RIP Ravenwatch.

gotdank

virtus753 wrote: »

gotdank wrote: »

ZOS_Icy editing and removing a lot of someone's opinions on here. I thought these forums were for us to come here to express opinions on the game and what's happening in it? Would be more appreciated if you engaged with us and address our concerns more than moderate how we express our opinions.

Icy is moderating because they’re a moderator. There are other people who are community managers. Less moderation from the one will not fix the lack of engagement from the other.

A players personal opinion isn't something we need a moderator for.

gotdank

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Maybe the majority of PvPers actually do want procs and cp? That's what the server pops show.

And that's why the majority have their own zone. Ravenwatch was for those who don't "actually want procs and cp". I think the biggest issue is people faction hopping to bully the other factions when one faction has all the keeps...making people log off from not being able to do anything.

Iriidius

Changing the ruleset of Ravenwatch to noproc forced all people and guilds who need proc sets to leave the campaign, but most players not using proc sets did not leave their campaign and friends and guilds to play in another campaign with other people not using procs.
I liked noproc Cyrodiil in update 28/29 and had multiple noproc builds when noproc was introduced and would have stayed on blackreach if noproc was introduced there but did not change to nocp Ravenwatch to avoid players with proc sets. Disabling both cp and proc sets limits options more and makes bombing more difficult by also disabling occult overload than just disabling proc sets

Varana wrote: »

In reality, Ravenwatch stopped being a "no-proc campaign" a long time ago.

It may have started that way, when there were like 15 sets that you could use in total, when the ruleset was introduced.

But ever since sets like Pariah were allowed on Ravenwatch, it stopped being "no-proc". A set like Pariah is a proc set if there ever was one.
Yes, it doesn't proc damage. But if it were only damage procs that were disallowed, then there would've been a few dozen more sets that needed to be allowed. Also, that's not what was advertised.

In the end, Ravenwatch was not a "no-proc campaign". It was a weird hybrid of obscure rulesets that were never actually communicated to the players, and while it may have had positive results for some issues, it also suffered from many others, like built-in class and role imbalances that couldn't be alleviated with gear because half of the sets didn't work for some unexplainable reason. Ravenwatch didn't require more or less skill in the game, it required investing time into finding out from half-reliable sources how the damn thing worked, and then working around these arbitrary restrictions.

ZOS never made the necessary investments in terms of balancing, UI, communication, etc. They left it as it was and haphazardly added or removed sets to it at random times, probably assigning some unlucky guy to it as a punishment for watching adult material in the office or whatever.

You clearly dont understand what proc sets are.
Pariah is a stat set scaling with your actual health and definitely not a proc set as it has neither a proc condition nor a duration or cooldown.
The rulesets were pretty clear: Sets with a proc/ trigger condition, duration, cooldown or dmg/healing are not working, Sets giving stats or percente increases are working also if they scale with things( health, stam/mag (torc of tonal), markyn) or buff only some types of dmg.

SeaGtGruff

gotdank wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

gotdank wrote: »

ZOS_Icy editing and removing a lot of someone's opinions on here. I thought these forums were for us to come here to express opinions on the game and what's happening in it? Would be more appreciated if you engaged with us and address our concerns more than moderate how we express our opinions.

Icy is moderating because they’re a moderator. There are other people who are community managers. Less moderation from the one will not fix the lack of engagement from the other.

A players personal opinion isn't something we need a moderator for.

That depends on how moderately we express our personal opinions. Personal attacks, bashing, baiting, conspiracy theories, etc., are not allowed and will likely be removed.

But to get back to the subject of the thread, I haven't been to the Ravenwatch campaign since the change, but hopefully it will still be a place where players who prefer to PvP under certain conditions/restrictions can go to have fun.

TaSheen

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

gotdank wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

gotdank wrote: »

ZOS_Icy editing and removing a lot of someone's opinions on here. I thought these forums were for us to come here to express opinions on the game and what's happening in it? Would be more appreciated if you engaged with us and address our concerns more than moderate how we express our opinions.

Icy is moderating because they’re a moderator. There are other people who are community managers. Less moderation from the one will not fix the lack of engagement from the other.

