Why adjust arctic blast but not polar wind?

TechMaybeHic

In stead of the weirdness they are doing to arctic wind, they should just make it the heal that also heals teammates and scale off offensive power; and make the high health one just a self heal. Tank or healer choice rather than trying to make one both tank and heal, and the other some conditional cluster of identity crisis.

xylena_lazarow

SkaiFaith wrote: »

I'll just throw this here "casually":
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/662226/absurd-damage-numbers-in-battleground

There's nothing in that thread?

Cross healing needs to be rebalanced across the board. They could start by removing the ally HoT and/or making Polar choose between yourself and your ally like every other burst heal. Just don't overnerf it, Warden DD needs to be able to survive, otherwise you turn the whole class into a dedicated brick.

Theist_VII

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno
Can either of you check this thread out?

Pretty great points being made by @React.

Tanks should not be proficient healers, and healers should not be proficient tanks. While Polar Wind is the worst offender; we need more balancing done to address this problem.

If it was possible to hunt unprotected healers, stalemates would break, and it would give purpose to classes that are horrible at objective based game modes.

React

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

In stead of the weirdness they are doing to arctic wind, they should just make it the heal that also heals teammates and scale off offensive power; and make the high health one just a self heal. Tank or healer choice rather than trying to make one both tank and heal, and the other some conditional cluster of identity crisis.

Arctic should be the stun and dot that it's been for a while. It functions well in that role.

The class already has an instant AOE burst heal with soothing spores (which has some room for improvement), and a delayed burst heal in budding seeds. It doesn't need more skills changed into burst heals, just improve the main ally burst heal (soothing spores) and make polar wind a self heal only.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

I'll just throw this here "casually":
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/662226/absurd-damage-numbers-in-battleground

There's nothing in that thread?

Cross healing needs to be rebalanced across the board. They could start by removing the ally HoT and/or making Polar choose between yourself and your ally like every other burst heal. Just don't overnerf it, Warden DD needs to be able to survive, otherwise you turn the whole class into a dedicated brick.

It really doesn't need to be anymore complicated than simply changing polar to a self heal. At that point if they want, they can improve soothing spores.

Warden DD with 31k hp and the soul heal with vitality on it is quite possibly the tankiest DD in the game, on par with current magsorc and arcanist (which does no damage). I've been playing rally/acuity/balorgh/saints on mine and have absolutely 0 issues with survivability, without using polar wind. That build kills good players fairly easily.

Theist_VII

We need to remove the heal ally portion of Polar Wind because it’s based on your health, not theirs.

Then I would suggest as a change to the heal-tank problem, severing your healing stat from weapon/spell damage and instead have it scale exclusively from either max stamina or max magicka with healing done/taken modifiers.

Bubosh

you missing out the real strongest burst heal of warden and that kinda tells more than enough about your warden knowledge tbh. Polar wind is not the strongest burst heal in the game neither the strongest burst heal of warden. Pls take a closer look about the class itself and i suggest you to play warden one time with budding seed, that skill can burst heal probably 6-12 (not sure about the exact amount but its more than 2 :P ) ppl in one click if not even more if there is no limit on it, it is probably the cheapest burst heal in the game has bigger range than polar too and burst heals every single person inside of it and pls dont come up now with "ohh you have to be in that circle" ..... xD no front but i just dont get why you are pointing out polar wind when there is a even stronger burst heal which needs adjustments first tbh on wardens kit alone the ressource cost of budding seed is a joke compared to polar

React

Bubosh wrote: »

you missing out the real strongest burst heal of warden and that kinda tells more than enough about your warden knowledge tbh. Polar wind is not the strongest burst heal in the game neither the strongest burst heal of warden. Pls take a closer look about the class itself and i suggest you to play warden one time with budging seed, that skill can burst heal probably 6-12 (not sure about the exact amount but its more than 2 :P ) ppl in one click if not even more if there is no limit on it, it is probably the cheapest burst heal in the game has bigger range than polar too and burst heals every single person inside of it and pls dont come up now with "ohh you have to be in that circle" ..... xD

Budding is very strong. I use it for small scale. It's not as problematic as polar wind.

