PTS Update 42 - Feedback Thread for Scribing (Combat & Skills)

MashmalloMan

Savos_Saren wrote: »

verminjerky wrote: »

As a Templar DPS main, I don't like the Templar class mastery.

Activate Light Weaver for 4 seconds, increasing your Armor by 33k and snaring you by 50%. If you are at 50% or less Health, gain 1 Ultimate.

I appreciate that ZOS is trying to give some tanking stuff to a class that's not used for tanking but... nobody uses Templar for tanking. This feels like a more appropriate class mastery for a well-used tank class like DK, which also synergizes with DK's incredibly strong ultimates and ultimate-based passive. (Templar doesn't even have a tanking ult.)

It's also the only class mastery with a downside. 😩 Why did ZOS stop loving Templar?

It would be okay without that massive snare, Templar is long known for its survivability, especially relative to being a melee class, so adding more of that back into the game is not unwelcome. But this class mastery should be aimed at, or at least usable by, DPS and healers, who won't benefit from it without mobility.

I keep seeing "This would be great for tanking... nobody uses the Templar for tanking..."

Maybe ZOS is trying to give Templars better tools to tank? If ZOS keeps feeding Templars non-tanking skills... then Templars are never going to tank.

I don't know where this train of thought is coming from exactly? PVE tanks do not need +33k armor, when 33k armor is the PVE cap and it's easily reached by other means. This signature is 100% a PVP imbalance which will make fighting any and all templars a living nightmare.

Oshea_OK

I am a solo Oakensoul HA player and some of the skills set ups are not optimized for this.

The 2 second animation for the Staff and Fighter's guild skills are too long for Heavy attack weaving on HA Oakensoul builds. It takes away DPS rather than adds to it. There are a few solutions for this. For lightning Staff HA weaving, the Elemental Explosion is a perfect compliment, except for the long animation. Maybe you can add a Heavy Attack 10-15% for 20 seconds buff on this Skill to help compensate for the DPS loss?

In general Staff Heavy Attack playstyle needs some more loving in these new Skills.

Also for the playstyle just mentioned I usually lack penetration and so I need AOE Breech debuffs. I can get this from the new Soul Burst, however, this skill is the best skill for shield and health and utility, but these options takes away the breech defuff. It would be wonderful if you could add the Breech debuff if you chose to use the shield option on Soul Burst. Another suggestion for an AOE breech debuff, would be to add it to the Elemental Explosion.

The shield option for wield Soul, is not good. To not know if the shield will go to me or someone is unreliably and unhelpful. Please make it one or the other, or both. Maybe to You and the next closet ally, but not knowing is not not helpful.

Thanks for reading my comments and the consideration.

Theist_VII

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

verminjerky wrote: »

As a Templar DPS main, I don't like the Templar class mastery.

Activate Light Weaver for 4 seconds, increasing your Armor by 33k and snaring you by 50%. If you are at 50% or less Health, gain 1 Ultimate.

I appreciate that ZOS is trying to give some tanking stuff to a class that's not used for tanking but... nobody uses Templar for tanking. This feels like a more appropriate class mastery for a well-used tank class like DK, which also synergizes with DK's incredibly strong ultimates and ultimate-based passive. (Templar doesn't even have a tanking ult.)

It's also the only class mastery with a downside. 😩 Why did ZOS stop loving Templar?

It would be okay without that massive snare, Templar is long known for its survivability, especially relative to being a melee class, so adding more of that back into the game is not unwelcome. But this class mastery should be aimed at, or at least usable by, DPS and healers, who won't benefit from it without mobility.

I keep seeing "This would be great for tanking... nobody uses the Templar for tanking..."

Maybe ZOS is trying to give Templars better tools to tank? If ZOS keeps feeding Templars non-tanking skills... then Templars are never going to tank.

I don't know where this train of thought is coming from exactly? PVE tanks do not need +33k armor, when 33k armor is the PVE cap and it's easily reached by other means. This signature is 100% a PVP imbalance which will make fighting any and all templars a living nightmare.

Right, I feel like it stems from a lack of understanding with how armor stacking actually works.

It’s not common knowledge to people that anything after 33k is useless because the game doesn’t really tell you that, and I honestly feel as though it should.

An easy solution to this could be, when your number hits over 33k, it should appear red as long as battle spirit isn’t being applied in your stat screen, and when you highlight it, it should explain.

Lalothen

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It's really weird that you added long cast times to abilities such as Trample, Elemental Explosion, and Torchbearer. I guarantee players will not enjoy using these despite them looking incredibly cool. It's really unfortunate.

Smash has a low 0.6s cast time, so I can see some players managing to enjoy it despite the fact because it fits in the 1s GCD. On that subject, why is it called "Smash" when it should be called "Scoop" based on that awkward animation?

Suggestions:

• Trample = 0.8s cast time, 2s travel time, so about a 3s cooldown.... OR... make it behave more like Warden's Scorch where it's instant, but an obvious delay shown on the caster of 3s before it fires out.
• Elemental Explosion = Instant, but add a growing AOE field telegraph on the floor that takes 3-4s to complete. This allows Destruction staff users to use Ele Explosion AND Impulse together as aoe spammables, where as right now, it feels like they're working against 1 another. Make it like 25% stronger than aoe spammables instead of the current +100% to warrant the delay, this is problematic for PVP providing more burst than ultimate's like Dawnbreaker where people at the back of groups will spam it.
• Torchbearer = 0.8s cast time, similar to jabs. Reduce damage or ticks accordingly.

