Will we Templar players at least get the courtesy of a explanation why we have been ignored for u41?

Galeriano · January 31

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Find me a higher parse than this on Templar and we can talk about single-target contribution, because the closest I can find is over 8k DPS behind.

Find me real trial fight where sorc comes with stacked 500 ulti and ulti dumps overload at the beggining. Making stamsorc dummy parses as any source of comparision is really out of place since these parses are pretty much cheesed and can;t be reproduced anywhere outside of the dummy. Templar in real fights is in fact outparsing sorc in single target.

That’s weird because when I read the combat metric it said that Overload only factored for 3.9% of the overall fight, which if he parsed for 200k (he didn’t) 3.9% of 200k would be 7.8k damage.

He parsed for 140k though, which means that Power Overload only gave him a 5k DPS lead, which still leaves Stam Sorc ahead of Plar by a few thousand damage per second.

Funny thing that though, because a Sorcerer can give the group Minor Prophecy a completely unique buff that doesn’t have a stacking problem like Sorcery does and it also has that Atronach ultimate that gives the entire group Major Berserk, what does Templar have?

Major Maim?

Update 41 Sorcerer is getting that very debuff on a skill that costs under 4,050 magicka that applies an Ultimate level debuff for 10 seconds caked into a root that does damage or heals and applies Minor Vitality.

So You didn't find the fight I was asking for?

It seems like You're not completly aware of how DPS works mathematically when parsing on dummy vs real trials and it's a big too long lecture for me to give it. All You should know is that there is plenty of factors that differ between dummy and real fights. If it wouldnt be the case we would be seeing way more sorcs in trials last few years.

When it comes to single target DPS in trials I can assure You. templar beats sorc and it's not even a competition.

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

Galeriano wrote: »

When it comes to single target DPS in trials I can assure You. templar beats sorc and it's not even the competition.

We have been… every group I run with for raid night has an MK/Spaulder Sorc giving everyone Minor Prophecy and Major Berserk while still breaking over 100k easy in a support set and a support mythic that ravages their sustain.

Here’s my question… why are you hyper focusing on the Overload part of the parse? I’ve already established that even without Overload, the parse would be higher than Templar by a few thousand, but you want a fight where a Sorcerer would be able to stack 500 Overload?

Every Asylum Sanctorium and Cloudrest run where your players are worth their weight.

Nilandia · January 31

Leia98 wrote: »

I love the fact that you completely ignore the fact that templar supports are completely useless atm and just talk about dps as if it were the only role in this game

Ofc templar dps is in a good spot atm, but supports are not. Templar tanks are literally one of the jokes of the community. Templar healers are lagging behind rn so yes, templar does need something to be a viable support

I'm a DPS main, and I was replying to the claim that templar PVE DPS is only used in niche situations. I was speaking to what I am familiar with because of my experience. I do not have experience as a templar support, so I did not reply to that. I would not be offering a helpful contribution to discuss something I have no experience in.

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

Either way, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to assess that the majority of unhappy players are Templars and Necromancers.

Here we are Update 41 with a playstyle shift for Necromancer that will finally give them a place to excel and Templar didn’t even receive an honorable mention week 1.

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

Oh I almost forgot…

@Galeriano, where are all the Templars running that wicked competitive Wrathsun set?

Nilandia · January 31

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

When it comes to single target DPS in trials I can assure You. templar beats sorc and it's not even the competition.

We have been… every group I run with for raid night has an MK/Spaulder Sorc giving everyone Minor Prophecy and Major Berserk while still breaking over 100k easy in a support set and a support mythic that ravages their sustain.

Here’s my question… why are you hyper focusing on the Overload part of the parse? I’ve already established that even without Overload, the parse would be higher than Templar by a few thousand, but you want a fight where a Sorcerer would be able to stack 500 Overload?

Every Asylum Sanctorium and Cloudrest run where your players are worth their weight.

