U41 font?

Myrillya

Elvenheart wrote: »

I’ve been unable to find the words to describe it, but this is my issue exactly, it’s the back shadowing of the letters not being as dark that make a big difference for me, and also the letters seemed a bit more compressed together. When I get home, I’m trying the fix for the chat box suggested that will make things bigger, but while that may help the compressed letter issue, I’m not sure if it will help the shadow problem.

Yes, I completely understand this! I also just know what my issue was with the text because I've spent some time with photoshop in the past.

code65536

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, we are still looking into this. If you have the ability to change resolutions on your monitor, could we get a few people to try scaling up to 1440 or 4k? Just to see if fonts look off for multiple resolutions, or if it seems like a 1080p specific issue.

@ZOS_Kevin This isn't strictly a resolution issue, but rather an issue with small font sizes. A person could have a 4K monitor, but if their UI scaling is set low (so that they can fit 4x more things into the UI), then the font sizes will be the same small size as a 1080p user with default scaling, and their text will look bad.

Conversely, a 1080p user could set a high UI scale, and their text will look better.

Or, if someone just changes their font to something larger, things will look better too. And why you don't really notice it with things like titles and headings, but you do with chat text.

I think, again, that the problem is with the different (or even altogether missing?) use of font hinting in the Slug renderer (I've dug up the documentation for Slug, and could not find any mention of hinting in the docs, which is worrisome).

Hinting is a way of distorting the appearance of a font to make it better conform to a pixel grid, to improve clarify and legibility of a font, and it's something that really only matters for small-sized fonts, since it's only at those small sizes that conformity to the pixel grid actually has a noticeable impact. This is why people with larger text (e.g., a 1440p user with UI scaling to match) don't notice the issue nearly as much. (In fact, hinting is typically only used at small sizes and is disabled at large font sizes.)

If Slug doesn't support hinting (I could be wrong there; all I did was Google their documentation and Ctrl-F "hint"), then the only real solution is to use the old renderer for UI stuff in the 2D space and relegate Slug to 3D space rendering, which is probably what it was optimized for in the first place.

Logos

The squint is real. Thankfully it's mostly from my addons which were made with the other font style in mind, so hopefully they can do something about it (for those that still have devs working on them, for the rest... Going back to standard UI doesn't really help here XD ).

tincanman

Same issues as described by others.

My dad is in his 80's - he can't read this thin, almost contrast/shadow-less and blurry text. I'm considerably younger and have decent vision yet am also struggling with this, particularly in chat(no add-ons).

I can't help but wonder why something like this that wasn't broken and did not need attention was 'fixed'. And equally, why it wasn't tested before deployment and these issues identified. You(zos) have the metrics for our displays/settings and it beggars belief that any testing using these parameters and even a few edge cases thrown in would have failed to note these issues.

This deploy now fix later (or ban now, unban later...) seems a very poor strategy overall from this customer's perspective - I mean we pay to play the game not provide testing or, in the case of one notable contributor to this thread, explanations of how the tech works and should have been used ....

In fairness, update41 known issues is definitely an improvement in communication, so thanks for that.

Myrillya

agen.fi wrote: »

Survey maps have changed font too

Wanted to mention that now, too. I think this is one of the best screenshots to compare it. It's so much more thinner.

code65536

tincanman wrote: »

why it wasn't tested before deployment and these issues identified.

To be fair, the new font rendering was there on PTS week 1. I don't recall players complaining about it on PTS, though, even though what you saw on PTS 1 was exactly the same was what you see now on Live.

I know the reason I didn't raise any issue on PTS was because I have a 1440p screen with high UI scaling, so while things looked noticeably different, it wasn't bad and I honestly didn't think much about it.

But surely there were 1080p players who were on PTS, and they didn't say much either.

Tandor

code65536 wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

why it wasn't tested before deployment and these issues identified.

To be fair, the new font rendering was there on PTS week 1. I don't recall players complaining about it on PTS, though, even though what you saw on PTS 1 was exactly the same was what you see now on Live.

I know the reason I didn't raise any issue on PTS was because I have a 1440p screen with high UI scaling, so while things looked noticeably different, it wasn't bad and I honestly didn't think much about it.

But surely there were 1080p players who were on PTS, and they didn't say much either.