All of the above changes would fix how clunky these skills feel, while still allowing for counterplay and better use of them in rotations. ESO players hate cast times, please do everything in your power to make them instant or at the very least fit within the 1s global cooldown.

These are good change suggestions, as these three cast time abilities feel incredibly clunky right now.

I'd LOVE to be able to use any of them in my builds, but whilst I can see the defensive potential of Elemental Explosion in Cyro Keep PvP (though the ready availability of ballistae & catapults with longer range and the ability to fire without direct character LoS makes it semi-redundant in that respect), I just cannot envision making good use of either of the others in PvP or PvE except for when I'm messing around.

One thing I've noted which is both good and bad, is that all three abilities can be cast whilst moving. This is good from the point of view that you're not wasting a cast because you have to move (nice from both a PvP & PvE perspective), but also VERY BAD from the point of view of ball groups who will have members casting particularly Trample & Elemental Explosion on-the-move for massive burst damage.

ESO_Nightingale

Tannus15 wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Telos_Tim wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

Could any players who've played with scribing a bit tell me:

Is there anything scribed that could replace Barbed Trap?

No, all of the damage-over-time, and healing-over-time scripts attached to the skills are extremely small values, to the point where they are mostly useless.

Honestly I would like to see it changed, especially for my Necromancer that has the now two as of last patch, damage increases to DoTs.

with the exception of travelling knife, scribing skills don't do enough damage.

I think they are so concerned about messing up balance they the whole thing is going to be seriously underwhelming. Yet another missed opportunity

No because if they did too much damage it would become scribing online.... it has to be balanced in such a way that scribing can potentially fill gaps for playstyle, but without being an outright better option than other things.

The key word here is "too much"

They went to all this trouble to work out how much damage a spammable should dot and how much a dot should do, and then they made scribing do less than that.
It makes no sense.

Also, why not? Why can't he new thing be as good or even *gasp* better than the old thing.
This kind of mentality means that nothing good can ever be added because then people might use it.

agreed. let stuff be op and fun and nerf it later.

wsmith97ub17_ESO

Judging by the responses, I'm beating a dead horse, but I have to add the following:

STOP with cast times in 2024. It does not feel good in any game.

STOP with hideously long animations. It does not feel good in any game.

BasP

First off, I like Scribing in general! I'd really prefer it if the length of the effects from the Signature and Affix Scripts would match, however.

For example, when I add the Lingering Torment Signature Script to Wield Soul the DOT lasts 20 seconds, while the buff from the Brutality and Sorcery Affix Script only lasts 10 seconds. So I'd have to recast the skill early, wasting half of the DOT, or only have 50% up time on the Affix Script. It'd make more sense to me if Brutality and Sorcery (along with the other Affix Scripts that can be added to Wield Soul) would last 20 seconds as well.

For other skills, such as Soul Burst, Contingency and Smash it's the other way around - the Lingering Torment DOT only lasts 5/6 seconds while buffs like Courage, Force and Berserk last 10/12 seconds. In these cases, I think the skills would be better if the Lingering Torment DOT would be increased to 10/12 seconds to match the Affix Scripts.

It'd also be nice, as others have said, if more Damage Types will be added to the skills later on. I hoped I could create more skills that dealt Frost Damage, but I reckon that it's too late to add more damage types during this PTS cycle.

JerBearESO

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

Judging by the responses, I'm beating a dead horse, but I have to add the following:

STOP with cast times in 2024. It does not feel good in any game.

STOP with hideously long animations. It does not feel good in any game.

No I like these things as long as the added timing is properly balanced against. The wind up to a big boom feels nice when done right. Without these variables we miss a lot of opportunity for variation in design.

Though I will say, I don't think ESO exactly does it right. That is, after the wind up, it will likely only ever feel like a wet noodle.... this is for overall balance BECAUSE there's no cooldown to balance against; cooldowns can justify things going beyond an otherwise overly restrictive power budget. See how the loss of a core variable in design impacts things?

MashmalloMan

Jsmalls wrote: »

For abilities that have the option of being Martial or Magical damage type, the Martial always tool-tips higher.

This would be understandable if there were melee range requirements but that is not the case. These should be adjusted according to range or melee standards not damage type.

This isn't true, the damage type does not determine the damage values, there is no favouritism over martial or magical elements. I'll refer you to @skinnycheeks spreadsheet here:

https://tinyurl.com/3jd74jva

I'm assuming you're a Sorc main. Sorc's Energized passive for +5% physical and +5% shock damage is currently bugged. The tooltips for shock grimoires do not update, while physical damage does.

This issue is actually flipped for DK's World in Ruin passive. The +5% poison damage doesn't show on the tooltips, but the +5% flame damage does.