That you seem to think a class's dummy parse somehow correlates to the class's performance in content is enough to tell me that continued discussion on the matter would be an exercise in frustration. Good day to you.

Galeriano · January 31

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Oh I almost forgot…

@Galeriano, where are all the Templars running that wicked competitive Wrathsun set?

Huh? Care to elaborate?

Galeriano · January 31

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

When it comes to single target DPS in trials I can assure You. templar beats sorc and it's not even the competition.

We have been… every group I run with for raid night has an MK/Spaulder Sorc giving everyone Minor Prophecy and Major Berserk while still breaking over 100k easy in a support set and a support mythic that ravages their sustain.

Here’s my question… why are you hyper focusing on the Overload part of the parse? I’ve already established that even without Overload, the parse would be higher than Templar by a few thousand, but you want a fight where a Sorcerer would be able to stack 500 Overload?

Every Asylum Sanctorium and Cloudrest run where your players are worth their weight.

Breaking 100k in support sets is not something unusual. It's not like You're fighting naked, You are just loosing some portion of Your dmg. You can find also EC necros getting pretty nice parses in boss fights.

I am not hyper focusing on overload I was just explaining to You one of the reasons why sorc parses on a dummy are so much higher than parses of other classes. 5,5k additional DPS is not something You can just ignore and if overload wouldn;'t be used that sorc's DPS would be lower by more than 5,5k. There are also other factors in favour of templar in real fights like way better execute which starts to play very important role in group fights where multiple players are engaged with boss's HP contraru to a dummy where everyone have equall acces to 100% of dummy HP. This is not a coincidence that some trials groups are taking templars as parse bots.

What do You mean by every Asylum and CR?

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

Nilandia wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

When it comes to single target DPS in trials I can assure You. templar beats sorc and it's not even the competition.

We have been… every group I run with for raid night has an MK/Spaulder Sorc giving everyone Minor Prophecy and Major Berserk while still breaking over 100k easy in a support set and a support mythic that ravages their sustain.

Here’s my question… why are you hyper focusing on the Overload part of the parse? I’ve already established that even without Overload, the parse would be higher than Templar by a few thousand, but you want a fight where a Sorcerer would be able to stack 500 Overload?

Every Asylum Sanctorium and Cloudrest run where your players are worth their weight.

That you seem to think a class's dummy parse somehow correlates to the class's performance in content is enough to tell me that continued discussion on the matter would be an exercise in frustration. Good day to you.

That’s exactly what the dummy tells you, especially when you’re talking about raids where you’re quite literally parsing tens of millions of health.

Templar becomes ranged at 40%, in fights where melee can participate, Stam Sorc doesn’t have any problem keeping damage-on-target, and that’s any fight you’ll have Templar participate for the first 60%.

All of the buffs Templar would receive from a raid setting, every other class also receives, including Dragonknight and Arcanist.

If you didn’t want to have a discussion, you probably shouldn’t have jumped into a thread where everyone is talking about how devoid of fun it is to play a Templar just to say that you think one aspect of the class is fine in a particular niché.

I’m happy you’re happy, but it’s not great to write off the concerns of others.

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

Galeriano wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Oh I almost forgot…

@Galeriano, where are all the Templars running that wicked competitive Wrathsun set?

Huh? Care to elaborate?

You don’t remember our discussion about the uselessness of Wrathsun?

I was pushing for a buff to the set before it hit live and you opposed the idea because you parsed “decent” on it, now it’s live and I don’t know a single player running it. I haven’t heard Exe-Queen @Nilandia mention it one time despite claiming Templar is essential for Sanity’s Edge HM because of their execute power, and you defended it as a set that ramped in execute.

That’s kind of how it feels here.

I’m pushing for some positive change for the class and damage isn’t even the main priority that it needs but I’m talking in circles with people that insist although it parses weaker than other classes, cleaves weaker than other classes, and buffs/debuffs less than other classes, that it’s not a problem?