The largest issue with polar is that it scales on HP thus encouraging people to stack HP until a point where they cannot possibly killed without overwhelming odds, while providing the strongest burst heal + HOT in PVP. HP scaling defense like this should not exist, or should not be ally targeted if they do.

It's pretty simple, really.

Bubosh

same as reading tooltip of budding seed and understanding the distance range difference of it and that it heals per sec over time is pretty simple to understand aswell and especially the difference of cost for the power of what budding seed does to multiple ppl not only 2 its simple math yes react you should realize that cause you are a good player i guess ^^

React

Bubosh wrote: »

same as reading tooltip of budding seed and understanding the distance range difference of it and that it heals per sec over time is pretty simple to understand aswell and especially the difference of cost for the power of what budding seed does to multiple ppl not only 2 its simple math yes react you should realize that cause you are a good player i guess ^^

I'm not concerned with large scale PVP. There are much more egregious issues like HOT stacking/damage shields/buff sets that completely eclipse polar or budding once you're in a large group.

I'm concerned with this heal scaling on HP and enabling 45k healers to exist whilst being completely unkillable.

Polar wind will heal the caster and one other person drastically more than budding with 45k hp. Both the burst heal and the HOT. I wouldn't even be surprised if the HOT on a 45k HP polar wind is more than the combined value of the HOT + harvest synergy on budding.

If you take away this cross heal, suddenly those 45k hp healers are only providing one burst heal + HOT rather than two burst heals + HOTs (assuming budding + polar, not even considering other abilities on their bars). It will be a drastic decrease to the effectiveness of high HP healers, and might have the added effect of them lowering their HP to gain more stats for the offensive scaling cross heals, which should make killing them realistic again.

I think the vast majority of people in PVP who do not play a build like that themselves would welcome this change.

Major_Toughness

If you are outnumbered and getting to low HP on a Warden, are you going to use Budding Seeds or Polar Wind.

Bearing in mind it takes 2 GCDs to get Budding Seeds "burst" heal.

No, I'm going to cast Polar Wind, maybe even twice in that time, and get twice as much healing than Budding Seed would do.

madman65

Look, ESO wants you to use the new scripts. If they nerf a very good instant heal(Arctic Wind) then you will have go to the new script. I love the Arctic Wind on my Warden because it coincides with my rotation for burst damage. Believe me i`m not happy but ESO is going to do this to get us to run the new script. VERY SAD ESO!

Bubosh

@Major_Toughness if you are good on warden you wont let budding go off its constant up and there for automatically even healing you most of times especially if you are two wardens with seed skill its automatic pretty much all 5-6 sec burst healing you and all allies in it its way more problematic than polar in my opinoin if looking at the full skill cost power and so on compared to polar and its range which isnt even 12meters anymore with this delayed server ^^ ( and if your budding seed is up non stop you only having to use one global cd to get the burst heal out of it btw so its no sense that argument rly )

Bubosh

nerf polar and you will see all wardens with budding seed thats just what im trying to tell here im not saying polar is not op it definitely also should get tuned down but if you are just nerfing polar every single warden will start using budding seed and that is something you definitely wont like to see at all cause it will be worse than polar "meta". Budding seed right now is just not used as much cause its little tricky to hold it up constant and cause it feels little clunky but other than that its more powerful in my opinion and you will see if polar gets nerfed i promise you all sort of wardense will start getting used to budding skill and then you will face every day warden duos or trios with 3x budding skill gl trying to kill that while its healing them per second 1,5k crit heals and burst heals for 15k+/- multiple targets on a rally/phoenix/coil basic set up. I use that my self i get 15k burst heals out of seed and pretty much same polar burst heal with 41k hp and the overtime heal isnt rly big difference either only that seed is healing per second and not like polar only every 2 seconds and thats big thing too healing over time per second always wins against every 2 seconds in my opinion. The game needs a massive overhaul about pretty much almost every burst heal and especially regen/crit dmg balancing, regen is one of the biggest issues its too easy with the free stats which we got a long time ago thats why regen dmg and ofc also being tanky got that easy nowadays. For example adjust easy access to regen and regen in general and you wont see these wardens spamming polar anymore at all but budding seed costs little more than 2k this skill is beyond broken honestly, most of times im not having to press my polar even anymore cause my budding runs out and automatically fills my hp up to full again by running out ITSELF and this "itself" is very problematic in this game.

