Crafting Surveys QOL Improvement -> Stack Harvesting

mctaff

Problem:
Crafting Surveys, in and of themselves, are a good reward.
However, giving a reward that is tedious to reap the benefits of for a chore that is tedious to begin with is less than appealing.

Not everyone has a great deal of time and can punch out a few writs, and still have time to go traipsing across several zones to fetch the reward. So they stack (which is good) but you can only retrieve one at a time (which is bad). ESO after all is about being an MMO, not a solo collecting experience.
To combat this, the player must collect the six nodes of the survey, then run/ride away outside of draw distance for an arbitrary time, then return for the six nodes again and get the next Survey from their stack of them. As many of us like to do lots of writs, and might only get an extended play time period on, say, a weekend to collect them, this means that quite a lot of them can end up stacking, and there is a lot of wasted time looping around away from the location and back and it's frustrating and boring. Given that getting them as they are rewarded for the writs is also time consuming beyond reason (load times, zone changes, riding several miles), the stacking them up is the most efficient but also bothersome.

Solution:
Allow 'stacks' of Surveys to be harvested at one time.

Mechanism would be as follows...

1. Player has x number of a survey.
2. When they approach the survey, game will check to see if there are any existing incomplete surveys for this location already in the inventory of the character.
3. If yes, then they would complete that survey by taking all nodes.
4. If no, when they harvest the first node, the game checks to see if there are more than one (i.e. a stack) of that survey.
5. If yes, then it will create a "Bulk <type> Surveys: <zone> [x]" and with x as the value of how many were stacked, and award that item to the player along with the first node resources (as described next) and consume the stack of relevant crafting surveys.
6. For the actual harvest resource reward, the game would apply all relevant buffs for increased harvest time, harvest quantity and chances for additional material or zone drops, multiplied by the number of stacks.
7. If the player fails to retrieve all of the nodes, the Bulk Survey remains in the player inventory until the last node is consumed, no matter how long the player takes to return to it.
8. If a player has an unfinished normal Survey and an unfinished Bulk survey, then the normal Survey would take precedence.
9. Side note - Bulk surveys could be Character Bound.
10. Side note - Incomplete Crafting surveys could be labelled as incomplete to ensure players understand that they are incomplete.

In addition: for alchemy surveys, each node would need to be an alchemy bag, not an actual plant, as that would give an unfair advantage given the way that Alchemy ingredient surveys can currently be 'gamed' to skew the randomised plants to specific target plants.

Benefits:

• This would favour the players who do a lot of writs. I do not see a problem with people retrieving large amounts of a material at a time from an economic perspective; the amount of material to be gained is still the same but it is just more user friendly.
• Initially a lot of people might go and do eleventy-twelvedred that they have laying around which could bring prices down in the short term, but people will get used to letting them stack up a little, then getting a bunch - and that will self-settle reasonably quickly and prices will return to normality.
• Having a Bulk Survey issued to the player as a reward prevents any crashes, outages or service interruptions from causing the player to lose the rest of what had not been harvested yet.

This will save us a lot of time and be a big QOL improvement. Please consider this.

IsharaMeradin

Instead of doing all those calculations at harvest time, why not treat surveys similar to some fragments? We could use one for the normal amount, or we can wait till we have 10 and combine them into a "bulk survey" which would yield the higher amount.

joergino

Just multiply the yield by the number of surveys at the location in question and harvest them all at once.
I have been asking for this for years.

jad11mumbler

I disagree, as someone who does too many writs and surveys.


You should have to work for the reward surveys give, which are very plentiful.

Surveys and Writs are already OP as they are, for very little work with writs.
If you could bulk stack 200 surveys at once...

It's just too over powered.

Doing 10K surveys recently took weeks, but I'd prefer it that way.

LunaFlora

yea that would be awesome

Deserrick

In the meantime, you can avoid having to ride away by teleporting to an unowned house from the collections menu.

Araneae6537

No, I don’t want “alchemy bags” — if I want to spend the extra time to make sure one of the plants I want is there, that’s my choice. I think the surveys are fine the way they are. If you do writs on so many alts that you have stacks of them, that’s on you and you should have to put in the time to collect all the rewards.

Drammanoth

No multiple stacks, and that is to the benefit of people with no ESO+

Tandor

Don't hoard surveys, and if you have only limited time then don't do so many writs.