If Templar provided anything unique to the group, it wouldn’t even be offensive that it parses 5k less than StamSorc, but it has nothing, even worse it has less now that the Major Maim addition to Encase has Sorc healer keeping it up better.

Bottom line is this, Templar needs to support the group better, that’s the priority.

SandandStars · January 31

Nope. You won’t.

Galeriano · January 31

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Oh I almost forgot…

@Galeriano, where are all the Templars running that wicked competitive Wrathsun set?

Huh? Care to elaborate?

You don’t remember our discussion about the uselessness of Wrathsun?

I was pushing for a buff to the set before it hit live and you opposed the idea because you parsed “decent” on it, now it’s live and I don’t know a single player running it. I haven’t heard Exe-Queen @Nilandia mention it one time despite claiming Templar is essential for Sanity’s Edge HM because of their execute power, and you defended it as a set that ramped in execute.

That’s kind of how it feels here.

I’m pushing for some positive change for the class and damage isn’t even the main priority that it needs but I’m talking in circles with people that insist although it parses weaker than other classes, cleaves weaker than other classes, and buffs/debuffs less than other classes, that it’s not a problem?

If Templar provided anything unique to the group, it wouldn’t even be offensive that it parses 5k less than StamSorc, but it has nothing, even worse it has less now that the Major Maim addition to Encase has Sorc healer keeping it up better.

Bottom line is this, Templar needs to support the group better, that’s the priority.

Could You tell me where excatly did I said all these things? Because I find this really strange considering that not only I wasn't parsing with this set, I wasn't even logging on templar during U39 PTS cycle so it seems like You're putting someone else's words into my mouth. As far as I recall I was considering all endless archive sets as not so great since day 1 of PTS.

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

Galeriano wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Oh I almost forgot…

@Galeriano, where are all the Templars running that wicked competitive Wrathsun set?

Huh? Care to elaborate?

You don’t remember our discussion about the uselessness of Wrathsun?

I was pushing for a buff to the set before it hit live and you opposed the idea because you parsed “decent” on it, now it’s live and I don’t know a single player running it. I haven’t heard Exe-Queen @Nilandia mention it one time despite claiming Templar is essential for Sanity’s Edge HM because of their execute power, and you defended it as a set that ramped in execute.

That’s kind of how it feels here.

I’m pushing for some positive change for the class and damage isn’t even the main priority that it needs but I’m talking in circles with people that insist although it parses weaker than other classes, cleaves weaker than other classes, and buffs/debuffs less than other classes, that it’s not a problem?

If Templar provided anything unique to the group, it wouldn’t even be offensive that it parses 5k less than StamSorc, but it has nothing, even worse it has less now that the Major Maim addition to Encase has Sorc healer keeping it up better.

Bottom line is this, Templar needs to support the group better, that’s the priority.

Could You tell me where excatly did I said all these things? Because I find this really strange considering that not only I wasn't parsing with this set, I wasn't even logging on templar during U39 PTS cycle so it seems like You're putting someone else's words into my mouth. As far as I recall I was considering all endless archive sets as not so great since day 1 of PTS.

Guilty as charged, it was @Tannus15 who I was having the debate with about the set, but your name did come up in the discussions which was why you were familiar.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644966/class-sets-sorc-and-templar-changes-miss-the-mark-dk-and-nb-have-potential-bc-of-their-design

Tanus wasn’t the one arguing the point on the thread, it was someone else, but it was his parse they were referencing.

Either way, it’s the same energy that person was giving off, that you are currently, @Galeriano.

Templar needs better in-class group support, why do you insist on dragging me through circles about DPS?

QuasiGumbo · January 31

Nilandia wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

I’m sure a great player, regardless of their class, can force themselves into a group, but nowhere on any of those lists were an “execute dd” referenced, nor Templar.

People agree that Templar isn’t fun to play, and I can attest personally to the fact that it isn’t included in fully composed groups that are consistently hitting leaderboards, so what purpose does it have?