Skjaldbjorn

Telos_Tim wrote: »

We need to remove the heal ally portion of Polar Wind because it’s based on your health, not theirs.

Then I would suggest as a change to the heal-tank problem, severing your healing stat from weapon/spell damage and instead have it scale exclusively from either max stamina or max magicka with healing done/taken modifiers.

If you're referring to having Polar Wind scale off stam or mag, no. Not even a little bit. Warden tanks in PVE are already pretty dog. This would kill them completely.

Theist_VII

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Telos_Tim wrote: »

We need to remove the heal ally portion of Polar Wind because it’s based on your health, not theirs.

Then I would suggest as a change to the heal-tank problem, severing your healing stat from weapon/spell damage and instead have it scale exclusively from either max stamina or max magicka with healing done/taken modifiers.

If you're referring to having Polar Wind scale off stam or mag, no. Not even a little bit. Warden tanks in PVE are already pretty dog. This would kill them completely.

Not at all what I’m saying.

Heals that currently scale off of weapon/spell damage, should instead scale off of your highest resource. Skills that currently scale off of health are fine, when they are selfish heals.

The fact that players can build high health, and damage, while also being able to heal insane values, is a massive oversight in terms of balance.

If you break the three primary staples of combat down into survivability, damage, and healing, here’s how a build should look.

• High Survivability, Normal Damage, Low Healing
• High Survivability, Low Damage, Normal Healing
• Normal Survivability, High Damage, Low Healing
• Normal Survability, Low Damage, High Healing
• Low Survivability, Normal Damage, High Healing
• Low Survivability, High Damage, Normal Healing

There will never be balance in this game when any class or build can look like any of these…

• High A, High B, Normal C
• High A, High B, Low C
• High A, Normal B, Normal C

MATH_COW

ToRelax wrote: »

The ability to heal your group shouldn't scale with your own tankieness. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Imagine not only being able to make an absolutely unkillable tank in PvP, and then being able to heal better than other group healers with that tank.

That’s what Polar Wind enables.

If it only healed yourself, then you would be an unkillable tank, something that has class parity, not an unstoppable force of trolling in PvP stalling out every Battleground lobby into 3-5million damage parse sessions where nobody kills each other in Deathmatch.

"Heal your group" "Heal better than other group healers"
Really there we got people that doesn't know what they are talking.
You know what is the big cost of that big heal we can do? It only heal ONE other player at a time AND with a very short radius.
Team mate need to be close or they will not get the heal, and trust me as someone that play Polar Wind healer in BG that can be hard to follow people, mostly as you have only heavy armor you are very slow to be able to follow most speedy DD...
That's what make it fair, yeah if in front of you this is a duo of one healer and a DD you'll have issue to kill them if you don't have enough damage... But hey that's the goal of having a healer with us no? But that doesn't mean you'll die because there is actually only one DD in front of you...
In larger group Polar Wind Healer will not be able to heal all of his group in same time where other heal will be able.

React wrote: »

You post a link to a thread with no actual evidence, just anecdotal statements from people saying "I got hit hard". .

If you want a comment from someone that play Polar Wind healer in BG, there I'm.
There is insane damage dealer in PvP that can out perform my Polar Wind on my mate.
Polar Wind is good but no worries having a whole BG group or more on the same mate or even myself will kill me fast, I'll maybe have time to burn all my magicka in Polar Wind to survive but still will die.

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Tanks should not be proficient healers, and healers should not be proficient tanks. While Polar Wind is the worst offender; we need more balancing done to address this problem.

Every player in PvP are barelly tank as we all need to have few heavy armor. Every healer in PvP are just tank with a lot of heal when DD are tank with damage skill.
If you want to complain about tankingness in PvP stop only focusing Warden when every class have issue with being too tanky for what they can do as damage or heal...