A players personal opinion isn't something we need a moderator for.

That depends on how moderately we express our personal opinions. Personal attacks, bashing, baiting, conspiracy theories, etc., are not allowed and will likely be removed.

But to get back to the subject of the thread, I haven't been to the Ravenwatch campaign since the change, but hopefully it will still be a place where players who prefer to PvP under certain conditions/restrictions can go to have fun.

I use Ravenwatch when I need to repair walls for an endeavor. Otherwise, when I need dawn prism, I just hit the main DC gate area (as all my mains/crafters are DC). Hakeijo I just jump into the top listed IC campaign, as I don't go anywhere besides finding Rogbual.

moderatelyfatman

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i might actually play in ravenwatch again once they get rid of the no proc nonsense lol

And I might play the game again when they stop nerfing the warden into oblivion. We can both hope!

Zyaneth_Bal

Tbh I’d rather we got CP No-proc. By far most of the overall power comes from constant releases of new proc sets and not cp.

So in my opinion cp no-proc would make a lot more sense as it would be a much more stable environment so to say, with a significantly lower risk of new game breaking additions. And reintroducing cp would only make the gameplay a bit more comfortable since procs which are comprising most of players’ power
would already be disabled.
And it’s the only mode currently not existing at all.

Varana

Iriidius wrote: »

The rulesets were pretty clear: Sets with a proc/ trigger condition, duration, cooldown or dmg/healing are not working, Sets giving stats or percente increases are working also if they scale with things( health, stam/mag (torc of tonal), markyn) or buff only some types of dmg.

a) You will certainly be able to quote ZOS where they stated that ruleset in a clear and accessible place.
Or at all.

b) Yeah, very clear and obvious.
Duneripper's Scales: "while bracing, increase resistances" - works
Kagrenac's: "when rezzing, restore magicka" - doesn't work
Prisoner's Rags: "while sprinting, restore magicka" - works
Coward's Gear: "while sprinting, get buff" - doesn't work
Shalk's Exoskeleton: "while in combat, get buff" - works
Sergeant's Mail: "when heavy attacking, get a stack for 5 seconds - works?!?
Eternal Vigor/Tonal: that is not scaling, that is a trigger.

Iriidius

Varana wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

The rulesets were pretty clear: Sets with a proc/ trigger condition, duration, cooldown or dmg/healing are not working, Sets giving stats or percente increases are working also if they scale with things( health, stam/mag (torc of tonal), markyn) or buff only some types of dmg.

a) You will certainly be able to quote ZOS where they stated that ruleset in a clear and accessible place.
Or at all.

b) Yeah, very clear and obvious.
Duneripper's Scales: "while bracing, increase resistances" - works
Kagrenac's: "when rezzing, restore magicka" - doesn't work
Prisoner's Rags: "while sprinting, restore magicka" - works
Coward's Gear: "while sprinting, get buff" - doesn't work
Shalk's Exoskeleton: "while in combat, get buff" - works
Sergeant's Mail: "when heavy attacking, get a stack for 5 seconds - works?!?
Eternal Vigor/Tonal: that is not scaling, that is a trigger.

Seargents mail used to be flat increase to your light/heavy attack dmg without condition/duration/ stacks so just an increase to your light/heavy attack stat and therefore not a proc set but after they reworked it it is a proc set and should not work anymore but probably they didnt update.
Eternal Vigor/Tonal Torc is not a trigger as you just have to write program code like this:
magrecovery=magrecovery+450*((currentstamina<(maxstamina/2)).
Same with bracing, sprinting, combat, currenthealth and a few other things, you just have to transform them into a number to multiply with in formula for calculation of already existing stats. Proc sets require lots of new variables and calculation while noproc set usually use existing variables and have calculation added to existing calculations.

RaikaNA

So far since the proc sets have been put back in Ravenwatch... I've seen no such improvement in the increased population during prime-time hours. The population.. as far as AD goes has gotten worse, not better.

