Make Random Veteran Dungeon give 3x better Exp/Gold/Rewards

Waseem

Make Random Veteran Dungeon give 3x better Exp/Gold/Rewards in order to encourage more participation

Why do random veteran when you can do random normal for much less time and effort

Æxiled

Yes

Never understood that…

Braffin

Yes

A very much needed change for keeping both queues healthy.

Rnd queue would probably see much less speedrunners and fake roles.

As for rvd: I never understood why they decided, that more effort doesn't deserve more reward.

spartaxoxo

No

No. Ever since they made it the way it is, the vet queue has been way better about being populated with people who can actually do the content, rather than people looking for carries for bonus rewards. The types of players that aren't in the vet queue anyway are largely players you wouldn't want to run into a vet run anyway. It takes longer but it's a much more enjoyable queue as is.

Granted you still run into fakes that make the run less fun anyway, they were greater in the number back in the day. Because everyone wanted monster helms.

derkaiserliche

Yes

Yea a better reward at least. Just the better quality loot is not worth it at all anymore.

boi_anachronism_

No

I fear this would rapidly devolve into there being an overwhelming majority of players in the ques who are unprepared for that content. I dont mind helping folks through stuff every now and again if they are kinda on the cusp and trying to break in to it. Heck i walked 2 guys through vet scriveners the other night, one being the tank. I ran ALL the mechs for the first boss, books and everything including the green tank aoe one. After the fight i gave them a few tips and explained some of the mechs and went on to briefly go over everything before each boss.

The other outcome is that many more players will abandon the dungeon immediately upon being slotted into something like vet coral arie which i already see plenty as is...

BXR_Lonestar

Yes

I agree the rewards aren't worth it to run veteran random dungeons. Maybe up transmutes to 25 (At least for DLC dungeons) and make it so more than the final boss drops weapons on vet and I would consider it. But here is the kicker: most people looking to do veteran dungeons will just want to get a group together before queing. Veteran dungeons (especially DLC dungeons) are too difficult to risk being stuck in with a fake tank. Mechanics are often too complex (again, for DLC dungeons) to expect a group of random people to either figure them out or to cooperate and work together to accomplish without experiencing setbacks and frustration. The best way to avoid these two issues is to just go with people you already know, meaning even if people do que for them, they're not in the open que, they're qued with a premade group.

Even with these improved rewards, it is so much easier to just jump on a high DPS character and go burn a bunch of random normals to get transmutes or farm a particular dungeon for drops. I think that is what Zos needs to consider if/when looking to improve activities/rewards. Not just "what would make this content more worthwhile to play" but also "what is the player giving up by participating in this activity." In the time it would take me to run a random vet dungeon with a group of randoms, I could probably run 3-6 normal dungeons on different characters, get 10 transmutes per, and I'd get several drops towards filling my set collections, making it less expensive to reconstruct what I want.

Dagoth_Rac

No

This just replaces a problem from Random Normal (overqualified players queuing as fake tanks/healers and rushing through to get rewards ASAP) with a new problem: underqualified players queuing vet in hopes that the other 3 players are good enough to carry them to a better reward.

AlterBlika

Yes

Also allowing us to go with incomplete groups would be nice

Amottica

No

Increasing the reward for a random vet dungeon over a normal random would push more people to do the vet random leading to an increase of inexperienced players joining the vet queue.

Is that really what we want?

In other words, Zenimax provided a well-thought-out and logical design.

EdjeSwift

No

Veteran Dungeons don't need a boost to "encourage" people to do them.

If you're doing a Veteran Dungeon you should be expected to know the mechanics and what you're getting into if you're queuing for it, which sadly a lot of players don't. Veteran dungeons have many reasons to run them, Undaunted Keys, Monster Sets, Achievements. The random is the same Vet or Normal, this is fine because people who want to run the random just for the rewards can run normal while people who choose to run vet are choosing to run it because they want to, not to chase some more rewards. As Amottica said, this is a well-thought-out and logical design, it doesn't need to be changed in the least.

i11ionward

Wouldn't it be better to double drop on set items? I would then go to vet dungeons to fill the sticker book faster. With the exception of monster sets and pledges, at the moment the rewards for going to vet dungeons don't match the effort, especially in DLC dungeons.

Necrotech_Master

ideally, yes i think it should give more reward for more difficulty

however, i think as everyone here who voted no has mentioned is that the queue would likely be inundated with tons of people trying to queue for vet because its more reward, and there would likely be more dungeon failures because people are not prepared for vet dlc dungeons

and also no, there should not be more reward for vet if you remove all dlc dungeons from the random queue lol

Braffin

Yes

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ideally, yes i think it should give more reward for more difficulty

however, i think as everyone here who voted no has mentioned is that the queue would likely be inundated with tons of people trying to queue for vet because its more reward, and there would likely be more dungeon failures because people are not prepared for vet dlc dungeons

and also no, there should not be more reward for vet if you remove all dlc dungeons from the random queue lol

Yeah, I also think the people opposing this suggestion made very good points. I probably would change my vote now, if that were possible.

