RIP Ravenwatch.

TDVM

This company was already dead.

If you don't like proc then bring up topics about changing the balance from proc to more normal metas like stat. Then there won't be any problems

dinokstrunz

Thank the divines, getting rid of no proc has always been needed to rescue our beloved Ravenwatch. This is the best change to come from ESO's 10th anniversary funny enough.

Sylosi

No proc makes little sense in ESO.

Think about the self selecting sample that the handful of players left playing PvP (especially Cyrodiil) in this game largely consists of. Ask yourself do they enjoy skilled, competitive, well balanced PvP or do they enjoy uncompetitve, low skilled, roleplay PvP where you get hard carried by group comp, sets, procs, etc?

That question is rhetorical by the way, anyone genuinely bothered about skilled, competitive, well balanced or even good PvP isn't playing this game. Procs are perfect for what remains of the ESO "PvP" playerbase.

WaywardArgonian

No proc was fun for a while but ultimately it's a weird middle ground where ZOS kind of acknowledges proc gameplay can be annoying but effectively does nothing about it 'because there is a no proc campaign'. If they'd gotten the message from the start and addressed sets with free damage procs, none of this would've been necessary.

Anyway, I don't know how anyone can pretend that Ravenwatch PC/EU in its current form is a healthy campaign. There's multiple reasons for its current sorry state, and if anything bringing back procs will breathe some life into it, even if it doesn't address some of the bigger issues with PVP.

OsUfi

It's sad to see so many PvP'ers cheering the end of a PvP game mode. The current Ravenwatch rule set clearly has some fanbase. You're effectively cheering for what happened to the old RW fans 3 years ago to happen to the current RW fans. I can understand pushing for another campaign, but celebrating the death of a current one... Meh...

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Anyway, I don't know how anyone can pretend that Ravenwatch PC/EU in its current form is a healthy campaign. There's multiple reasons for its current sorry state, and if anything bringing back procs will breathe some life into it, even if it doesn't address some of the bigger issues with PVP.

Although I would have preferred to keep a no-proc campaign, if it this means those "5-6 DC players" might leave PC/EU RW...

It boggles my mind that so few people can cause so many to quit a campaign in all 3 factions.

LittlePinkDot

Honestly I don't have too much trouble with proc sets. Even tarnished nightmare is mostly just annoying because of the sound effect.
Basically you just need to tank up in PvP.

sbam66

when does this go live??

ADawg

The ironic thing is, you are all cheering this change to boost numbers into Ravenwatch. OK...where are those numbers going to come from?

They will leave the CP campaign to play in the NO CP + Proc RW campaign. Its a shift of PVP population, not a GROWTH of it.

This change doesn't magically unlock some large group of players waiting for a no-cp campaign. It alienates NO PROC PVPers while drawing Pro-Proc players who dislike 3,000CP players.

I at first didn't like no proc/no-cp but I grew to love it, because the limited set list made you have to really plan your build. It also levelled the playing field with CP being disabled.

MEBengalsFan2001

Game needs pvp gear and pve gear. This way when balancing gear it is easier to do since it would only impact one or the other and not both. With each new release crafting should offer one pve and one pvp gear.

Necrotech_Master

sbam66 wrote: »

when does this go live??

august 19 on PC, about 2 weeks later for console

Vulkunne

Look at it this way, ok, on the one hand, yes I remember the no-proc tests and I've got to be honest in that was alot of fun just PvPing and not worrying about getting bombed or people doing really stupid things to make a point or seeking attention.

I understand that part of it. However, as someone else had said earlier in this thread, Ravenwatch used to be under a different name and had a lively server attendance prior to going no-proc. Now I've been to Ravenwatch sometimes and its dead. I mean there's like a handful of DC taking the map and it stays blue. The trend over-time was people wanted to go where there was more players and so that would mean going to a proc server.

So maybe look at this as a new beginning for Ravenwatch and proc or not, if they don't make changes then no one gets what they want. Ravenwatch crew is going to be playing on a deserted server and everyone else is going to be waiting forever to join one of the proc servers. It's a hard situation but doing nothing in this case serves no one.