React wrote: »

Polar wind will heal the caster and one other person drastically more than budding with 45k hp. Both the burst heal and the HOT. I wouldn't even be surprised if the HOT on a 45k HP polar wind is more than the combined value of the HOT + harvest synergy on budding.

You know why it's stronger than budding seed? Because of all it cost to be that good.
To have a good Polar Wind you need big HP which mean you have your other ressource low which also mean your other healing skill will be weaker. A 45k HP healer will not have 30k magicka and a big sustain.
And as I say above the range and the fact it gonna heal only one other player at a time.

Meanwhile if you want to build to have budding seed being good, that will also make all other healing skill good so you will be able to overlap multiple good heal on more than one other ally. Both work.

Warden just have a way to be a specific kind of healer for little group or duo, instead of being a classic mass healer.
Do not try to kill that just because your group cannot focus damage.
(Just communicate and/or use the mark wheel to say what player to focus, not that hard)

React

MATH_COW wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

The ability to heal your group shouldn't scale with your own tankieness. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Imagine not only being able to make an absolutely unkillable tank in PvP, and then being able to heal better than other group healers with that tank.

That’s what Polar Wind enables.

If it only healed yourself, then you would be an unkillable tank, something that has class parity, not an unstoppable force of trolling in PvP stalling out every Battleground lobby into 3-5million damage parse sessions where nobody kills each other in Deathmatch.

"Heal your group" "Heal better than other group healers"
Really there we got people that doesn't know what they are talking.
You know what is the big cost of that big heal we can do? It only heal ONE other player at a time AND with a very short radius.
Team mate need to be close or they will not get the heal, and trust me as someone that play Polar Wind healer in BG that can be hard to follow people, mostly as you have only heavy armor you are very slow to be able to follow most speedy DD...
That's what make it fair, yeah if in front of you this is a duo of one healer and a DD you'll have issue to kill them if you don't have enough damage... But hey that's the goal of having a healer with us no? But that doesn't mean you'll die because there is actually only one DD in front of you...
In larger group Polar Wind Healer will not be able to heal all of his group in same time where other heal will be able.

React wrote: »

You post a link to a thread with no actual evidence, just anecdotal statements from people saying "I got hit hard". .

If you want a comment from someone that play Polar Wind healer in BG, there I'm.
There is insane damage dealer in PvP that can out perform my Polar Wind on my mate.
Polar Wind is good but no worries having a whole BG group or more on the same mate or even myself will kill me fast, I'll maybe have time to burn all my magicka in Polar Wind to survive but still will die.

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Tanks should not be proficient healers, and healers should not be proficient tanks. While Polar Wind is the worst offender; we need more balancing done to address this problem.

Every player in PvP are barelly tank as we all need to have few heavy armor. Every healer in PvP are just tank with a lot of heal when DD are tank with damage skill.
If you want to complain about tankingness in PvP stop only focusing Warden when every class have issue with being too tanky for what they can do as damage or heal...

React wrote: »

Polar wind will heal the caster and one other person drastically more than budding with 45k hp. Both the burst heal and the HOT. I wouldn't even be surprised if the HOT on a 45k HP polar wind is more than the combined value of the HOT + harvest synergy on budding.

You know why it's stronger than budding seed? Because of all it cost to be that good.
To have a good Polar Wind you need big HP which mean you have your other ressource low which also mean your other healing skill will be weaker. A 45k HP healer will not have 30k magicka and a big sustain.
And as I say above the range and the fact it gonna heal only one other player at a time.

Meanwhile if you want to build to have budding seed being good, that will also make all other healing skill good so you will be able to overlap multiple good heal on more than one other ally. Both work.

Warden just have a way to be a specific kind of healer for little group or duo, instead of being a classic mass healer.
Do not try to kill that just because your group cannot focus damage.
(Just communicate and/or use the mark wheel to say what player to focus, not that hard)

Thank you for that, Math Cow.

Polar wind should be a self heal only.

Theist_VII

MATH_COW wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

The ability to heal your group shouldn't scale with your own tankieness. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Imagine not only being able to make an absolutely unkillable tank in PvP, and then being able to heal better than other group healers with that tank.

That’s what Polar Wind enables.