Billium813

Yes

I voted "Yes", but to be clear, it's not about the Gold or Experience. It's WAY more on the "Rewards".

You have to ask the question: Why are players running dungeons in the first place?

On average, it's not for Gold or XP. ESO has 1000 different XP buff events and grinding methods, it isn't detrimental that dungeon XP specifically is buffed. Gold is totally subjective too and ZOS sees 1000 gold as "alot", so they aren't going to be able to get the amount to a level that will incentivize anyone...

The answer is: Undaunted Keys, Transmute Stones. Players run RND for Transmute Stones and Pledges for both Stones & Keys. Simple as that.

The problem is that ESO has two different economies: ESO Economy and Guild Economy. In magical ESO Economy, 1000 gold is expensive and purple mats are really valuable! This is ZOS's dream world. But Guild Economy is reality. 1000 gold is nothing and purple mats are pennies in Guild Economy.

The issue is that ZOS will always see Veteran dungeons as having tons of fringe benefit that should be incentivizing players to do that content. They can't see the game from the Guild Economy perspective where players have run this dungeon 10000 times, done all the achievements, don't care about the pittance of Gold or Purple mats, have collected all the sets and masks. ZOS sees 1 Key vs 2 Keys as HUGE! They see 10 Transmute Stones vs 4 as HUGE!

Bufffing Gold and XP isn't gonna do anything because they cant buff it to a degree that will incentivize the people that need to be incentivized. They need to buff "Rewards" for players that put more stock on those valuable parts of the content. They need to reduce the overhead for players that are on the fence and worry they will be paired with incompetent players too... but that's a discussion for another time...

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

Necrotech_Master

Billium813 wrote: »

I voted "Yes", but to be clear, it's not about the Gold or Experience. It's WAY more on the "Rewards".

You have to ask the question: Why are players running dungeons in the first place?

On average, it's not for Gold or XP. ESO has 1000 different XP buff events and grinding methods, it isn't detrimental that dungeon XP specifically is buffed. Gold is totally subjective too and ZOS sees 1000 gold as "alot", so they aren't going to be able to get the amount to a level that will incentivize anyone...

The answer is: Undaunted Keys, Transmute Stones. Players run RND for Transmute Stones and Pledges for both Stones & Keys. Simple as that.

The problem is that ESO has two different economies: ESO Economy and Guild Economy. In magical ESO Economy, 1000 gold is expensive and purple mats are really valuable! This is ZOS's dream world. But Guild Economy is reality. 1000 gold is nothing and purple mats are pennies in Guild Economy.

The issue is that ZOS will always see Veteran dungeons as having tons of fringe benefit that should be incentivizing players to do that content. They can't see the game from the Guild Economy perspective where players have run this dungeon 10000 times, done all the achievements, don't care about the pittance of Gold or Purple mats, have collected all the sets and masks. ZOS sees 1 Key vs 2 Keys as HUGE! They see 10 Transmute Stones vs 4 as HUGE!

Bufffing Gold and XP isn't gonna do anything because they cant buff it to a degree that will incentivize the people that need to be incentivized. They need to buff "Rewards" for players that put more stock on those valuable parts of the content. They need to reduce the overhead for players that are on the fence and worry they will be paired with incompetent players too... but that's a discussion for another time...

undaunted keys arent even that useful if you have most all of the monster stuff

no point in wasting them on gamble boxes without a curated option, think i still have 200 something keys sitting around lol

i would say the draw for random normals is 95% transmutes and 5% xp bonus

Billium813

Yes

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

I voted "Yes", but to be clear, it's not about the Gold or Experience. It's WAY more on the "Rewards".

You have to ask the question: Why are players running dungeons in the first place?

On average, it's not for Gold or XP. ESO has 1000 different XP buff events and grinding methods, it isn't detrimental that dungeon XP specifically is buffed. Gold is totally subjective too and ZOS sees 1000 gold as "alot", so they aren't going to be able to get the amount to a level that will incentivize anyone...

The answer is: Undaunted Keys, Transmute Stones. Players run RND for Transmute Stones and Pledges for both Stones & Keys. Simple as that.

The problem is that ESO has two different economies: ESO Economy and Guild Economy. In magical ESO Economy, 1000 gold is expensive and purple mats are really valuable! This is ZOS's dream world. But Guild Economy is reality. 1000 gold is nothing and purple mats are pennies in Guild Economy.