CaperGuy

I’m hopeful that procs and hammer returning to RW will bring some population back or some new people in. On Xbox-NA it’s not uncommon for you to be the only person on your faction at any given time, and the fights that you do get you already know how they’ll turn out because it’s the same small number of people you’ve played with or against for years.

And I definitely won’t miss having to keep testing all the sets in there due to ZoS not informing their playerbase about what sets work in there.

Plus….boom!

West93

I remember on PC EU before ravenwatch was turned into no proc (around 2020 I believe?), it was more popular than grayhost/blackreach. When grayhost population become 1 bar during late at night, ravenwatch would still be busy with 2 or 3 bars which at that hour I would go there to continue pvp.

Now what happened to ravenwatch? Completely dead during day time with maybe 2-3 hours of higher population during peak hours. Nothing compared to how it was back in the day.

sbam66

Zaan will definitely be making a return into No-CP!

gronoxvx

Meh. On xbox na it was always dead anyway. No great loss.

Major_Toughness

ADawg wrote: »

[snip] AD consistently pulls full pop groups on weekends, DC has a solid core group of high skilled players. Meanwhile us EP are a band of individual introverts who are incapable of working together beyond 1-2 hour bursts after a solid 40 hours workweek.

WE true RAVENWATCH players play for the CHALLENGE of not having procs. We DESPISE the "left click twice and win" sets that make the game annoying.

No proc was a rocky change when it rolled out, but we grew to LOVE IT.
We LOVE having to actually think about our builds because we don't get 3k sustains, 40k armors, 8k damage, infinite health and total cheese. Class identity feels more relevant in Ravenwatch due to certain buffs being harder to obtain with the limited set list.

Almost every single player who dislikes no proc can go play in a proc campaign. This change does nothing but annoy those of us that enjoy it.

I get you want to standardize BGs with NO-CP, here's a thought: give us no proc BGs!

Seriously, this game will go into the ol Steam archive and I will find something else.

Very annoyed right now!!!!

Sounds like you don't like the challenge of playing AGAINST Procs. Surely if you're so skilled it's not an issue for you.

[edited to remove quote]

SeaGtGruff

Major_Toughness wrote: »

ADawg wrote: »

[snip] AD consistently pulls full pop groups on weekends, DC has a solid core group of high skilled players. Meanwhile us EP are a band of individual introverts who are incapable of working together beyond 1-2 hour bursts after a solid 40 hours workweek.

WE true RAVENWATCH players play for the CHALLENGE of not having procs. We DESPISE the "left click twice and win" sets that make the game annoying.

No proc was a rocky change when it rolled out, but we grew to LOVE IT.
We LOVE having to actually think about our builds because we don't get 3k sustains, 40k armors, 8k damage, infinite health and total cheese. Class identity feels more relevant in Ravenwatch due to certain buffs being harder to obtain with the limited set list.

Almost every single player who dislikes no proc can go play in a proc campaign. This change does nothing but annoy those of us that enjoy it.

I get you want to standardize BGs with NO-CP, here's a thought: give us no proc BGs!

Seriously, this game will go into the ol Steam archive and I will find something else.

Very annoyed right now!!!!

Sounds like you don't like the challenge of playing AGAINST Procs. Surely if you're so skilled it's not an issue for you.

That argument doesn't wash. It could just as easily be flipped around: "Sounds like some players don't like the challenge of playing WITHOUT Procs. Surely if they're so skilled it's not an issue for them." See? Does that sound any better, because it makes just as much sense, or nonsense.

The fact is, each player chooses which challenges in the game they're interested in tackling, as well as what approaches they want to take to mastering those challenges. If players wanted to PvP without having to deal with Proc sets, they had a place where they could do that. In another week or three (depending on their platform, computer or console), they won't have that choice any more, so of course they're upset about it.

I should add that I prefer to play in Gray Host, and I generally don't play in Ravenwatch unless I have a specific need to, such as if Gray Host and Blackreach are both pop-locked and have long queues, or if I'm trying to do an Endeavor to repair damage to structures in Cyrodiil but there's nothing for me to repair in Gray Host or Blackreach. And my preference is not about which campaigns allow Proc sets or not, nor even about which campaigns are Alliance-locked or not, but rather about which ones have CP or not-- not because I can't play without the benefits of CP, but rather because I'm used to those benefits and it can be painful to forget that they aren't there (such as being killed by fall damage from leaping my mount off of a ledge that I would have survived if my CP had been active). But my preferences are my own, and other players should be able to have their own preferences without having anyone cast shade on them for it.

