Hardened Ward heal making it to live is a mistake and needs to be changed

StaticWave

Quackery wrote: »

You're ONE PERSON complaining about this! The rest of us love this change! Not everyone is as good as you at playing a sorc, so give people a break.

There are more people complaining but they aren’t on the forums.

Using that logic, don’t nerf anything then 🤣. Keep old DC, old plaguebreak, old mDW, etc.

Turtle_Bot

StaticWave wrote: »

I can’t really think of another skill in the Sorc tool kit tbh. Could maybe put it on Rune Prison, but where else would you put it?

I've suggested a couple of skills in the past that should receive this named buff:

- Lightning form/morphs - This was shouted down by the wider community as "overloading the skill" despite the skill being "soo strong" (/s) that it's dropped for a base game monster set....
- The other main option I put forward that seemed more welcomed was replacing the max stats on bound armor (and morphs) with Major Prophecy/Savagery. This hybridizes both morphs of this ability so that DPS (both mag and stam) would take armaments and tanks would take aegis instead of splitting it between stam being the DPS option and mag being the tank option. It also reduces the max mag that a DPS magsorc would be able to build into efficiently meaning full damage builds would instead go max damage for vibrant shroud/blessings + vigor with enough mag for a decent shield instead of stacking full max mag and just running shield + vigor/crit surge only.

It's also not like stamsorc needs the DPS buff more than magsorc, with stamsorc parsing at over 146k DPS while magsorc parsing just below 135k DPS (this data is from skinny cheeks latest video comparing CMX + videos of class parses for this patch).
Both sorcs were pet sorcs with prey + atro + 2 pets, so it was purely a mag v stam comparison and stam is way ahead of mag for DPS, it's not even close.

Rune Prison is an option, but the skill itself would need a complete rework. In its current state it's just not worth slotting, it would have to be turned into a DoT/buff/debuff (rune cage) or HoT/buff/utility (defensive rune)

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I can’t really think of another skill in the Sorc tool kit tbh. Could maybe put it on Rune Prison, but where else would you put it?

Passive double bar major crit buff should be attached to... let's see.

Crystal Shards morphs make sense because there's a number of GCDs where they're unusable.

Lightning Form morphs give a reason to run the armor skill and other monster sets over Chudan and Inner Light.

Surge itself could work, could even convert one morph to a normal HoT with a small heal bonus on crits.

I think if they put it on shards they would have to rework shards/morphs to be less clunky/awkward to use, be that dropping the RNG aspect of the proc or the cast time of the hard cast and doing something else for crystal weapon entirely. (Not that I wouldn't mind this as it would be nice to have an actual reliable spammable in the class kit that's not just another delayed burst ability disguised as a spammable).
I also don't see them doing this for crystal shards with scribing around the corner and the DW, 2h or even mages guild scribing abilities could fill that role with the ability to choose secondary effects and damage types on those abilities.

Of these 3 options I like Lightning form the most, it gives a reason to actually run that ability over chudan (a base game monster set) after all the massive, indirect, mechanical nerfs that ability got over the past 2+ years (tick rate of DoTs, changed from direct damage to DoT (i.e. no longer breaks stealth) and the increase to melee attack range). So many people seemed to think it would make the ability too strong though which I really don't understand how since it has gotten so many indirect nerfs that it's barely a viable option anymore to the point that a base game monster set is just objectively better than this ability...

Surge is an interesting option, but I would rather just have 1 morph (power surge) be a reliable HoT with major sorcery/brutality instead of it's current "heal proc" and have crit surge as its current "lifesteal" HoT for those who enjoy that and put major prophecy/savagery somewhere else in the kit.

xylena_lazarow

Quackery wrote: »

You're ONE PERSON complaining about this! The rest of us love this change! Not everyone is as good as you at playing a sorc, so give people a break.

I'm bad at NB and need a break. We should make Cloak a free cast that lasts 12 seconds and heals you to full.

StaticWave

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I can’t really think of another skill in the Sorc tool kit tbh. Could maybe put it on Rune Prison, but where else would you put it?

