Hardened Ward heal making it to live is a mistake and needs to be changed

xylena_lazarow · August 23

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

All you see now is everyone using “Wield Soul” in any kind of aspect

This is great though, because there are so many variants of it, unique to various builds, enabling a more diverse meta by filling the gaps in builds that were previously held back from the top tiers. Scribing gives MagSorc in particular a ton more bar flexibility, which is the buff it's really needed for a long time and the right way to do it, not the broken op Ward.

Ren_TheRedFox · August 23

@xylena_lazarow don't get me wrong, but sorcs already have the best buffs in the game in just a few skills like bound aegis or encase, they don't need more buffs .... to be fair though scribing has made everyone stronger, but sorcs benefit the most from it.
A few years ago when class identity and player roles mattered, only certain classes could get buffs like vitality or protection etc. Nowadays everyone has all buffs in 2-3 skills and it's just an endless fight.

Jsmalls · August 23

I kind of want to keep this on the down low, but Sorc Wield Soul (Shock or Physical) with the class mastery is BUSTED after patch 43 (they corrected Sorc passive on shock, buffed the focus 3% and buffed the mastery 6.6%).

I'm getting a spammable with a major debuff (cowardice/defile/breach) that tooltips for 5% less than curse (in my case a 17k tooltip spammable).

TechMaybeHic · August 23

Then it really feels weird to wield soul sorc and turn around and wield soul also on templar or something else for that matter. Just trade frags, streak, and curse for metor, javelin, and beam. Range supremacy has gotten super boring

Ren_TheRedFox · August 23

@TechMaybeHic that's pretty much all u get these days ... literally loading into BGs with a minimum of 4 sorcs and 4 nightblades and the rest are just anything ... the current meta is just awful ... not gonna lie I don't think that "PvP update" will help ... the game is just dying and adding all the buffs to the busted classes makes it worse but who cares I guess

Afterip · August 24

I have a suggestion. Let the person who reworked blastbones and arctic blast skills now get to work on hardened ward.

Ren_TheRedFox · August 24

@Afterip lmao love that idea xD Fully support it xD

Turtle_Bot · August 24

Afterip wrote: »

I have a suggestion. Let the person who reworked blastbones and arctic blast skills now get to work on hardened ward.

They did that ~5 years ago when they completely gutted ward into complete uselessness and wanted to destroy it even further with cast times on top of its already unusable state. They only reverted the proposed cast time because it basically deleted sorcerer from the game and the outcry was deafening.

I'd rather ZOS actually listened to, and applied, the constructive feedback being provided in regards to ward (which there has been plenty). Adjust ward so it's in a more balanced state (like it is when you only sit at ~40k mag instead of where it peaks at with 55k+ mag + double vitality), so it's not completely broken, but still remains a good defensive tool.

StaticWave · August 24

Afterip wrote: »

I have a suggestion. Let the person who reworked blastbones and arctic blast skills now get to work on hardened ward.

OH BOY we are in for a good time lmaoo

Ren_TheRedFox · August 24

@Turtle_Bot let's be real here .... they're gonna do what they're always doing .... buff/nerf a skill to the top/ground and revert it later saying "it was over/underperforming so we adjusted it" and all they're doing is basically reverting that skill pretty much to its original state with a little adjustment .... at this point it really just feels like they're trying to "fill" the patch notes with these "changes" but with no intention of actually fixing skills.

IncultaWolf · August 24

Afterip wrote: »

I have a suggestion. Let the person who reworked blastbones and arctic blast skills now get to work on hardened ward.

This should be interesting

Tcholl · September 17

Any thoughts on the Hardened Ward changes everyone? I am curious to read your opinions.

xylena_lazarow · September 17

Afterip wrote: »

I have a suggestion. Let the person who reworked blastbones and arctic blast skills now get to work on hardened ward.

Looks like that person handled NB cloak, while Ward only got a heal scaling nerf. Sorc is still cracked.

Tcholl · September 17

Tnx for the input @xylena_lazarow. I agree, but the patch at least went in a good direction. Maybe, others have different opinions though.

Lucifer9th · September 19

maybe they will add a cap to max ressources for ward in the few iteration of the pts patch to avoid people to abuse stacking so much ressources

Vaqual · September 19

Lucifer9th wrote: »

maybe they will add a cap to max ressources for ward in the few iteration of the pts patch to avoid people to abuse stacking so much ressources

That would be the worst solution. But I feel I argued against that already dozens of pages ago....

xylena_lazarow · September 19

Vaqual wrote: »

That would be the worst solution. But I feel I argued against that already dozens of pages ago....

Arguing player solutions is still pointless, devs neither care about player solutions nor read them. We can hope the combo of vamp 3 nerf and heal scaling nerf is enough, but it's probably not, barring mass zerging you're still healing out of danger just by mashing your face into the Ward button, in between spamming teleports and long range nukes.

taugrim · September 19

StaticWave wrote: »

I tried to warn guys. Even posted screenshots and arguments too. Now enjoy 3 months of Sorc being broken lol.

Actually over 7 months now, by the time U44 goes live.

Sad, sad, sad balancing (or lack thereof).

Some players pointed out recently that the dev who presented the U44 PVP changes plays a healing sorceror. Devs should be balancing classes and abilities based on what's good for the game, not their preferred playstyle.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Afterip wrote: »

I have a suggestion. Let the person who reworked blastbones and arctic blast skills now get to work on hardened ward.

