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We need to talk about Columbine
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AnduinTryggva✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
Agreed, such a vendor wouldn't only remove gold from the game (I don't trade at all personally, but most traders think it's too much gold around.), but also solve the issue of excessive grinding to stock up on consumables for various game modes.
Can't think of any counterargument tbh.
Yes, let's destroy the market for alchemists even more. No thanks.
They can always add more things to do with alchemy rather than holding basic pots hostage.
Tripot is not a basic potion.
I quote the author of the original post of this thread:
This is from May past year.DrNukenstein wrote: »Tristat pots are extremely powerful. They let you dump sustain and push your damage as high as possible without the downside of downtime. To a degree, they are an addictive substance. I am addicted to having the huge damage that I can have because I can reset my pools and boost regen by 30% every 40 seconds.
[shortened]
Basic potions are for me for example those already available from AP vendors, - Battle, Spell and Health Draughts.
Tristat pots are surely powerfull, however the cooldown is still long enough to completely ignore sustain unless you are in a group with optimized sets.
To be honest I don't think that tristat pots should be purchasable as they can be crafted by everybody after a bit of alchemy leveling. Alchemy is pretty dumb to level and for my chars one of the craftign skills that go up fasted even without much grind. It is harder to get all the skill points to sink into that skill line than to push up the level of it.
What is imho much more needed is to increase access to the ingredients. This is where the things go wrong. Already columbine is a pretty rare plant and then it will be picked up by anybody who stumbles upon it.
As I said in previous posts the issue is with scarcity of the basic ingredients combined to low "drop" rates for a "high end" (secondary) ingredient like columbine or dreughwax.
Survey do help but they don't bring prices down apparantly. So if we have a highly sought ingredient with a limitation of access to these ingredients we see prices like we have right now for some ingredients. It is harmful for a game like this as it pushes the threshold higher for players with little gold ressources even further leading to frustration and likely abandoning of certain activities by these same players.
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EF321✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AnduinTryggva wrote: »So if we have a highly sought ingredient with a limitation of access to these ingredients
Who is preventing you from gathering indefinitely respawning nodes?3 -
AnduinTryggva✭✭✭✭✭
✭AnduinTryggva wrote: »So if we have a highly sought ingredient with a limitation of access to these ingredients
Who is preventing you from gathering indefinitely respawning nodes?
How many times do I have to explain this?
Respawn of nodes takes quite a long time. Depends of course of the population. High population reduce respawn times.
And then for columbine: This is random. You cannot wait at an alchemy spawn point and expect columbine to spawn there even if you just harvested columbine right there before.
Your argument is not helpful at all considering the considerable amount one needs of one ressource.Edited by AnduinTryggva on 4 March 2024 10:183 -
Naftal✭✭✭✭✭They should make tristat pots available with AP. This would reduce the cost of columbine by a lot even though it's also used by many other good potions.3 -
XSTRONG✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
They give them out for free for the same reason they give out 1 or 2 crates for free. They want you to get a taste of what it's like, so you'll get out your wallet and buy more.
Free sampling has been a staple of marketing from the beginning.
They aren't making big money selling pots like they are crates.
Can you link your source for this claim?
They give them away for free like candy dude. There's no way they're doing that if it's harming sales.
So, just your opinion, I see.
They are giving away crates on four days this month, but tri pots only once. And a stack of 200 crown tri pots costs 4,000 crowns. If you think they aren't making money on 47 second consumables, well, I don't know what to tell ya.
So for 1 stack 200 tripots you have to pay 4000 crowns?
Selling your 4000 crowns to a player you get 1.6 million gold on ps5eu, with those 1.6 million you can buy nearly 50 stacks of tripots in trader.
Buy flowers for those 1.6 million and craft yourself you will end up with alooot more stacks of tripots.
So if there someone out there buying crown pots for 4000 crowns per stack i will have no word for it...5 -
EF321✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They should make tristat pots available with AP. This would reduce the cost of columbine by a lot even though it's also used by many other good potions.