CameraBeardThePirate

RaikaNA wrote: »

So far since the proc sets have been put back in Ravenwatch... I've seen no such improvement in the increased population during prime-time hours. The population.. as far as AD goes has gotten worse, not better.

Lots of players don't even realize it's changed back. Not like they announced it or advertised it very well outside the patch notes

Amottica

Monte_Cristo wrote: »

Good. I hated the no proc thing.

I agree. I agree mostly because it is a bad idea to create special campaigns for everyone's personal interests. If skills are not to be balanced between PvE and PvP outside of battle spirit because the devs want us to play the same way, then it makes no sense to have such specialized campaigns.

Oh, and yes, I know we play differently in PvP vs PvE. I was noting the devs' stance on why they do not balance things differently between the two areas of gameplay.

Gandalf_72

What do you think about the fact that this means gankers in large numbers entering NO-CP IC as well?

CameraBeardThePirate

Gandalf_72 wrote: »

What do you think about the fact that this means gankers in large numbers entering NO-CP IC as well?

Kill them? Build more survival into your build? Gankers generally don't hit as hard in No-CP, and they're generally easier to kill there as well.

Kartalin

Was hoping the population might get a bump with the new campaign start but it looks like business as usual. Essentially it's a problem of hardly anyone wants to go there unless a lot of other people are there, which is self-defeating.

ApoAlaia

Varana wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

The rulesets were pretty clear: Sets with a proc/ trigger condition, duration, cooldown or dmg/healing are not working, Sets giving stats or percente increases are working also if they scale with things( health, stam/mag (torc of tonal), markyn) or buff only some types of dmg.

a) You will certainly be able to quote ZOS where they stated that ruleset in a clear and accessible place.
Or at all.

b) Yeah, very clear and obvious.
Duneripper's Scales: "while bracing, increase resistances" - works
Kagrenac's: "when rezzing, restore magicka" - doesn't work
Prisoner's Rags: "while sprinting, restore magicka" - works
Coward's Gear: "while sprinting, get buff" - doesn't work
Shalk's Exoskeleton: "while in combat, get buff" - works
Sergeant's Mail: "when heavy attacking, get a stack for 5 seconds - works?!?
Eternal Vigor/Tonal: that is not scaling, that is a trigger.

Darloc Brae: while crouching and not bracing, restore health and resources - doesn't work

gotdank

Kartalin wrote: »

Was hoping the population might get a bump with the new campaign start but it looks like business as usual. Essentially it's a problem of hardly anyone wants to go there unless a lot of other people are there, which is self-defeating.

Yep, we got 2 days of a nice population...then back to same old scene. EP zergs in the morning/afternoon, AD zergs in the afternoon/night, DC takes over while everyone sleeps and no EP or AD to fight back...super fun. Procs really saved Ravenwatch...Really "fixed" things.

OsUfi

PC EU Ravenwatch is deader than it's ever been. The return of proc sets couldn't save it from that "hand full of players." Time to move back to Greyhost.

CaperGuy

Unfortunately on Xbox NA we didn’t get the return of old players nor any influx of new players in Ravenwatch with the procs returning. Just pretty much two guilds with dumb petty drama fighting with maybe the occasional third guild or small groups. Most of the time though it’s just been dead at the times I get to play, it’s not uncommon to have one person on an alliance at any given time. I don’t know if advertising for RW in the other campaigns might work…but at this point I doubt it.

gotdank

Alliance lock Ravenwatch, please! People love to argue that Alliance lock wouldn't make a difference and people don't want it...but EVERY zone that isn't allience locked is dead, and the only Alliance locked zone is ALWAYS full. You know the funny part about that? There is "Standard" and "Alliance locked", if people didn't like alliance lock...........................THEY WOULD BE IN STANDARD!!! It's the EXACT same settings except one key factor...ALLIANCE LOCKS!

Iriidius

gotdank wrote: »

Alliance lock Ravenwatch, please! People love to argue that Alliance lock wouldn't make a difference and people don't want it...but EVERY zone that isn't allience locked is dead, and the only Alliance locked zone is ALWAYS full. You know the funny part about that? There is "Standard" and "Alliance locked", if people didn't like alliance lock...........................THEY WOULD BE IN STANDARD!!! It's the EXACT same settings except one key factor...ALLIANCE LOCKS!

