a single lead for the torc drop which is the ONLY reason why I would run the uber-boring IA in the first place.

I don't understand the thought process of the people deciding the drop rate for this item. Get players to want to play your game through actually good and entertaining content, not through hiding a single item behind a grind-wall that forces people to do the same horribly boring and repetitive content over and over again for weeks!

WTH

FlopsyPrince

KekwLord3000 wrote: »

It's an MMO the whole idea is to grind for gear/collectibles fighting the RNG.
If you want something more casual that you can just login play without much investment go play shooter games.
RNG was made so games like MMO's keep players doing the same activities for years and not leaving after a few months.

Wrong!

It is not about grinding who knows how long. It is about a reasonable level of grind. Not none for some and forever for others.

Once again the key point is missed.

FlopsyPrince

malistorr wrote: »

Ran another few rounds of IA last night. I've earned about 100k of the IA currency and have about half the gear from there (all classes sets). I still haven't had a single lead for the torc drop which is the ONLY reason why I would run the uber-boring IA in the first place.

I don't understand the thought process of the people deciding the drop rate for this item. Get players to want to play your game through actually good and entertaining content, not through hiding a single item behind a grind-wall that forces people to do the same horribly boring and repetitive content over and over again for weeks!

WTH

I remember being "interviewed" when I stopped WoW years ago. The agenda said "but isn't the grind the thing" and I completely disagreed as I got tired on doing things over and over, especially on alts, for older stuff, such as older recipes. I wanted a way to earn those (not have them handed out freely as some claim) but to not take an uncertain amount of time.

It is not a "get it freely" or "grind forever" choice. Something in the middle is appropriate, yet so few arguing against changes here seem to claim it is only one of those 2 choices.'

AND hiding leads behind IA keeps it from many of us. I have only been in there for the Endeavors, but I am not awed even so. (And it is sad that the quarterly update features "more of the same" there as a highlight point!