I wasn't on the PTS, I've given up providing feedback there as it serves no purpose. However, although both my desktops have 1920x1080 resolutions, I haven't noticed any difference in the font with this Update. I don't use any add-ons. Maybe I'm just lucky with my settings. The character screen is another matter altogether, the colouring is horrendously over the top, although again I haven't noticed any difference in the game yet, although that issue could be zone-specific.

Xandreia_

the new font is awful, even changing the font via add ons they are still choppy and hard to read, i have perfect vision, dont wear glasses or have a low quality monitor and the font is just terrible to read, pleaseeeeeeeeeee bring the old font back @ZOS_Kevin

ssewallb14_ESO

code65536 wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

why it wasn't tested before deployment and these issues identified.

To be fair, the new font rendering was there on PTS week 1. I don't recall players complaining about it on PTS, though, even though what you saw on PTS 1 was exactly the same was what you see now on Live.

I know the reason I didn't raise any issue on PTS was because I have a 1440p screen with high UI scaling, so while things looked noticeably different, it wasn't bad and I honestly didn't think much about it.

But surely there were 1080p players who were on PTS, and they didn't say much either.

It's really common for me for fonts to get messed up on PTS due to not yet updated addons or settings mismatch, I assumed that was the case here.

Kavreiss

i vote for employing open dyslexic font for all fonts in game. some people need this help you know. give people th option for those who are impaired visually it is a necessity.

evymyu233

Chinese font is also difficult to read @ZOS_Kevin

evymyu233

I don't know why zos updated the font, the original font was very good

evymyu233

It looks too uncomfortable

Faint_One

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Also one more item as a workaround for now.
Increase your Chat Window Font Size (Settings>Social>Chat Settings>Text Size) or Interface Scale (Settings>Video>Interface>Use Custom Scale)

Any feedback about different width of chinese characters under default font？It seems like a reproduce old issue.
And with some addons using custom font like pchat or CJKchat，chat window will not show any Chinese characters while update from .ttf to .slug，u can see a long blank following “CJKchat”

Faint_One

Faint_One wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Also one more item as a workaround for now.
Increase your Chat Window Font Size (Settings>Social>Chat Settings>Text Size) or Interface Scale (Settings>Video>Interface>Use Custom Scale)

Any feedback about different width of chinese characters under default font？It seems like a reproduce old issue.
And with some addons using custom font like pchat or CJKchat，chat window will not show any Chinese characters while update from .ttf to .slug，u can see a long blank following “CJKchat”

and the characters width are like below

virtus753

code65536 wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

why it wasn't tested before deployment and these issues identified.

To be fair, the new font rendering was there on PTS week 1. I don't recall players complaining about it on PTS, though, even though what you saw on PTS 1 was exactly the same was what you see now on Live.

I know the reason I didn't raise any issue on PTS was because I have a 1440p screen with high UI scaling, so while things looked noticeably different, it wasn't bad and I honestly didn't think much about it.

But surely there were 1080p players who were on PTS, and they didn't say much either.

I submitted several reports in game on PTS about this, since Gina has said multiple times that the devs prefer that method of feedback. Every time I went on the PTS I submitted a ticket, and I spent much less time on PTS than usual in part because of this issue. I also made a comment in one of the forum threads, and I remember reading a response from another player who said that there was something bugged about the new rendering that would be fixed before live. From what I can tell, though, it hasn’t changed.

Kevin’s reply seemed to me to say that for an issue like this they consider the low volume of feedback on the PTS too little for them to consider any action from that alone. They were only going to look into it further if there was sufficient pushback once it hit live. I’m hopeful they see that it is an issue to be addressed now that it’s more than just a few people saying something on the PTS.

Araneae6537

I don’t care for the new book font and small text, as in character nameplates and of course chat are just a bit off / harder to read.

Tandor

evymyu233 wrote: »

I don't know why zos updated the font, the original font was very good

It's looking like the various unwanted changes that ZOS have been introducing over the last year or two and which people have complained about are mainly intended to streamline performance in a way that will enable additional content to be provided. Unfortunately, for many players, the changes just seem to lower the quality of the game in one way or another.

fizzylu

virtus753 wrote: »

Kevin’s reply seemed to me to say that for an issue like this they consider the low volume of feedback on the PTS too little for them to consider any action from that alone. They were only going to look into it further if there was sufficient pushback once it hit live. I’m hopeful they see that it is an issue to be addressed now that it’s more than just a few people saying something on the PTS.