I've suggested a couple of skills in the past that should receive this named buff:

- Lightning form/morphs - This was shouted down by the wider community as "overloading the skill" despite the skill being "soo strong" (/s) that it's dropped for a base game monster set....
- The other main option I put forward that seemed more welcomed was replacing the max stats on bound armor (and morphs) with Major Prophecy/Savagery. This hybridizes both morphs of this ability so that DPS (both mag and stam) would take armaments and tanks would take aegis instead of splitting it between stam being the DPS option and mag being the tank option. It also reduces the max mag that a DPS magsorc would be able to build into efficiently meaning full damage builds would instead go max damage for vibrant shroud/blessings + vigor with enough mag for a decent shield instead of stacking full max mag and just running shield + vigor/crit surge only.

It's also not like stamsorc needs the DPS buff more than magsorc, with stamsorc parsing at over 146k DPS while magsorc parsing just below 135k DPS (this data is from skinny cheeks latest video comparing CMX + videos of class parses for this patch).
Both sorcs were pet sorcs with prey + atro + 2 pets, so it was purely a mag v stam comparison and stam is way ahead of mag for DPS, it's not even close.

Rune Prison is an option, but the skill itself would need a complete rework. In its current state it's just not worth slotting, it would have to be turned into a DoT/buff/debuff (rune cage) or HoT/buff/utility (defensive rune)

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I can’t really think of another skill in the Sorc tool kit tbh. Could maybe put it on Rune Prison, but where else would you put it?

Passive double bar major crit buff should be attached to... let's see.

Crystal Shards morphs make sense because there's a number of GCDs where they're unusable.

Lightning Form morphs give a reason to run the armor skill and other monster sets over Chudan and Inner Light.

Surge itself could work, could even convert one morph to a normal HoT with a small heal bonus on crits.

I think if they put it on shards they would have to rework shards/morphs to be less clunky/awkward to use, be that dropping the RNG aspect of the proc or the cast time of the hard cast and doing something else for crystal weapon entirely. (Not that I wouldn't mind this as it would be nice to have an actual reliable spammable in the class kit that's not just another delayed burst ability disguised as a spammable).
I also don't see them doing this for crystal shards with scribing around the corner and the DW, 2h or even mages guild scribing abilities could fill that role with the ability to choose secondary effects and damage types on those abilities.

Of these 3 options I like Lightning form the most, it gives a reason to actually run that ability over chudan (a base game monster set) after all the massive, indirect, mechanical nerfs that ability got over the past 2+ years (tick rate of DoTs, changed from direct damage to DoT (i.e. no longer breaks stealth) and the increase to melee attack range). So many people seemed to think it would make the ability too strong though which I really don't understand how since it has gotten so many indirect nerfs that it's barely a viable option anymore to the point that a base game monster set is just objectively better than this ability...

Surge is an interesting option, but I would rather just have 1 morph (power surge) be a reliable HoT with major sorcery/brutality instead of it's current "heal proc" and have crit surge as its current "lifesteal" HoT for those who enjoy that and put major prophecy/savagery somewhere else in the kit.

I think Defensive Rune is such a cool and strong skill in 1v1, but falls short in outnumbered PvP or any PvP involving more than 1 target. ZOS could rework it to stun up to 6 targets and add Major Savagery while slotted.

But other skill options are fine too. Dark Deal could provide Major Savagery instead of Minor Force and I’d be fine tbh.

xylena_lazarow

Following up, finally got around to building and playing some magsorc myself, yes Ward is broken, no other class gets nearly as much power out of a single button, the most optimistic I can be is that it was an attempt by the devs to deal with the bar space and learning curve issues. I think the player disconnect comes from how easy it is to die being focused if you miss a single Ward cast, and how magsorc offense takes practice to get the constant attack weaving and precise combos.

Here's what open world Chudan/Alfiq magsorc bars may look like. Notice there's 2 passives you never need to press, only 1 major buff, and only 1 active heal. You've got the most mag, biggest shield, little aoe but high single target damage.


Let's say they did what we suggested ITT. Remove the Ward heal, add Major Breach to Curse and Major Proph/Sav to Lightning Form. Now there's 2 free slots you can put things you actually press that do stuff, like healing or aoe.


You still have the option to use the original build at higher risk healing with Dark Exchange and Surge, but your bars aren't locked. This example uses Vigor to heal underneath Ward (which is even more total healing even with the Ward heal removed), and it uses Encase to either burst heal or add another delayed damage source for combos. This results in a Sorc that presses more buttons but doesn't lose power, just less generic and more flexible.

