Dungeon quests

SilverBride

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

What do speed running players need from others in many dungeons? They may be able to solo the entire thing.

A player can't just walk into a dungeon and call it a random daily... they have to queue to join a group for it... so they can't solo it if they want the bonuses, even if they are capable of doing so.

ChaoticWings3

SilverBride wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

What do speed running players need from others in many dungeons? They may be able to solo the entire thing.

A player can't just walk into a dungeon and call it a random daily... they have to queue to join a group for it... so they can't solo it if they want the bonuses, even if they are capable of doing so.

I also don't think it would be a good idea to allow solo randoms too since a lot of dungeons require at least 2 people to run and if you allow for solo randoms finding a group to do a quick dungeon run for undaunted keys and set pieces will become harder. I'm a tank main with really bad dps (best I got was 50k) so not having players that can melt mobs will make tanks like me feel like the dungeon is taking forever.

These kinds of topics kind of pop up about every month or two from what I'm seeing. There is defiantly a demand to be able to experience the story properly (I'm one of them but I also have guildmates that help me out with them). This is sort of why a solo dungeon difficulty was proposed and is being considered by the developers at the moment. The idea (at least from what I can gather) is to turn off the instant kill mechanics for the mode and change group puzzles to one switch however rewards dropped by enemies are severely reduced (gold drops are like 1 gold per drop) and no set pieces drop. However players would be able to experience the story and enjoy it. Essentially it doesn't give an incentive to grind this mode to encourage doing the harder content with the group but keeps an option available for those that want to experience the quest. If we don't want to give the skill point for completing this story quest on this difficulty we could also just leave this difficulty mode with a repeatable quest for a 90 gold reward without a skill point so any player can experience it at any time.

I feel this would solve this issue pretty well since players that are trying to experience the story for the first time won't feel rushed and the other group members that want to go through the dungeon in 10 minutes for the daily rewards will have their group on the same page.

KV_Tootn

Mostly never had a problem to do the dungeon quest. Always at start typed :"Hello . Need to do the quest".. Thats it.
And when we do it with 3 people(frieds) and some randome comes we always ask if he done the quest or secret bosses, if no we take time to do it with no rush.. Its just a discipline thing some of users wont do.
Once in a while there is someone who wants to rush and show how hes pro and dont answer, we let them go to boss and die there , then kick him thats it. Serves as a leson.

davidtk

davidtk wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

How were you already in a battle the second you entered? That isn't how it works.

TBH its quite simple.
Slow connection and ESO on the HDD.
I know person personally who TPying to the dungeon (or any zone, house, trial) MINUTES not seconds like others and after his character appear, he still have loading screen.
It's not unbelievable. It's just that not everyone has the same playing field, and this game is pretty demanding on HW and internet quality.
So if it is the same or similar case... OP just ended loading screen in the middle of the fight.

I will add one question... (okay two)
Will you wait for friend with mentioned conditions when you go to rnd as group? When you know that person will port to instance about 1 -2 minutes? Plus about minute loading screen when he will NOT see anything include chat?
Probably YES because he is friend

Will you wait for unknown PUG person with that mentioned conditions? When you enter dungeon with two others and fourth person still missing even after minute? And if you wait he will not respond to anything next minute?
Probably NO and you will just run throught dungeon.

Don't know if the OP have these conditions and porting minutes or not. It is just more question about doing rnds with pug...

Orbital78

Pevey wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

Truly veteran players don't do dungeons with random groups for transmutes. They form a group before queuing or source transmutes in other ways.

Of course truly veteran players do random groups for transmutes. It's the quickest, most efficient way to get them. I don't know anyone going for transmutes that makes a group first.

It's way more efficient to do the bare minimum for tier 1 rewards int he 30 day campaigns on all toons. It takes about half a day to do this for 20 toons. Each month, 1000 transmutes. I have probably 200 geodes with 50 transmutes each sitting on all my toons from doing this. Much more efficient than RNDs. You would have to do 100 RNDs to get those 1000 transmutes. Ouch.

Vet players also get transmutes without even thinking about them. From trials coffers, bgs, etc.

This is what I have switched to doing, it is often more hassle to do a random vet than to just stock up on t1 geodes. I don't really enjoy pvp that much, but it isn't really that hard to pvd or repair. With the price drops in motifs and such, it is even less rewarding to clear harder content as a farm, which was the only reason I really did vets without friends.

