Flawed crown gifting requirements.

Blacknight841

I have seen a lot of people comment that they are not eligible for crown gifting so I was curious enough to log back in and check to see if I am able to gift or not.

No paying player should have to message customer service to get their gifting enabled. If the account is legit and it is already flagged against gifting then by definition the system used to determine who is eligible for gifting has already failed them.

For example my account is not eligible for gifting.
- account has been active since the beta
- playtime on characters exceed 200 days
- paying for ESO plus from before it was even called ESO plus.
- paying for the annual subscription so the payment went through 9 months ago.
- purchased multiple packs of crown crates even outside do the given crowns with the ESO subscription

It doesn’t matter how often I log on or not… if an account like this is not eligible for gifting then the system is flawed. Simple as that. The in game details on how to unlock gifting are met not once, not just recently, but constantly after year. Bottom line is if you actually payed for your crowns, and didn’t do something against the terms of service to circumvent the system to buy your crowns… you should be able to gift them. No exceptions or discriminations. If you meet the criteria, you should be able to gift. If there are hidden criteria’s for gifting, then the details on gifting are completely misleading.

There is a difference between catching someone that tries to manipulate the system and implementing a system that prevents honest players from enjoying the game.

Ultimately, this is a very “guilty until proven innocent” approach to gifting. As it stands, honest players are punished for something they haven’t done, and meeting the “criteria” for gifting doesn’t actually unlock gifting. This just seems like a rushed approach to an issue that has been evident in the game for a long time, and rather than actually fix the issue, the solution was to mitigate the risk at the cost of innocent players.

[edited for bashing]

Amottica

This is a non-issue from what I have read. It is merely that they reset something and those that never received the message are receiving it now.

The link below is Zenimax explaining how things work now. The link is pinned to makes sure it is available for anyone that cares to look. Clearly nothing is deceptive.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644559/crown-store-gifting-update-october-2023#latest

belial5221_ESO

The "innocent til proven guilty" way didn't work well,cause alot of people were still scamming players,and gold/crown sites were exploiting buying crowns super cheap from other countries,losing the company money.
Best things they can do are implement a mail COD system,and make it so crown prices are same everywhere.An example $15USD and convert it to other currencies equally,and not adjust for their economic situations,so would still cost you same(or more for conversion of currencies) no matter how you tried to buy it.

Blacknight841

Amottica wrote: »

This is a non-issue from what I have read. It is merely that they reset something and those that never received the message are receiving it now.

The link below is Zenimax explaining how things work now. The link is pinned to makes sure it is available for anyone that cares to look. Clearly nothing is deceptive.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644559/crown-store-gifting-update-october-2023#latest

It absolutely is an issue. If you read the last comments in that post, you will see that there are plenty of people (like myself), who did not meet the “hidden criteria” for crown gifting. Even that pinned post has a way to request a review of your account if you still cannot gift after it was reenabled on 10/11. This by definition means that if you currently do not have the ability to gift crowns then your account got flagged as ineligible, despite having met the criteria displayed in game. The system should be able to distinguish between a legit player and one that isn’t. There are 21m accounts on ESO, and if they devote 1000 employees to reviewing all accounts at 2 min per account… it would take over 4 months at 40 hours a week to complete the process. This is illogical, so there is some hidden criteria that is flagging legit long standing accounts as intelligible. This is no different than shadowbanning in Call of Duty. The burden of requesting the ability to gift should not be placed on legitimate paying players. Too me this just feels like a rushed fix to get the gifting up and running rather than an actual solution to the ongoing issue. The system didn’t need a patch, it needed an overhaul that included making crown transactions safer for the players.

Katheriah

You can create a ticket, I assume you will be approved then.

We don't know what auto flags it, for all we know you need auto recurring ESO+, to be a member of 5 guilds, have 20k refined mats in your inventory and 5 different flowers.

If you create a ticket and you would be denied, I think then it would be a problem because you can't use the currency you paid for as you wish while being a legit player.

Veryamedliel

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

Best things they can do are implement a mail COD system ,and make it so crown prices are same everywhere

Actually.. that's the worst possible system. Crown prices cannot and will never be the same all over the world. Surely there's no need to explain why that is. Anyone with a high school education can do the math on that one.