On this thread and another.... so many people are trying to excuse Zenimax by using the small amount of players that participate on the PTS, but I feel like even if just a handful are drawing attention to something that they see an issue with, it should be obvious that handful is going to become much more once the feature/change goes live.... and honestly, I'm just baffled that somehow Zenimax themselves could not see that the new rendering is worse and a drop in quality instead of an improvement.

Ulvich

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, we are still looking into this. If you have the ability to change resolutions on your monitor, could we get a few people to try scaling up to 1440 or 4k? Just to see if fonts look off for multiple resolutions, or if it seems like a 1080p specific issue.

I tried putting my resolution at different settings and it just looked horrible. The best setting for me is right where I have it, however the changes that were made are making it really hard to see and burns my eyes after a while.
I suggest you guys just bite the bullet on this one and revert it back to the way it was. There has to be a better way to get what you want without altering the text to this extent. Or perhaps, as some have suggested, give us a setting to opt in or out of the changes. Or maybe even an option to change ALL text.
As it stands right now I already have have to wear glasses, and this is making things very bad on my eyes.
Most of the computers people are using just won't accept the changes that were made, and neither will their eyes.

agelonestar

evymyu233 wrote: »

Chinese font is also difficult to read @ZOS_Kevin

I found that totally impossible to read.

Now, to be fair, I don't speak Chinese at all, which is probably the root of the problem here

Meredy

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Screenshots would definitely help, if you are able to post them. In the meantime, what resolution are you playing in?

I came across this in the Gold Coast yesterday, where zone chat was nearly unreadable because of the new rendering:



The outline of the text should be thicker so that it's visible on bright surfaces. I use /say chat a lot too and I noticed it was very hard to read on surfaces that were lit by a light source and fire. I can only imagine how weird it's gonna be in daytime Summerset.

Edit: Playing on 2560x1440. I increased the text size from 18 to 19 after these changes. 18 was no longer readable for me.

ZOS_Kevin

Thanks for the updates here, everyone. We are sharing these with the dev team as we look to resolve this.

colossalvoids

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for the updates here, everyone. We are sharing these with the dev team as we look to resolve this.

Thank you Kevin!

Ephemerae

Some screenshots from my end.
The quest tab seems to blend into the background with a similar issue with the chat.
The locations, NPCs etc. can be somewhat read, but they strain my eyes quite a bit (As I probably said before, but my memory's as awful as Rigurt's sweetbread). As someone said, might have to do with the spacing and drop shadows.

Irhak

Forgot to make screenshot of this but... font in that antiquarian notes after digging the lead - it's way too thin now... it looks just plain wierd

fizzylu

Irhak wrote: »

Forgot to make screenshot of this but... font in that antiquarian notes after digging the lead - it's way too thin now... it looks just plain wierd

I took one last night to show my friend how bad it was, haha.

Scott_Kylian

Hello,

Just piling in to basically say "me too". I'm having the same issue, and I perceive it with a similar severity of "unplayable". Even after mitigation options (increasing font size, installing addons), chat remains less-enjoyable than before, while most text (lore, books, scrolls) is downright impossible to decipher without massive eye strain.

Playing an MMO with a deep lore and good community loses its charm once you can't read either without a swift headache.

There are other changes noticeable here and there, not always for the better, but those impacts are neglectible (to me) compared to these. Possibly because after two attempts at "just play anyway", i ended up quitting the game, unsubbing, and spending a good hour getting a forum account to contribute to reporting in hopes of getting the game I loved back into the state it deserves.

If it helps i'm on 1440p with a scaled down UI (and no eyesight issue, no glasses, etc)

Regards

Pixiepumpkin

Technically its called a typeface. A font is a variation within a typeface.

SatanicSister

I like the new font a lot. To me, it is much easier to read, because it isn't as thick as the old one was, but is slightly higher, so text looks a lot cleaner. So yeah, unlike any other person in this thread, I'm really happy with the change.

I do hope for other people's sake, that they will get an option to use the old font, but please, don't change it back to the way it was.