The hemorrhage status effect is pretty weak now.

sneakymitchell · February 6

There isn’t a lot of bleed in the game. Only spamable is bloodthirst and that is a dual wield skill morph. To think the bleed status effect going be ok but it has been gone entirely making it like fire status effect but worse due to requirements of stacking the bleed. This will also (with remove of mangle) will buff players in being more tanky in hp cause how pvp is now with 1 shot builds if you are below 25k hp. It is unhealthy for the uselessness of bleed. Players will not care of bleed they rather have physical cause it will give you 100 weapon damage buff which effects all damage and skills and sets.

Dalsinthus · February 6

I love that warden is so bad of a dd, and cutting dive is so bad of a spammable, that you just totally deleted it from existence.

I do agree with you on this though - the change is a big nerf. I suspect this is even the case for wardens who have access to the most bleed skills.

Tannus15 · February 6

hemorrhage is just bad if left as is. building stacks post trap nerf is too hard and the base tick is too weak.

buff the base tick so that it's not terrible if you can't build stacks.

Vaqual · February 6

There is still Unleashed Terror. But I also don't like when singular sets get so disproportionally favoured. At the same time, I really hate trap, good riddance^^.

chessalavakia_ESO · February 6

If you run Serpent's Disdain keeping the three stacks up is doable.

merpins · February 6

It might prove to be fine in the major update in June. With the skill diversity that's being added, Bleed might see a comeback there. But I'd love to see it have a boost to its proc chance. Bleed Warden is the only Warden I like, and it has been pretty bad lately. Nerf after nerf after nerf to bleed, and though this could be a buff given the right situation, as it sits right now, it's a nerf. The biggest hit with it is stam warden.

MudcrabAttack · February 7

The changes to proc chance are erasing anything cool about the status changes, especially in PVE as far as I can tell.

Someone mentioned full charged traits are going to be a thing, but only in the endless archive as far as I can tell. Outside the archive what used to be around 3% flame and 3% poison (dual wield equipped) is getting closer to 1-1/2 or 2% on just single target fights. In AOE it drops off a lot. Disease AOE damage in PVE fighting is a laughably tiny amount of damage. You might as well go with precise and not build for status effects anymore

Finedaible · February 8

I would not be surprised to see a bleed damage enchant being planned for a later update, but no way to be certain. As of right now, there are a few niche options to stack bleeds, but with Scribing on the horizon perhaps they are accounting for some new addition.

Tannus15 · February 8

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

The changes to proc chance are erasing anything cool about the status changes, especially in PVE as far as I can tell.

Someone mentioned full charged traits are going to be a thing, but only in the endless archive as far as I can tell. Outside the archive what used to be around 3% flame and 3% poison (dual wield equipped) is getting closer to 1-1/2 or 2% on just single target fights. In AOE it drops off a lot. Disease AOE damage in PVE fighting is a laughably tiny amount of damage. You might as well go with precise and not build for status effects anymore

what? literally every parse i've seen from PTS is running full charged.

ESO_Nightingale · February 8

Tannus15 wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

The changes to proc chance are erasing anything cool about the status changes, especially in PVE as far as I can tell.

Someone mentioned full charged traits are going to be a thing, but only in the endless archive as far as I can tell. Outside the archive what used to be around 3% flame and 3% poison (dual wield equipped) is getting closer to 1-1/2 or 2% on just single target fights. In AOE it drops off a lot. Disease AOE damage in PVE fighting is a laughably tiny amount of damage. You might as well go with precise and not build for status effects anymore

what? literally every parse i've seen from PTS is running full charged.

can confirm, precise and charged dps is still the same on frost warden with charged pulling slightly ahead.

MudcrabAttack · February 8

Tannus15 wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

The changes to proc chance are erasing anything cool about the status changes, especially in PVE as far as I can tell.

Someone mentioned full charged traits are going to be a thing, but only in the endless archive as far as I can tell. Outside the archive what used to be around 3% flame and 3% poison (dual wield equipped) is getting closer to 1-1/2 or 2% on just single target fights. In AOE it drops off a lot. Disease AOE damage in PVE fighting is a laughably tiny amount of damage. You might as well go with precise and not build for status effects anymore

what? literally every parse i've seen from PTS is running full charged.

Before or after hemorrhage took a nosedive? And I don’t play warden, usually Arcanist and nightblade, and I don’t like the idea of throwing away a nirn trait for a little more status proc, especially when a vast majority of trial fights have a big aoe component

Janni · February 8

Yep, the reason I started using rending slashes was because it was a decent opener for my warden brawler in pvp after they gave it hemmoraging. The extra dot and minor mangle made up for the lack of raw power. After the nerfed the cutting dive to complete uselessness I had little for choices.