The issue is that ZOS will always see Veteran dungeons as having tons of fringe benefit that should be incentivizing players to do that content. They can't see the game from the Guild Economy perspective where players have run this dungeon 10000 times, done all the achievements, don't care about the pittance of Gold or Purple mats, have collected all the sets and masks. ZOS sees 1 Key vs 2 Keys as HUGE! They see 10 Transmute Stones vs 4 as HUGE!

Bufffing Gold and XP isn't gonna do anything because they cant buff it to a degree that will incentivize the people that need to be incentivized. They need to buff "Rewards" for players that put more stock on those valuable parts of the content. They need to reduce the overhead for players that are on the fence and worry they will be paired with incompetent players too... but that's a discussion for another time...

undaunted keys arent even that useful if you have most all of the monster stuff

no point in wasting them on gamble boxes without a curated option, think i still have 200 something keys sitting around lol

i would say the draw for random normals is 95% transmutes and 5% xp bonus

1) ESO definitely needs more things to spend Undaunted Keys on...
2) You're forgetting (or didn't know) about the Style pages that the Undaunted sell with Arms Packs and are available for purchase during the Undaunted Celebration. They cost 50 Keys each...

I'd say players primary reason for running dungeons are more: 60% Transmutes, 38% Keys, 2% XP. It's quite common for players to run HM non-dlc vet just for the extra key.

Necrotech_Master

Billium813 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

I voted "Yes", but to be clear, it's not about the Gold or Experience. It's WAY more on the "Rewards".

You have to ask the question: Why are players running dungeons in the first place?

On average, it's not for Gold or XP. ESO has 1000 different XP buff events and grinding methods, it isn't detrimental that dungeon XP specifically is buffed. Gold is totally subjective too and ZOS sees 1000 gold as "alot", so they aren't going to be able to get the amount to a level that will incentivize anyone...

The answer is: Undaunted Keys, Transmute Stones. Players run RND for Transmute Stones and Pledges for both Stones & Keys. Simple as that.

The problem is that ESO has two different economies: ESO Economy and Guild Economy. In magical ESO Economy, 1000 gold is expensive and purple mats are really valuable! This is ZOS's dream world. But Guild Economy is reality. 1000 gold is nothing and purple mats are pennies in Guild Economy.

The issue is that ZOS will always see Veteran dungeons as having tons of fringe benefit that should be incentivizing players to do that content. They can't see the game from the Guild Economy perspective where players have run this dungeon 10000 times, done all the achievements, don't care about the pittance of Gold or Purple mats, have collected all the sets and masks. ZOS sees 1 Key vs 2 Keys as HUGE! They see 10 Transmute Stones vs 4 as HUGE!

Bufffing Gold and XP isn't gonna do anything because they cant buff it to a degree that will incentivize the people that need to be incentivized. They need to buff "Rewards" for players that put more stock on those valuable parts of the content. They need to reduce the overhead for players that are on the fence and worry they will be paired with incompetent players too... but that's a discussion for another time...

undaunted keys arent even that useful if you have most all of the monster stuff

no point in wasting them on gamble boxes without a curated option, think i still have 200 something keys sitting around lol

i would say the draw for random normals is 95% transmutes and 5% xp bonus

1) ESO definitely needs more things to spend Undaunted Keys on...
2) You're forgetting (or didn't know) about the Style pages that the Undaunted sell with Arms Packs and are available for purchase during the Undaunted Celebration. They cost 50 Keys each...

I'd say players primary reason for running dungeons are more: 60% Transmutes, 38% Keys, 2% XP. It's quite common for players to run HM non-dlc vet just for the extra key.

you can buy those same style pages from the endless archive now from the rotational vendor, so not wasting 50 keys on that stuff lol

Billium813

Yes

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

I voted "Yes", but to be clear, it's not about the Gold or Experience. It's WAY more on the "Rewards".

You have to ask the question: Why are players running dungeons in the first place?

On average, it's not for Gold or XP. ESO has 1000 different XP buff events and grinding methods, it isn't detrimental that dungeon XP specifically is buffed. Gold is totally subjective too and ZOS sees 1000 gold as "alot", so they aren't going to be able to get the amount to a level that will incentivize anyone...

The answer is: Undaunted Keys, Transmute Stones. Players run RND for Transmute Stones and Pledges for both Stones & Keys. Simple as that.

The problem is that ESO has two different economies: ESO Economy and Guild Economy. In magical ESO Economy, 1000 gold is expensive and purple mats are really valuable! This is ZOS's dream world. But Guild Economy is reality. 1000 gold is nothing and purple mats are pennies in Guild Economy.

