Absurd damage numbers in battleground

Hasenpfote · July 9

What is wrong with these absurd damage numbers in battleground?

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · July 9

Screenshot?

Kartalin · July 9

If all groups have one or two healers then damage numbers can spiral quickly especially if there are very few kills

CompM4s · July 9

Most high numbers are from aoe dots hitting everyone. Especially if they have a healer

Eternalscourge1 · July 9

Ive been trying to tell people as a long time pve and pvp tank that damage since the new update is out of control. Slowly some are realizing it. Top tier dps have discovered some really OP set ups, but because 1) dps outnumber tanks, and 2) dps will never admit to damage numbers being too high, its being ignored. I have 50k hp, 274 block cost, max resist, minor and major protection, ulfsilds 8%, 6% from keeping 3 crux active, major evasion, undeath from vampire, my arcanist shield, and either steamguards or oakensoul along with 2 defensive sets and im getting destroyed like I havent in literally over 5-6 years. I even tried using ayleid on top of eventhing else, didnt matter. Tried a full reflect build, that made it even worse. This goes for pve as well, but its extremely noticeable in pvp as a long time tank. Offense is the new defense, i can no longer fill a niche as a player tanker who.drops buffs, debuffs, and crowd control while playing the objective.

Eternalscourge1 · July 9

CompM4s wrote: »

Most high numbers are from aoe dots hitting everyone. Especially if they have a healer

Thats not just it. It has been literally yeara since ive been killed in a 1v1 fight in a bg. Its happened multiple times since the update. Im aware of them changing dmg calculations but either 1) they messed it up in the other direction or 2)scribing has allowed for some super OP DPS setups.

Hasenpfote · July 10

15k hits are pretty common in BG, even with 20k resis. Most time a act as healer and if i see my 600 heal per tick hots compares the their 15k hits, its just out of balance. I even tried all possible hots + direct heal. In addition, the match making seems not to work.

The match making also works very well, in deathmatch you usually see 500 vs 0 vs 0, because 1 team steamroles everthing and the other team is packed with noobs. That lets me guess that premade teams and random teams are in same brackets.

A damage dealer shouldnt be able to do more damage than a healer in 1vs1. Or healer become completly obsolete, if they cant outheal a single damge dealer.

Sluggy · July 10

Hasenpfote wrote: »

A damage dealer shouldnt be able to do more damage than a healer in 1vs1. Or healer become completly obsolete, if they cant outheal a single damge dealer.

I completely disagree. I think healing should never outpace damage or all fights turn into stalemates. Healing should be for buying time and recovering after a fight has concluded. It shouldn't be a get-out-of-jail-free card in the middle of any fight. It should be a mix of defense, healing, and counter pressure that saves the day. Not simply stacking heals and walking around casually like there isn't even a fight going on.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO · July 10

I noticed the same thing - damage numbers are through the roof. The best way to "tank" in PVP rn is healstack, then stealth/dodge/invispot and flee to come back later.

It is basically impossible to "endure" a 1v1 right now - just gotta kill them faster than they kill you or you lose.

MidniteOwl1913 · July 10

I did wonder if something was off. I don't really PVP but I like the IC quests. I can usually survive at least one hit. Now it seems even at a distance (I was riding away) I get one-shotted.

This is on my 33k health DK with shields.

Hasenpfote · July 10

Sluggy wrote: »

Hasenpfote wrote: »

A damage dealer shouldnt be able to do more damage than a healer in 1vs1. Or healer become completly obsolete, if they cant outheal a single damge dealer.

I completely disagree. I think healing should never outpace damage or all fights turn into stalemates. Healing should be for buying time and recovering after a fight has concluded. It shouldn't be a get-out-of-jail-free card in the middle of any fight. It should be a mix of defense, healing, and counter pressure that saves the day. Not simply stacking heals and walking around casually like there isn't even a fight going on.

Maybe it shouldnt be 1:1, but actually it feels like damage is 4x stronger than healing.

Eternalscourge1 · July 10

Hasenpfote wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

Hasenpfote wrote: »

A damage dealer shouldnt be able to do more damage than a healer in 1vs1. Or healer become completly obsolete, if they cant outheal a single damge dealer.

I completely disagree. I think healing should never outpace damage or all fights turn into stalemates. Healing should be for buying time and recovering after a fight has concluded. It shouldn't be a get-out-of-jail-free card in the middle of any fight. It should be a mix of defense, healing, and counter pressure that saves the day. Not simply stacking heals and walking around casually like there isn't even a fight going on.

Maybe it shouldnt be 1:1, but actually it feels like damage is 4x stronger than healing.