A secure COD system would have been implemented years ago if ZoS actually wanted to safely allow crowns for in-game currency trading. The fact that the game is this old and there's still no secure way to do so safely should say enough about ZoS's attitude towards the issue.

ForzaRammer

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

The "innocent til proven guilty" way didn't work well,cause alot of people were still scamming players,and gold/crown sites were exploiting buying crowns super cheap from other countries,losing the company money.
Best things they can do are implement a mail COD system,and make it so crown prices are same everywhere.An example $15USD and convert it to other currencies equally,and not adjust for their economic situations,so would still cost you same(or more for conversion of currencies) no matter how you tried to buy it.

Selling 0 marginal cost item at discount is definitely not less profit than not selling. Regional pricing exists is because selling at discount is more profitable than not selling at discount.

Buying identical products from different region is no different than driving across state to fill up gas. And I have no issues with getting rid of regional pricing.

Also actual scammers don’t pay zos, they just buy stolen credit card info and use those card, zos get charge backs.

Amottica

Katheriah wrote: »

You can create a ticket, I assume you will be approved then.

We don't know what auto flags it, for all we know you need auto recurring ESO+, to be a member of 5 guilds, have 20k refined mats in your inventory and 5 different flowers.

If you create a ticket and you would be denied, I think then it would be a problem because you can't use the currency you paid for as you wish while being a legit player.

This. If you are prevented from gifting then this person has the right idea of creating a ticket. Clearly it’s not on purpose and such error can happen when making big changes to a system. It is just a simple mistake they should be able to handle for you.

boi_anachronism_

Veryamedliel wrote: »

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

Best things they can do are implement a mail COD system ,and make it so crown prices are same everywhere

Actually.. that's the worst possible system. Crown prices cannot and will never be the same all over the world. Surely there's no need to explain why that is. Anyone with a high school education can do the math on that one.

A secure COD system would have been implemented years ago if ZoS actually wanted to safely allow crowns for in-game currency trading. The fact that the game is this old and there's still no secure way to do so safely should say enough about ZoS's attitude towards the issue.

Seriously. The cost of crowns in the states could be someones rent in another country and no this isnt an exaggeration. I saw a player who posted this exact thing with the exchange rates.

Blacknight841

Amottica wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

You can create a ticket, I assume you will be approved then.

We don't know what auto flags it, for all we know you need auto recurring ESO+, to be a member of 5 guilds, have 20k refined mats in your inventory and 5 different flowers.

If you create a ticket and you would be denied, I think then it would be a problem because you can't use the currency you paid for as you wish while being a legit player.

This. If you are prevented from gifting then this person has the right idea of creating a ticket. Clearly it’s not on purpose and such error can happen when making big changes to a system. It is just a simple mistake they should be able to handle for you.

It is not just the issue that the player has to create a ticket… it is the entire issue that the in game help description makes no mention of additional hidden requirements, nor does it direct the player in game to the forums so they can understand the issue on why they cannot gift crowns, and lastly it fails to explain how they can unlock gifting through a support ticket… This is just a lack of communication on the specifics of crown gifting and a rushed implementation of a fix. Ultimately there should be no need for a legit player to even have to go through support to unlock gifting in the first place. If the system is flagging legit accounts, it needs to be reevaluated.

darvaria

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Veryamedliel wrote: »

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

Best things they can do are implement a mail COD system ,and make it so crown prices are same everywhere

Actually.. that's the worst possible system. Crown prices cannot and will never be the same all over the world. Surely there's no need to explain why that is. Anyone with a high school education can do the math on that one.

A secure COD system would have been implemented years ago if ZoS actually wanted to safely allow crowns for in-game currency trading. The fact that the game is this old and there's still no secure way to do so safely should say enough about ZoS's attitude towards the issue.

Seriously. The cost of crowns in the states could be someones rent in another country and no this isnt an exaggeration. I saw a player who posted this exact thing with the exchange rates.

WHY wouldn't they be the exact same price? I place import orders 2-3 times a week from China. From 2 different sources. Both sources have a currency converter. My accounts are permanently set to US dollars. I'm not sure, which country they use to determine the currency exchange rate, but I've glanced down and see 30 plus countries and I've checked and THEY DO NOT GIVE A DIFFERENT RATE just because you happen to live in some place where the standard of living is not equal to other areas. THINK of the issues this would cause. Half the sellers on Amazon are importing from China. Imagine the price wars if someone used this and undercut every other seller on Amazon. All you would have to do, is get a freight forwarder from another country and work out shipping arrangement. And in virtual, there isn't even a shipping factor.