Turtle_Bot

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Following up, finally got around to building and playing some magsorc myself, yes Ward is broken, no other class gets nearly as much power out of a single button, the most optimistic I can be is that it was an attempt by the devs to deal with the bar space and learning curve issues. I think the player disconnect comes from how easy it is to die being focused if you miss a single Ward cast, and how magsorc offense takes practice to get the constant attack weaving and precise combos.

Here's what open world Chudan/Alfiq magsorc bars may look like. Notice there's 2 passives you never need to press, only 1 major buff, and only 1 active heal. You've got the most mag, biggest shield, little aoe but high single target damage.


Let's say they did what we suggested ITT. Remove the Ward heal, add Major Breach to Curse and Major Proph/Sav to Lightning Form. Now there's 2 free slots you can put things you actually press that do stuff, like healing or aoe.


You still have the option to use the original build at higher risk healing with Dark Exchange and Surge, but your bars aren't locked. This example uses Vigor to heal underneath Ward (which is even more total healing even with the Ward heal removed), and it uses Encase to either burst heal or add another delayed damage source for combos. This results in a Sorc that presses more buttons but doesn't lose power, just less generic and more flexible.

That second build looks a lot like the melee magsorc build I was running in U33:
- No ward, this was curse on front bar instead
- Crushing shock was arterial burst (allowing me to run DW front bar)
- Encase replaced by blessings of restoration (or combat prayer, I can't remember which)
- Curse (now on front bar) replaced with radiating regen
- Negate replaced with resto ulti

Looked something like the following:


That build was some of the most fun I ever had on my magsorc and it was a good stat (damage) build that could keep up with the other classes at the time, but it was definitely not broken by any measure. Unfortunately the nerf to resto in U34 made it unable to keep up defensively with the other classes/oakensoul.

StaticWave

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Following up, finally got around to building and playing some magsorc myself, yes Ward is broken, no other class gets nearly as much power out of a single button, the most optimistic I can be is that it was an attempt by the devs to deal with the bar space and learning curve issues. I think the player disconnect comes from how easy it is to die being focused if you miss a single Ward cast, and how magsorc offense takes practice to get the constant attack weaving and precise combos.

Here's what open world Chudan/Alfiq magsorc bars may look like. Notice there's 2 passives you never need to press, only 1 major buff, and only 1 active heal. You've got the most mag, biggest shield, little aoe but high single target damage.


Let's say they did what we suggested ITT. Remove the Ward heal, add Major Breach to Curse and Major Proph/Sav to Lightning Form. Now there's 2 free slots you can put things you actually press that do stuff, like healing or aoe.


You still have the option to use the original build at higher risk healing with Dark Exchange and Surge, but your bars aren't locked. This example uses Vigor to heal underneath Ward (which is even more total healing even with the Ward heal removed), and it uses Encase to either burst heal or add another delayed damage source for combos. This results in a Sorc that presses more buttons but doesn't lose power, just less generic and more flexible.

Same defensive strength, but more GCDs required to reach it. This is better imo, and more balanced.

Zabagad

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Following up, finally got around to building and playing some magsorc myself, yes Ward is broken, no other class gets nearly as much power out of a single button, the most optimistic I can be is that it was an attempt by the devs to deal with the bar space and learning curve issues. I think the player disconnect comes from how easy it is to die being focused if you miss a single Ward cast, and how magsorc offense takes practice to get the constant attack weaving and precise combos.

Here's what open world Chudan/Alfiq magsorc bars may look like. Notice there's 2 passives you never need to press, only 1 major buff, and only 1 active heal. You've got the most mag, biggest shield, little aoe but high single target damage.


Let's say they did what we suggested ITT. Remove the Ward heal, add Major Breach to Curse and Major Proph/Sav to Lightning Form. Now there's 2 free slots you can put things you actually press that do stuff, like healing or aoe.


You still have the option to use the original build at higher risk healing with Dark Exchange and Surge, but your bars aren't locked. This example uses Vigor to heal underneath Ward (which is even more total healing even with the Ward heal removed), and it uses Encase to either burst heal or add another delayed damage source for combos. This results in a Sorc that presses more buttons but doesn't lose power, just less generic and more flexible.