On the dummy, I tried all versions of shock skills with and without the Sorc passive, and all of them improved with it while having the same tooltips. I have not tested DK with/without their passive on the dummy, but it looks to be the same situation.

MashmalloMan

Lalothen wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It's really weird that you added long cast times to abilities such as Trample, Elemental Explosion, and Torchbearer. I guarantee players will not enjoy using these despite them looking incredibly cool. It's really unfortunate.

Smash has a low 0.6s cast time, so I can see some players managing to enjoy it despite the fact because it fits in the 1s GCD. On that subject, why is it called "Smash" when it should be called "Scoop" based on that awkward animation?

Suggestions:

• Trample = 0.8s cast time, 2s travel time, so about a 3s cooldown.... OR... make it behave more like Warden's Scorch where it's instant, but an obvious delay shown on the caster of 3s before it fires out.
• Elemental Explosion = Instant, but add a growing AOE field telegraph on the floor that takes 3-4s to complete. This allows Destruction staff users to use Ele Explosion AND Impulse together as aoe spammables, where as right now, it feels like they're working against 1 another. Make it like 25% stronger than aoe spammables instead of the current +100% to warrant the delay, this is problematic for PVP providing more burst than ultimate's like Dawnbreaker where people at the back of groups will spam it.
• Torchbearer = 0.8s cast time, similar to jabs. Reduce damage or ticks accordingly.

All of the above changes would fix how clunky these skills feel, while still allowing for counterplay and better use of them in rotations. ESO players hate cast times, please do everything in your power to make them instant or at the very least fit within the 1s global cooldown.

These are good change suggestions, as these three cast time abilities feel incredibly clunky right now.

I'd LOVE to be able to use any of them in my builds, but whilst I can see the defensive potential of Elemental Explosion in Cyro Keep PvP (though the ready availability of ballistae & catapults with longer range and the ability to fire without direct character LoS makes it semi-redundant in that respect), I just cannot envision making good use of either of the others in PvP or PvE except for when I'm messing around.

One thing I've noted which is both good and bad, is that all three abilities can be cast whilst moving. This is good from the point of view that you're not wasting a cast because you have to move (nice from both a PvP & PvE perspective), but also VERY BAD from the point of view of ball groups who will have members casting particularly Trample & Elemental Explosion on-the-move for massive burst damage.

Whats more confusing is Ele Explosion has very little counter-play where it will actually be used, despite being designed in an annoying way to provide obvious counter-play via the long cast time.

From what I can tell, the danger telegraph on the floor only appears once the cast time of the ability finishes instead of during the entire cast time. Minimum projectile time should be 300 milliseconds, so in melee range you have 0.3s, at 28m+ you may have 0.4 to 0.6s to react if I were to guess. I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong. The person I dueled with told me it happened after the cast, not during.

All this does is enforce ball groups to spam this at the back of their pack like mortar strikes which you have barely any time to react to. The whole cast time argument is moot when you can't even see who is casting it.

The time in which it takes to hurt you is MUCH quicker than something like Dark Convergence despite having a similar power budget, of which is on a massive cooldown. DC takes 1s after landing to pull, giving time for the telegraph to block the pull, then it gives you 3 remaining seconds to exit the aoe before you take damage. It's very easy to avoid if you pay attention.

Ele Explosion on the other hand deals more burst than Dawnbreaker of Smiting when combined with the guaranteed status effects, using a 28m range and 10m radius, debuffing with minor maim, minor vulnerability, minor magicka steal, and minor brittle or off-balance as the most obvious affixes to choose. It's basically a 200 cost ultimate with a low 3780 mag cost (effectively 1890 since it takes 2 GCDs instead of 1) which you can spam. This thing should really cost 5k+ magicka in its current design.

Even in scenario's where you can interrupt it, as soon as the user is CC immune they will be able to freely cast this at least 3 times before you can interrupt it again.

Group PVP is going to be a nightmare dealing with unless they change it. Making it instant with a 3-4s ground telegraph and about 30% less damage will make it more fun to use for everyone in PVE or PVP, allow you to avoid it/block it easier, combo's better with other abilities, and becomes harder on sustain as it should be. Win/win/win.

Necrotech_Master

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

CordingOnyx wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

As such, I don't think the issue is the execute scaling or oblivion damage but it applies above 50% hp. If they made it only apply the oblivion damage when below 50% hp it would be pretty balanced.

Alternatively, I'd like them to make this a true execute.
"Reduces the initial damage by 40% but now consumes soul gems to deal up to 400% additional magic when the target is below 50% hp." This would make it work as a true execute.

What do you think of my suggestion?

huh, i actually dont hate that... maybe the 400% is a bit much since it that would make it do 8% more damage per 1% health under 50%. maybe 100% ~ 150% so it doesn't replace class executes but it a decent stand in if a class doesn't have one.

Thanks!

I chose 400% simply because it was the same as executioner. Radiant Oppression is up to 500% if I recall and is ranged which can easily hit 12k-15k tool tips. It isn't uncommon to get hit for 8k a tick from the beam and a full channel hitting for over 20k+ damage when you're low.