Why not add many other good potions and not yours? What did you do to deserve privileges and why should other players not receive same treatment?2 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
They give them out for free for the same reason they give out 1 or 2 crates for free. They want you to get a taste of what it's like, so you'll get out your wallet and buy more.
Free sampling has been a staple of marketing from the beginning.
They aren't making big money selling pots like they are crates.
Can you link your source for this claim?
They give them away for free like candy dude. There's no way they're doing that if it's harming sales.
So, just your opinion, I see.
They are giving away crates on four days this month, but tri pots only once. And a stack of 200 crown tri pots costs 4,000 crowns. If you think they aren't making money on 47 second consumables, well, I don't know what to tell ya.
So for 1 stack 200 tripots you have to pay 4000 crowns?
Selling your 4000 crowns to a player you get 1.6 million gold on ps5eu, with those 1.6 million you can buy nearly 50 stacks of tripots in trader.
Buy flowers for those 1.6 million and craft yourself you will end up with alooot more stacks of tripots.
So if there someone out there buying crown pots for 4000 crowns per stack i will have no word for it...
I guess you missed the part about convenience. And missed the part where I spoke about paying crowns for bites.
Sure there's lots of ways to get tri pots that make sense, and involve a little work. But look at all the people in this thread who are saying putting in the work (gathering materials, etc) is too much of a chore/not fun for them? They'd rather go to the store and buy stacks with AP. Just like others would rather go to the crown store and buy stacks with cash. And the convenience folks are not likely to risk getting ripped off by bad actors in a crowns for gold transaction, either. Some probably don't like dealing with people at all, which is why they will buy the bite, rather than asking for one.RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.0 -
XSTRONG✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
They give them out for free for the same reason they give out 1 or 2 crates for free. They want you to get a taste of what it's like, so you'll get out your wallet and buy more.
Free sampling has been a staple of marketing from the beginning.
They aren't making big money selling pots like they are crates.
Can you link your source for this claim?
They give them away for free like candy dude. There's no way they're doing that if it's harming sales.
So, just your opinion, I see.
They are giving away crates on four days this month, but tri pots only once. And a stack of 200 crown tri pots costs 4,000 crowns. If you think they aren't making money on 47 second consumables, well, I don't know what to tell ya.
So for 1 stack 200 tripots you have to pay 4000 crowns?
Selling your 4000 crowns to a player you get 1.6 million gold on ps5eu, with those 1.6 million you can buy nearly 50 stacks of tripots in trader.
Buy flowers for those 1.6 million and craft yourself you will end up with alooot more stacks of tripots.
So if there someone out there buying crown pots for 4000 crowns per stack i will have no word for it...
I guess you missed the part about convenience. And missed the part where I spoke about paying crowns for bites.
Sure there's lots of ways to get tri pots that make sense, and involve a little work. But look at all the people in this thread who are saying putting in the work (gathering materials, etc) is too much of a chore/not fun for them? They'd rather go to the store and buy stacks with AP. Just like others would rather go to the crown store and buy stacks with cash. And the convenience folks are not likely to risk getting ripped off by bad actors in a crowns for gold transaction, either. Some probably don't like dealing with people at all, which is why they will buy the bite, rather than asking for one.
I responded to you saying people buy 47 seconds consumables in crownstore, did Zos share crownstore sales with you or how do you know?1 -
Naftal✭✭✭✭✭They should make tristat pots available with AP. This would reduce the cost of columbine by a lot even though it's also used by many other good potions.
Why not add many other good potions and not yours? What did you do to deserve privileges and why should other players not receive same treatment?
Well tristat is one of the normal potions used.
I don't get the attitude behind your post. I never said they shouldn't add other potions.
EDIT: Nevermind I read some of your other replies. You just want to argue for arguments sake.Edited by Naftal on 4 March 2024 20:105 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
They give them out for free for the same reason they give out 1 or 2 crates for free. They want you to get a taste of what it's like, so you'll get out your wallet and buy more.
Free sampling has been a staple of marketing from the beginning.