I went to ESOLogs to check for team scores. It's not a complete sample because not everyone is a part of a team or posts public logs, but it paints a decent picture. All scores are from the current patch.

21 of the top 25 team scores posted this patch in Sanity's Edge have at least 1 templar DPS, sometimes 2 https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/17#metric=score

15 of the top 25 team scores in Dreadsail Reef have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/16#metric=score

11 of the top 25 team scores in Kyne's Aegis have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/14#metric=score

12 of the top 25 team scores in Sunspire have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/12#metric=score

15 of the top 25 team scores in Hel Ra Citadel have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/2#metric=score

13 of the top 25 team scores in Aetherian Archive have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/1#metric=score

Templars were rarer in Rockgrove, Cloudrest, Asylum Sanctorium, Halls of Fabrication, Maw of Lorkhaj, and Sanctum Ophidia. But they were still present even then. The top 2 scores in Rockgrove, for example, have a templar DPS.

Yes, arcanists are plentiful. They're currently having their moment in the sun. I have one myself that I bring to Rockgrove hard mode. But I also cleared Sanity's Edge hard mode on a templar, where I was the execute specialist. In the Discord servers I'm in, veteran hard mode PUG trial rosters will outright list a slot for templars.

So if you still believe templars have no place in PVE, I don't know what to tell you. That's by far not the case of my own experience.

You basically just gave examples of groups that are only using "Execution Specialists." There is no benefit to adding templar to a trial group outside of execution and even then its ok, it is usable.

There are others in the thread I have seen make allusions to certain parses and such, almost always you will find any decent templar DPS is purely from them being an "Execution Specialist" or utilizing a build that you can copy paste to any other class and get more benefit for yourself and or the group making the Templar not really useful.

People posting these threads want the class identity back to being something that is flexible and not an "Execution Specialist," or in the world of PvP; a beambot, stalemate champion, or the stun meteor please dont recover I can't do anything else.

MashmalloMan · January 31

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Funny thing that though, because a Sorcerer can give the group Minor Prophecy a completely unique buff that doesn’t have a stacking problem like Sorcery does while hitting harder than Templar while also buffing the entire group with an Atronach ultimate that gives an entire group Major Berserk, what does Templar have for a group buff ultimate?

NB's Minor Savagery buff?

Idk, unless you're implying that it's unique because NB's don't get a spot in groups either? I haven't played since U35. Either way, hybridization completion needs to fix this. NB and Sorc vs Templar and DK should not have overlapping group buffs... among the other problems you raised like Sorc having Major Berserk and Templar having nothing.

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Funny thing that though, because a Sorcerer can give the group Minor Prophecy a completely unique buff that doesn’t have a stacking problem like Sorcery does while hitting harder than Templar while also buffing the entire group with an Atronach ultimate that gives an entire group Major Berserk, what does Templar have for a group buff ultimate?

NB's Minor Savagery buff?

Idk, unless you're implying that it's unique because NB's don't get a spot in groups either? I haven't played since U35. Either way, hybridization completion needs to fix this. NB and Sorc vs Templar and DK should not have overlapping group buffs.

They stack.

One effects Weapon Crit chance, the other effects Spell Crit chance, groups need both to get the most out of their damage, emphasis on Nightblade Healers.

For context, I’m completely fine with Sorcerers being necessary in group, in an ideal world, every class would have their place, and right now Dragonknight is double dipping so the obvious buff to Templar would be to compete with Dragonknight for main tank, or to have their own buff set akin to ZenKosh, EC, or MK.

Templar had Azureblight and you’d find one on every team, but for some strange reason that synergy with Jabs was taken away.

MashmalloMan · January 31

Dekrypted wrote: »

What's wrong with the class being fun to play and actually being useful? I don't understand the endgame of detractors in this thread.

Welcome to the ESO forums, where nothing is allowed to be changed or progress. Everything should stay exactly the same while we all complain about how OP x is.