I think the point is that changing it to magic damage so that it doesn't bypass armour and can't be abused by tank builds vs other players - something oblivion damage can be given it is a flat value - would be best. The % bonus on the execute needs to scale from 50% hp down to 0% but as to how much bonus you get can be tweaked. I felt 400% felt reasonable to be in line with executioner.

As for replacing class executes - executioner is a 2h skill. I think you are right in you don't want to replace them but by slashing that initial hit by 60% (10k spamable becomes 4k execute) is still less than executioner which often gets 4.7-6k+ tool tips when the builds spamable is around 10k. You could decrease the 400% to 350% or 300% but it needs to be worthwhile or it won't be used over weapon executes unless mag.

i kind of like this idea, but i think the reasoning they went light on the execute is because its oblivion dmg, which ignores armor, shields, and all forms of mitigation

8% oblivion dmg base is almost 1/10 of max hp, from what i remember the execute portion as it is now is up to 100% more dmg when enemy is under 50% hp, so when an enemy is at 25% hp, they would be taking 50% more dmg, or about 12% oblivion dmg (8% base + 4% for 50% execute scale)

if it scaled to say 400%, at 25% the enemy would be taking 24% oblivion dmg (which would be almost enough to kill them at that point) if your base dmg was the same 8% oblivion, so if they were any less hp they would basically just get instant killed

if you want more aggressive execute scaling the base oblivion dmg would have to be dropped significantly

Turtle_Bot

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

For abilities that have the option of being Martial or Magical damage type, the Martial always tool-tips higher.

This would be understandable if there were melee range requirements but that is not the case. These should be adjusted according to range or melee standards not damage type.

This isn't true, the damage type does not determine the damage values, there is no favouritism over martial or magical elements. I'll refer you to @skinnycheeks spreadsheet here:

https://tinyurl.com/3jd74jva

I'm assuming you're a Sorc main. Sorc's Energized passive for +5% physical and +5% shock damage is currently bugged. The tooltips for shock grimoires do not update, while physical damage does.

This issue is actually flipped for DK's World in Ruin passive. The +5% poison damage doesn't show on the tooltips, but the +5% flame damage does.

On the dummy, I tried all versions of shock skills with and without the Sorc passive, and all of them improved with it while having the same tooltips. I have not tested DK with/without their passive on the dummy, but it looks to be the same situation.

Thanks for testing and clarifying this, I was looking forward to finally having a real shock damage spammable then saw the tooltip difference and was immediately disappointed.
Nice to know its a visual(?) bug with the tooltip not applying the Energized passive for shock damage and not the skills damage itself being reduced. Hopefully it gets fixed before going live.

MashmalloMan

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

For abilities that have the option of being Martial or Magical damage type, the Martial always tool-tips higher.

This would be understandable if there were melee range requirements but that is not the case. These should be adjusted according to range or melee standards not damage type.

This isn't true, the damage type does not determine the damage values, there is no favouritism over martial or magical elements. I'll refer you to @skinnycheeks spreadsheet here:

https://tinyurl.com/3jd74jva

I'm assuming you're a Sorc main. Sorc's Energized passive for +5% physical and +5% shock damage is currently bugged. The tooltips for shock grimoires do not update, while physical damage does.

This issue is actually flipped for DK's World in Ruin passive. The +5% poison damage doesn't show on the tooltips, but the +5% flame damage does.

On the dummy, I tried all versions of shock skills with and without the Sorc passive, and all of them improved with it while having the same tooltips. I have not tested DK with/without their passive on the dummy, but it looks to be the same situation.

Thanks for testing and clarifying this, I was looking forward to finally having a real shock damage spammable then saw the tooltip difference and was immediately disappointed.
Nice to know its a visual(?) bug with the tooltip not applying the Energized passive for shock damage and not the skills damage itself being reduced. Hopefully it gets fixed before going live.

They are still 3.3% weaker because of the missing ranks that I mentioned on page 1 here, but it's not a huge deal with the other bonuses it gives, especially for Sorc where we have terrible dot/debuff access. Shock Wield Soul will be pretty good for Sorcs. FP/CS is probably a better spammable, but Wield Soul is a 2, even 3 for 1 combo by giving execute or dot + major breach. Things we need.

I still hope they just include the 3.3% damage at minimum. Weird to treat grimoires as rank 1 base skills instead of at least rank 1 morphed skills. Rank 4 morphed skills get tricky because they go towards cost, damage, utility, etc depending on the ability.

Won't fix Soul Magic being a terrible skill line though. Soul Burst and Contingency are essentially the same thing, but they buffed Contingency to account for the delay it has. Contingency deals 10% more damage, has -7% cost, then also has all the Mages guild passives for +20% duration (works on dot and affix buffs/debuffs), 10s Empower, 2% mag/reg, and -15% cost. On my stam pvp build, Contingency had -800 cost.

The only thing propping up Soul Burst right now is Oblivion Damage (which probably won't make it to live), the pull, and that you can reliably instant cast it in a pinch, but both abilities are effectively the same as an 8m radius damage, heal, or shield.

From a PVP perspective, Flame Contingency hits another 13% more because of Vampires. That cost reduction and duration increase is important. The delay is a good thing for burst, not a bad thing.