They aren't making big money selling pots like they are crates.
Can you link your source for this claim?
They give them away for free like candy dude. There's no way they're doing that if it's harming sales.
So, just your opinion, I see.
They are giving away crates on four days this month, but tri pots only once. And a stack of 200 crown tri pots costs 4,000 crowns. If you think they aren't making money on 47 second consumables, well, I don't know what to tell ya.
So for 1 stack 200 tripots you have to pay 4000 crowns?
Selling your 4000 crowns to a player you get 1.6 million gold on ps5eu, with those 1.6 million you can buy nearly 50 stacks of tripots in trader.
Buy flowers for those 1.6 million and craft yourself you will end up with alooot more stacks of tripots.
So if there someone out there buying crown pots for 4000 crowns per stack i will have no word for it...
I guess you missed the part about convenience. And missed the part where I spoke about paying crowns for bites.
Sure there's lots of ways to get tri pots that make sense, and involve a little work. But look at all the people in this thread who are saying putting in the work (gathering materials, etc) is too much of a chore/not fun for them? They'd rather go to the store and buy stacks with AP. Just like others would rather go to the crown store and buy stacks with cash. And the convenience folks are not likely to risk getting ripped off by bad actors in a crowns for gold transaction, either. Some probably don't like dealing with people at all, which is why they will buy the bite, rather than asking for one.
I responded to you saying people buy 47 seconds consumables in crownstore, did Zos share crownstore sales with you or how do you know?
I don't agree that it's a big seller, for reasons I earlier outlined.
But just as it's obvious by ZOS actions that it's not a big seller, it's also obvious by their actions that it does contribute something to their sales. They likely would have pulled it long ago if it didn't generate any thing for them.
We can't know exact numbers because no player has access to their books. But we can plainly see what they are choosing to support as a revenue stream with continuous development, innovation, and advertisements; what they have chosen to just set and forget; and what they have abandoned entirely.
Edited by spartaxoxo on 4 March 2024 20:170 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
They give them out for free for the same reason they give out 1 or 2 crates for free. They want you to get a taste of what it's like, so you'll get out your wallet and buy more.
Free sampling has been a staple of marketing from the beginning.
They aren't making big money selling pots like they are crates.
Can you link your source for this claim?
They give them away for free like candy dude. There's no way they're doing that if it's harming sales.
So, just your opinion, I see.
They are giving away crates on four days this month, but tri pots only once. And a stack of 200 crown tri pots costs 4,000 crowns. If you think they aren't making money on 47 second consumables, well, I don't know what to tell ya.
So for 1 stack 200 tripots you have to pay 4000 crowns?
Selling your 4000 crowns to a player you get 1.6 million gold on ps5eu, with those 1.6 million you can buy nearly 50 stacks of tripots in trader.
Buy flowers for those 1.6 million and craft yourself you will end up with alooot more stacks of tripots.
So if there someone out there buying crown pots for 4000 crowns per stack i will have no word for it...
I guess you missed the part about convenience. And missed the part where I spoke about paying crowns for bites.
Sure there's lots of ways to get tri pots that make sense, and involve a little work. But look at all the people in this thread who are saying putting in the work (gathering materials, etc) is too much of a chore/not fun for them? They'd rather go to the store and buy stacks with AP. Just like others would rather go to the crown store and buy stacks with cash. And the convenience folks are not likely to risk getting ripped off by bad actors in a crowns for gold transaction, either. Some probably don't like dealing with people at all, which is why they will buy the bite, rather than asking for one.
I responded to you saying people buy 47 seconds consumables in crownstore, did Zos share crownstore sales with you or how do you know?
Why would they keep them in the store, if they didn't sell? And why would they give out free samples every month? And while I personally make my own tri pots and have never bought columbine, I do know people who have actually purchased tri pots in the store. And bites, skill lines, skyshards, alliance XP scrolls, and pretty much everything else you can acquire in-game with a little time and effort.RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.2 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Gold rains from the sky here.