It is beyond reason, that crowns would be cheaper in any country. There should never have been any difference in "cost". You pick a currency and you stick with it. Doesn't have to be US dollars, could be Yen, any currency but you adjust accordingly. And that is what caused this problem. People trying to make RW money using ZOS"s intellectual property. Stealing is exactly what they were doing. I don't think any company would make adjustments based on the "cost of living index".

You think cost of living is the same in rural areas of the Southern US as it is in LA or NYC? It is not. So, since I live in what is literally classified as a "welfare" state (where there are more entitlements paid than the state contributes), should I get a "lower price"? If they want to adjust membership cost, that's one thing (I guess). But any difference in price of crowns, will just lead to abuse again. Crowns are a function of discretionary income. They are NOT a necessity.

SilverBride

Blacknight841 wrote: »

It doesn’t matter how often I log on or not…

...If there are hidden criteria’s for gifting, then the details on gifting are completely misleading.

Maybe it does matter how often someone logs on or not. We don't know all the criteria because they aren't revealing everything, which they stated in the pinned thread on this topic.

Paulytnz

This is the second time within the last 2 months where innocent players are getting labeled/punished as guilty of rule breaking. Or at least they get that impression.

I hope this is not a new trend for this game/company, if so - it won't end well is all I can say.

It's about time they look at GW2 and other games and see how such a system should be implemented, but no they want to keep this game in the dark ages for some reason.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's account related.

Thank you for your understanding

SilverBride

Paulytnz wrote: »

This is the second time within the last 2 months where innocent players are getting labeled/punished as guilty of rule breaking. Or at least they get that impression.

There is absolutely no indication that players that don't meet the criteria for crown gifting are considered guilty of anything. They just haven't met the requirements to unlock this. They also have the option to submit a ticket to request this be enabled on their account.

MidniteOwl1913

SilverBride wrote: »

Paulytnz wrote: »

This is the second time within the last 2 months where innocent players are getting labeled/punished as guilty of rule breaking. Or at least they get that impression.

There is absolutely no indication that players that don't meet the criteria for crown gifting are considered guilty of anything. They just haven't met the requirements to unlock this. They also have the option to submit a ticket to request this be enabled on their account.

Yes this is the rational response, but as one of the many players who was not allowed gifting, I find myself a little bit hurt and disappointed. Maybe not rational but feelings often aren't.

BTW I have never gifted anyone anything before. It's my daughter's thirtieth birthday coming up and I was going to gift her a little something from the crown store as a sort of birthday card.

SilverBride

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Paulytnz wrote: »

This is the second time within the last 2 months where innocent players are getting labeled/punished as guilty of rule breaking. Or at least they get that impression.

There is absolutely no indication that players that don't meet the criteria for crown gifting are considered guilty of anything. They just haven't met the requirements to unlock this. They also have the option to submit a ticket to request this be enabled on their account.

Yes this is the rational response, but as one of the many players who was not allowed gifting, I find myself a little bit hurt and disappointed. Maybe not rational but feelings often aren't.

BTW I have never gifted anyone anything before. It's my daughter's thirtieth birthday coming up and I was going to gift her a little something from the crown store as a sort of birthday card.

I hope it works out for you.

irswat

ForzaRammer wrote: »

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

The "innocent til proven guilty" way didn't work well,cause alot of people were still scamming players,and gold/crown sites were exploiting buying crowns super cheap from other countries,losing the company money.
Best things they can do are implement a mail COD system,and make it so crown prices are same everywhere.An example $15USD and convert it to other currencies equally,and not adjust for their economic situations,so would still cost you same(or more for conversion of currencies) no matter how you tried to buy it.

Selling 0 marginal cost item at discount is definitely not less profit than not selling. Regional pricing exists is because selling at discount is more profitable than not selling at discount.

Buying identical products from different region is no different than driving across state to fill up gas. And I have no issues with getting rid of regional pricing.

Also actual scammers don’t pay zos, they just buy stolen credit card info and use those card, zos get charge backs.