Looks like that person handled NB cloak, while Ward only got a heal scaling nerf. Sorc is still cracked.

Healing Ward getting a 33% nerf to the healing is not enough IMO.

Even with the healing nerf the ability still provides both high scaling of the damage shield and meaningful healing. Pick one. That's balance. But don't have it still doing both.

Tcholl · September 19

I have the impression this was just an emergency nerf due to the large number of complainments, while they deal with cloak. They have tackle NBs now and Sorc is probably next. I might be wrong though.

StaticWave · September 19

The 5% nerf almost changes nothing for builds with 50k+ max mag

At 50k max mag, the heal tooltip is 7500 on the live server, and 5000 on the PTS. With Battle Spirit, that’s a 3375 heal on the live server and 2250 on the PTS. The difference is only 1125 heal, which is negligible.

The issue is magsorcs with 50k+ mag will have around 13k+ shields. You would need to go through that shield first before you can chip away at their HP. Even if magsorcs lose 1125 heal from PTS Ward, all they gotta do is cast Ward 2-3 times and heal back to full (especially if some of them crit heal).

Unfortunately as long as the heal stays a burst heal, you can’t really adjust high max mag builds without screwing over lower max mag builds. Converting it to a HoT would be a better idea. With that 7500 tooltip spread out over 4 seconds, magsorcs would be healed for 1875 tooltip every second. That’s a 843 heal tick which is decent enough but not broken.

Tcholl · September 19

well noted @StaticWave

TechMaybeHic · September 19

I don't think the heal matters that much. Its the scaling that does. If you stack mag enough to get a good heal, you still have a massive shield and don't notice the heal being reduced that much. If you don't stack it that high, you are not really getting that much advantage anyway.

Really; I am playing sorc because it has the survivability of the shield now and reliable ranged damage without procs while melee is just painful in this current meta. Im bored by it, but at least Im not frustrated by as many pulls in melee or just getting nuked in the back by tarnished and other ranged nukes with a reach disadvantage

gamma71 · October 7

What class can counter a sorc? None end of discussion! That's not balance

TechMaybeHic · October 7

gamma71 wrote: »

What class can counter a sorc? None end of discussion! That's not balance

NB if they can combo at the right time, but I wouldn't say it's a counter.

I think it's a lost cause to worry about it at this point. Game has given up on classes. Look for more scribing and proc sets and canned, quick, repeatable content

Navaac223 · October 12

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

gamma71 wrote: »

What class can counter a sorc? None end of discussion! That's not balance

NB if they can combo at the right time, but I wouldn't say it's a counter.

I think it's a lost cause to worry about it at this point. Game has given up on classes. Look for more scribing and proc sets and canned, quick, repeatable content

Zos turned down Skinny Cheeks when he gave them a detailled way of fixing the game. If I wanted to destroy ESO on purpose, I'm not sure I could do a better job than whoever is in charge now

Major_Toughness · October 12

Cyrodiil will die before U45 if no meaningful nerf to Hardened Ward is made.

Practically all of my friends quit because the only thing they like to do is solo/small-scale in Cyrodiil but playing Call of Duty against invincible magsorcs is no fun.

edward_frigidhands · October 30

moo_2021 wrote: »

So what are the counters we can use now? oblivion damage? but it only works against tanky sorcs not max mag builds.

Oblivion damage should still work well since it acts directly on the health bar disregarding shields and mitigation.

Iriidius · October 30

Oblivion dmg against magsorc is even less effektive than normal dmg unless all your dmg is oblivion dmg because a magsorc keeping his shhield up will not block and the dmg under his shield will be healed by hardened ward heal that otherwise would be wasted when you have shield up as you have full hp. And if shield is down it doesnt matter if you get oblivion dmg on hp and same amount of normal dmg on shield or vice versa(if this was possible). Only a mainly/full oblivion dmg build can ignore (shields and block).

Iriidius · October 30

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Cyrodiil will die before U45 if no meaningful nerf to Hardened Ward is made.

Practically all of my friends quit because the only thing they like to do is solo/small-scale in Cyrodiil but playing Call of Duty against invincible magsorcs is no fun.

Hardened Ward just lost a third of its heal threw a nerf, another 2 of those nerfs and heal will be gone and it will be back to previous state before heal added and we know that magsorc was not a good class back then standing in the shadow of stamsorc and it needed a buff, so a balanced version of magsorc should be somewhere between big heal and no heal on shield which it is now.
Cyrodiil is already dying for Years and will continue dying for years without ever finishing, I dont think magsorcs are a major reason for that as there have always been stronger and weaker classes.

xylena_lazarow · October 30

Iriidius wrote: »

Cyrodiil is already dying for Years and will continue dying for years without ever finishing, I dont think magsorcs are a major reason for that as there have always been stronger and weaker classes.

I'd argue they're definitely part of the problem because constant ranged damage spam is miserable to play against, it encourages players to stay on the roof or inside the zerg where they won't immediately be nuked by someone they can't possibly engage or even see on their screen.

There was a MagSorc player on my 8v8 BGs team yesterday who went 30-0 one match, then 10-9 the next, and not because of teammates. That much volatility tells me there's still something very wrong with the way this class is designed. I haven't fought enough good MagSorcs yet to judge the Ward nerf but it might be more effective than it first looked.