I guess this was the first post from you where I pressed "agree"

I like it very much - If they realy do both at the same time: "Remove the Ward heal, add Major Breach to Curse and Major Proph/Sav to Lightning Form." (If they only do one of them its meh...)
That would be fantastic - even if I still struggle with "This results in a Sorc that presses more buttons ", because right now I press maybe 3 times ward where I pressed before 1 ward 2 vigor 3 healward or whatever.

But anyway - ZOS should go for it - exactly like your suggestion!!!

Btw: It's much to early and numbers will shift for sure (I guess +-10% of each value possible - so that means templar, DK and warden can switch their positions for example) these are my first numbers of U41 population:

So NB seems to be still much ahead, but I guess that the tarnished set has an effect too.

TechMaybeHic

Zabagad wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Following up, finally got around to building and playing some magsorc myself, yes Ward is broken, no other class gets nearly as much power out of a single button, the most optimistic I can be is that it was an attempt by the devs to deal with the bar space and learning curve issues. I think the player disconnect comes from how easy it is to die being focused if you miss a single Ward cast, and how magsorc offense takes practice to get the constant attack weaving and precise combos.

Here's what open world Chudan/Alfiq magsorc bars may look like. Notice there's 2 passives you never need to press, only 1 major buff, and only 1 active heal. You've got the most mag, biggest shield, little aoe but high single target damage.


Let's say they did what we suggested ITT. Remove the Ward heal, add Major Breach to Curse and Major Proph/Sav to Lightning Form. Now there's 2 free slots you can put things you actually press that do stuff, like healing or aoe.


You still have the option to use the original build at higher risk healing with Dark Exchange and Surge, but your bars aren't locked. This example uses Vigor to heal underneath Ward (which is even more total healing even with the Ward heal removed), and it uses Encase to either burst heal or add another delayed damage source for combos. This results in a Sorc that presses more buttons but doesn't lose power, just less generic and more flexible.

I guess this was the first post from you where I pressed "agree"

I like it very much - If they realy do both at the same time: "Remove the Ward heal, add Major Breach to Curse and Major Proph/Sav to Lightning Form." (If they only do one of them its meh...)
That would be fantastic - even if I still struggle with "This results in a Sorc that presses more buttons ", because right now I press maybe 3 times ward where I pressed before 1 ward 2 vigor 3 healward or whatever.

But anyway - ZOS should go for it - exacltly like your suggestion!!!

Btw: It's much to early and numbers will shift for sure (I guess +-10% of each value possible - so that means templar, DK and warden can switch their positions for example) this are my first numbers of U41 population:

So NB seems to be still much ahead, but I guess that the tarnished set has an effect too.

How do you get your numbers? It looks about what I'd guess the power rankings would be, yet it surprises me as usually I see higher amount of templars than their ranking might be because it's still the low thought healer class. I would have thought Arcanist would have reached a higher number initially but it kind om makes sense

xylena_lazarow

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

It looks about what I'd guess the power rankings would be, yet it surprises me as usually I see higher amount of templars than their ranking might be because it's still the low thought healer class. I would have thought Arcanist would have reached a higher number initially but it kind om makes sense

IIRC the numbers are from that player's Kill Counter addon, used to approximate usage rates of each class, would be good to know which PvP mode(s) and server they come from (maybe this is buried in an earlier post).

Templar is the popular traditional cleric/paladin RPG archetype and has decade of history. Meanwhile Arc is still very new, the Lovecraft theme is more niche, and of course there's still the paywall. This is a very good example of why usage rates aren't the same thing as viability or power ranking.

Zabagad

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

IIRC the numbers are from that player's Kill Counter addon

No they are not from total unreliable killcounter.

I use top100 as my data base.
There is one better method, which should produce (minimal?) better results, but for this I would need minimum 3 other ppl to do that every month. Top100 I can do on my own - as I do now for over 1,5 years.
Even if it's not the perfect method - it is good enough and if you just look on the hole timeline you can take the numbers as a very good estimation. Sure there could be 1-2% under/overestimation on some classes (underestimation of NB) but in the bigger picture it doesn't matter. If there is/was an under/overest. it should be the same since U35 (and even before, but there I used killcounter )

But I don't want to discuss this here in deeper details as it is OT and I'm a bit tired of discussing it in non native language
So let's get back to business and stick with the ward please...

StaticWave

Zabagad wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

IIRC the numbers are from that player's Kill Counter addon

No they are not from total unreliable killcounter.