Orbital78

Dax_Draconis wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

And look - it's right there in the Group Finder: options that include story and speed run.

You don't even need to be in guilds or use chat to look for like-minded individuals.

It would be nice if speed runners would use it.

Be careful what you wish for people already complain about long queues. I don't think anyone is going to really bother using the group finder to speed run in normal anyway. TBH it is rare to see anyone use GF for dungeons in general, but if I do see a listing it is usually to do pledges or farm style pages.

alpha_synuclein

Ezhh wrote: »

People need to accept that this is the system we have for dungeons. No matter what any one of us thinks is right or wrong, all any of us can do is find the least painful way to work within it, or ways to not engage with it.

No, we do not need to accept something that we don't like.
Of course, we are not in power to change things here. But if we're unhappy with the system (and we very obviously are) the only way for us to make a difference is to voice our views.

Do I believe that this will actually make a difference? Well.... I'm not that naive...
But if we speak up and they won't listen, that's on them
If we never try to speak up, that's on us...


So, increase the number of transmutes from trials. Increase the number of transmutes from pledges. Increase the number of transmutes from vet stuff vs normal. Normal dungeons should be training grounds for new players, not farming spots for vets. Incentivize vets to go where they belong.

old_scopie1945

ChaoticWings3 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

What do speed running players need from others in many dungeons? They may be able to solo the entire thing.

A player can't just walk into a dungeon and call it a random daily... they have to queue to join a group for it... so they can't solo it if they want the bonuses, even if they are capable of doing so.

I also don't think it would be a good idea to allow solo randoms too since a lot of dungeons require at least 2 people to run and if you allow for solo randoms finding a group to do a quick dungeon run for undaunted keys and set pieces will become harder. I'm a tank main with really bad dps (best I got was 50k) so not having players that can melt mobs will make tanks like me feel like the dungeon is taking forever.

These kinds of topics kind of pop up about every month or two from what I'm seeing. There is defiantly a demand to be able to experience the story properly (I'm one of them but I also have guildmates that help me out with them). This is sort of why a solo dungeon difficulty was proposed and is being considered by the developers at the moment. The idea (at least from what I can gather) is to turn off the instant kill mechanics for the mode and change group puzzles to one switch however rewards dropped by enemies are severely reduced (gold drops are like 1 gold per drop) and no set pieces drop. However players would be able to experience the story and enjoy it. Essentially it doesn't give an incentive to grind this mode to encourage doing the harder content with the group but keeps an option available for those that want to experience the quest. If we don't want to give the skill point for completing this story quest on this difficulty we could also just leave this difficulty mode with a repeatable quest for a 90 gold reward without a skill point so any player can experience it at any time.

I feel this would solve this issue pretty well since players that are trying to experience the story for the first time won't feel rushed and the other group members that want to go through the dungeon in 10 minutes for the daily rewards will have their group on the same page.

I agree with what you say apart from one aspect. I think a skill point should be rewarded in this case. The point is that doing the quest earns you the skill point, eg it is all part of the story mode. Some of the quests are straight forward and others have a lot of dialog, and that is the problem. The Vaults of Madness being a prime example were even skipping the dialog is quite involved. Therefore the whole point of a story mode is to obtain a skill point with no hassle, the story itself is an added bonus. It only has to be done once, in which case minimum rewards are acceptable which IMO is neither here nor there. It seems a great idea for those that want to do the quest solo or with a friend.

Dragonnord

You go with a RANDOM group and expect things to NOT GO RANDOM?

You know what RANDOM means, right?

If so, go with friends, guild mates, create a premade group in your clan, in Discord, create a specific questing run in the group finder, etc.

You have plenty of ways to NOT GO RANDOM, however, you GO RANDOM, things GET RANDOM and you complain?
 

Blood_again

fedouva wrote: »

That's the point. There is zero respect for new players, everyone thinks only about themselves, but anyone can wait 5-10 seconds, but almost no one needs it, while I spend one second to see what levels are playing with me to see if they need to wait or not.

If you need respect for your goals from group mates, try to run dungeons with your friends.
I truly hate this kind of advice, but it is the best you can do to achieve the things you talk about.
Even running with guildmates doesn't guarantee that your personal goals and actions will be respected in the run. 50/50
When you join a random group, just don't expect much, because they are random players.