Damage now outpaces even the strongest tank. The only exception is possibly an amazong DK, but I have taken my arcanist as far as he can go, and yeah.....i have everything unlocked on my arcanist but im seriously considering switching to my DK even though I dont like DK

Zabagad · July 10

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Screenshot?

4 or 5 "witness" - still no CMX or at least a death recap to see which skill(s) are involved...

Sluggy · July 10

Eternalscourge1 wrote: »

Hasenpfote wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

Hasenpfote wrote: »

A damage dealer shouldnt be able to do more damage than a healer in 1vs1. Or healer become completly obsolete, if they cant outheal a single damge dealer.

I completely disagree. I think healing should never outpace damage or all fights turn into stalemates. Healing should be for buying time and recovering after a fight has concluded. It shouldn't be a get-out-of-jail-free card in the middle of any fight. It should be a mix of defense, healing, and counter pressure that saves the day. Not simply stacking heals and walking around casually like there isn't even a fight going on.

Maybe it shouldnt be 1:1, but actually it feels like damage is 4x stronger than healing.

Damage now outpaces even the strongest tank. The only exception is possibly an amazong DK, but I have taken my arcanist as far as he can go, and yeah.....i have everything unlocked on my arcanist but im seriously considering switching to my DK even though I dont like DK

Are you... playing the same game as me? I'm still seeing Mitch out there standing in the middle of 20-30 people wailing on him. Even Fengrush was having a go at the ol' 57k hp, half-health-bar-damage-shield mega tank.

EDIT: So I just realized that part of the disparity is probably due to the fact that you're playing in Battlegrounds whereas my experience comes from Cyrodiil and IC. I can't speak for Bgs honestly. I haven't touched them in years. They've always been something of an antitheses to how PvP is designed in this game and its only gotten worse. But in your case perhaps you are right.

Bradyfjord · July 10

I'm seeing the usual combo from a sorc team. Daedric Curse, Lightning, Frag proc combo. Annoying, but it happens.

Eternalscourge1 · July 10

Sluggy wrote: »

Eternalscourge1 wrote: »

Hasenpfote wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

Hasenpfote wrote: »

A damage dealer shouldnt be able to do more damage than a healer in 1vs1. Or healer become completly obsolete, if they cant outheal a single damge dealer.

I completely disagree. I think healing should never outpace damage or all fights turn into stalemates. Healing should be for buying time and recovering after a fight has concluded. It shouldn't be a get-out-of-jail-free card in the middle of any fight. It should be a mix of defense, healing, and counter pressure that saves the day. Not simply stacking heals and walking around casually like there isn't even a fight going on.

Maybe it shouldnt be 1:1, but actually it feels like damage is 4x stronger than healing.

Damage now outpaces even the strongest tank. The only exception is possibly an amazong DK, but I have taken my arcanist as far as he can go, and yeah.....i have everything unlocked on my arcanist but im seriously considering switching to my DK even though I dont like DK

Are you... playing the same game as me? I'm still seeing Mitch out there standing in the middle of 20-30 people wailing on him. Even Fengrush was having a go at the ol' 57k hp, half-health-bar-damage-shield mega tank.

EDIT: So I just realized that part of the disparity is probably due to the fact that you're playing in Battlegrounds whereas my experience comes from Cyrodiil and IC. I can't speak for Bgs honestly. I haven't touched them in years. They've always been something of an antitheses to how PvP is designed in this game and its only gotten worse. But in your case perhaps you are right.

Those folks you mentioned, do they run DK?
Ive tried a similiar setup (highest ive pushed HP is around 66,000) and its funny how quick BG damage comes in (I tried a 58k HP build with eternal warrior and HP scaling shields, and with a few groups-keep in mind in bgs, ill be constantly solo against 3-4, used to not be a problem) but anyway, I ran eternal warrior and got burst down so quick they ate through 75% of my bar, then through the 31-32k HP proc, before I could get my ultimate off (arcanist shield that blocks 60% of damage grts eaten through also). I got on my dk today, and Im realizing thats the issue probably. DK is just the best damage mitigation tank by far

Sluggy · July 11

Eternalscourge1 wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

Eternalscourge1 wrote: »

Hasenpfote wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

Hasenpfote wrote: »

A damage dealer shouldnt be able to do more damage than a healer in 1vs1. Or healer become completly obsolete, if they cant outheal a single damge dealer.