Why are people so averse to obtaining it in order to fund activities.
I've got a few million and I don't sell much. I make my own tripots. Would I like there to be an alternative to those that are good? Yes. Would I rather they sell them for AP? No. If there were other options people wouldn't be complaining they "need" them.
No, I don't sell my columbine.2 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They should make tristat pots available with AP. This would reduce the cost of columbine by a lot even though it's also used by many other good potions.
Why not add many other good potions and not yours? What did you do to deserve privileges and why should other players not receive same treatment?
We've repeatedly explained this to you.6 -
subarctic✭✭✭✭“farm it, right?”
I tried farming Columbine. Found almost none. Increase the number of resource nodes and faster respawn times.3 -
Kite42✭✭✭✭✭As far as buying bites is concerned, I suspect only a handful of newbies have every paid, and they will soon have found out what a rip-off it is and won't be back. Once biten, twice shy.
If anyone pays for a *cure*, then I want guardianship over their crowns for everyone's safety.Edited by Kite42 on 5 March 2024 03:353 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have to agree that it's not easy to get columbine. I harvest plants regularly, and columbine is indeed the rarest, probably because everyone picks them up whenever possible. I harvest at off-peak times and still only get a handful for a couple of hours' farming. On weekends I don't even see them.
I do think that they should increase the ways of getting columbine if it's so important to a large number of people... but we've also been saying that about furnishing mats for years, to no avail. If that's not possible, perhaps it might be easier to introduce an alternative ingredient we can make these potions with?1 -
EF321✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »They should make tristat pots available with AP. This would reduce the cost of columbine by a lot even though it's also used by many other good potions.
Why not add many other good potions and not yours? What did you do to deserve privileges and why should other players not receive same treatment?
We've repeatedly explained this to you.
No, no you didn't? I have asked multiple times why you as an individual user of potion A deserve to have significant sourcing advantage over individual user of potion B, and your only answer was "Someone else uses same potion as me, so that's why". In other words, there is nothing special about you to warrant request like this.3 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BretonMage wrote: »I have to agree that it's not easy to get columbine. I harvest plants regularly, and columbine is indeed the rarest, probably because everyone picks them up whenever possible. I harvest at off-peak times and still only get a handful for a couple of hours' farming. On weekends I don't even see them.
I do think that they should increase the ways of getting columbine if it's so important to a large number of people... but we've also been saying that about furnishing mats for years, to no avail. If that's not possible, perhaps it might be easier to introduce an alternative ingredient we can make these potions with?
I'm with you on the housing mats. It's one of the reasons I can relate to the Columbine issue even though I don't personally need it.1 -
Kite42✭✭✭✭✭Maybe there should exist a way to transform reagents. Obviously it should be lossy...maybe input 5 reagents to get 2 that you want. There could be recipes for such transformations.
We could call it...alchemy! 😎2 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
They give them out for free for the same reason they give out 1 or 2 crates for free. They want you to get a taste of what it's like, so you'll get out your wallet and buy more.
Free sampling has been a staple of marketing from the beginning.
They aren't making big money selling pots like they are crates.
Can you link your source for this claim?
They give them away for free like candy dude. There's no way they're doing that if it's harming sales.
So, just your opinion, I see.
They are giving away crates on four days this month, but tri pots only once. And a stack of 200 crown tri pots costs 4,000 crowns. If you think they aren't making money on 47 second consumables, well, I don't know what to tell ya.
Tri pots is an extremely common reward that's given most every month multiple times. It's simple business 101 that you don't make something that's a big seller free so often that a large portion of your playerbase never has to buy them again.
I don't think there's any credible evidence that tripots are a big cash cow for them.
The whole crying on this discussion about the Columbine is NOT for tripot.
Is for the cost to make Poisons, especially Escapist’s Poison IX which is extensively used in PVP and consumed in great numbers.
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StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭manukartofanu wrote: »SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »just pick up more columbine. and do your surveys
I dont want to do dumb and boring things like running around to pick flowers.
I use tristat in PvP and have millions of AP, let me buy it with those.