If you keep running with randoms, writing short in the chat is the best way to get attention to your goals. There is a chance, but no assurance, that it will be respected.
If you're silent, nobody knows what you want. Again, they are random players with their own goals and their own points of view on this run. Don't expect they read your thoughts, just communicate.
So I insist that writing in group chat is good advice for your situation, if you keep running random.

DenverRalphy

Dragonnord wrote: »

You go with a RANDOM group and expect things to NOT GO RANDOM?

You know what RANDOM means, right?

If so, go with friends, guild mates, create a premade group in your clan, in Discord, create a specific questing run in the group finder, etc.

You have plenty of ways to NOT GO RANDOM, however, you GO RANDOM, things GET RANDOM and you complain?
 

Apparently you're not aware that not everyone in the party queued for a Random dungeon. It's only random for the player/s that chose to go random. If 1, 2, or all 3 of the other players queued up for that specific dungeon and nobody else has, then the rest of the spots are filled with players who queued for Random.

That's the primary purpose of the Random Daily, and the sole purpose for the reward the player/s who queued up random receive. The reward is supposed to be a Thank You to the players who >Gasp!< set aside time to run a dungeon to help others in need. Before the random daily dungeon finder came to be, it could take ages to find a full group to run a dungeon.

AvalonRanger

DenverRalphy wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

fedouva wrote: »

Just been in the Crypt of Hearts dungeon and couldn't take the back because while me and two low level players were killing the initial mobs, a 2000 point champion player ran in and activated the first boss. I think players go to dungeons just to run them, but not for a compelling story and it's sad. I certainly have an idea how to fix it, but no one will like forced dialogues without text) Just for today my impressions of hiking in the dungeons because of such sittuatsii spoiled.Also I will not be able to complete some quests, because the levers and other devices activated other players because of what I do not count the completion of these tasks, this is also very sad ... What do you think about this?

1, If you want to enjoy story reading in the dungeon quest, then don't use random grouping.
GO TO THE GROUPING TOOLS.

2, If you just want skill point by finishing dungeon quest, just say "I have quest" at the group chat.
Most of people accept your situation except jerk.

3, You should not expect slow pace running or deep exploring with the random team.

By that same token, a single speed runner should not expect it to be a fast pace run either. Just like in the OP's example. One player decided to zoom off and speed run and trigger the bosses while the other 3 were like "what the wha?"

Last 2 weeks, ZOS were doing PVP event. So people rush to finish daily mission.
And, also ZOS added scribing quest line. So people were also rushing RND mission
just only for getting scribing reward.

I thought that ZOS's game planner is really poor creation skill.

Ezhh

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

People need to accept that this is the system we have for dungeons. No matter what any one of us thinks is right or wrong, all any of us can do is find the least painful way to work within it, or ways to not engage with it.

No, we do not need to accept something that we don't like.
Of course, we are not in power to change things here. But if we're unhappy with the system (and we very obviously are) the only way for us to make a difference is to voice our views.

Do I believe that this will actually make a difference? Well.... I'm not that naive...
But if we speak up and they won't listen, that's on them
If we never try to speak up, that's on us...


So, increase the number of transmutes from trials. Increase the number of transmutes from pledges. Increase the number of transmutes from vet stuff vs normal. Normal dungeons should be training grounds for new players, not farming spots for vets. Incentivize vets to go where they belong.

If you'd quoted what I said in full, my very next line was saying people should voice their thoughts on this to zos. Either way you do need to accept that this is the system we have now. If I had meant you should accept it stays this way forever, I wouldn't suggest giving them feedback.

fedouva

I didn't expect this discussion to turn into a daily argument.)

Dax_Draconis

fedouva wrote: »

I didn't expect this discussion to turn into a daily argument.)

New here?

alpha_synuclein

Ezhh wrote: »

If you'd quoted what I said in full, my very next line was saying people should voice their thoughts on this to zos. Either way you do need to accept that this is the system we have now. If I had meant you should accept it stays this way forever, I wouldn't suggest giving them feedback.