Those are the only changes needed and won't slow down the servers.

TaSheen

Tandor wrote: »

Don't hoard surveys, and if you have only limited time then don't do so many writs.

Those are the only changes needed and won't slow down the servers.

This.

Though I do hoard them now, because I want always to have them for endeavors. Still I don't at all mind doing them, and I've never bothered to do multiples; I'll do whatever one's on endeavors and save dupes for another time. If I run out of something, I'll do one and save the rest for later.

They're fun, and get characters out of town for a while; after doing a survey or so, I'll usually go explore some corner I've not had that character in as yet.

tincanman

Once, in days of yore, there were threads aplenty just like this one with well-intentioned players suggesting their ideas for improvements. Then it was maps: maps are irrelevant, maps are useless, maps can't be stacked (oh, yes) maps are pointless....maps need to be improved...

So the devs (no fault to them) took the notion that players wanted maps changed and applied THEIR vision to them and, since that time, we have seen motif grinding raised to levels undreamed of as leads were locked behind maps. And maps are still not stackable.

The current survey system may be somewhat grindy but I have no doubt that ANY change inflicted on us would be a NIGHTMARE and light-years away from what we hope, expect or can imagine.

So, no thanks.

Toxic_Hemlock

I would actually just prefer they add a survey assistant into the store to do them for me. Even @ 5k crowns it would be worth it to me provided they could do multiple surveys a day.

But then again I'm lazy and have hundreds (thousands?) of them clogging up my bank I will most likely never do.

Billium813

mctaff wrote: »

Problem:
Crafting Surveys, in and of themselves, are a good reward.
However, giving a reward that is tedious to reap the benefits of for a chore that is tedious to begin with is less than appealing.

Not everyone has a great deal of time and can punch out a few writs, and still have time to go traipsing across several zones to fetch the reward.

Solution:
Allow 'stacks' of Surveys to be harvested at one time.


This will save us a lot of time and be a big QOL improvement.

> have time to go traipsing across several zones to fetch the reward

This is really a subjective topic. Personally, I find the time it takes to be a negligible. We are in agreement that Surveys are a nice reward, but I think you're exaggerating how time consuming they are to collect...However, I'm also on PC with addons that tell me where to go and I have all known wayshrines... *shrug*

That being said, I wouldn't mind this QoL improvement. I can't really see any issues with them adding it. Bank space is already at a premium for most players I think, so if players want to horde Surveys, then more power to them.

However, personally, I would rather see ZOS add saved Survey/Treasure map locations first. Sure, I have an addon, but I see no reason the game can't do this natively and it's just another addon I have to keep updating. It makes sense to me that once I visit a Survey/Treasure Map location once that my player would note that location for future reference.

Billium813

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

I would actually just prefer they add a survey assistant into the store to do them for me. Even @ 5k crowns it would be worth it to me provided they could do multiple surveys a day.

But then again I'm lazy and have hundreds (thousands?) of them clogging up my bank I will most likely never do.

Hard "no". We shouldn't have Assistants that do anything for the player (harvest, loot). I don't think the vast majority of players want this game to become one of those terrible, eastern MMOs that have "auto" features and the game plays itself. I rate this suggestion a "hold space bar"/10

A better suggestion may be something like a "Librarian" Assistant that could HOLD treasure maps, motifs, surveys, recipes. Or maybe a special container furnishing that allows players to actually use bookcases and scroll racks in their houses to store these items... THAT would be awesome.

Tandor

tincanman wrote: »

The current survey system may be somewhat grindy but I have no doubt that ANY change inflicted on us would be a NIGHTMARE and light-years away from what we hope, expect or can imagine.

Tokens for stacking 5 surveys at 2,000 Crowns, anyone ?

Toxic_Hemlock

Billium813 wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

I would actually just prefer they add a survey assistant into the store to do them for me. Even @ 5k crowns it would be worth it to me provided they could do multiple surveys a day.

But then again I'm lazy and have hundreds (thousands?) of them clogging up my bank I will most likely never do.

Hard "no". We shouldn't have Assistants that do anything for the player (harvest, loot). I don't think the vast majority of players want this game to become one of those terrible, eastern MMOs that have "auto" features and the game plays itself. I rate this suggestion a "hold space bar"/10

A better suggestion may be something like a "Librarian" Assistant that could HOLD treasure maps, motifs, surveys, recipes. Or maybe a special container furnishing that allows players to actually use bookcases and scroll racks in their houses to store these items... THAT would be awesome.