I use top100 as my data base.
There is one better method, which should produce (minimal?) better results, but for this I would need minimum 3 other ppl to do that every month. Top100 I can do on my own - as I do now for over 1,5 years.
Even if it's not the perfect method - it is good enough and if you just look on the hole timeline you can take the numbers as a very good estimation. Sure there could be 1-2% under/overestimation on some classes (underestimation of NB) but in the bigger picture it doesn't matter. If there is/was an under/overest. it should be the same since U35 (and even before, but there I used killcounter )

But I don't want to discuss this here in deeper details as it is OT and I'm a bit tired of discussing it in non native language
So let's get back to business and stick with the ward please...

@Jsmalls mentioned me and @xylena_lazarow in another thread about capping Ward size to 35k mag or HP.

I think this is a fair suggestion. If we’re going to Ward heal, we’re gonna need to limit its max size potential. My current Sorc sits at 36k HP fully buffed. I have 41% crit chance and Major Vitality (Malubeth), 2 HoTs (Vigor and Surge), and offensive HoT (Cwep weave). When Major Vitality is active, my Ward size is around 10k flat, and my maximum healing ticks are 3.4k Vigor, 3.6k Surge, and 3.8k Blood Magic. My Ward heal is around 5.8k max.

I’m fairly tanky in this build, but the difference is I have to expend more GCDs, which IMO is balanced.

xylena_lazarow

StaticWave wrote: »

I’m fairly tanky in this build, but the difference is I have to expend more GCDs, which IMO is balanced.

You're also giving up something like Maarselok or Roksa to run a tank monster set, which is a good thing and a good example of what balanced defensive building should look like. Stacking 60k max mag should be an unviable meme, not BIS.

Jsmalls

@StaticWave

I think you misunderstood my suggestion.

It was more along the lines of a balance point to go along with the thread idea. I was saying the Ward should be hard capped to the point where "Current health" + "Ward Size" = Max 35k effective HP.

This was strictly to make sure Sorcs (and damage shield users in general) can't circumvent a Max HP cap by stacking a 13k Ward on top of their 35k health giving them 48k effective health.

This would hurt the proactive side (let's say you run 28k health and are full health, this would only give you a 7k ward on cast). But still allow the ability to work reactively like traditional heals (at 15k health you'd still get your ~13k Ward size).

From your suggestion, I don't think a 10k Ward is balanced (with Major Vitality proc'd). Like at all. Compare this to other heals and it's a joke (this ability offers no other buffs/debuffs, no access to class passive bonuses, no additional effect whatsoever other than creating temporary health and a heal, yes the ability is currently Overtuned from a base value standpoint). And once again block casting isn't effective.... Major Vitality is also an extremely niche buff coming from VERY few sources, you can't pigeonhole a class into a monster set again (deja vu of Pirate Skeleton to make Ward viable). Unless scribing changes that next update.

Your suggestion would really only benefit you because it's the way you play. That's called Bias. And eliminates variability in the class. Don't think that's what we want.

That being said we're now a month into this patch. And I think it can be comfortably said that Ward is too strong right now. It's raising the skill floor significantly. Every other person dueling in Stormhaven is a Sorc (red flag). Open world isn't AS bad, but it's still an issue.

But so are Nightblades and Wardens.

xylena_lazarow

Zabagad wrote: »

I use top100 as my data base.

Thanks, appreciate the work. The initial increase on Sorcs alongside a decline in DKs and Temps is something to keep an eye on, but must be taken with a grain of salt as the Cyro Top 100 consists of wildly varying skill levels.

Jsmalls wrote: »

And once again block casting isn't effective

Stop saying this, you can absolutely block cast shields to powerful effect, particularly when incoming damage exceeds your shield size and you need extra mitigation in that 1 second between shield casts, the shield will eat all the unblockable damage like dot stacks or (more importantly) an enemy Sorc's Curse burst.

Jsmalls

@xylena_lazarow

Stop ignoring core functions of the game. Blocking casting heals (and dodge rolling) is the most effective 1vX defensive system in the game. And 75% of the Wards "health value" is unaffected by this mechanic.

It doesn't matter what you feel, it's statistics. Speaking on unblockable damage isn't a benefit for Ward, it effects Wards and Health equally.

xylena_lazarow

Jsmalls wrote: »

Blocking casting heals (and dodge rolling) is the most effective 1vX defensive system in the game

LoS

Galeriano2

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Blocking casting heals (and dodge rolling) is the most effective 1vX defensive system in the game

LoS

Can You win 1vX with just LoS alone without blocking, casting heals and dodge rolling?