I completely disagree. I think healing should never outpace damage or all fights turn into stalemates. Healing should be for buying time and recovering after a fight has concluded. It shouldn't be a get-out-of-jail-free card in the middle of any fight. It should be a mix of defense, healing, and counter pressure that saves the day. Not simply stacking heals and walking around casually like there isn't even a fight going on.

Maybe it shouldnt be 1:1, but actually it feels like damage is 4x stronger than healing.

Damage now outpaces even the strongest tank. The only exception is possibly an amazong DK, but I have taken my arcanist as far as he can go, and yeah.....i have everything unlocked on my arcanist but im seriously considering switching to my DK even though I dont like DK

Are you... playing the same game as me? I'm still seeing Mitch out there standing in the middle of 20-30 people wailing on him. Even Fengrush was having a go at the ol' 57k hp, half-health-bar-damage-shield mega tank.

EDIT: So I just realized that part of the disparity is probably due to the fact that you're playing in Battlegrounds whereas my experience comes from Cyrodiil and IC. I can't speak for Bgs honestly. I haven't touched them in years. They've always been something of an antitheses to how PvP is designed in this game and its only gotten worse. But in your case perhaps you are right.

Those folks you mentioned, do they run DK?
Ive tried a similiar setup (highest ive pushed HP is around 66,000) and its funny how quick BG damage comes in (I tried a 58k HP build with eternal warrior and HP scaling shields, and with a few groups-keep in mind in bgs, ill be constantly solo against 3-4, used to not be a problem) but anyway, I ran eternal warrior and got burst down so quick they ate through 75% of my bar, then through the 31-32k HP proc, before I could get my ultimate off (arcanist shield that blocks 60% of damage grts eaten through also). I got on my dk today, and Im realizing thats the issue probably. DK is just the best damage mitigation tank by far

They were running necro. But I literally just got out of Cyrodiil (again, obvious differences due to CP and zone buffs) with my DK and I had zero issue fending off three and four attackers at a time. Even when entire raids were after me I was keeping them busy for several minutes. And I'm not playing a tank. All that being said, it did seem slightly easier to kill people - at least, the ones not running whatever that ridiculous full-bar damage shield scribing thing is. Overall I stand by my statement though. I don't have a horse in the BGs race but from all of the complaints about how every match goes the full length and every game is scored based on which team's tank gets to a flag first this sounds like an improvement.

WaywardArgonian · July 11

Hasenpfote wrote: »

15k hits are pretty common in BG, even with 20k resis. Most time a act as healer and if i see my 600 heal per tick hots compares the their 15k hits, its just out of balance. I even tried all possible hots + direct heal. In addition, the match making seems not to work.

The match making also works very well, in deathmatch you usually see 500 vs 0 vs 0, because 1 team steamroles everthing and the other team is packed with noobs. That lets me guess that premade teams and random teams are in same brackets.

A damage dealer shouldnt be able to do more damage than a healer in 1vs1. Or healer become completly obsolete, if they cant outheal a single damge dealer.

If your HoTs only tick for 600 the problem is on your end. Something like Echoing Vigor can easily tick over 2k and that is just one HoT out of several.

You are also comparing burst damage to a heal-over-time. HoTs are just there to provide a constant buffer of healing, while you should use burst heals to outheal big incoming damage. Healing is very strong in this game overall.

20K resist is nothing btw. If someone is wearing Balorgh, you are already fighting them practically with no resistance.

Hasenpfote · July 11

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Hasenpfote wrote: »

15k hits are pretty common in BG, even with 20k resis. Most time a act as healer and if i see my 600 heal per tick hots compares the their 15k hits, its just out of balance. I even tried all possible hots + direct heal. In addition, the match making seems not to work.

The match making also works very well, in deathmatch you usually see 500 vs 0 vs 0, because 1 team steamroles everthing and the other team is packed with noobs. That lets me guess that premade teams and random teams are in same brackets.

A damage dealer shouldnt be able to do more damage than a healer in 1vs1. Or healer become completly obsolete, if they cant outheal a single damge dealer.

If your HoTs only tick for 600 the problem is on your end. Something like Echoing Vigor can easily tick over 2k and that is just one HoT out of several.

You are also comparing burst damage to a heal-over-time. HoTs are just there to provide a constant buffer of healing, while you should use burst heals to outheal big incoming damage. Healing is very strong in this game overall.

20K resist is nothing btw. If someone is wearing Balorgh, you are already fighting them practically with no resistance.

Thats right, it is easy to reach a total of 25k pen. For example you can get 7k penetration with, also penetration is usally higher in values you can get as resis. So if 2 players stacks different stats, one stacks resis, one stacks penetration, you will have around 50% more penetration than armor.