[edited to remove quote]

Major_Toughness

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

ADawg wrote: »

[snip] AD consistently pulls full pop groups on weekends, DC has a solid core group of high skilled players. Meanwhile us EP are a band of individual introverts who are incapable of working together beyond 1-2 hour bursts after a solid 40 hours workweek.

WE true RAVENWATCH players play for the CHALLENGE of not having procs. We DESPISE the "left click twice and win" sets that make the game annoying.

No proc was a rocky change when it rolled out, but we grew to LOVE IT.
We LOVE having to actually think about our builds because we don't get 3k sustains, 40k armors, 8k damage, infinite health and total cheese. Class identity feels more relevant in Ravenwatch due to certain buffs being harder to obtain with the limited set list.

Almost every single player who dislikes no proc can go play in a proc campaign. This change does nothing but annoy those of us that enjoy it.

I get you want to standardize BGs with NO-CP, here's a thought: give us no proc BGs!

Seriously, this game will go into the ol Steam archive and I will find something else.

Very annoyed right now!!!!

Sounds like you don't like the challenge of playing AGAINST Procs. Surely if you're so skilled it's not an issue for you.

That argument doesn't wash. It could just as easily be flipped around: "Sounds like some players don't like the challenge of playing WITHOUT Procs. Surely if they're so skilled it's not an issue for them." See? Does that sound any better, because it makes just as much sense, or nonsense.

The fact is, each player chooses which challenges in the game they're interested in tackling, as well as what approaches they want to take to mastering those challenges. If players wanted to PvP without having to deal with Proc sets, they had a place where they could do that. In another week or three (depending on their platform, computer or console), they won't have that choice any more, so of course they're upset about it.

I should add that I prefer to play in Gray Host, and I generally don't play in Ravenwatch unless I have a specific need to, such as if Gray Host and Blackreach are both pop-locked and have long queues, or if I'm trying to do an Endeavor to repair damage to structures in Cyrodiil but there's nothing for me to repair in Gray Host or Blackreach. And my preference is not about which campaigns allow Proc sets or not, nor even about which campaigns are Alliance-locked or not, but rather about which ones have CP or not-- not because I can't play without the benefits of CP, but rather because I'm used to those benefits and it can be painful to forget that they aren't there (such as being killed by fall damage from leaping my mount off of a ledge that I would have survived if my CP had been active). But my preferences are my own, and other players should be able to have their own preferences without having anyone cast shade on them for it.

That is the exact argument of the 5 people who actually play no proc and you see numerous times in every thread about no proc.

So thank you for saying it doesn't make any sense.

[edited to remove quote]

OsUfi

Major_Toughness wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

ADawg wrote: »

[snip] AD consistently pulls full pop groups on weekends, DC has a solid core group of high skilled players. Meanwhile us EP are a band of individual introverts who are incapable of working together beyond 1-2 hour bursts after a solid 40 hours workweek.

WE true RAVENWATCH players play for the CHALLENGE of not having procs. We DESPISE the "left click twice and win" sets that make the game annoying.

No proc was a rocky change when it rolled out, but we grew to LOVE IT.
We LOVE having to actually think about our builds because we don't get 3k sustains, 40k armors, 8k damage, infinite health and total cheese. Class identity feels more relevant in Ravenwatch due to certain buffs being harder to obtain with the limited set list.

Almost every single player who dislikes no proc can go play in a proc campaign. This change does nothing but annoy those of us that enjoy it.

I get you want to standardize BGs with NO-CP, here's a thought: give us no proc BGs!

Seriously, this game will go into the ol Steam archive and I will find something else.

Very annoyed right now!!!!

Sounds like you don't like the challenge of playing AGAINST Procs. Surely if you're so skilled it's not an issue for you.