If it only healed yourself, then you would be an unkillable tank, something that has class parity, not an unstoppable force of trolling in PvP stalling out every Battleground lobby into 3-5million damage parse sessions where nobody kills each other in Deathmatch.

"Heal your group" "Heal better than other group healers"
Really there we got people that doesn't know what they are talking.
You know what is the big cost of that big heal we can do? It only heal ONE other player at a time AND with a very short radius.
Team mate need to be close or they will not get the heal, and trust me as someone that play Polar Wind healer in BG that can be hard to follow people, mostly as you have only heavy armor you are very slow to be able to follow most speedy DD...
That's what make it fair, yeah if in front of you this is a duo of one healer and a DD you'll have issue to kill them if you don't have enough damage... But hey that's the goal of having a healer with us no? But that doesn't mean you'll die because there is actually only one DD in front of you...
In larger group Polar Wind Healer will not be able to heal all of his group in same time where other heal will be able.

React wrote: »

You post a link to a thread with no actual evidence, just anecdotal statements from people saying "I got hit hard". .

If you want a comment from someone that play Polar Wind healer in BG, there I'm.
There is insane damage dealer in PvP that can out perform my Polar Wind on my mate.
Polar Wind is good but no worries having a whole BG group or more on the same mate or even myself will kill me fast, I'll maybe have time to burn all my magicka in Polar Wind to survive but still will die.

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Tanks should not be proficient healers, and healers should not be proficient tanks. While Polar Wind is the worst offender; we need more balancing done to address this problem.

Every player in PvP are barelly tank as we all need to have few heavy armor. Every healer in PvP are just tank with a lot of heal when DD are tank with damage skill.
If you want to complain about tankingness in PvP stop only focusing Warden when every class have issue with being too tanky for what they can do as damage or heal...

React wrote: »

Polar wind will heal the caster and one other person drastically more than budding with 45k hp. Both the burst heal and the HOT. I wouldn't even be surprised if the HOT on a 45k HP polar wind is more than the combined value of the HOT + harvest synergy on budding.

You know why it's stronger than budding seed? Because of all it cost to be that good.
To have a good Polar Wind you need big HP which mean you have your other ressource low which also mean your other healing skill will be weaker. A 45k HP healer will not have 30k magicka and a big sustain.
And as I say above the range and the fact it gonna heal only one other player at a time.

Meanwhile if you want to build to have budding seed being good, that will also make all other healing skill good so you will be able to overlap multiple good heal on more than one other ally. Both work.

Warden just have a way to be a specific kind of healer for little group or duo, instead of being a classic mass healer.
Do not try to kill that just because your group cannot focus damage.
(Just communicate and/or use the mark wheel to say what player to focus, not that hard)

What’s the TLDR? That you main a build exploiting this and don’t want to see it nerfed?

You’ll be alright, even after this problem skill is adjusted, tanky healers are going to continue to exist, you’ll just have to pay a little more attention to your health bar.

MATH_COW

Telos_Tim wrote: »

What’s the TLDR? That you main a build exploiting this and don’t want to see it nerfed?

You’ll be alright, even after this problem skill is adjusted, tanky healers are going to continue to exist, you’ll just have to pay a little more attention to your health bar.

Oh I'm so sorry I though the opinion of someone that play the class you want to nerf to the ground would interest you.

But in fact you just are just someone that don't care and are whining because you struggle to get easy kill on a very specific kind of build of a class you don't play so you don't care at all if it get nerfed stupidly.

In that logic let's go nerf the special things of other class too. NB doesn't need invisibility to do damage they will be alrgiht without it right, Sorc and arcanist can live without their teleportation and big shield they will be alright, Templar doesn't need all those push and stunt they will be alright without it, DK the list is maybe too long but will be alright too if we nerf to the ground some of their stuff right? I don't play those class so I don't care heh...

Hope it's not too long again =D

Galeriano2

Durham wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

I wish they would make the artic wind heal a HOT and not burst at all. No 3-second delay, though. That makes it useless as a heal. Or just make polar heal and artic strictly damage. This skill is all over the place. For pve dps, burst heal is already worse than hot, and then 3-second delay means just take the heal away and reallocate that part of the power budget. 3 second delay on a hot is MAYBE useful in certain situations. 3 seconds on a burst is... not.