The issue is that ZOS will always see Veteran dungeons as having tons of fringe benefit that should be incentivizing players to do that content. They can't see the game from the Guild Economy perspective where players have run this dungeon 10000 times, done all the achievements, don't care about the pittance of Gold or Purple mats, have collected all the sets and masks. ZOS sees 1 Key vs 2 Keys as HUGE! They see 10 Transmute Stones vs 4 as HUGE!

Bufffing Gold and XP isn't gonna do anything because they cant buff it to a degree that will incentivize the people that need to be incentivized. They need to buff "Rewards" for players that put more stock on those valuable parts of the content. They need to reduce the overhead for players that are on the fence and worry they will be paired with incompetent players too... but that's a discussion for another time...

undaunted keys arent even that useful if you have most all of the monster stuff

no point in wasting them on gamble boxes without a curated option, think i still have 200 something keys sitting around lol

i would say the draw for random normals is 95% transmutes and 5% xp bonus

1) ESO definitely needs more things to spend Undaunted Keys on...
2) You're forgetting (or didn't know) about the Style pages that the Undaunted sell with Arms Packs and are available for purchase during the Undaunted Celebration. They cost 50 Keys each...

I'd say players primary reason for running dungeons are more: 60% Transmutes, 38% Keys, 2% XP. It's quite common for players to run HM non-dlc vet just for the extra key.

you can buy those same style pages from the endless archive now from the rotational vendor, so not wasting 50 keys on that stuff lol

> not wasting 50 keys
> i still have 200 something keys sitting around

Pick one. You can't think they are not valuable AND that spending them is a waste.

Necrotech_Master

Billium813 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

I voted "Yes", but to be clear, it's not about the Gold or Experience. It's WAY more on the "Rewards".

You have to ask the question: Why are players running dungeons in the first place?

On average, it's not for Gold or XP. ESO has 1000 different XP buff events and grinding methods, it isn't detrimental that dungeon XP specifically is buffed. Gold is totally subjective too and ZOS sees 1000 gold as "alot", so they aren't going to be able to get the amount to a level that will incentivize anyone...

The answer is: Undaunted Keys, Transmute Stones. Players run RND for Transmute Stones and Pledges for both Stones & Keys. Simple as that.

The problem is that ESO has two different economies: ESO Economy and Guild Economy. In magical ESO Economy, 1000 gold is expensive and purple mats are really valuable! This is ZOS's dream world. But Guild Economy is reality. 1000 gold is nothing and purple mats are pennies in Guild Economy.

The issue is that ZOS will always see Veteran dungeons as having tons of fringe benefit that should be incentivizing players to do that content. They can't see the game from the Guild Economy perspective where players have run this dungeon 10000 times, done all the achievements, don't care about the pittance of Gold or Purple mats, have collected all the sets and masks. ZOS sees 1 Key vs 2 Keys as HUGE! They see 10 Transmute Stones vs 4 as HUGE!

Bufffing Gold and XP isn't gonna do anything because they cant buff it to a degree that will incentivize the people that need to be incentivized. They need to buff "Rewards" for players that put more stock on those valuable parts of the content. They need to reduce the overhead for players that are on the fence and worry they will be paired with incompetent players too... but that's a discussion for another time...

undaunted keys arent even that useful if you have most all of the monster stuff

no point in wasting them on gamble boxes without a curated option, think i still have 200 something keys sitting around lol

i would say the draw for random normals is 95% transmutes and 5% xp bonus

1) ESO definitely needs more things to spend Undaunted Keys on...
2) You're forgetting (or didn't know) about the Style pages that the Undaunted sell with Arms Packs and are available for purchase during the Undaunted Celebration. They cost 50 Keys each...

I'd say players primary reason for running dungeons are more: 60% Transmutes, 38% Keys, 2% XP. It's quite common for players to run HM non-dlc vet just for the extra key.

you can buy those same style pages from the endless archive now from the rotational vendor, so not wasting 50 keys on that stuff lol

> not wasting 50 keys
> i still have 200 something keys sitting around

Pick one. You can't think they are not valuable AND that spending them is a waste.

compared to how much you earn, 50 keys spent on 1 item is far too much, when you can buy the same item from the archive for 15,000 archive fortunes (1 single arc 4 run)

on the other hand, its also a waste to spend the keys on uncurated monster shoulder boxes to try to fill in missing collection pieces because of RNG

so all of the available things that you can spend them on, are not worth spending them on

the only time i even spend keys now is when there is a new dungeon DLC, and i have 0 monster shoulders from a specific dungeon gear box, so ill spend just enough keys to get at least 1 monster shoulder of each set (usually buy 5 boxes because of RNG)

so at best im spending maybe 20-25 keys per dungeon DLC release

if there were curated monster shoulder boxes for 10 or even 20 keys, i would actually spend them on that, and possibly even start bothering to run pledges again