Hello friend

centime

I submitted a ticket, as I was pretty sure that I should be able to participate in crown gifting. This is what it says on the submission form, which can be accessed via the link Amottica posted above:

By selecting “Submit” you agree to the below:

- Your account must be in good standing (No Safety/ToS violations in the last six months).
- Your account must be 90+ days old at the time of the request.
- Account must show consistent game play activity and be active in an in-game ESO community.
- Please allow at least 7-10 days to process your request.

I've never had any violations of any kind, and though I've only been playing for a little over six months that is enough, I have signed in every day for hours except for two 1-week periods when I was away from my PC, and I have been a guild member since I started playing. So they *shouldn't* deny me, but who knows..?

Paulytnz

SilverBride wrote: »

Paulytnz wrote: »

This is the second time within the last 2 months where innocent players are getting labeled/punished as guilty of rule breaking. Or at least they get that impression.

There is absolutely no indication that players that don't meet the criteria for crown gifting are considered guilty of anything. They just haven't met the requirements to unlock this. They also have the option to submit a ticket to request this be enabled on their account.

It's all about perception you know.

If one day you have the ability to do something and then the next day that ability is taken away from you, then that can be considered a punishment to some.

Read my entire post next time please, in the very first paragraph I said: "Or at least they get that impression"

The last crown sale they had I held off spending my usual $120 (my currency) 21k Crown purchase over the drama of the account bans from that endeavor bug. I saw MANY friends in my guilds hit by that, their perceptions were they were labeled and then punished for being guilty of something they never did (on purpose).

Sure, they got their accounts/game back in the end, but did they get an apology for the loss of game days or the stress of being labeled as a "dirty cheater"? Nope, not one single apology anywhere, that should have been the least they got.

This feels like the same thing, when the next crown sale comes along in Dec, I doubt I will buy like I usually do, because of this second case/drama now.

Sure, I am just 1 person they are losing money from. But that is a perfect example of how "perception" can affect things.

Amottica

Blacknight841 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

You can create a ticket, I assume you will be approved then.

We don't know what auto flags it, for all we know you need auto recurring ESO+, to be a member of 5 guilds, have 20k refined mats in your inventory and 5 different flowers.

If you create a ticket and you would be denied, I think then it would be a problem because you can't use the currency you paid for as you wish while being a legit player.

This. If you are prevented from gifting then this person has the right idea of creating a ticket. Clearly it’s not on purpose and such error can happen when making big changes to a system. It is just a simple mistake they should be able to handle for you.

It is not just the issue that the player has to create a ticket… it is the entire issue that the in game help description makes no mention of additional hidden requirements, nor does it direct the player in game to the forums so they can understand the issue on why they cannot gift crowns, and lastly it fails to explain how they can unlock gifting through a support ticket… This is just a lack of communication on the specifics of crown gifting and a rushed implementation of a fix. Ultimately there should be no need for a legit player to even have to go through support to unlock gifting in the first place. If the system is flagging legit accounts, it needs to be reevaluated.

And the link I provided in my first post here explains exactly what is going on. It is also a very new change. It is great to provide constructive useful feedback. However, I expect most who are interested in gifting will find this a minor nuance in the early stages of the return of gifting.

Ryori729

Amottica wrote: »

And the link I provided in my first post here explains exactly what is going on. It is also a very new change. It is great to provide constructive useful feedback. However, I expect most who are interested in gifting will find this a minor nuance in the early stages of the return of gifting.

I wouldn’t say exactly as ZOS doesn’t say exactly. I have played for 4+ years, bought crowns, never been flagged that I know of, have had ESO+ Most of that 4+ plus years. Active near daily and have never sold a crown item for in game or out of game currency. I have only gifted a few times to myself on an alt account that also has eso plus for now.

So not a big deal to me personally, but seems like miss. They say there were people creating crowns somehow. That seemed to be the actual problem. I get shutting down gifting for a while, but this doesn’t seem like a solution to the actual problem. It looks like a new problem.

GooGa592

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

The "innocent til proven guilty" way didn't work well,cause alot of people were still scamming players,and gold/crown sites were exploiting buying crowns super cheap from other countries,losing the company money.
Best things they can do are implement a mail COD system,and make it so crown prices are same everywhere.An example $15USD and convert it to other currencies equally,and not adjust for their economic situations,so would still cost you same(or more for conversion of currencies) no matter how you tried to buy it.