Erickson9610

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Before the PTS, I listed some potential ideas for Grimoires for the Werewolf skill line, since Werewolf players currently have no access to any Scribing skills:

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'll list a few ideas for potential Werewolf Grimoires:

• Bite — A simple biting attack, much like the one Werewolf Behemoth has.
  • Focus Scripts: Physical Damage, Bleed Damage, Disease Damage, or Taunt
  • Signature Scripts: Class Mastery, Damage Over Time, Snare, Extend Werewolf Transformation, or Healing
  • Affix Scripts: Interrupt, Breach, Maim, Resolve, or Expedition
• Rampage — A channeled attack where the user swipes with their claws four times and then bites twice, similar in a sense to Puncturing Strikes; this ability reuses the animation that NPC werewolves sometimes use. Maybe this ability deals more damage for each subsequent hit (like Rapid Strikes), or has execute scaling damage.
  • Focus Scripts: Physical Damage or Bleed Damage
  • Signature Scripts: Class Mastery, Damage Over Time, Snare, or Extend Werewolf Transformation
  • Affix Scripts: Interrupt, Maim, or Breach
• Hunter's Grounds — A ground AoE effect, similar to Cleansing Ritual. The idea is to make this skill thematic to Hircine and The Hunting Grounds.
  • Focus Scripts: Magic Damage, Poison Damage, Pull, Immobilize, Healing, or Damage Shield
  • Signature Scripts: Class Mastery, Damage Over Time, Snare, Healing, Extend Werewolf Transformation, or Defiance (Purge)
  • Affix Scripts: Expedition, Resolve, Courage, Intellect and Endurance, Breach, or Magickasteal

I'll follow up later with more refined feedback and suggestions, now that we have access to the PTS and a full list of all available Scripts. Please consider the underlying concepts of these ideas as potential candidates for one or more Werewolf Grimoires, because Werewolf players would like to participate in Scribing, too.

Now that I've had time to test the Scribing system, I'd like to refine my suggestions here.

• Savage Bite (Somewhat like Werewolf Behemoth's "Bite" attack. Single target ability where the werewolf bites the target. I don't recall a single biting animation for the standard Werewolf armature, but there are examples in other Werewolf animations where they bite.)
  • Sundering Bite (Physical Damage), Bloody Bite (Bleed Damage), Pestilent Bite (Disease Damage), Goading Bite (Taunt), Traumatic Bite (Trauma)
  • Class Mastery, Hunter's Snare, Assassin's Misery, Wayfarer's Mastery, Leeching Thirst, Immobilizing Strike, Lingering Torment, Warmage's Defense, Warrior's Opportunity
  • Berserk, Expedition, Maim, Off Balance, Vulnerability, Savagery and Prophecy, Resolve, Breach, Mangle, Evasion, Brutality and Sorcery, Cowardice, Defile, Interrupt
• Relentless Rampage (Somewhat like Torchbearer. Channeled cone ability where the werewolf swipes with their claws 3 times in quick succession, reusing the Werewolf animation that plays when opening doors in Werewolf form. It used to be accessible via the "/smash" emote before the ability to use emotes in Werewolf form was disabled.)
  • Sundering Rampage (Physical Damage), Bloody Rampage (Bleed Damage), Pestilent Rampage (Disease Damage), Dazing Rampage (Stun), Repelling Rampage (Knockback), Traumatic Rampage (Trauma), Binding Rampage (Immobilize)
  • Class Mastery, Hunter's Snare, Lingering Torment, Warrior's Opportunity, Gladiator's Tenacity, Warmage's Defense, Fencer's Parry, Sage's Remedy, Leeching Thirst, Immobilizing Strike, Knight's Valor
  • Brutality and Sorcery, Savagery and Prophecy, Lifesteal, Off Balance, Mangle, Interrupt, Maim, Resolve, Expedition, Force, Empower, Defile
• Hunter's Grounds (Somewhat like Secluded Grove or Ritual of Retribution. Ground AoE effect themed after The Hunting Grounds. Maybe this skill reuses the animation Werewolves do when they revive a player, where they hold their hand towards the ground. It could also just reuse the same "howling" animation as Hircine's Bounty.)
  • [Like Mender's Bond, this ability doesn't change its name via prefix] Magic Damage, Poison Damage, Dispel, Pull, Restore Resources, Mitigation, Immobilize, Healing, Damage Shield, Generate Ultimate
  • Class Mastery, Hunter's Snare, Immobilizing Strike, Lingering Torment, Thief's Swiftness, Wayfarer's Mastery, Warrior's Opportunity, Sage's Remedy, Druid's Resurgence, Crusader's Defiance, Growing Impact, Gladiator's Tenacity, Knight's Valor, Thief's Swiftness
  • Vitality, Breach, Evasion, Resolve, Protection, Courage, Expedition, Intellect and Endurance, Magickasteal, Berserk, Vulnerability, Cowardice, Brutality and Sorcery, Savagery and Prophecy, Defile

Because the implementation of each Script is different for each Grimoire, it's hard to say what they'd look like for any of these. However, I am confident that Wayfarer's Mastery, which relates to that skill line's passives in some way, will undoubtedly extend the duration of your Werewolf Transformation, possibly by proccing the Blood Rage passive.