Thing is I don't need them "held" I have multiple chests and bank space for that, I need them done. No matter though, not all suggestions will suit everyone and you are free to not buy it. As for me I would scoop it up in a hot second.

schorse

Just make them tradeable. I would be more than happy to sell them for a little lower than material gain.

mctaff

Tandor wrote: »

Don't hoard surveys, and if you have only limited time then don't do so many writs.

Those are the only changes needed and won't slow down the servers.

I do not see how this would have any significant impact on the servers. There is no calculation involved other than a multiplication and a reward then given.

mctaff

tincanman wrote: »

Once, in days of yore, there were threads aplenty just like this one with well-intentioned players suggesting their ideas for improvements. Then it was maps: maps are irrelevant, maps are useless, maps can't be stacked (oh, yes) maps are pointless....maps need to be improved...

So the devs (no fault to them) took the notion that players wanted maps changed and applied THEIR vision to them and, since that time, we have seen motif grinding raised to levels undreamed of as leads were locked behind maps. And maps are still not stackable.

The current survey system may be somewhat grindy but I have no doubt that ANY change inflicted on us would be a NIGHTMARE and light-years away from what we hope, expect or can imagine.

So, no thanks.

Stated very clearly what the solution should be. If the devs decide to implement something worse, the players will disagree and at some point they will either listen or come to terms with bad decisions causing player loss and income impact. We saw the unpopular opinion around a year and some ago have a big effect, and one would think the lesson would be learned then that they can't allow players to think their solution to any problem would make the game worse. SO they have to make it halfway decent.

mctaff

jad11mumbler wrote: »

I disagree, as someone who does too many writs and surveys.


You should have to work for the reward surveys give, which are very plentiful.

Surveys and Writs are already OP as they are, for very little work with writs.
If you could bulk stack 200 surveys at once...

It's just too over powered.

Doing 10K surveys recently took weeks, but I'd prefer it that way.

The solution isn't overpowered. It simply speeds up a clunky process that would benefit most players so they can get on with interacting with other players, doing content and ultimately spending more time enjoying the game (translating to a positive outlook on the game, and either bringing more players in or staying longer and spending money).

What significant advantage does it give any specific player over another?
In the end, if you get them as you earn them, then you still get the exact same reward. It does not create any advantage other than time recovered for stacking a bunch first instead of retrieving them individually.

mctaff

joergino wrote: »

Just multiply the yield by the number of surveys at the location in question and harvest them all at once.
I have been asking for this for years.

See this part

mctaff wrote: »

Having a Bulk Survey issued to the player as a reward prevents any crashes, outages or service interruptions from causing the player to lose the rest of what had not been harvested yet.

This is the main reason why my offered solution differs from something simple. Imagine getting one node of your stack of <insert large number here> and then your internet goes out.... because the survey is consumed on the first node, then the remaining five would be lost as it would count as being completed.

tincanman

mctaff wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

Once, in days of yore, there were threads aplenty just like this one with well-intentioned players suggesting their ideas for improvements. Then it was maps: maps are irrelevant, maps are useless, maps can't be stacked (oh, yes) maps are pointless....maps need to be improved...

So the devs (no fault to them) took the notion that players wanted maps changed and applied THEIR vision to them and, since that time, we have seen motif grinding raised to levels undreamed of as leads were locked behind maps. And maps are still not stackable.

The current survey system may be somewhat grindy but I have no doubt that ANY change inflicted on us would be a NIGHTMARE and light-years away from what we hope, expect or can imagine.

So, no thanks.

Stated very clearly what the solution should be. If the devs decide to implement something worse, the players will disagree and at some point they will either listen or come to terms with bad decisions causing player loss and income impact. We saw the unpopular opinion around a year and some ago have a big effect, and one would think the lesson would be learned then that they can't allow players to think their solution to any problem would make the game worse. SO they have to make it halfway decent.

It doesn't work that way, unfortunately.

They[devs] might pick up that players want some aspect of the game changed but they are under NO obligation whatsoever to follow whatever 'solutions' or ideas players supply. And it is self-evident beyond the example I have given that they work in exactly their own way. Players wanted maps changed so the devs changed them but pretty much most players do NOT like that implementation of having motifs locked behind nested rng fronted by maps. For years. Without change. And the main thing repeatedly asked for (map stacking) was never implemented. And that's just one example...