So what's the problem? Sell your millions of AP through dawn prisms and buy columbine.
Or how about just letting us buy tri-stat potions with AP instead of going through hoops?Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc6 -
Grizzbeorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »The whole crying on this discussion about the Columbine is NOT for tripot.
Is for the cost to make Poisons, especially Escapist’s Poison IX which is extensively used in PVP and consumed in great numbers.
The OP (which you did not write) says it's in reference to tristat pots, and the entire discussion has been centered on tristat pots, up until you mentioned poisons.3 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here are the 7 most common uses for Columbine currently, not limited to just potions, but food too, their uses and cost (PC EU) per item/stack.- Sugar Skulls (2) - high end PvE food (typically on tanks) (~1200 per item = 120k gold per stack (100 items))
- Tri-pots - used everywhere both PvP and PvE (basically mandatory thanks to hybridization) (~800 per item = 160k per stack (200 items))
- Heroism Pots - high end pots in both PvP and PvE (5k per item = 1 million per stack (200 items))
- Detect Pots - mandatory for PvP (or NB will mop the floor with your corpse) (~500 per item = 100k per stack (200 items))
- Unstoppable Pots - mandatory for PvP (or you just become the focus target for ball groups/bombers) (~800 for magic or 750 for stamina per item = 160k or 150k per stack (200 items))
- Escapist poisons - high end PvP (200 per item = 200k per stack (1k items))
- Jewels of Misrule - "Budget" alternative to the BiS PvP food, Orzorga's Smoked Bear Haunch (this is supposed to be BUDGET) (~750 per item = 75k per stack (100 items))
Cost of PvE consumables:
120k + 1 million + 160k = 1.28 million gold for 1 stack of each of these consumables (highly likely to go through up to 2 stacks of potions per trifecta run attempt).
Cost of PvP Consumables (Budget):
160k + 100k + 150k + 75k (with optional 1 mill + 200k for heroism pots/escapist poisons) = 485k (or 1.685 mill if you run heroism pots + escapist poisons). Potions get drank like water in PvP too, so this is a constant use for however long you play.
Cost of PvP consumables (BiS):
Using Bear Haunch (BiS food at 20k per item = 2 million per stack (100 items))
160k + 100k + 150k + 2 million + 1 million + 200k = 3.61 million gold just to have 1 stack of each of the BiS PvP consumables.
3.6 million gold just for 1 stack of each BiS consumables for PvP and that is only PC EU prices, not even NA's absurd pricing which is much higher (75%) than EU's prices.
A minimum spend of 1/2 a million gold just for the consumables to simply participate in (not even be optimal at) an hour or so of content that is more challenging/engaging than picking flowers is nothing short of absurd.
How anyone can try to justify that is beyond comprehension.
Considering just how required the majority of these foods and potions are for doing anything remotely challenging (combat wise) in this game, I think it's high time that Columbine was looked at and something done about it, either some of the recipes altered or an easily accessible, alternative, in-game way to obtain some of the more basic of these consumables was added.
1 option to reduce the baseline cost of consumables while still keeping columbine relatively expensive for those who want to farm and sell it, would be to have tri-stat potions available at a vendor for both gold and AP (this way everyone can use their preferred currency obtained from playing the game the way they want to play it for this basic level consumable).This would leave the following as things that require farming columbine for, but it would allow for the most basic consumable (tri-pots) to be more easily accessible and readily available to everyone:
- Sugar Skulls
- Heroism Pots
- Detect Pots
- Unstoppable Pots
- Escapist poisons
- Jewels of Misrule
Which is exactly what ZOS did with power pots years ago when those were reaching prices that were barely half what Columbine is currently sitting at, so it's not like this can't be done or hasn't been done in the past.
It wouldn't even reduce the price of Columbine that much because of everything else that would still require it, but it raises the floor of accessibility to basic level consumables in ESO, which is a good thing for the overall health of the game.