Even if they make Artic a HOT PVP wardens will be forced to POLAR. In PVP you have to have a Burst!

Scribing?

Theist_VII

MATH_COW wrote: »

Templar doesn't need all those push and stunt they will be alright without it…

This is the second time you’ve said this sentence… Define “push and stunt” 😂

You keep mentioning skill, and a lack there-of, yet from the way you talk about playing the build, it would appear you need to look inward and reflect.

A lot of projection going on here, because if you or anyone around you is dying while you’re running a high health Warden, it’s a skill issue, and a severe one at that. Maybe a build issue too, because you mention bad sustain, need I remind you as a Warden player you should remember that you get 250 free resource return per second from a passive? That’s akin to 500 recovery, except you get it back while holding block, and for doing nothing other than keeping a Green Balance HoT on at least one person? Other classes need to secure a kill for their sustain passives, or wait untill they have an ultimate, but no, Warden gets it free.



There is no other class with passive sustain even remotely close to that.

xylena_lazarow

React wrote: »

It really doesn't need to be anymore complicated than simply changing polar to a self heal. At that point if they want, they can improve soothing spores.

If it loses the cross heal altogether, I'm dropping it for something that does cross heal like Healing Contingency, and continuing to do the same annoying thing I did before, just with less class identity. Cross healing needs to be rebalanced and standardized across the board. Nerfing Polar would be a start but it's far from simple.

React

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

React wrote: »

It really doesn't need to be anymore complicated than simply changing polar to a self heal. At that point if they want, they can improve soothing spores.

If it loses the cross heal altogether, I'm dropping it for something that does cross heal like Healing Contingency, and continuing to do the same annoying thing I did before, just with less class identity. Cross healing needs to be rebalanced and standardized across the board. Nerfing Polar would be a start but it's far from simple.

You'd probably be dropping it next patch anyways if you're playing a DD, since you'll want to be 29.9k HP frontbar. Highly reccomend trying healing soul in place of it now if you haven't already. Major vitality drastically increases all your healing, and the druids resurgence gives you basically infinite stam to block with.

I agree there is definitely standardization that can be done across the board, particularly in regards to the strength of burst heals and the ability to stack same morph HOTs without a limit. Changing polar wind to a self heal is like the lowest hanging fruit of all these issues though, and something I sincerely hope they will adjust since they're already looking at the other morph this PTS cycle.

MATH_COW

-

Telos_Tim wrote: »

MATH_COW wrote: »

Templar doesn't need all those push and stunt they will be alright without it…

This is the second time you’ve said this sentence… Define “push and stunt” 😂

You keep mentioning skill, and a lack there-of, yet from the way you talk about playing the build, it would appear you need to look inward and reflect.

A lot of projection going on here, because if you or anyone around you is dying while you’re running a high health Warden, it’s a skill issue, and a severe one at that. Maybe a build issue too, because you mention bad sustain, need I remind you as a Warden player you should remember that you get 250 free resource return per second from a passive? That’s akin to 500 recovery, except you get it back while holding block, and for doing nothing other than keeping a Green Balance HoT on at least one person? Other classes need to secure a kill for their sustain passives, or wait untill they have an ultimate, but no, Warden gets it free.



There is no other class with passive sustain even remotely close to that.

Ah yeah the famous easy HoT Green Balance skill!
There is... Budding Seeds that is not easy to maintain on PvP because of the movement the short area of effect and the ultimate... So free to get heh.

And yeah people can die around Polar Wind healer because somehow there is people that know how to deal with that kind of thing and don't need to come in forum to complain that this skill is "too strong".

xylena_lazarow

React wrote: »

You'd probably be dropping it next patch anyways if you're playing a DD, since you'll want to be 29.9k HP frontbar. Highly reccomend trying healing soul in place of it now if you haven't already. Major vitality drastically increases all your healing, and the druids resurgence gives you basically infinite stam to block with.

