We need to talk about Columbine

erdYrrson · March 1

sarahthes wrote: »

erdYrrson wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

[...]If you spend those 5-7 hours to farm alchemy mats you shouldn't have that problem.

Yes... But then I won't have time to raid. Or PvP.

Ever tried the Waxed Apothecary Sacks for Tel Var on a larger scale? Honestly interested, if those are a valid alternative. I don't need them and I have read mixed posts/reviews (well, no surprise there).

They're not bad, but right now I'm using my tel var to buy hakeijo for personal use.

To put into perspective why it would be nice for things to change, right now I spend ~1m per raid night on heroism potions, and my total loot from a night of raiding typically is less than 50K. I'm not asking for more columbine. I'm asking for more raid loot so I can afford columbine.

Thank you for the reply

Of course there are always personal priorities, I used those PvP currencies also mostly on trait materials and in the past for the two crafting motifs...

The second part looks to me like a vicious circle: more loot -> more money -> columbine price increase. Nonetheless, the difference between costs and earnings sounds horrible. I don't want to open that sideshow, if and what the players could do to make it better, I know, competition and all that, so I leave it that.

Zama666 · March 1

Maybe we need a Gardening Skill - you can plant what you want, but have to deal with

-pests (Giant Rabbits), -
-disease (healing skills)
-weather (prayer)
-crime (that's right you can steal)
-fertilizer (different kind of monster dung - quests),
-the best land (may be the Antiquities skill line?),
-have a home
-prayer to the right diety for the right kind of herb (quests)

Yes, I know then the 'dung' market will be out of control....but more to do in the game!

Z

JanTanhide · March 1

I don't know why it's so high. I would never buy it for that amount of gold. I know a lot of people don't have the time or patience to farm materials but it may be the best thing to do so we don't pay these high prices.

I "farm as I go" which means exactly what it looks like. I've got quite a bit of materials now way up in the 30 and 40 K amounts in most mats.

Tandor · March 1

Thank goodness we don't have an auction house, you get inflation with that system. I know that because I read it on the forum.

erdYrrson · March 1

Dekrypted wrote: »

[...] This topic has come up so many times and it's clear that the developers don't have an interest in doing anything about it. There's no need to beat around the bush.

I wouldn't be that pessimistic, there is
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/650651/devs-interview-with-massively-about-upcoming-content-non-scribing-gold-road-story-thread/p1
some word about ZOS working on food/drinks/potions. Might take time... And active players need a lot of patience.
Inactive players, on the other hand, well...

freespirit · March 1

I keep a relatively small stock of columbine for my own use(200-300) and most weeks I sell a minimum of 200 up to around 400....

I never actively farm them!

I do crafting dailies on 8 characters every day(columbine is a common reward), I always have minimun 200 alchemy surveys, although it is one that I will do far more often than say wood or enchanting(and I always reset them).

I don't sleep well due to health issues, so early morning NPC ToT games are quite common.

My point is these 3 activities seem to earn me reasonable numbers of columbine to sell every week, without even really trying!
.
Even if you only earned 100 that's 400 pots you wouldn't have to buy/make!

I also have an expensive habit, it's called housing and I fully accept to partake in that habit I need to find ways to supply the mats I need.

We really shouldn't expect everything to be handed to us on a plate..... consider the prices of Stendar Stamp, Glass Eyes of Mora, Culanda Laquer..... the list is huge and farming some of these is horrendous!!

Daoin · March 1

sarahthes wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

I think the biggest issue is, the activities I spend my time on don't all give rewards that pay for the cost of doing the activities. I'm fine paying for tripots and heroism pots (which also use columbine) at current prices if I can generate enough gold to keep up with them.

My time is limited, and having to choose between either doing the thing that is fun, or farming to do the fun things at some later date, isn't really a great choice.

TLDR endgame raiding needs to provide more gold earning potential.

Level crafting on your character (or several). On the PC you can use addons to help, but even on console it goes quickly. Decent gold. Not massive amounts, but good for the limited time it takes.

Every single character has all crafting skill lines maxxed. I do writs daily. If I have time to do all 19 characters, I get enough gold from writs to buy almost 30 minutes worth of heroism pots (per week). So it's like 5-7 hours of work for 30 minutes of fun. Seems sustainable!