I ask the following question of those who would say "Well just go farm it then":
How would you feel, if before you were allowed to go pick your flowers, open your trader mail, do your writs or list an item on the guild store, if it was mandatory for you to go and do 2 hours of full fledged, sweaty PvP, or complete a trial trifecta?Maybe this is what ZOS should do instead of increasing access to columbine (or basic consumables such as tri-pots), maybe ZOS should simply force all players to kill (killing blows) a certain number of players (200) in PvP zones or complete a trial trifecta before they can open their mail, do writs, interact with crafting material nodes or interact with guild traders?
Seems fair to me, after all, those who would complain about this change should take their own advice and just complete that content if they want to enjoy the parts of the game that is fun to them.
As for housing items, yes many of those are far too expensive as well, but just because they are expensive, doesn't mean everything (including those items) should remain so. Maybe join the chorus and ask for the prices of those to be dropped as well, instead of bashing those who enjoy combat and are asking for their consumables to come down in price.Edited by Turtle_Bot on 5 March 2024 10:464 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've talked about this in multiple threads I've created.
AP tri-pots need to be a reality.PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden6 -
Ph1p✭✭✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »I ask the following question of those who would say "Well just go farm it then":
How would you feel, if before you were allowed to go pick your flowers, open your trader mail, do your writs or list an item on the guild store, if it was mandatory for you to go and do 2 hours of full fledged, sweaty PvP, or complete a trial trifecta?
I would say that getting raw materials to create consumables required for PVP or PVE is a logical sequence of activities and standard in many video games. Having said that, arguing for those raw materials or even consumables to be more easily available is a valid argument and there are decent proposals here.
But reversing that logical order of activities makes no sense and is an asinine point. How would you feel, if you had to finish a doctorate before attending pre-school? What if you had to cook a Michelin-star 5-course meal before being allowed to buy its ingredients? Not really sensible questions, are they?6 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »I ask the following question of those who would say "Well just go farm it then":
How would you feel, if before you were allowed to go pick your flowers, open your trader mail, do your writs or list an item on the guild store, if it was mandatory for you to go and do 2 hours of full fledged, sweaty PvP, or complete a trial trifecta?
I would say that getting raw materials to create consumables required for PVP or PVE is a logical sequence of activities and standard in many video games. Having said that, arguing for those raw materials or even consumables to be more easily available is a valid argument and there are decent proposals here.
But reversing that logical order of activities makes no sense and is an asinine point. How would you feel, if you had to finish a doctorate before attending pre-school? What if you had to cook a Michelin-star 5-course meal before being allowed to buy its ingredients? Not really sensible questions, are they?
Sometimes you have to point out the absurd to bring attention to just how asinine many peoples arguments that are against what should be a simple and sensible change. Especially when that change has been done in the past for other similar things and the main arguments against that change are nothing but peoples greedy self interests.
That's the whole point of asking such an absurd question, it is to make people actually think about things and understand more than just what their selfish greed is telling them.2 -
XSTRONG✭✭✭✭✭“farm it, right?”
I tried farming Columbine. Found almost none. Increase the number of resource nodes and faster respawn times.
Farming in Eso are mostly for bots but sadly they do not farm flowers or prices would be diffrent i think.
Most flower/potions in traders are from Telwar farmers.
Farm flower overland is useless.1 -
EF321✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »Here are the 7 most common uses for Columbine currently, not limited to just potions, but food too, their uses and cost (PC EU) per item/stack.- Sugar Skulls (2) - high end PvE food (typically on tanks) (~1200 per item = 120k gold per stack (100 items))
- Tri-pots - used everywhere both PvP and PvE (basically mandatory thanks to hybridization) (~800 per item = 160k per stack (200 items))
- Heroism Pots - high end pots in both PvP and PvE (5k per item = 1 million per stack (200 items))
- Detect Pots - mandatory for PvP (or NB will mop the floor with your corpse) (~500 per item = 100k per stack (200 items))
- Unstoppable Pots - mandatory for PvP (or you just become the focus target for ball groups/bombers) (~800 for magic or 750 for stamina per item = 160k or 150k per stack (200 items))
- Escapist poisons - high end PvP (200 per item = 200k per stack (1k items))
- Jewels of Misrule - "Budget" alternative to the BiS PvP food, Orzorga's Smoked Bear Haunch (this is supposed to be BUDGET) (~750 per item = 75k per stack (100 items))
Cost of PvE consumables:
120k + 1 million + 160k = 1.28 million gold for 1 stack of each of these consumables (highly likely to go through up to 2 stacks of potions per trifecta run attempt).