Just be very careful what you ask for because, if picked up or flagged internally, any solution provided by the devs will almost certainly NOT be what you have or are asking for, however much detail you provide.

So, again - no thanks.

Tandor

Sometimes an OP has to recognise that something he/she thinks will benefit most players isn't as popular as he/she thought it would be. This idea has been touted many times but has never really gained any traction with the other commenters.

tmbrinks

Deserrick wrote: »

In the meantime, you can avoid having to ride away by teleporting to an unowned house from the collections menu.

I love when people do this when I'm collecting surveys.... and I collect 4 in the time it takes them to do so by riding away.

tmbrinks

mctaff wrote: »

jad11mumbler wrote: »

I disagree, as someone who does too many writs and surveys.


You should have to work for the reward surveys give, which are very plentiful.

Surveys and Writs are already OP as they are, for very little work with writs.
If you could bulk stack 200 surveys at once...

It's just too over powered.

Doing 10K surveys recently took weeks, but I'd prefer it that way.

The solution isn't overpowered. It simply speeds up a clunky process that would benefit most players so they can get on with interacting with other players, doing content and ultimately spending more time enjoying the game (translating to a positive outlook on the game, and either bringing more players in or staying longer and spending money).

What significant advantage does it give any specific player over another?
In the end, if you get them as you earn them, then you still get the exact same reward. It does not create any advantage other than time recovered for stacking a bunch first instead of retrieving them individually.

You said the advantage... time.

They are already the most efficient way of gathering resources, by a long shot.

You don't tend to make the most efficient thing more efficient.

To add: Surveys were designed initially to be picked up immediately (as they are a rumor about a secret cache of materials that would be time-limited). They were not initially designed to be "stacked" to stacks of 20/30/100. They already acquiesced to allow them to stack, and players' behavior changed. Players allowing them to stack to unwieldy numbers is entirely a player behavior problem, not a game design problem. (Now, I love stacking them to 20/30/100, because it's more time-efficient... and I don't need the materials right away).

The_Boggart

For multiple surveys or chesta I normally port into cyrodil then exit via the door

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's related to crafting.

Thank you for your understanding

Treeshka

schorse wrote: »

Just make them tradeable. I would be more than happy to sell them for a little lower than material gain.

I think the same they should not be bound and allowed to trade. Most players will pay double or thrice price for Jewelry Surveys as there is a lead behind it.

Some Mythic items also drops from certain node types from certain zones and survey nodes do count for these. So some survey reports will be much more valuable than it should, if normal material costs are accounted in price calculation.

Araneae6537

Treeshka wrote: »

schorse wrote: »

Just make them tradeable. I would be more than happy to sell them for a little lower than material gain.

I think the same they should not be bound and allowed to trade. Most players will pay double or thrice price for Jewelry Surveys as there is a lead behind it.

Some Mythic items also drops from certain node types from certain zones and survey nodes do count for these. So some survey reports will be much more valuable than it should, if normal material costs are accounted in price calculation.

Is there a chance for leads or mythic items from survey nodes though? I would have assumed not since, unlike regular nodes, there is no chance of furnishing materials.

tmbrinks

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

schorse wrote: »

Just make them tradeable. I would be more than happy to sell them for a little lower than material gain.

I think the same they should not be bound and allowed to trade. Most players will pay double or thrice price for Jewelry Surveys as there is a lead behind it.

Some Mythic items also drops from certain node types from certain zones and survey nodes do count for these. So some survey reports will be much more valuable than it should, if normal material costs are accounted in price calculation.

Is there a chance for leads or mythic items from survey nodes though? I would have assumed not since, unlike regular nodes, there is no chance of furnishing materials.

Yes, some even are exclusive to surveys themselves.

LMarshall910

I think once you have discovered a survey location once if it gave you a location marker on the map / compass that can be toggled on/off like Skyshards..


Additionally, if you are an ESO+ member they take up no inventory space, if you could have a "Compendium" that acts like a stickerbook that you can tick off eidetic memory, lorebooks, recipes, skyshards, collected surveys and treasure maps all in one place that would be the best solution in my opinion.

And better yet, an app where you can look at your progress with the same information as well as achievement progress, like you can do with Red Dead Redemption. (But I'm getting ahead of myself there)