It's also worth noting that because Werewolf has to swap out one of their existing 5 skills in order to use a Werewolf Grimoire, buffs such as Major Brutality and Sorcery (which is granted passively for slotting Hircine's Bounty and its morphs) would no longer be redundant as those skills might be swapped out, and so those buffs should be optional for Werewolf Grimoires so as to not punish Werewolf players for swapping the wrong skills out.

Also, while transformed, Werewolves themselves cannot generate Ultimate, but they can still use the Generate Ultimate Focus Script and the Heroism Affix Script on support/healer-oriented abilities to grant their non-Werewolf allies Ultimate. It might even be used to help allied Werewolves who lost form to get it back sooner.


Regarding the Werewolf Grimoire ideas I've listed:

• In particular, I think "Repelling Rampage" ("Relentless Rampage" with Knockback) would be fun to use with Werewolf, as it'd remind me of how in TES V: Skyrim, I was able to fling enemies across the room with a heavy attack in Werewolf form. It would be a lot of fun to be able to fling enemies around again.
• A biting attack is probably the most thematically appropriate skill for Werewolf, and it'd be an easy way to make the Werewolf version of Puncture, if the Taunt Focus Script and the Breach Affix Script were used on it. It would be a decent spammable to replace Piercing Howl on my Werewolf skill bar. Plus, some of the names (like "Traumatic Bite") sound really funny to me.
• And I really like the thematic idea behind "Hunter's Grounds", plus I think it'd be useful for giving Werewolves the ability to crossheal one another, or it could be used as a tanking buff skill or as a damage dealer ground DoT skill. This one is the most versatile of the bunch in that sense.

Again, I do hope that one or more of these ideas are considered. Werewolf players would be happy with at least one Grimoire they can play with. I'd also like to see what ideas ZOS comes up with for Werewolf Grimoires.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

Lalothen

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Group PVP is going to be a nightmare dealing with unless they change it. Making it instant with a 3-4s ground telegraph and about 30% less damage will make it more fun to use for everyone in PVE or PVP, allow you to avoid it/block it easier, combo's better with other abilities, and becomes harder on sustain as it should be. Win/win/win.

100% agree.

It's also funny you mention DC actually, because I was thinking about the amount of ranged AoE burst you could line up with DC, Explosion as-is, and a ranged burst Ult. Which reminds me that I need to check how Explosion works with regard to triggering DC: at cast start or cast finish (I'm assuming cast start).

Yamenstein

Tannus15 wrote: »

The more I look at this the more depressed I get.

The numbers don't work. I'll give you the simple run down of scribing as a DPS.

Unless you need a specific buff from a scribing ability, do NOT use them.

If you can get the buff from any other source, you're better off doing that.

Scribing abilities are LITERALLY the worst option, the option of last resort.

I'm sorry, but there it is.

I’m curious if it comes down

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

Judging by the responses, I'm beating a dead horse, but I have to add the following:

STOP with cast times in 2024. It does not feel good in any game.

STOP with hideously long animations. It does not feel good in any game.

Got that right. It just takes you out of the flow.

RandomKodiak

With DW Multi Script, Sorc Class script on a DW/2H melee Sorc no pets and Meteor as Ulti I managed to hit 103k on Trial dummy. Not game breaking but compared to these past few years much better. Took the exact same build to a friends house where they have a 28 mini dummy group and hit 698k and killed all 28 in 8 sec. I would argue for dungeons and PUG trials that is viable as a spamable.

RandomKodiak

Multi target from above post sorry 13 sec not 8 that was a different parse.

Oshea_OK

Bug report for Staff Skill.

I made a Staff skill "Fiery Explosion."

1. Deals 1500 flame damage.
2. Grants a Damage Shield for 5561 for 6 seconds.
3. Sets Enemies Off Balance for 7 Seconds.

It does not grant or at the very least there is no visual indication I have damage shield, nor does it show on my health bar that I have a damage shield, and so I assume I am not getting the damage shield.

Oshea_OK

Bug report.

With the soul skill "Warding Burst"
1. Grants damage shield.
2. health recovery.
3. Minor Resolve.

When testing soloing a boss, I noticed the skill would simply not execute when the battling was intense. This happed several times during the fight. My other skill did not have this problem.

TheDarkRuler

I feel that those Scribing Skills should not unlock characterwise.
It is fine to do the quests all over again but the progress should be saved account-wide.

nokturnihs

If this remains a character only unlock my interest in the gold road chapter. If scribing is instead an account-wide thing similar to collections then fine. Otherwise it's absolutely not worth doing more than once and If you have alts it actually discourages the update due to increased frustration. I'm sure there's gonna be crown store unlocks too but frankly speaking that's garbage. We're already paying for the chapter. Paying twice for the major new gameplay feature on a per alt basis isn't interesting at all. Worse for potential new players.

Yamenstein

nokturnihs wrote: »

If this remains a character only unlock my interest in the gold road chapter. If scribing is instead an account-wide thing similar to collections then fine. Otherwise it's absolutely not worth doing more than once and If you have alts it actually discourages the update due to increased frustration. I'm sure there's gonna be crown store unlocks too but frankly speaking that's garbage. We're already paying for the chapter. Paying twice for the major new gameplay feature on a per alt basis isn't interesting at all. Worse for potential new players.