5 to 7 hours a day or 5 to 7 hours a week ? takes me for each character 5 to 10 minutes (max) for thier daily writs and you have to play ToT or kill dragons for heroism pots which may or may not give them to you, only 1 writ per day for alchemy. for me though the 5 to 10 mins does not usually count as dedicated crafting time because by the time i have queued and got a group for a daily random they are already done and im just standing around still waiting but if i just wanted the gold for those potions i would only do blacksmithing and clothing and at 19 per day each you should be pretty rich pretty fast, that would take a minute or 2 per char per day. 30 minutes is roughly 65 potions i think if you used them one after the other directly that is less that around 17 of each ingredient so if you had a really really bad week crafting and only did clothing the so gods were against you and you only got 20 wax that should pay for 30 minutes with a good profit to spare.. forgive my math though im no genius with those sort of things but looks roughly about right

Jaraal · March 1

erdYrrson wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

[...]If you spend those 5-7 hours to farm alchemy mats you shouldn't have that problem.

Yes... But then I won't have time to raid. Or PvP.

Ever tried the Waxed Apothecary Sacks for Tel Var on a larger scale? Honestly interested, if those are a valid alternative. I don't need them and I have read mixed posts/reviews (well, no surprise there).

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308192/1-000-000-tel-var-stones-spent-on-waxed-apothecary-parcels-w-video-results/p1

3,606 columbine per 1,000,000 tel var spent. It was by far the most common reagent received. That's enough for 14,424 tri pots. That works out to 20,626,320 gold if sold at current average PC/NA prices for purple Essence of Health potions.

And that's close to the average conversion rate on PC/NA, as Xivkyn polymorphs that cost 250,000 tel var sell for around 5 mil each.

sarahthes · March 1

Daoin wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

I think the biggest issue is, the activities I spend my time on don't all give rewards that pay for the cost of doing the activities. I'm fine paying for tripots and heroism pots (which also use columbine) at current prices if I can generate enough gold to keep up with them.

My time is limited, and having to choose between either doing the thing that is fun, or farming to do the fun things at some later date, isn't really a great choice.

TLDR endgame raiding needs to provide more gold earning potential.

Level crafting on your character (or several). On the PC you can use addons to help, but even on console it goes quickly. Decent gold. Not massive amounts, but good for the limited time it takes.

Every single character has all crafting skill lines maxxed. I do writs daily. If I have time to do all 19 characters, I get enough gold from writs to buy almost 30 minutes worth of heroism pots (per week). So it's like 5-7 hours of work for 30 minutes of fun. Seems sustainable!

5 to 7 hours a day or 5 to 7 hours a week ? takes me for each character 5 to 10 minutes (max) for thier daily writs and you have to play ToT or kill dragons for heroism pots which may or may not give them to you, only 1 writ per day for alchemy. for me though the 5 to 10 mins does not usually count as dedicated crafting time because by the time i have queued and got a group for a daily random they are already done and im just standing around still waiting but if i just wanted the gold for those potions i would only do blacksmithing and clothing and at 19 per day each you should be pretty rich pretty fast, that would take a minute or 2 per char per day

LOL 5-7 hours a week. I do all writs in the hopes to drop master writs. I also have somewhat long loading screens between characters.

I know how to farm. I know how to make gold. I'm saying that right now I'm losing gold each week despite devoting all my non raid and non PvP free time for farming. If my PvP and raid time also helped earn gold at a bit higher rate it would make things more palatable.

Daoin · March 1

well i cannot honestly speculate why anyone would use 60 ulti potions over 30 minutes as i do not pvp over many years highest alliance rank is still 22 but sounds like an expensive hobby

erdYrrson · March 1

Jaraal wrote: »

erdYrrson wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

[...]If you spend those 5-7 hours to farm alchemy mats you shouldn't have that problem.

Yes... But then I won't have time to raid. Or PvP.

Ever tried the Waxed Apothecary Sacks for Tel Var on a larger scale? Honestly interested, if those are a valid alternative. I don't need them and I have read mixed posts/reviews (well, no surprise there).

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308192/1-000-000-tel-var-stones-spent-on-waxed-apothecary-parcels-w-video-results/p1

3,606 columbine per 1,000,000 tel var spent. It was by far the most common reagent received. That's enough for 14,424 tri pots. That works out to 20,626,320 gold if sold at current average PC/NA prices for purple Essence of Health potions.

And that's close to the average conversion rate on PC/NA, as Xivkyn polymorphs that cost 250,000 tel var sell for around 5 mil each.