Don't even get me started on all the people against spell crafting over the past 10 years that said not to add it. Well it's here. It's coming. GTFO if you care so much about balance, I'm here for fun and I want more options for combat.

MashmalloMan · January 31

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Funny thing that though, because a Sorcerer can give the group Minor Prophecy a completely unique buff that doesn’t have a stacking problem like Sorcery does while hitting harder than Templar while also buffing the entire group with an Atronach ultimate that gives an entire group Major Berserk, what does Templar have for a group buff ultimate?

NB's Minor Savagery buff?

Idk, unless you're implying that it's unique because NB's don't get a spot in groups either? I haven't played since U35. Either way, hybridization completion needs to fix this. NB and Sorc vs Templar and DK should not have overlapping group buffs.

They stack.

One effects Weapon Crit chance, the other effects Spell Crit chance, groups need both to get the most out of their damage, emphasis on Nightblade Healers.

For context, I’m completely fine with Sorcerers being necessary in group, in an ideal world, every class would have their place, and right now Dragonknight is double dipping so the obvious buff to Templar would be to compete with Dragonknight for main tank, or to have their own buff set akin to ZenKosh, EC, or MK.

Well so does Sorcery/Brutality. A stam player for example would use stam+savagery+brutality pots, so they would still want at least 1 NB and DK in there. Same goes for a magicka player wanting a Templar and Sorcerer.

Again, I'm a bit naïve, I'm probably missing some endgame pve trial composition thing that covers the point you're raising regarding the minor buffs.

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Funny thing that though, because a Sorcerer can give the group Minor Prophecy a completely unique buff that doesn’t have a stacking problem like Sorcery does while hitting harder than Templar while also buffing the entire group with an Atronach ultimate that gives an entire group Major Berserk, what does Templar have for a group buff ultimate?

NB's Minor Savagery buff?

Idk, unless you're implying that it's unique because NB's don't get a spot in groups either? I haven't played since U35. Either way, hybridization completion needs to fix this. NB and Sorc vs Templar and DK should not have overlapping group buffs.

They stack.

One effects Weapon Crit chance, the other effects Spell Crit chance, groups need both to get the most out of their damage, emphasis on Nightblade Healers.

For context, I’m completely fine with Sorcerers being necessary in group, in an ideal world, every class would have their place, and right now Dragonknight is double dipping so the obvious buff to Templar would be to compete with Dragonknight for main tank, or to have their own buff set akin to ZenKosh, EC, or MK.

Well so does Sorcery/Brutality. A stam player for example would use stam+savagery+brutality pots, so they would still want at least 1 NB and DK in there. Same goes for a magicka player wanting a Templar and Sorcerer.

Again, I'm a bit naïve, I'm probably missing some endgame pve trial composition thing that covers the point you're raising regarding the minor buffs.

Hybridization just wasn’t finished.

Stamina skills still have “weapon critical rating” and magicka skills have “spell critical rating” why Brutality and Sorcery are in competition with each other instead of stacking, is because your skills scale with the highest stat, not the combined total of both.

What that means is that if you have Sorcery and Brutality, your skill damage would be the same if you dropped either of them.

That’s also part of the problem with running Critical Surge on a StamSorc, your Magicka skills will always have a higher critical chance than your Stamina ones even though you’re primarily using Stamina. Unless of course you have a Nightblade in group too.

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

What's wrong with the class being fun to play and actually being useful? I don't understand the endgame of detractors in this thread.

Don't even get me started on all the people against spell crafting over the past 10 years that said not to add it. Well it's here. It's coming...

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

#SpellCraftingFor10thAniversaryChapter

Keep the dream alive!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644515/tenth-anniversary-gift-spellcrafting#latest

Seems like only three months ago…

Galeriano · January 31

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Oh I almost forgot…

@Galeriano, where are all the Templars running that wicked competitive Wrathsun set?

Huh? Care to elaborate?

You don’t remember our discussion about the uselessness of Wrathsun?