That’s just ZoS MO though. It’s bound to happen. It makes them money and promotes their crown store. ESO probably has the worst money store I’ve come across - at least top 3 for certain. You think you’re buying something but then ZoS just makes it so time consuming to unlock more than once they just push the crown store your way to ease your burdens.


Hopefully the grimoires and other items that go into scribing can be traded and bought via guild stores.

mielyn

I finally had some time this weekend to get onto PTS and then spent about 2 hours testing out the scribing system. I was specifically looking at how it will affect PVP, although some of this may also be applicable to PVE.

Here are my findings:

ISSUE #1:
There is a ranged AOE abililty that allows you to add a DISPEL ingredient. This ingredient removes all negative AOE ground effects in a relatively wide area (I believe it's about 10m). It does have a 2s cast time, which is helpful. And it does take into account LOS if you are moving during those 2s. However, in the end, this ability can effectively remove a NEGATE placed on the ground. While I didn't test it, I would assume that it would also remove other ultimate abilities that are "on the ground", including Shifting Standard.

Secondarily, there is another spell that I scribed along with the charging horse skill that removes one SHIELD from an enemy. We tested this thoroughly and, much like the above example, it DOES indeed remove powerful shields such as BARRIER. I must assume that it would also remove MAGMA ARMOR.

My problem with the above two skills is primarily that I feel that this is too strong of an ability to have on a regular non-ultimate skill.

SOLUTION: Keep this new skill much like it is now, except make it so that it does NOT work on ULTIMATES. Ultimate abilities cost a lot, take a long time to re-cast, and should be more powerful than any regular "skill" in the game (including spell scribing skills).


ISSUE #2:
LASTLY: I want to comment on the AOE knock back aspect which can be applied to the ranged ability mentioned above in my DISPEL paragraph. This AOE knockback is too powerful for a regular skill. Compare it to DK leap. DK leap is an ultimate (which again, ultimates that behave similar to skills should ALWAYS be more powerful than any single spammable skill). Further, DK leap requires the player to jump INTO the fray (putting him or herself in danger). Lastly, DK leap only knocks back players 4m. This new skill from spell scribing has a HUGE knockback. (I forgot the exact number, but it's at least 2x the DK knockback. Possibly more.) And, as you can see from videos posted on YouTube, this skill can and will be used to throw people out of keeps. As an AOE ability that can be cast over and over again, ad infinitum.


SOLUTION: Change the knockback to 3m (so that it is slightly less than DK leap.)

mielyn

Oshea_OK wrote: »

Bug report for Staff Skill.

I made a Staff skill "Fiery Explosion."

1. Deals 1500 flame damage.
2. Grants a Damage Shield for 5561 for 6 seconds.
3. Sets Enemies Off Balance for 7 Seconds.

It does not grant or at the very least there is no visual indication I have damage shield, nor does it show on my health bar that I have a damage shield, and so I assume I am not getting the damage shield.

I don't think that's a bug per say... you can replicate a similar damage shield effect that does not show up on your health bar by equipment an Ice Staff and casting Unstable Wall of Elements. You can see the visual (an icy barrier around your toon), and there is a unique buff applied to yourself while the damage shield persists. However, it does not show up on your health bar like other damage shields do (Barrier, Sorc Ward, Light armor damage shield, etc.). So I'm guessing that this new effect you mentioned above works in a similar fashion.

Ellis_Salamandis

It’s my turn to share my impressions of Scribing.

I would like to express my deep gratitude to ZOS for the fact that they undertake such experiments and try to diversify the gaming experience by providing new tools. The idea behind this system is simply wonderful! It fits perfectly into the world of the Scrolls and looks like an integral part. Very beautiful animation, everything looks impressive and damn beautiful, I, as a person who really suffers from effects and animations (due to the fact that they are very bright), feel very comfortable.
There are things that I would like to change, if possible:
1. I was very confused by the speed of the animation, I often take part in pvp content than in pve, so such long casts can be easily disrupted. I think that for pve this will be quite critical, because mobs can stun, knock down castes, inflict fear, etc. I would like to have some kind of protection against the cast being disrupted or to reduce the time of this very animation.
2. Considering that after the last update the status effects were so heavily redesigned, I would really like the skills to have more types of damage and for them to be the same for all skills. This way you can really assemble assemblies effectively, because this is a real construction kit that can fully satisfy your assembly needs, in which case you really feel the freedom of choice and you don’t have to settle for something less.
3. It often happens that you try different builds, both mana and stamina builds. I would like the new skills to have the same dynamic cost, so that if you have a stamina build, then the cost of a skill, for example from the Mages Guild, costs stamina, not magic. This would greatly facilitate the balance between resources during the build process.
4. If this is possible, then it would be very cool if the updated battle cry of blue color was also blue on the skill panel itself, this very refreshes the usual skill and the appearance of the panel, the same goes for other skills whose color can be changed . And of course, I would like to have more options for changing the color of skills.