Zos placed faction lock on (sucessor of) popular 30 days campaign and no faction lock on the (successor of) unpopular 7 day campaign(that late also got replaced with 30 days)(where it would be less restrictive if you only have to wait only 7 days to change faction but still enaugh to prevent logging to strongest alliance whenever you want), they were already more popular before faction lock and players did not change to unbalanced dead campaign, there was no vote.

CaperGuy

gotdank wrote: »

Alliance lock Ravenwatch, please! People love to argue that Alliance lock wouldn't make a difference and people don't want it...but EVERY zone that isn't allience locked is dead, and the only Alliance locked zone is ALWAYS full. You know the funny part about that? There is "Standard" and "Alliance locked", if people didn't like alliance lock...........................THEY WOULD BE IN STANDARD!!! It's the EXACT same settings except one key factor...ALLIANCE LOCKS!

They could do this, and I’d be okay with it but I don’t think it would affect the population much.

Udrath

Every time I log on NA no-cp is still dead.

barney2525

whuts a proc? some kinda gator ?

TheMajority

gotdank wrote: »

Alliance lock Ravenwatch, please! People love to argue that Alliance lock wouldn't make a difference and people don't want it...but EVERY zone that isn't allience locked is dead, and the only Alliance locked zone is ALWAYS full. You know the funny part about that? There is "Standard" and "Alliance locked", if people didn't like alliance lock...........................THEY WOULD BE IN STANDARD!!! It's the EXACT same settings except one key factor...ALLIANCE LOCKS!

i don't think thats the reason. I think the real reason is there aint enough pvp player left to even fill other campaigns

M1SHAAN

I think the low population causes a positive feedback loop that drives people away and makes the situation even worse. Low pop means that small groups of coordinated people (or one single emperor who has lots of free time) can monopolize the map, which makes it frustrating for everyone else. Most of the time I have to pvp is not peak hours, and I have difficulty finding even one other person to take resources with me. And then when I try to do it myself, the emp shows up to curb stomp me. If the emp is particularly skillful even 5-6 low-mid skill people like me can't defeat them, so the campaign is dead until either the emp logs off or prime time / a guild event happens and more than 6 people are on.

The past few campaigns on PC-NA the dominant faction has been DC, but the same thing has happened with different factions before; as long as the population stays low, somebody with oodles of free time will make dominating Ravenwatch their pet project for the month. And everyone else suffers for it.

I'm not sure how to fix it. I don't think Alliance lock would do anything, since people switching sides isn't the issue. Maybe new content would bring enough people back to fix the low pop problem.

gotdank

CaperGuy wrote: »

They could do this, and I’d be okay with it but I don’t think it would affect the population much.

It would...because currently people just hop over to whatever faction is winning...dominate the map, make everyone else on the opposing factions log off, then they control the map for 12 hours and no one can fight back. If there was no faction hopping, people would have to fight for the faction they are on when they login, not the faction that is winning at the current time. It may not be the SOLE reason for all of the problems, but it is a HUGE issue that add's onto the problem.

ADawg

Udrath wrote: »

Every time I log on NA no-cp is still dead.

hmmm so weird considering they added procs back, which was supposed to "revive the population" on the argument that No Proc was killing the population.

Make it make sense!

gotdank

M1SHAAN wrote: »

I don't think Alliance lock would do anything, since people switching sides isn't the issue.

Faction hopping is literally a problem...just look at the Ravenwatch leaderboards. Each faction has the same people on the leaderboards for each faction.

ADawg

gotdank wrote: »

M1SHAAN wrote: »

I don't think Alliance lock would do anything, since people switching sides isn't the issue.

Faction hopping is literally a problem...just look at the Ravenwatch leaderboards. Each faction has the same people on the leaderboards for each faction.

Players on the top 10 on multiple factions is quite LITERALLY a problem that faction locking solves!

Also, faction locking prevents players from assisting the opposing faction's efforts to take ground.

Pick a team, play it for 30 days, swap at the next campaign!