I was pushing for a buff to the set before it hit live and you opposed the idea because you parsed “decent” on it, now it’s live and I don’t know a single player running it. I haven’t heard Exe-Queen @Nilandia mention it one time despite claiming Templar is essential for Sanity’s Edge HM because of their execute power, and you defended it as a set that ramped in execute.

That’s kind of how it feels here.

I’m pushing for some positive change for the class and damage isn’t even the main priority that it needs but I’m talking in circles with people that insist although it parses weaker than other classes, cleaves weaker than other classes, and buffs/debuffs less than other classes, that it’s not a problem?

If Templar provided anything unique to the group, it wouldn’t even be offensive that it parses 5k less than StamSorc, but it has nothing, even worse it has less now that the Major Maim addition to Encase has Sorc healer keeping it up better.

Bottom line is this, Templar needs to support the group better, that’s the priority.

Could You tell me where excatly did I said all these things? Because I find this really strange considering that not only I wasn't parsing with this set, I wasn't even logging on templar during U39 PTS cycle so it seems like You're putting someone else's words into my mouth. As far as I recall I was considering all endless archive sets as not so great since day 1 of PTS.

Guilty as charged, it was @Tannus15 who I was having the debate with about the set, but your name did come up in the discussions which was why you were familiar.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644966/class-sets-sorc-and-templar-changes-miss-the-mark-dk-and-nb-have-potential-bc-of-their-design

Tanus wasn’t the one arguing the point on the thread, it was someone else, but it was his parse they were referencing.

Either way, it’s the same energy that person was giving off, that you are currently, @Galeriano.

Templar needs better in-class group support, why do you insist on dragging me through circles about DPS?

Not nice to accuse someone of saying something before double checking.

What energy excatly am I giving. I just pointed out that comparing dummy parses to a stamsorc is pointless and gives no argument at all since sorc is artificially increeasing them in a way that he won;t be doing outside of a dummy.

Does arcanist DD provides group with some exquisite group support? No, but he is still most popular DD in a trials. Thing is that if You have enough DPS You don't need lots of group support to be usefull and if not for a arcanist templars would be right now top DDs maybe alongside DKs. Yeah it would be nice to add some flavour into templar class since it's lost all unique support deatures it had but it's not like this is a must have thing to do for templar to be more popular in PvE.

Oh and just FYI 132k is not a top templar DPS on a dummy. There is a parse with 136k. It's actually pretty funny parse since it was made by bowplar who lately got world's best score i vAA

Vulkunne · January 31

Dekrypted wrote: »

No. They're too busy with the golden child, Nightblade trying to figure out what they want to do for it in pve while making it stronger in pvp every patch AND buffing their second favorite class. That being Dragonknight.

Keep beaming you silly plar.
(Mods I'm just being sarcastic, please don't come for me 😅)

With the pool noodler.

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

Galeriano wrote: »

Does arcanist DD provides group with some exquisite group support?

Because of Zena’s Empowering Disk, even after Arcanist’s damage gets nerfed, you will always have one in group for Minor Courage.

Galeriano wrote: »

Oh and just FYI 132k is not a top templar DPS on a dummy. There is a parse with 136k. It's actually pretty funny parse since it was made by bowplar who lately got world's best score i vAA

You found a higher Templar parse? Nice.
Here’s a higher Sorcerer one.

https://youtu.be/-RlMUFGtHhk?si=8_gy_GVrN9IvWrRn

boi_anachronism_ · January 31

We gotta remember: temp and blade are in opposite spots. Templar is still pretty solid in many pve situations (it still really needs work though in my opinion). Nightblade is dirt in 12 man. Templar is hurting in pvp but blades are strong. Pve is much more populated. Thats how they tend to focus when balancing. Funny thing is that what blades desperately need to be relevant for group content is cleave but they always buff single target skills.