Thank you for the linked thread - that's indeed a large, large scale. Inspired me to do a similar search and there is even one with 2M Tel Var (same author). Gives about the same results, doubled of course, hence it seems ZOS hasn't fiddled with the formula, at least not between the years 2016 and 2019.
The baseline looks indeed not too bad, even solid, scaled down to a more reasonable amount of Tel Var.
Thanks again

Drammanoth · March 1

Zama666 wrote: »

Maybe we need a Gardening Skill - you can plant what you want, but have to deal with

-pests (Giant Rabbits), -
-disease (healing skills)
-weather (prayer)
-crime (that's right you can steal)
-fertilizer (different kind of monster dung - quests),
-the best land (may be the Antiquities skill line?),
-have a home
-prayer to the right diety for the right kind of herb (quests)

Yes, I know then the 'dung' market will be out of control....but more to do in the game!

Z

I'd prefer this to Tales of Tribute - SERIOUSLY. Tending to your garden rather than playing a card game - sign me up.

manukartofanu · March 1

Daoin wrote: »

well i cannot honestly speculate why anyone would use 60 ulti potions over 30 minutes as i do not pvp over many years highest alliance rank is still 22 but sounds like an expensive hobby

In the game, there's a cooldown of only one potion per minute, so if someone openly claims they can use two, it's essentially an admission of cheating.

erdYrrson · March 1

Daoin wrote: »

well i cannot honestly speculate why anyone would use 60 ulti potions over 30 minutes as i do not pvp over many years highest alliance rank is still 22 but sounds like an expensive hobby

Well you cannot. One potion has 45 seconds cooldown.

Daoin · March 1

ahh thought the potions lasted just over 47 seconds, so what id meant then is the cooldown is faster than the the potion runs out so they are also being used before the benifts of one have even been stopped. even more expensive habit

Daoin · March 1

kringled_1 · March 1

manukartofanu wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

well i cannot honestly speculate why anyone would use 60 ulti potions over 30 minutes as i do not pvp over many years highest alliance rank is still 22 but sounds like an expensive hobby

In the game, there's a cooldown of only one potion per minute, so if someone openly claims they can use two, it's essentially an admission of cheating.

It's straightforward to get potion cooldown to less than 30s with jewelry enchants. Probably not a choice most pve dps would make. But also I think those specific numbers just came from Daoins very rough guesswork.

Daoin · March 1

could i ask though if anyone else uses ulti potions at the rate of 70 or something per 30 minutes or 140 an hour presuming the post means the rate of consumption? seems like something i would try if i wanted to throw gold away

XSTRONG · March 1

Daoin wrote: »

well i cannot honestly speculate why anyone would use 60 ulti potions over 30 minutes as i do not pvp over many years highest alliance rank is still 22 but sounds like an expensive hobby

Tri pots and ulti pots are used both in pvp and pve.

erdYrrson · March 1

kringled_1 wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

well i cannot honestly speculate why anyone would use 60 ulti potions over 30 minutes as i do not pvp over many years highest alliance rank is still 22 but sounds like an expensive hobby

In the game, there's a cooldown of only one potion per minute, so if someone openly claims they can use two, it's essentially an admission of cheating.

It's straightforward to get potion cooldown to less than 30s with jewelry enchants. Probably not a choice most pve dps would make. But also I think those specific numbers just came from Daoins very rough guesswork.

Ah yes, the Glyph of Potion Speed...
Thanks for the reminder!

Edit: removed some draft text

sarahthes · March 1

Daoin wrote: »

could i ask though if anyone else uses ulti potions at the rate of 70 or something per 30 minutes or 140 an hour presuming the post means the rate of consumption? seems like something i would try if i wanted to throw gold away

I use about 110 potions in a 2 hour raid block, which is about average I think for an endgame raider and takes into account resets. For a core which runs 6 hours a week I use about 1.5 stacks. Then I use 1-2 stacks of potions a day pvping right now (event), less outside of events. And some during dungeons, and my less sweaty trials group (4 hours a week, no heroism pots).

XSTRONG · March 1

sarahthes wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

could i ask though if anyone else uses ulti potions at the rate of 70 or something per 30 minutes or 140 an hour presuming the post means the rate of consumption? seems like something i would try if i wanted to throw gold away

I use about 110 potions in a 2 hour raid block, which is about average I think for an endgame raider and takes into account resets.

Infinite Archive takes alot of potions, I use the trash pots for Arc 1 and 2 then tri pots.