StaticWave

Jsmalls wrote: »

@xylena_lazarow

Stop ignoring core functions of the game. Blocking casting heals (and dodge rolling) is the most effective 1vX defensive system in the game. And 75% of the Wards "health value" is unaffected by this mechanic.

It doesn't matter what you feel, it's statistics. Speaking on unblockable damage isn't a benefit for Ward, it effects Wards and Health equally.

Lol no it isn’t 🤣🤣 Speed and elusiveness is the most effective form of defense, and that is coming from a stamsorc that hasnt gotten a burst heal or shield for 5 years. You can block heal all day but if you don’t have the movement speed to get away you’re just gonna get overwhelmed. I’ve kited 12 people and outlived all my teammates who had better healing. I even have videos to prove it too 🤣

You definitely don’t need a burst heal on Sorc for Cyrodiil stuff. I would agree if it’s for 1v1s but def not Cyro.

StaticWave

Jsmalls wrote: »

@StaticWave

I think you misunderstood my suggestion.

It was more along the lines of a balance point to go along with the thread idea. I was saying the Ward should be hard capped to the point where "Current health" + "Ward Size" = Max 35k effective HP.

This was strictly to make sure Sorcs (and damage shield users in general) can't circumvent a Max HP cap by stacking a 13k Ward on top of their 35k health giving them 48k effective health.

This would hurt the proactive side (let's say you run 28k health and are full health, this would only give you a 7k ward on cast). But still allow the ability to work reactively like traditional heals (at 15k health you'd still get your ~13k Ward size).

From your suggestion, I don't think a 10k Ward is balanced (with Major Vitality proc'd). Like at all. Compare this to other heals and it's a joke (this ability offers no other buffs/debuffs, no access to class passive bonuses, no additional effect whatsoever other than creating temporary health and a heal, yes the ability is currently Overtuned from a base value standpoint). And once again block casting isn't effective.... Major Vitality is also an extremely niche buff coming from VERY few sources, you can't pigeonhole a class into a monster set again (deja vu of Pirate Skeleton to make Ward viable). Unless scribing changes that next update.

Your suggestion would really only benefit you because it's the way you play. That's called Bias. And eliminates variability in the class. Don't think that's what we want.

That being said we're now a month into this patch. And I think it can be comfortably said that Ward is too strong right now. It's raising the skill floor significantly. Every other person dueling in Stormhaven is a Sorc (red flag). Open world isn't AS bad, but it's still an issue.

But so are Nightblades and Wardens.

Vigor + Surge + Cwep is plenty healing tho. It’s why I can tank 6-7k DPS with just a 10k ward 🤣

StaticWave

And in case you don’t believe me, here is a link to one of my past 1vX videos, all before hybridization:

https://youtu.be/U4Y20IXevYo?si=1Gsb3fJmAeTdWjGI


All of them without a burst heal or a shield. See how I’m still super hard to kill? That’s what kiting with good movement speed and use of Streak allows you to do. Of course my opponents weren’t exactly good, but that’s basically what 1vXing is lol. Regardless, you don’t need a burst heal for openworld, and you definitely don’t need it underneath a shield.

xylena_lazarow

StaticWave wrote: »

Regardless, you don’t need a burst heal for openworld, and you definitely don’t need it underneath a shield.

It's like they don't even want to play Sorc... they don't bother learning Streak or LoS, they think preloaded mitigation isn't that good because it expires... what, they want to face tank heal spam with 1 button on Blue DK? Aren't they adding spell dyes in u42? Maybe then everyone can have their favorite color and we can go back to having actual classes again.

Or just nuke the class system and let anyone pick any skill.

StaticWave

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Regardless, you don’t need a burst heal for openworld, and you definitely don’t need it underneath a shield.

It's like they don't even want to play Sorc... they don't bother learning Streak or LoS, they think preloaded mitigation isn't that good because it expires... what, they want to face tank heal spam with 1 button on Blue DK? Aren't they adding spell dyes in u42? Maybe then everyone can have their favorite color and we can go back to having actual classes again.

Or just nuke the class system and let anyone pick any skill.