And the team did a great job and it’s just incredible! We'll be waiting for the new chapter on the live servers

MashmalloMan

nwilliams2107b16_ESO wrote: »

Apologies for question, can’t get on to test, do class passives buff the scribed skills damage? So if I slotted a skill on my Sorc all shock damage, does it benefit from 5% passive buff?

Yes. Tooltip for sorc + shock doesn't update, but it works when you test it on a dummy.

MashmalloMan

@Telos_Tim I tested the -50% from Templar Signature and -40% from Sea Serpent's Coil. I'm sure you tested it too, but I have some math's to hammer home why this is a problem to anyone who hasn't checked it out.

Bonuses used for tests:

Movement speed Bonus = +76% = Major Expedition (30%) + Minor Expedition (15%) + Celerity CP (10%) + 3x Swift (21%)
Sprint Speed Bonus = +19% = CP Passive (4%) + 5 Medium (15%)
Base Movement Speed with Bonuses = 176%
Base Sprint Speed with Bonuses = 235% (Capped to 200%)

Tests:

• 100% = 24.6m/s = Walking
• 140% = 34.5m/s = Sprinting
• 176% = 43.4m/s = Walking + Bonuses
• 136% = 33.4m/s = Walking + Bonuses + SSC
• 126% = 31.1m/s = Walking + Bonuses + LW + SSC
• 200% = 49.3m/s = Sprinting + Bonuses
• 195% = 48.1m/s = Sprinting + Bonuses + SSC
• 185% = 45.6m/s = Sprinting + Bonuses + LW + SSC

Light Weaver (LW) Signature and Sea Serpents Coil (SSC) do not stack. They also do not reduce your movement speed multiplicatively, they're basically the opposite effect of bonuses such as Swift Jewelry or Expedition. This means something like 3x Swift and Major Expedition coupled with LW and SSC would be a net gain of +1% movement speed, completely negating the effect, except you now have +33k armor, major berserk, and major courage. This is incredible bang for your buck.

This also means the snare is not as bad as it sounds. For example when looking at the tests, going from base walk speed with bonuses (176%) to with snares (126%) is actually a 29% reduction, not 50%.

If you look at the sprint tests, you'll see it goes from 200% to 185%, only -15%, this is because my actual sprint speed before the cap is 235%, -50% = 185%. This why building your sprint speed above the cap is still beneficial, your effective cap is actually 250% when using LW or 240% when using only SSC.

Want to get higher than my tests? Go 7x Divines + Steed Mundus for +16% movement speed. 7 Med instead of the 5 I used for +6% sprint speed. I also didn't include CC breaking from Medium, this means you'd get another +14% movement speed. So total with these 2 changes and CC break would be 206% walking, 271% sprinting, with the snare; 156% walking, 200% sprinting.

I didn't get a chance to test snares applied from enemies, but my theory is there is 2 categories for snares which is why people get confused by what does or doesn't stack. Within a category, you are only effected by the highest value, but both categories can be applied to you at the same time which is why you can feel like you're reduced to 0%.

Category 1 = Enemy applied snares like Ash Cloud (-70%), Rending Slashes (-30%), etc. If you were hit by both of these, it's not -100% (additive) and not -79% (multiplicative), it's only the -70% because the highest value trumps the lower one. I do not know if this category is additive or multiplicative against you or where it falls in the formula.

Category 2 = Self applied snares like SSC (-40%), Ironblood (-25%), and the new Templar Signature (-50%). If you have all 3 of these, you're only taking -50%. I know this category is additive against your movement speed bonuses.

Theist_VII

Right, as someone who hates that feeling of being coerced into a spec by bad game design, this Class Mastery will destroy all of my remaining love for the class of Templar.

The difference between people that run this Mastery with Sea Serpent’s Coil and the people who don’t will be as wide as a chasm.

ZDunlain

Telos_Tim wrote: »

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

Telos_Tim wrote: »

33,000 resistance is the cap on how much damage you can prevent, meaning, when you have all of your heavy armor on that’s required due to the amazing tank passives you get from it, and combine your additional resistance from the Balanced Warrior passive… the class mastery will ONLY apply a 50% snare to you, with no benefit whatsoever.

You could run on less then soft cap in PVE in places like vAS for example. You only need resists when Olms swipes and jumps and for occasional Llothis cone. So you get some nice semi-spammable DPS skill and tank butt naked in glass cannon build doing 70k+ DPS as MT

You mean every other second? Olms basic attacks kill you in cap resistance if you drop block, which you will if you’re in light armor with their uniquely horrible tanking passives…

Not to mention, there are already options available in the game to tank in medium armor, that are both better and more efficient than using our Class Mastery, you have the Esoteric Environment Greaves that tack on 50% mitigation at the cost of stam, something that someone wearing medium armor would have no problem sparing.

On my friend’s PvP build, using 3 damage sets, they sit at 33k resistance buffed with a 3 heavy, 3 medium, 1 light setup using all protective jewelry on their defending dual wield bar, here’s their front bar sitting at 31k, easily…



Resistance is so easily sourced, this mastery provides nothing new, or impactful in PvE.

That seems really good for duels but in bg and cyro it will be dead really easy with that low sustain/movement speed