Yeah I've noticed a lot of people doing that lately, hopefully the Druid's nerf will curb it because the only thing worse than a cross healing DD meta is a permablock DD meta. And the change to Warden only encourages more of it, because that's how you survive below 30k hp as a Warden brawler, and once you go above 30k hp your permablock is buffed (lol).

Groups aren't dropping their 40k hp Polar DDs, it's not like they relied on frost staff. Personally I like Dazing Soul with Major Vitality and complement it with Contingency to get the heal and a missing minor buff like Force.

React

MATH_COW wrote: »

-

Telos_Tim wrote: »

MATH_COW wrote: »

Templar doesn't need all those push and stunt they will be alright without it…

This is the second time you’ve said this sentence… Define “push and stunt” 😂

You keep mentioning skill, and a lack there-of, yet from the way you talk about playing the build, it would appear you need to look inward and reflect.

A lot of projection going on here, because if you or anyone around you is dying while you’re running a high health Warden, it’s a skill issue, and a severe one at that. Maybe a build issue too, because you mention bad sustain, need I remind you as a Warden player you should remember that you get 250 free resource return per second from a passive? That’s akin to 500 recovery, except you get it back while holding block, and for doing nothing other than keeping a Green Balance HoT on at least one person? Other classes need to secure a kill for their sustain passives, or wait untill they have an ultimate, but no, Warden gets it free.



There is no other class with passive sustain even remotely close to that.

Ah yeah the famous easy HoT Green Balance skill!
There is... Budding Seeds that is not easy to maintain on PvP because of the movement the short area of effect and the ultimate... So free to get heh.

And yeah people can die around Polar Wind healer because somehow there is people that know how to deal with that kind of thing and don't need to come in forum to complain that this skill is "too strong".

Lotus flower? Trellis? Budding? All excellent skills to proc that passive with depending on the size of your group.

I hate to say it, but you're in the minority here if you think polar wind is completely fine in it's current state.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

React wrote: »

You'd probably be dropping it next patch anyways if you're playing a DD, since you'll want to be 29.9k HP frontbar. Highly reccomend trying healing soul in place of it now if you haven't already. Major vitality drastically increases all your healing, and the druids resurgence gives you basically infinite stam to block with.

Yeah I've noticed a lot of people doing that lately, hopefully the Druid's nerf will curb it because the only thing worse than a cross healing DD meta is a permablock DD meta. And the change to Warden only encourages more of it, because that's how you survive below 30k hp as a Warden brawler, and once you go above 30k hp your permablock is buffed (lol).

Groups aren't dropping their 40k hp Polar DDs, it's not like they relied on frost staff. Personally I like Dazing Soul with Major Vitality and complement it with Contingency to get the heal and a missing minor buff like Force.

That nerf really won't do anything against the strength of the playstyle. That said, I don't think it's really necessary to "permablock" in the sense that you hold block and never drop it. You will get your stam checked outnumbered if you do that. It's much more effective (albeit, harder to achieve/more skillfull) to block weave whilst offensive and to just selectively block for periods while defensive. This is something that has always existed as a higher APM/skillcap option and is healthy for the skill ceiling, imo.

Groups might not drop their 40k hp Warden DDs exclusively because of the change to piercing cold, but I bet you that if they make the necessary change to polar, they will lower their HP or have significantly less damage overall.

xylena_lazarow

React wrote: »

That nerf really won't do anything against the strength of the playstyle. That said, I don't think it's really necessary to "permablock" in the sense that you hold block and never drop it.

High apm tryhards are definitely jamming on their SnB block for X++ seconds at a time, not block feathering, okay fine high uptime block not literal permablock (but that's what it gets called). Maybe it's just taste, but I'd rather fight against cross healing than permablock, a very uninteractive playstyle with limited counterplay and the most stalemates.

MATH_COW

React wrote: »

MATH_COW wrote: »

-

Telos_Tim wrote: »

MATH_COW wrote: »

Templar doesn't need all those push and stunt they will be alright without it…

This is the second time you’ve said this sentence… Define “push and stunt” 😂

You keep mentioning skill, and a lack there-of, yet from the way you talk about playing the build, it would appear you need to look inward and reflect.