OK, here is the full quote.

quote="Ezhh;c-8164908"]
People need to accept that this is the system we have for dungeons. No matter what any one of us thinks is right or wrong, all any of us can do is find the least painful way to work within it, or ways to not engage with it. Anyone who doesn't like this situation can always try writing support tickets to ask them to reconsider or change things. I'd 100% support a quest mode for dungeons, but I can't see them ever doing it.
[/quote]

My response was triggered by the notion of accepting things "for now" (which I still disagree with, temporary crap is still crap...) and the bold part, which I have read as "voice your concerns in a ticket that only ZOS will (not) read, instead of complaining on a public forum". I have a very slim faith in creating such tickets, and even less in the possibility of inspiring a meaningful reaction this way. So I would still argue that it is more worthwhile to discuss this in public space.
If that is not what you had in mind, aplogies for misinterpretation.

ESO_player123

fedouva wrote: »

I didn't expect this discussion to turn into a daily argument.)

This thread took the same shape as all other threads that were written before on this particular topic.

AzuraFan

I think having quests in dungeons was a fundamentally bad design decision by ZOS. If dungeons didn't contain quests (especially the DLC dungeon quests, which often tie in to the upcoming chapter story), there wouldn't be a problem. But they put quests into dungeons, and they had dungeons reward transmutes, as well. Just bad design all around.

Ezhh

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

I have a very slim faith in creating such tickets, and even less in the possibility of inspiring a meaningful reaction this way. So I would still argue that it is more worthwhile to discuss this in public space.
If that is not what you had in mind, aplogies for misinterpretation.

It's all good. Sadly I don't have much faith in them improving the situation either, but these topics have been coming up as long as I've played, and nothing ever seems to change. I would really like them to listen and address some of these kinds of issues, but how to get through to them is a mystery at this point.

alpha_synuclein

Ezhh wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

I have a very slim faith in creating such tickets, and even less in the possibility of inspiring a meaningful reaction this way. So I would still argue that it is more worthwhile to discuss this in public space.
If that is not what you had in mind, aplogies for misinterpretation.

It's all good. Sadly I don't have much faith in them improving the situation either, but these topics have been coming up as long as I've played, and nothing ever seems to change. I would really like them to listen and address some of these kinds of issues, but how to get through to them is a mystery at this point.

At least here we can talk to each other.
If that's any consolation...

FlopsyPrince

ESO_player123 wrote: »

fedouva wrote: »

I didn't expect this discussion to turn into a daily argument.)

This thread took the same shape as all other threads that were written before on this particular topic.

It is a common theme on almost any topic on almost any game's forums.

(Note that at your own risk though.)

Dragonnord

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You go with a RANDOM group and expect things to NOT GO RANDOM?

You know what RANDOM means, right?

If so, go with friends, guild mates, create a premade group in your clan, in Discord, create a specific questing run in the group finder, etc.

You have plenty of ways to NOT GO RANDOM, however, you GO RANDOM, things GET RANDOM and you complain?
 

Apparently you're not aware that not everyone in the party queued for a Random dungeon. It's only random for the player/s that chose to go random. If 1, 2, or all 3 of the other players queued up for that specific dungeon and nobody else has, then the rest of the spots are filled with players who queued for Random.

That's the primary purpose of the Random Daily, and the sole purpose for the reward the player/s who queued up random receive. The reward is supposed to be a Thank You to the players who >Gasp!< set aside time to run a dungeon to help others in need. Before the random daily dungeon finder came to be, it could take ages to find a full group to run a dungeon.

With RANDOM I meant that you are playing with random people (not a random dungeon) and if you choose to play with random groups, random things will happen.
 

katanagirl1

Dragonnord wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

You go with a RANDOM group and expect things to NOT GO RANDOM?

You know what RANDOM means, right?

If so, go with friends, guild mates, create a premade group in your clan, in Discord, create a specific questing run in the group finder, etc.

You have plenty of ways to NOT GO RANDOM, however, you GO RANDOM, things GET RANDOM and you complain?
 

Apparently you're not aware that not everyone in the party queued for a Random dungeon. It's only random for the player/s that chose to go random. If 1, 2, or all 3 of the other players queued up for that specific dungeon and nobody else has, then the rest of the spots are filled with players who queued for Random.

That's the primary purpose of the Random Daily, and the sole purpose for the reward the player/s who queued up random receive. The reward is supposed to be a Thank You to the players who >Gasp!< set aside time to run a dungeon to help others in need. Before the random daily dungeon finder came to be, it could take ages to find a full group to run a dungeon.

With RANDOM I meant that you are playing with random people (not a random dungeon) and if you choose to play with random groups, random things will happen.
 

Sometimes that is the only choice you have.