That argument doesn't wash. It could just as easily be flipped around: "Sounds like some players don't like the challenge of playing WITHOUT Procs. Surely if they're so skilled it's not an issue for them." See? Does that sound any better, because it makes just as much sense, or nonsense.

The fact is, each player chooses which challenges in the game they're interested in tackling, as well as what approaches they want to take to mastering those challenges. If players wanted to PvP without having to deal with Proc sets, they had a place where they could do that. In another week or three (depending on their platform, computer or console), they won't have that choice any more, so of course they're upset about it.

I should add that I prefer to play in Gray Host, and I generally don't play in Ravenwatch unless I have a specific need to, such as if Gray Host and Blackreach are both pop-locked and have long queues, or if I'm trying to do an Endeavor to repair damage to structures in Cyrodiil but there's nothing for me to repair in Gray Host or Blackreach. And my preference is not about which campaigns allow Proc sets or not, nor even about which campaigns are Alliance-locked or not, but rather about which ones have CP or not-- not because I can't play without the benefits of CP, but rather because I'm used to those benefits and it can be painful to forget that they aren't there (such as being killed by fall damage from leaping my mount off of a ledge that I would have survived if my CP had been active). But my preferences are my own, and other players should be able to have their own preferences without having anyone cast shade on them for it.

That is the exact argument of the 5 people who actually play no proc and you see numerous times in every thread about no proc.

So thank you for saying it doesn't make any sense.

PC EU happily sits at three bars to full on each alliance in a Friday night. Hyperbole and exaggeration are the absolute worst way to discuss anything in the Internet.

[edited to remove quote]

Major_Toughness

OsUfi wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

ADawg wrote: »

[snip] AD consistently pulls full pop groups on weekends, DC has a solid core group of high skilled players. Meanwhile us EP are a band of individual introverts who are incapable of working together beyond 1-2 hour bursts after a solid 40 hours workweek.

WE true RAVENWATCH players play for the CHALLENGE of not having procs. We DESPISE the "left click twice and win" sets that make the game annoying.

No proc was a rocky change when it rolled out, but we grew to LOVE IT.
We LOVE having to actually think about our builds because we don't get 3k sustains, 40k armors, 8k damage, infinite health and total cheese. Class identity feels more relevant in Ravenwatch due to certain buffs being harder to obtain with the limited set list.

Almost every single player who dislikes no proc can go play in a proc campaign. This change does nothing but annoy those of us that enjoy it.

I get you want to standardize BGs with NO-CP, here's a thought: give us no proc BGs!

Seriously, this game will go into the ol Steam archive and I will find something else.

Very annoyed right now!!!!

Sounds like you don't like the challenge of playing AGAINST Procs. Surely if you're so skilled it's not an issue for you.

That argument doesn't wash. It could just as easily be flipped around: "Sounds like some players don't like the challenge of playing WITHOUT Procs. Surely if they're so skilled it's not an issue for them." See? Does that sound any better, because it makes just as much sense, or nonsense.

The fact is, each player chooses which challenges in the game they're interested in tackling, as well as what approaches they want to take to mastering those challenges. If players wanted to PvP without having to deal with Proc sets, they had a place where they could do that. In another week or three (depending on their platform, computer or console), they won't have that choice any more, so of course they're upset about it.

I should add that I prefer to play in Gray Host, and I generally don't play in Ravenwatch unless I have a specific need to, such as if Gray Host and Blackreach are both pop-locked and have long queues, or if I'm trying to do an Endeavor to repair damage to structures in Cyrodiil but there's nothing for me to repair in Gray Host or Blackreach. And my preference is not about which campaigns allow Proc sets or not, nor even about which campaigns are Alliance-locked or not, but rather about which ones have CP or not-- not because I can't play without the benefits of CP, but rather because I'm used to those benefits and it can be painful to forget that they aren't there (such as being killed by fall damage from leaping my mount off of a ledge that I would have survived if my CP had been active). But my preferences are my own, and other players should be able to have their own preferences without having anyone cast shade on them for it.

That is the exact argument of the 5 people who actually play no proc and you see numerous times in every thread about no proc.

So thank you for saying it doesn't make any sense.