Daoin · March 1

in pve every day i keep my tri pots for each character topped upto 200 of crafted tri pots some groups i need to use alot some groups hardly any. think i have used about 200 maybe over last couple of day but i do alot of pve activities i used to enjoy using the ulti potions too but found myself i dont really need them after some time and happy to drop the ulti for health. i do like to keep a stack of ulti potions on hand though should i decide i want to use one. in my world the price of materials and the availablity is good even though under my breath i curse the prices most of the time when im out buying mats

but because i do not enjoy the thought of killing dragons all day long i guess i cannot complain at the prices back then though seems to be about the same now columbine seems to be steadily on the rise though lately i have seen a drop and try for 1700 each now

Daoin · March 1

or better, probably no point in logging in for that lol will have gone now. the mountain flower and bugloss are so cheap all the time never a problem there with price either

EF321 · March 1

Jaraal wrote: »

erdYrrson wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

[...]If you spend those 5-7 hours to farm alchemy mats you shouldn't have that problem.

Yes... But then I won't have time to raid. Or PvP.

Ever tried the Waxed Apothecary Sacks for Tel Var on a larger scale? Honestly interested, if those are a valid alternative. I don't need them and I have read mixed posts/reviews (well, no surprise there).

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308192/1-000-000-tel-var-stones-spent-on-waxed-apothecary-parcels-w-video-results/p1

3,606 columbine per 1,000,000 tel var spent. It was by far the most common reagent received. That's enough for 14,424 tri pots. That works out to 20,626,320 gold if sold at current average PC/NA prices for purple Essence of Health potions.

And that's close to the average conversion rate on PC/NA, as Xivkyn polymorphs that cost 250,000 tel var sell for around 5 mil each.

There's another old thread from same PvP player, where this player complains that these satchels... drop too much columbine and suggests drop rates should be reduced

Yes, it wasn't "meta" at the time...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/494171/waxed-apothecary-parcels-2-000-000-tel-var-stones-results-drop-rates
A good example of why developers should not be catering to current patch meta chasers and make adjustments based on what youtube video is popular this month.

Jaraal · March 1

Daoin wrote: »

could i ask though if anyone else uses ulti potions at the rate of 70 or something per 30 minutes or 140 an hour presuming the post means the rate of consumption? seems like something i would try if i wanted to throw gold away

In large scale field/gate/bridge fights in Cyrodiil, most people are using a potion (tri pots for most) every 47 seconds. And these fights can last 30 minutes to an hour. If you don't, you are risking a forced trip back to base. Nobody wants that.

Grizzbeorn · March 1

Jierdanit wrote: »

LOL. Imagine expecting people to spend 5-7 hours a week to get enough materials to keep using potions that are necessary to be as strong as possible.

Somebody has to do it in order for you to be able to complain about the prices they are charging.

Tandor · March 1

Daoin wrote: »

could i ask though if anyone else uses ulti potions at the rate of 70 or something per 30 minutes or 140 an hour presuming the post means the rate of consumption? seems like something i would try if i wanted to throw gold away

I'd also like to think that whether it was endgame PvE or PvP the outcome would be determined more by skill than by how fast you can quaff an expensive potion!

Tandor · March 1

Jaraal wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

could i ask though if anyone else uses ulti potions at the rate of 70 or something per 30 minutes or 140 an hour presuming the post means the rate of consumption? seems like something i would try if i wanted to throw gold away

In large scale field/gate/bridge fights in Cyrodiil, most people are using a potion (tri pots for most) every 47 seconds. And these fights can last 30 minutes to an hour. If you don't, you are risking a forced trip back to base. Nobody wants that.

It seems rather pointless if everyone is throwing away mats and gold on the same potions to remain competitive with each other. How about having a campaign in which potions are disabled?

ElderSmitter · March 1

I'll say what people do not want to say out loud.

This goes back to Chromium Plating and Dreugh Wax before the jewelry change last Major Update and Corn Flower before Alliance Pots could be bought.

ESO is built. and thrives in many different ways. One of them is the Guild community. It is so Big behind the scenes that many posting on here have no idea how big it really is..

All i will say is this.

Don't you think it is strange something with 300+ Pages on TTC can hold a Price so strong besides the average joe schmoe seller selling for less to quickly free up some gold.

Use your Brain and realize there will always be a few items that magically do not come down in price. Supply and Demand have nothing to do with it.

Cheers!