Now it seems I'm just going to have to go back to silver bolt which has better range, deals more damage to vampires, and is aoe. I guess in a few patches zos will see every stamwarden that runs dualwield has done the same and they'll nerf that too XD

mmtaniac · February 8

It's not free damage right now. You must work now to make it work. Its good change. Its overall damage is stronger but harder to build up. Right now you need build to make it work.

Billium813 · February 9

I like the design DIRECTION of Hemorrhaging, but the current implementation doesn't feel complete. The big issue is sourcing Bleed Damage and procing Hemorrhaging for stacks.

I agree that 1 Bleed source should not be enough to get to 3 Hemorrhaging stacks. Barbed Trap alone should not be enough to get max stacks alone. Fair. However, with both Carve and Barbed Trap, it's still almost impossible to get more then 2 stacks. 90% of the time, it's ALL riding on the Barbed Trap guaranteed Hemorrhaging stack.

Ok, so add more Bleed sources, so you can get more chances to proc Hemorrhaging, right? Ok... add what then? For non-Warden classes, what do you use? Ah, 5 piece sets. Just use Unleashed Terror to get stacks. Why would I burn a 5 piece set just to get to 3 stacks? Adding a Skill, or using an Enchantment, or even a Weapon trait. These are minor concessions if you really want to get to 3 stacks. But not a whole set.

The intention of the new Hemorrhaging design is to reward players that can maintain the stacks. It's a good intention, but we need more sources of Bleed damage to make it possible for players to even get there with gameplay, without having to completely remake their entire build just to get back to where we were

----suggestion----

Make LA w/ Daggers, Swords, Greatswords, and Bows deal Bleed Damage (10% base chance for Hemorrhaging for Single-target direct attack), with HAs always applying the Hemorrhaging status effect

Make LA w/ Axes, Maces, Battle Axes, Mauls deal Physical Damage (10% base chance for Sundered for Single-target direct attack), with HAs always applying the Sundered status effect

With this change, the focus is placed on gameplay and weapon choice, NOT on simple build and Skill choice. Have melee builds perform the same way that Destro Staves deal different types of damage. Reward players for melee gameplay choices (weaving, using HAs).

Panderbander · February 9

Billium813 wrote: »

I like the design DIRECTION of Hemorrhaging, but the current implementation doesn't feel complete. The big issue is sourcing Bleed Damage and procing Hemorrhaging for stacks.

I agree that 1 Bleed source should not be enough to get to 3 Hemorrhaging stacks. Barbed Trap alone should not be enough to get max stacks alone. Fair. However, with both Carve and Barbed Trap, it's still almost impossible to get more then 2 stacks. 90% of the time, it's ALL riding on the Barbed Trap guaranteed Hemorrhaging stack.

Ok, so add more Bleed sources, so you can get more chances to proc Hemorrhaging, right? Ok... add what then? For non-Warden classes, what do you use? Ah, 5 piece sets. Just use Unleashed Terror to get stacks. Why would I burn a 5 piece set just to get to 3 stacks? Adding a Skill, or using an Enchantment, or even a Weapon trait. These are minor concessions if you really want to get to 3 stacks. But not a whole set.

The intention of the new Hemorrhaging design is to reward players that can maintain the stacks. It's a good intention, but we need more sources of Bleed damage to make it possible for players to even get there with gameplay, without having to completely remake their entire build just to get back to where we were

----suggestion----

Make LA w/ Daggers, Swords, Greatswords, and Bows deal Bleed Damage (10% base chance for Hemorrhaging for Single-target direct attack), with HAs always applying the Hemorrhaging status effect

Make LA w/ Axes, Maces, Battle Axes, Mauls deal Physical Damage (10% base chance for Sundered for Single-target direct attack), with HAs always applying the Sundered status effect

With this change, the focus is placed on gameplay and weapon choice, NOT on simple build and Skill choice. Have melee builds perform the same way that Destro Staves deal different types of damage. Reward players for melee gameplay choices (weaving, using HAs).

Obviously werewolf already has a bleed attached to the Berserker morph of the transformation but I would love to see the same thing applied to werewolf light and heavy attacks if this were implemented as they replace the damage type of the equipped weapon and require the player to be in melee range to use like any other melee weapon, regardless of equipped weapon.