PC EU happily sits at three bars to full on each alliance in a Friday night. Hyperbole and exaggeration are the absolute worst way to discuss anything in the Internet.

Given that wasn't true yesterday I'm not sure you are being truthful.

GH and BR were high or locked on all alliances and Ravenwatch was low on all alliances.

[edited to remove quote]

ADawg

Major_Toughness wrote: »

ADawg wrote: »

[snip] AD consistently pulls full pop groups on weekends, DC has a solid core group of high skilled players. Meanwhile us EP are a band of individual introverts who are incapable of working together beyond 1-2 hour bursts after a solid 40 hours workweek.

WE true RAVENWATCH players play for the CHALLENGE of not having procs. We DESPISE the "left click twice and win" sets that make the game annoying.

No proc was a rocky change when it rolled out, but we grew to LOVE IT.
We LOVE having to actually think about our builds because we don't get 3k sustains, 40k armors, 8k damage, infinite health and total cheese. Class identity feels more relevant in Ravenwatch due to certain buffs being harder to obtain with the limited set list.

Almost every single player who dislikes no proc can go play in a proc campaign. This change does nothing but annoy those of us that enjoy it.

I get you want to standardize BGs with NO-CP, here's a thought: give us no proc BGs!

Seriously, this game will go into the ol Steam archive and I will find something else.

Very annoyed right now!!!!

Sounds like you don't like the challenge of playing AGAINST Procs. Surely if you're so skilled it's not an issue for you.

I say the same thing when guys whine about being single...skill issue

[edited to remove quote]

Bucky_13

OsUfi wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

ADawg wrote: »

[snip] AD consistently pulls full pop groups on weekends, DC has a solid core group of high skilled players. Meanwhile us EP are a band of individual introverts who are incapable of working together beyond 1-2 hour bursts after a solid 40 hours workweek.

WE true RAVENWATCH players play for the CHALLENGE of not having procs. We DESPISE the "left click twice and win" sets that make the game annoying.

No proc was a rocky change when it rolled out, but we grew to LOVE IT.
We LOVE having to actually think about our builds because we don't get 3k sustains, 40k armors, 8k damage, infinite health and total cheese. Class identity feels more relevant in Ravenwatch due to certain buffs being harder to obtain with the limited set list.

Almost every single player who dislikes no proc can go play in a proc campaign. This change does nothing but annoy those of us that enjoy it.

I get you want to standardize BGs with NO-CP, here's a thought: give us no proc BGs!

Seriously, this game will go into the ol Steam archive and I will find something else.

Very annoyed right now!!!!

Sounds like you don't like the challenge of playing AGAINST Procs. Surely if you're so skilled it's not an issue for you.

That argument doesn't wash. It could just as easily be flipped around: "Sounds like some players don't like the challenge of playing WITHOUT Procs. Surely if they're so skilled it's not an issue for them." See? Does that sound any better, because it makes just as much sense, or nonsense.

The fact is, each player chooses which challenges in the game they're interested in tackling, as well as what approaches they want to take to mastering those challenges. If players wanted to PvP without having to deal with Proc sets, they had a place where they could do that. In another week or three (depending on their platform, computer or console), they won't have that choice any more, so of course they're upset about it.

I should add that I prefer to play in Gray Host, and I generally don't play in Ravenwatch unless I have a specific need to, such as if Gray Host and Blackreach are both pop-locked and have long queues, or if I'm trying to do an Endeavor to repair damage to structures in Cyrodiil but there's nothing for me to repair in Gray Host or Blackreach. And my preference is not about which campaigns allow Proc sets or not, nor even about which campaigns are Alliance-locked or not, but rather about which ones have CP or not-- not because I can't play without the benefits of CP, but rather because I'm used to those benefits and it can be painful to forget that they aren't there (such as being killed by fall damage from leaping my mount off of a ledge that I would have survived if my CP had been active). But my preferences are my own, and other players should be able to have their own preferences without having anyone cast shade on them for it.

That is the exact argument of the 5 people who actually play no proc and you see numerous times in every thread about no proc.

So thank you for saying it doesn't make any sense.

PC EU happily sits at three bars to full on each alliance in a Friday night. Hyperbole and exaggeration are the absolute worst way to discuss anything in the Internet.