The only "healer" that has any impact in battlegrounds are polar wind wardens. The other healers die in 2, maybe 3 seconds.
Actually, there is absoluitly no balance between these numbers.

cptscotty · July 11

Battleground damage is absolutely insane right now and is noticeably getting worst. Not sure what it is that people are getting but the damage is getting out of control even when wearing heavy defensive sets.

People dying during very strong healing ULTs too making healers worthless. Watched a templar tank with over 40k health get blown up while casting their stand-still-heal-ult Remembrance. If they are dying during that, the rest of us dont have much of a chance and its why we die within a second.

What is really concerning, is not only is damage getting higher...here soon with the next update we are about to lose a huge 30% defensive with the Vampire nerf. Not a big deal for Cyrodil play, but you will definitely notice it in BG's.

Personofsecrets · July 11

Damage is way up and I don't think that this all is limited to BGS, but it's very noticeable in BGS and IC.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 11

Damage numbers mean almost nothing in BGs.

1) If one team has a healer, the other team's damage numbers will be heavily inflated, even if they aren't actually killing anything.

2) There's plenty of "damage farm" procs that don't actually do enough damage to kill, but will rack up millions of points of damage on the scoreboard because they're constantly ticking on every enemy in the match.

3) Some things aren't even counted by the scoreboard damage tracker. I have a number of necro builds that can put out 2 or 3 million damage, but only about 500k will show up on the scoreboard because Pet damage isn't counted.

4) As the inverse of the first point, you can have an absurdly high damage build, but very low scoreboard damage if the enemies are built like tissue paper. If the enemies don't heal themselves and just keel over, you might have 20 kills but only 400k damage or so.

cptscotty · July 11

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Damage is way up and I don't think that this all is limited to BGS, but it's very noticeable in BGS and IC.

People are getting blown up during stuns too...dead before the stun is even over...even when wearing defensive sets. Creates for bad gameplay and yet again pushes people away from content.

Its why when you ask in ESO PVP discords about stuff like this, most of the elites repeatedly state that they never will join anything but Cyrodil and they laugh at people who do the other pvp content. Then of course they never write any guides for that content which makes it harder for newer players and makes the problem worst.

Sluggy · July 11

So here's the thing. A year ago people were complaining that TTK was too long and I disagreed. I argued it was way too short. And guess what. I still think that. But, I also said that mitigation and healing were also skyhigh. That hasn't changed. But, currently the only way to defeat someone is to absolutely blow them to smithereens within one or two seconds because anything less will result in a full reset of the fight.

I've said it in the past and I'll say it again. The game needs fight-entropy. There needs to be a sense of inevitable end to every confrontation. Tuning down the damage and the mitigation (and probably sustain as well) and then tuning healing further still would allow for 1v1 fights at a more reasonable pace - say, within 15-30 seconds between two well-balanced builds, while still allowing them to actually conclude.

Necrotech_Master · July 11

Sluggy wrote: »

So here's the thing. A year ago people were complaining that TTK was too long and I disagreed. I argued it was way too short. And guess what. I still think that. But, I also said that mitigation and healing were also skyhigh. That hasn't changed. But, currently the only way to defeat someone is to absolutely blow them to smithereens within one or two seconds because anything less will result in a full reset of the fight.

I've said it in the past and I'll say it again. The game needs fight-entropy. There needs to be a sense of inevitable end to every confrontation. Tuning down the damage and the mitigation (and probably sustain as well) and then tuning healing further still would allow for 1v1 fights at a more reasonable pace - say, within 15-30 seconds between two well-balanced builds, while still allowing them to actually conclude.

yeah, i would agree with this, its very difficult to kill someone who knows what they are doing unless you burst combo them

the only way your going to take 10 sec to kill someone right now is using a pressure/unoptimized build against someone who doesnt know what they are doing

most deaths i see, the person usually drops from 100->0 in less than 2 seconds, otherwise the fight becomes a drawn out 15 min slugfest until one person runs out of sustain, or more allies/enemies show up to unbalance the fight

Pelanora · July 11

And the younger kids playing all the other pvp games out there- this thread is why they won't in time come to eso.

Lalothen · July 11

This might be related to issues being seen in PvE with tanks suddenly getting blown up by abilities they had no issues with before. It's as if there's some sort of "calculative stutter" going on where for a moment it's as if a character loses all resist bonuses (including block bonuses) and takes the full brunt of damage.

moo_2021 · July 11

What absurd damage? Defense is a lot more absurd with people running 50k resist and get 40-50% damage mitigation when corrosive armor is active, and unkillable healers 1 vs 4.