Cost of PvP Consumables (Budget):
160k + 100k + 150k + 75k (with optional 1 mill + 200k for heroism pots/escapist poisons) = 485k (or 1.685 mill if you run heroism pots + escapist poisons). Potions get drank like water in PvP too, so this is a constant use for however long you play.
Cost of PvP consumables (BiS):
Using Bear Haunch (BiS food at 20k per item = 2 million per stack (100 items))
160k + 100k + 150k + 2 million + 1 million + 200k = 3.61 million gold just to have 1 stack of each of the BiS PvP consumables.
3.6 million gold just for 1 stack of each BiS consumables for PvP and that is only PC EU prices, not even NA's absurd pricing which is much higher (75%) than EU's prices.
A minimum spend of 1/2 a million gold just for the consumables to simply participate in (not even be optimal at) an hour or so of content that is more challenging/engaging than picking flowers is nothing short of absurd.
How anyone can try to justify that is beyond comprehension.
Considering just how required the majority of these foods and potions are for doing anything remotely challenging (combat wise) in this game, I think it's high time that Columbine was looked at and something done about it, either some of the recipes altered or an easily accessible, alternative, in-game way to obtain some of the more basic of these consumables was added.
1 option to reduce the baseline cost of consumables while still keeping columbine relatively expensive for those who want to farm and sell it, would be to have tri-stat potions available at a vendor for both gold and AP (this way everyone can use their preferred currency obtained from playing the game the way they want to play it for this basic level consumable).This would leave the following as things that require farming columbine for, but it would allow for the most basic consumable (tri-pots) to be more easily accessible and readily available to everyone:
- Sugar Skulls
- Heroism Pots
- Detect Pots
- Unstoppable Pots
- Escapist poisons
- Jewels of Misrule
Which is exactly what ZOS did with power pots years ago when those were reaching prices that were barely half what Columbine is currently sitting at, so it's not like this can't be done or hasn't been done in the past.
It wouldn't even reduce the price of Columbine that much because of everything else that would still require it, but it raises the floor of accessibility to basic level consumables in ESO, which is a good thing for the overall health of the game.
I ask the following question of those who would say "Well just go farm it then":
How would you feel, if before you were allowed to go pick your flowers, open your trader mail, do your writs or list an item on the guild store, if it was mandatory for you to go and do 2 hours of full fledged, sweaty PvP, or complete a trial trifecta?Maybe this is what ZOS should do instead of increasing access to columbine (or basic consumables such as tri-pots), maybe ZOS should simply force all players to kill (killing blows) a certain number of players (200) in PvP zones or complete a trial trifecta before they can open their mail, do writs, interact with crafting material nodes or interact with guild traders?
Seems fair to me, after all, those who would complain about this change should take their own advice and just complete that content if they want to enjoy the parts of the game that is fun to them.
As for housing items, yes many of those are far too expensive as well, but just because they are expensive, doesn't mean everything (including those items) should remain so. Maybe join the chorus and ask for the prices of those to be dropped as well, instead of bashing those who enjoy combat and are asking for their consumables to come down in price.