That was the pop on Monday to Thursday evenings when proc sets were allowed, while it was pop locked with queue on Friday to Sunday evenings. I've been there on Friday evenings this year before I gave up and went cp Cyro instead because Raven was nothing like before. And I see a lot of players in CP who used to be Raven regulars before no proc became a thing.

So I look forward to this change because Raven with no procs is a dying campaign.

[edited to remove quote]

Major_Toughness

A certain streamer organised a "march" around Ravenwatch for the "death" of Ravenwatch.

12 people were there.

gotdank

Don't really care about the proc sets so much, but still do wish they didn't add them. The biggest thing for me, is I really wish they would remove the stupid hammer they added. Ravenwatch is already hard to gain ground in with it's population and people faction hopping constantly...so now they get numbers, scroll buffs, emp buffs and a hammer that takes 30 seconds to destroy keep doors and walls...come on. Remove it, please.

My personal opinion, the perfect Ravenwatch would be:
1. Alliance locked (if not for the campaign, then at least for 24 hours after playing a faction. To stop people from faction hopping to whoever is winning at the time).
2. No proc.

In all honestly, I think people have enough personal buffs as is. I don't see a need for all these extra bs buffs. I think there should be a Cyrodil hardcore campaign with:

1. Alliance Lock
2. No proc
3. No emp buffs
4. No scroll buffs
5. No goofy hammer

That will never happen tho, but I think that would be the perfect zone. There is no need for all these extra buffs. Let people fight it out with their builds without all the extra boosts...more like Gloria Victis used to play instead of giving people a million handicap buffs. There's so many buffs and extra non-sense, it's like people aren't even playing their builds...their builds are playing themselves, it does all the work for them. This game started off good, but has slowly pulled itself away from what an MMO is. Classes don't matter, race doesn't matter...because there are potions, buffs, sets and more that just give you the special things a class or race gives you. It makes everything useless in my opinion.

Varana

In reality, Ravenwatch stopped being a "no-proc campaign" a long time ago.

It may have started that way, when there were like 15 sets that you could use in total, when the ruleset was introduced.

But ever since sets like Pariah were allowed on Ravenwatch, it stopped being "no-proc". A set like Pariah is a proc set if there ever was one.
Yes, it doesn't proc damage. But if it were only damage procs that were disallowed, then there would've been a few dozen more sets that needed to be allowed. Also, that's not what was advertised.

In the end, Ravenwatch was not a "no-proc campaign". It was a weird hybrid of obscure rulesets that were never actually communicated to the players, and while it may have had positive results for some issues, it also suffered from many others, like built-in class and role imbalances that couldn't be alleviated with gear because half of the sets didn't work for some unexplainable reason. Ravenwatch didn't require more or less skill in the game, it required investing time into finding out from half-reliable sources how the damn thing worked, and then working around these arbitrary restrictions.

ZOS never made the necessary investments in terms of balancing, UI, communication, etc. They left it as it was and haphazardly added or removed sets to it at random times, probably assigning some unlucky guy to it as a punishment for watching adult material in the office or whatever.

gotdank

ZOS_Icy editing and removing a lot of someone's opinions on here. I thought these forums were for us to come here to express opinions on the game and what's happening in it? Would be more appreciated if you engaged with us and address our concerns more than moderate how we express our opinions.

virtus753

gotdank wrote: »

ZOS_Icy editing and removing a lot of someone's opinions on here. I thought these forums were for us to come here to express opinions on the game and what's happening in it? Would be more appreciated if you engaged with us and address our concerns more than moderate how we express our opinions.

Icy is moderating because they’re a moderator. There are other people who are community managers. Less moderation from the one will not fix the lack of engagement from the other.

xylena_lazarow

Maybe the majority of PvPers actually do want procs and cp? That's what the server pops show.

xDeusEJRx

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Maybe the majority of PvPers actually do want procs and cp? That's what the server pops show.