BGs, Cyro, it’s all the same. I’ve watched my teammates die trying to tank through 5+ players. Not doable on a damage build. Often, it’s the ones with the most mobility/elusiveness that survives.

If you watch the top stamsorcs play, they usually are really fast and never stay in 1 spot. Yet they’re able to score high kills and can leave the fight at will.

The trade-off is they are squishy and will die if you catch them. That’s balance. Throwing a 10k ward with a burst heal on that same spec and now they are both tanky and super elusive, and that’s not balanced. It’s basically NB but without the invisibility lol.

Which is why I asked earlier in this thread if ppl are willing to lose Streak to keep current Ward, because you can’t have both if you care about balance. I’ve also suggested that movement speed sources should be limited too so other tanky classes can’t just be mobile and tanky.

xylena_lazarow

StaticWave wrote: »

Which is why I asked earlier in this thread if ppl are willing to lose Streak to keep current Ward, because you can’t have both if you care about balance

But it says Play How You Want, and I want to do everything and have no weaknesses.

/s

Alchimiste1

Jsmalls wrote: »

@xylena_lazarow

Stop ignoring core functions of the game. Blocking casting heals (and dodge rolling) is the most effective 1vX defensive system in the game. And 75% of the Wards "health value" is unaffected by this mechanic.

It doesn't matter what you feel, it's statistics. Speaking on unblockable damage isn't a benefit for Ward, it effects Wards and Health equally.

Tbh dodge rolling by itself is not that good right now. Too much damage you take right now is unmitigatable. It's the reason why left hander's aegis is so good. And tbh you should be block casting at times on sorc even if you have a shield if only to avoid a stun. And actually you should be rolling on msorc too lol

xMauiWaui

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Yes, we agree with you that Hardened ward when max mag stacked to the extreme is an issue, but so are all the other burst heals (and healing in general) in this game when their scaling stats are stacked out the whazoo, hence why we are in the current tank meta that we are in and that tank meta isn't going away anytime soon.

I feel exactly this. But need to say i dont understand why we talk every Year we are "now" in the current "Tank" Meta. There is since like Years a Tank Meta. And as long theres no HP Cap, Crossheal and espect Heal Stack (the thing i never gonna understand why this is since years in the Game), it will never change. Just my opinion.

StaticWave

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@xylena_lazarow

Stop ignoring core functions of the game. Blocking casting heals (and dodge rolling) is the most effective 1vX defensive system in the game. And 75% of the Wards "health value" is unaffected by this mechanic.

It doesn't matter what you feel, it's statistics. Speaking on unblockable damage isn't a benefit for Ward, it effects Wards and Health equally.

Tbh dodge rolling by itself is not that good right now. Too much damage you take right now is unmitigatable. It's the reason why left hander's aegis is so good. And tbh you should be block casting at times on sorc even if you have a shield if only to avoid a stun. And actually you should be rolling on msorc too lol

Right. Even brawler NBs benefited from left hander shield 🤣

RomanRex

20 pages of two people agreeing with each other repeatedly.

Not everyone plays like you or would even want to. No one is going to do a 60k mag build and then get ganked repeatedly for having such low HP.

Some folks want to use other skills/builds and not depend on streak or LoS to be viable. This makes that possible.

Finally, your niche build/situations aren’t practical. I haven’t seen any new OP sorcs since this update went live. Y’all are arguing about something in a vacuum.

StaticWave

RomanRex wrote: »

20 pages of two people agreeing with each other repeatedly.

Not everyone plays like you or would even want to. No one is going to do a 60k mag build and then get ganked repeatedly for having such low HP.

Some folks want to use other skills/builds and not depend on streak or LoS to be viable. This makes that possible.

Finally, your niche build/situations aren’t practical. I haven’t seen any new OP sorcs since this update went live. Y’all are arguing about something in a vacuum.

Fight better people then

TechMaybeHic

You get In large fights, and it's hard to notice; although I did witness 10 players streaking away from their faction stack getting wiped the other day.

But if you do fight a sorc (or NB for that matter) and you notice. Even if you start getting the better of them, which means they're pretty bad, they disengage and reset the fight to start over. Even if you run them down; they have enough time to recover while you'll spend more sprinting. Gap closers are inefficient damage to cost, and it's pretty easy to Streak to LOS so a gap closer cannot target for that so called counter.