You mention writs and guild trading as some activities you can easily do all by yourself with no requirements, when master writs, if you do them all by yourself without buying anything from other players or asking them for their services, master writs are random once-a-day chance that has pre-requisite of fully mastering the craft first, and if you do get one, they require materials and motif knowledge from everywhere in the game, every dlc dungeon, every trial, every zone daily quest and more. Roe, antiquity style materials, hakeijos, dawn prisms, dibelium, slaugtherstones, gilding wax (you need to do master writs before you can do other master writs), dlc style materials - these are all required by writs on daily basis, not one time expenses, you have to do all the content every day. And columbine too, they ask for columbine. You need to complete multiple entire story lines before you can learn certain traits or attempt to farm certain motifs. You'll have to earn countless gladiator coffers in Cyrodiil to learn triune trait by yourself, many dungeons for harmony. You'll have to grind perfected gear from veteran PvE trials and arenas to learn nirhoned trait by yourself. Some DLC dungeon style materials you can't even find listed on entire server sometimes, even if you wanted to buy them, so have no choice but do group PvE before you can do your writ. You'll have to do a lot of different content and spend a lot of time before you can earn crafter's currency (vouchers). Barriers to earning these are huge.
And don't even start with how easy it is to list your items on *your* own guild trader lol, guild traders have highest entry and maintenance barriers in whole game. You are not even allowed to attempt to compete for one before you assemble a guild of 50+ players, guild trader hiring feature is simply locked from you. And then you have to compete with other guilds for actually limited trader NPCs, if you lose your bids, you don't get to trade that week at all. You are completely locked out of trading feature if you lose. This is not one time purchase either, you have to grind for trader every single week and you never know if you get one until it's too late. You know if you have enough potions before queuing for Cyrodiil, you can event postpone your gaming session and get some more, if you want. Trading bids have timer ticking and can not be postponed. Listing items on guild trader NPC isn't exactly something you can go and do whenever you please, as you are trying to picture it, there is a lot of pre-requisites before you can do it.
4 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭“farm it, right?”
I tried farming Columbine. Found almost none. Increase the number of resource nodes and faster respawn times.
Farming in Eso are mostly for bots but sadly they do not farm flowers or prices would be diffrent i think.
Most flower/potions in traders are from Telwar farmers.
Farm flower overland is useless.
This. Farming Columbine in overland zones is inefficient. Farming Telvar is unfortunately the quickest way to obtain many alchemy mats.
However, the catch is you either farm during super late hours (early morning), or you will face intense competition around prime time. One requires staying up late, and the other requires PvPing (which is inefficient and may not give you any Telvar for the entire session). Most Telvar farmers stay up super late to farm, and there aren’t many. That’s one of the reasons why they can control the market.
Now I’m not suggesting ZOS make Telvar more accessible. Telvar should be hard to get. What we need to do is increase the sources of items derived from Columbine, like allowing Tri pots to be purchased with AP. This not only will help the economy by reducing the bottleneck, but also increase quality of life.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
erdYrrson✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »“farm it, right?”
I tried farming Columbine. Found almost none. Increase the number of resource nodes and faster respawn times.
Farming in Eso are mostly for bots but sadly they do not farm flowers or prices would be diffrent i think.
Most flower/potions in traders are from Telwar farmers.
Farm flower overland is useless.
This. Farming Columbine in overland zones is inefficient. Farming Telvar is unfortunately the quickest way to obtain many alchemy mats.
However, the catch is you either farm during super late hours (early morning), or you will face intense competition around prime time. One requires staying up late, and the other requires PvPing (which is inefficient and may not give you any Telvar for the entire session). Most Telvar farmers stay up super late to farm, and there aren’t many. That’s one of the reasons why they can control the market.
Now I’m not suggesting ZOS make Telvar more accessible. Telvar should be hard to get. What we need to do is increase the sources of items derived from Columbine, like allowing Tri pots to be purchased with AP. This not only will help the economy by reducing the bottleneck, but also increase quality of life.
How does the Archival Alchemical Sachet for Archival Fortunes compare to the Waxed Apothecary's Satchel for Tel Var?
There are the two topics about the results of the TV-Satchel (for one and two million TV), but I either have missed a similar post about the IA ones or might be simply too soon.
Since code recycling is a thing, both might have the same distribution among the ingredients, but I am purely speculating.
The Archival Sack of Provisions might be interesting for the same reason.0