I think population servers are more indicative of how the population balance effects the health of campaign, not necessarily "yes we like" or "no we do not like" a certain playstyle. If a campaign has any significant imbalance, players are less likely to want to play at that time (not many people like logging into gated campaigns or a campaign where they have on chance)

Not to say it has no impact but more goes into campaign activity than just "yeah we enjoy playing with procs". I think no one would play in a proc enabled campaign if it was 3 bars vs 0 bars for example

That's why gray host is almost always most popular, not because of faction lock, not because of procs, but because it's always been less likely to have a good pop balance over the rest of the camps because it's always been popular since forever.

OsUfi

Bucky_13 wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

ADawg wrote: »

[snip] AD consistently pulls full pop groups on weekends, DC has a solid core group of high skilled players. Meanwhile us EP are a band of individual introverts who are incapable of working together beyond 1-2 hour bursts after a solid 40 hours workweek.

WE true RAVENWATCH players play for the CHALLENGE of not having procs. We DESPISE the "left click twice and win" sets that make the game annoying.

No proc was a rocky change when it rolled out, but we grew to LOVE IT.
We LOVE having to actually think about our builds because we don't get 3k sustains, 40k armors, 8k damage, infinite health and total cheese. Class identity feels more relevant in Ravenwatch due to certain buffs being harder to obtain with the limited set list.

Almost every single player who dislikes no proc can go play in a proc campaign. This change does nothing but annoy those of us that enjoy it.

I get you want to standardize BGs with NO-CP, here's a thought: give us no proc BGs!

Seriously, this game will go into the ol Steam archive and I will find something else.

Very annoyed right now!!!!

Sounds like you don't like the challenge of playing AGAINST Procs. Surely if you're so skilled it's not an issue for you.

That argument doesn't wash. It could just as easily be flipped around: "Sounds like some players don't like the challenge of playing WITHOUT Procs. Surely if they're so skilled it's not an issue for them." See? Does that sound any better, because it makes just as much sense, or nonsense.

The fact is, each player chooses which challenges in the game they're interested in tackling, as well as what approaches they want to take to mastering those challenges. If players wanted to PvP without having to deal with Proc sets, they had a place where they could do that. In another week or three (depending on their platform, computer or console), they won't have that choice any more, so of course they're upset about it.

I should add that I prefer to play in Gray Host, and I generally don't play in Ravenwatch unless I have a specific need to, such as if Gray Host and Blackreach are both pop-locked and have long queues, or if I'm trying to do an Endeavor to repair damage to structures in Cyrodiil but there's nothing for me to repair in Gray Host or Blackreach. And my preference is not about which campaigns allow Proc sets or not, nor even about which campaigns are Alliance-locked or not, but rather about which ones have CP or not-- not because I can't play without the benefits of CP, but rather because I'm used to those benefits and it can be painful to forget that they aren't there (such as being killed by fall damage from leaping my mount off of a ledge that I would have survived if my CP had been active). But my preferences are my own, and other players should be able to have their own preferences without having anyone cast shade on them for it.

That is the exact argument of the 5 people who actually play no proc and you see numerous times in every thread about no proc.

So thank you for saying it doesn't make any sense.

PC EU happily sits at three bars to full on each alliance in a Friday night. Hyperbole and exaggeration are the absolute worst way to discuss anything in the Internet.

That was the pop on Monday to Thursday evenings when proc sets were allowed, while it was pop locked with queue on Friday to Sunday evenings. I've been there on Friday evenings this year before I gave up and went cp Cyro instead because Raven was nothing like before. And I see a lot of players in CP who used to be Raven regulars before no proc became a thing.

So I look forward to this change because Raven with no procs is a dying campaign.

[edited to remove quote]

There's multiple reasons and arguments made both ways for the population state of both pre and post no proc Ravenwatch that do not involve procs.

The general decline of the PvP community due to lack of updates. Covid era gaming when populations everywhere exploded. The current state of Ravenwatch balance with that tiny group of DC players driving all the AD and EP players away.

But I maintain, there has been a substantial playerbase on PC EU Ravenwatch that liked the ruleset, and hyperbole and exaggeration doesn't help the conversation about the return of proc.

Neither does celebrating the loss of a PvP mode when the absolute last thing this game needs is to take away PvP modes. Surely to heck bringing back a no cp & proc campaign in addition to the current campaigns would have been a better idea.