Minno · January 31

There's like 6-7 spells worth of impact in that tooltip lol. break that badboy apart and add 3-4 new morphs of each spell. I wonder if their engine just doesn't have the space to fit new spell morphs to do a proper chess balance audit. No spell or class should have that many major/minor buffs, should be spread across a bunch of different sources and lock those sources out so players are forced to seek others to get it.

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

We gotta remember: temp and blade are in opposite spots. Templar is still pretty solid in many pve situations (it still really needs work though in my opinion)

Templar is the only class not included in a mid-maxed raid composition…

So no I wouldn’t say “Templar is still pretty solid in many pve situations” but if a skill were to be reworked to give them a group buff that was unique to Templar giving their tank spec a purpose, or if there was another support damage dealer set added to the game that ONLY worked best on Templar similarly to ZenKosh on Dragonknight, EC on Necromancer, or MK/Spaulder on Sorcerer… then Templar would be in a great spot.

Still not the most fun class to play, but at least as far as PvE was concerned, if either of those changes or additions were made, the class would have purpose, and representation in every group, regardless of how niché the fight is.

I sympathize with Nightblade damage dealers but the solution is so simple it’s painful, all it needs is Major Vulnerability on Mark Target and Lotus Fan’s AoE DoT needs a higher value.

Livvy · January 31

Well, that seals it.

No Templar changes in the Crown Store Showcase today.

I guess we really are getting nothing!

splitsand · January 31

Templar is in a good spot right now. Arguably the best PvE tank class with access to good major buffs/debuffs and a high scaling HP based shield, the best pve dps against stationary targets with no mechanics, and the best healer in the game. It legit is overpowered.

Even in PvP it is nuking people. I've seen potl and pl hit for UPWARDS of 4K!!!! Not too mention jabs being an op skill and beam being very good.

Sometimes I wonder if templar mains have ever played other classes (it could help you understand more). Nightblades, dks, and arcanists and sorcs have a much harder time than templar. Honestly, the only class that might be as strong as templar is necro.

Synozeer · January 31

splitsand wrote: »

Templar is in a good spot right now. Arguably the best PvE tank class with access to good major buffs/debuffs and a high scaling HP based shield, the best pve dps against stationary targets with no mechanics, and the best healer in the game. It legit is overpowered.

Even in PvP it is nuking people. I've seen potl and pl hit for UPWARDS of 4K!!!! Not too mention jabs being an op skill and beam being very good.

Sometimes I wonder if templar mains have ever played other classes (it could help you understand more). Nightblades, dks, and arcanists and sorcs have a much harder time than templar. Honestly, the only class that might be as strong as templar is necro.

2/10

boi_anachronism_ · January 31

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

We gotta remember: temp and blade are in opposite spots. Templar is still pretty solid in many pve situations (it still really needs work though in my opinion)

Templar is the only class not included in a mid-maxed raid composition…

So no I wouldn’t say “Templar is still pretty solid in many pve situations” but if a skill were to be reworked to give them a group buff that was unique to Templar giving their tank spec a purpose, or if there was another support damage dealer set added to the game that ONLY worked best on Templar similarly to ZenKosh on Dragonknight, EC on Necromancer, or MK/Spaulder on Sorcerer… then Templar would be in a great spot.

Still not the most fun class to play, but at least as far as PvE was concerned, if either of those changes or additions were made, the class would have purpose, and representation in every group, regardless of how niché the fight is.

I sympathize with Nightblade damage dealers but the solution is so simple it’s painful, all it needs is Major Vulnerability on Mark Target and Lotus Fan’s AoE DoT needs a higher value.

Yeah if by min max you mean the 20 odd score pushing teams then sure but factually they still see plenty of play in high level teams. Im on five different teams doing hms/trifectas. Every single team has a plar. Not one has a blade. Thats not really a good metric. Are they the best? Definitely not. Are they still effective. Yes. Are they more effective then a blade in almost all 12 man. 100%. If we are gonna talk tanks though they are basically the bottom of the bin. Cant even begin to recall the last time i did an hm trial with a templar tank.