ChaoticWings3

old_scopie1945 wrote: »

I agree with what you say apart from one aspect. I think a skill point should be rewarded in this case. The point is that doing the quest earns you the skill point, eg it is all part of the story mode. Some of the quests are straight forward and others have a lot of dialog, and that is the problem. The Vaults of Madness being a prime example were even skipping the dialog is quite involved. Therefore the whole point of a story mode is to obtain a skill point with no hassle, the story itself is an added bonus. It only has to be done once, in which case minimum rewards are acceptable which IMO is neither here nor there. It seems a great idea for those that want to do the quest solo or with a friend.

I thought about it and agree with you on that. Most dungeons are about the length of a zone main quest and the game gives out skill points for beating certain public dungeon bosses. Not to mention it wouldn't really cure the issue completely if the skill point was separated since there are multiple steps for the quest throughout the dungeon. Hopefully if they choose to do the solo difficulty they will keep the skill point in.

Amottica

SilverBride wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

What do speed running players need from others in many dungeons? They may be able to solo the entire thing.

A player can't just walk into a dungeon and call it a random daily... they have to queue to join a group for it... so they can't solo it if they want the bonuses, even if they are capable of doing so.

They can almost do that. They can queue either with friends or alts and then solo the dungeon. I know people with alts that while they are technically 4 manning it, they are clearing the dungeon with only one of their accounts, and the other 4 are along for the XP. Myself, I do not have the time to play more than one account. Not sure how some have that much time.

SxFurey

Introducing a quest mode for dungeons is the 'bottom of the barrel' level priority for ZOS and they'll be hard pressed to allocate resources and time for this. They have much better things to do, like making new items to sell in the crown store, for example.

Kelenan7368

They need to make the dungeon quest repeatable and mandatory for running the dungeon. This would eliminate people getting screwed on the quests and also allow people to actually enjoy the content the devs created instead of the race to the end in the quickest possible way.
Though this will annoy the veteran gamers that only care about rewards and not content. BOO HOO!

TimeWizard

Here is my take. I do dungeons a lot. I do them for quests, I do them for pledges, I do them for gear, and I do them for rnd transmutes.
If I am doing it for the quest, I would be frustrated if I was unable to complete said quest because other members of the dungeon group were speeding through. To stop this from happening, I type something about needing the quest the instant I spawn in. Most times people will slow down in order to let me complete it.
If doing them for transmutes or gear, my goal is to complete the dungeon as fast as I possibly can. I will only slow down if another player tells me they need the quest.
If doing them for pledges, its either or depending whether or not I have the quest.

The majority of people I have run into doing dungeons want to complete them as fast as possible. They are there for the end result, not the dungeon itself.
Most people will slow down to allow someone to complete a quest, but only upon being told that someone has the quest, and generally only enough for said person to complete the quest.
There are some people I have run into who are there for the quest. Sometimes they state this, and are accomodated, often they don't and just complain about speedrunners and kick the member who wants the fast complete from the group.

If you want to truly enjoy the quest and story for the dungeon, I suggest you make a preformed group, either with guildies/friends or through the Group Finder. A story mode for dungeons would be preferable for everyone, but we do not have this system.

Basically, no one can read your mind and intentions, so say if you need people to slow down for the quest.
Someone speedrunning a dungeon has every right to do so, and so does the person doing the quest.

barney2525

OsUfi wrote: »

fedouva wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

Did you ask them to slow down?

On the rare occasion I set foot inside a dungeon I'll usually ask "fast or slow". I'll usually consider fast to be default due to the RND rewards.

I mean, I can't even take a task or fulfill certain conditions sometimes because either another player is doing it or I just can't keep up with everyone else.

I mean, did you ask them to slow down?

If you did and they ignored you, then they are muppets and I hope they endure a mild inconvenience upon their day.

If you didn't, then they will assume everyone's task is Random Daily Dungeon for transmutes, Exp, and gold or Undaunted keys.

I think you are waaaaay too generous.

You are asking me to believe a 2000 CP has no idea what they are doing in the dungeon, and what them running ahead will do to mess up the other players. Gimme a break.

Most people don't bother asking things of such players, because most people don't want to hear the string of curses and insults that many times are the response.

FlopsyPrince

I try to note I am "doing the quest" on the PC. I rarely do on the PS5 because it is much more painful to type that in with the PS5 controller.