A lot of projection going on here, because if you or anyone around you is dying while you’re running a high health Warden, it’s a skill issue, and a severe one at that. Maybe a build issue too, because you mention bad sustain, need I remind you as a Warden player you should remember that you get 250 free resource return per second from a passive? That’s akin to 500 recovery, except you get it back while holding block, and for doing nothing other than keeping a Green Balance HoT on at least one person? Other classes need to secure a kill for their sustain passives, or wait untill they have an ultimate, but no, Warden gets it free.



There is no other class with passive sustain even remotely close to that.

Ah yeah the famous easy HoT Green Balance skill!
There is... Budding Seeds that is not easy to maintain on PvP because of the movement the short area of effect and the ultimate... So free to get heh.

And yeah people can die around Polar Wind healer because somehow there is people that know how to deal with that kind of thing and don't need to come in forum to complain that this skill is "too strong".

Lotus flower? Trellis? Budding? All excellent skills to proc that passive with depending on the size of your group.

I hate to say it, but you're in the minority here if you think polar wind is completely fine in it's current state.

I'm mostly seeing that I'm the minority that read.

I was answering about how "easily" it is to get the sustain passive from healing with a Green Balance passive.
"250 free resource return per second from passive" he said.
No, Lotus is not a easy way. You need to hit with a light or heavy attack to proc it while you could do something else and that's really not one of the best skill you wanna slot on a build where you haven't a lot of slot free to waist.
Trellis same but there you need to get hit. Budding Seeds I just explain why this is not a easy way to get a free sustain with the passive.

MATH_COW

React wrote: »

I hate to say it, but you're in the minority here if you think polar wind is completely fine in it's current state.

And yeah I'm the minority there because this post attracted every people that have the same opinion without ever had the point of view of someone that doesn't have it. You are just preaching to the choir.

React

MATH_COW wrote: »

React wrote: »

MATH_COW wrote: »

-

Telos_Tim wrote: »

MATH_COW wrote: »

Templar doesn't need all those push and stunt they will be alright without it…

This is the second time you’ve said this sentence… Define “push and stunt” 😂

You keep mentioning skill, and a lack there-of, yet from the way you talk about playing the build, it would appear you need to look inward and reflect.

A lot of projection going on here, because if you or anyone around you is dying while you’re running a high health Warden, it’s a skill issue, and a severe one at that. Maybe a build issue too, because you mention bad sustain, need I remind you as a Warden player you should remember that you get 250 free resource return per second from a passive? That’s akin to 500 recovery, except you get it back while holding block, and for doing nothing other than keeping a Green Balance HoT on at least one person? Other classes need to secure a kill for their sustain passives, or wait untill they have an ultimate, but no, Warden gets it free.



There is no other class with passive sustain even remotely close to that.

Ah yeah the famous easy HoT Green Balance skill!
There is... Budding Seeds that is not easy to maintain on PvP because of the movement the short area of effect and the ultimate... So free to get heh.

And yeah people can die around Polar Wind healer because somehow there is people that know how to deal with that kind of thing and don't need to come in forum to complain that this skill is "too strong".

Lotus flower? Trellis? Budding? All excellent skills to proc that passive with depending on the size of your group.

I hate to say it, but you're in the minority here if you think polar wind is completely fine in it's current state.

I'm mostly seeing that I'm the minority that read.

I was answering about how "easily" it is to get the sustain passive from healing with a Green Balance passive.
"250 free resource return per second from passive" he said.
No, Lotus is not a easy way. You need to hit with a light or heavy attack to proc it while you could do something else and that's really not one of the best skill you wanna slot on a build where you haven't a lot of slot free to waist.
Trellis same but there you need to get hit. Budding Seeds I just explain why this is not a easy way to get a free sustain with the passive.

What exactly do you mean by "you need to hit a light or heavy when you could be doing something else"? You weave between abilities, it is like the most basic fundamental mechanic in the game. You can proc that passive on cooldown with Lotus by doing something you'd already be doing anyways.

You're just describing your own inability to manage basic mechanics such as weaving, posisitioning, and buff uptimes while suggesting that others don't understand what they're talking about.