ZOS creates the motivation for people to find ways around paying full price for crown store items by having crowns so ridiculously overpriced. Crowns should cost less than 25% of what they cost, then there wouldn't be anyone trying to abuse the system, and everyone could afford to buy crowns once in a while. In the long run ZOS would probably make more money too if they reduced the cost of crowns because so many more people would buy them.

Amottica

Ryori729 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

And the link I provided in my first post here explains exactly what is going on. It is also a very new change. It is great to provide constructive useful feedback. However, I expect most who are interested in gifting will find this a minor nuance in the early stages of the return of gifting.

I wouldn’t say exactly as ZOS doesn’t say exactly. I have played for 4+ years, bought crowns, never been flagged that I know of, have had ESO+ Most of that 4+ plus years. Active near daily and have never sold a crown item for in game or out of game currency. I have only gifted a few times to myself on an alt account that also has eso plus for now.

So not a big deal to me personally, but seems like miss. They say there were people creating crowns somehow. That seemed to be the actual problem. I get shutting down gifting for a while, but this doesn’t seem like a solution to the actual problem. It looks like a new problem.

The link I provided does explain very clearly what they are doing. That included that there will be changes on the fly without notice as they have to retain the ability to be nimble and adjust to new scams and exploits.

Also, the previous 4 years are not relevant to the new state of gifting.

SilverBride

GooGa592 wrote: »

ZOS creates the motivation for people to find ways around paying full price for crown store items by having crowns so ridiculously overpriced. Crowns should cost less than 25% of what they cost, then there wouldn't be anyone trying to abuse the system, and everyone could afford to buy crowns once in a while. In the long run ZOS would probably make more money too if they reduced the cost of crowns because so many more people would buy them.

This is not why this was happening and lowering crown prices will not stop it. This was a means of committing fraud by selling crowns that were never paid for in exchange for real life money. These people don't care how much the crowns cost as long as they profit from it.

Amottica

SilverBride wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

ZOS creates the motivation for people to find ways around paying full price for crown store items by having crowns so ridiculously overpriced. Crowns should cost less than 25% of what they cost, then there wouldn't be anyone trying to abuse the system, and everyone could afford to buy crowns once in a while. In the long run ZOS would probably make more money too if they reduced the cost of crowns because so many more people would buy them.

This is not why this was happening and lowering crown prices will not stop it. This was a means of committing fraud by selling crowns that were never paid for in exchange for real life money. These people don't care how much the crowns cost as long as they profit from it.

This is correct. Heck, we have seen exploits in-game where nothing costs real-world money. Anyone who has played MMORPGs for a while knows there are hackers and cheats and that is what this is all about. The crown price is irrelevent to the issue.

It is also a big assumption that Zenimax would make more if they lowered the price of crowns. After all, this is a company that recently sold for 7.5 Billion USD. They have people who are knowledgeable about such things. A company does not get to that point without having bright, educated, business people in the organization.

Katheriah

Nah, I'd buy 75% of the stuff they put in the crownstore with crowns if it had a normal price. I ain't paying 20 euro's for cosmetics that change my weapons or 100+ for an ingame house. Make it €2-4 and €10-20 and much more people would buy. I'd even gift crates to friends once in a while if they had normal prices.

The prices are insane. Even with discounted crowns.

Amottica

Katheriah wrote: »

Nah, I'd buy 75% of the stuff they put in the crownstore with crowns if it had a normal price. I ain't paying 20 euro's for cosmetics that change my weapons or 100+ for an ingame house. Make it €2-4 and €10-20 and much more people would buy. I'd even gift crates to friends once in a while if they had normal prices.

The prices are insane. Even with discounted crowns.

A normal price is subjective as we each have our own price points.

The market, however, determines if the price is good or not for the company. Clearly, other people feel the current pricing is just fine though it is wise to purchase crowns on sale.

So the market says the prices are not insane and sustainable.

Katheriah

You mean the market that just had a massive issue with buying crowns that were purchased through fraudolous means?

I'd say the market was giving a pretty clear message.

PossiblyK

So, I've bought plenty of crowns in the past, large amounts too. Sometimes to gift, sometimes for houses etc.
I applied for gifting to be enabled on my account a couple of days ago, and I've been told no, because I've had a terms of service violation.
Now, this violation is in regards to the names of some of my characters that I created years ago, that were reported by someone who has an issue with me (could go into detail but it's a long story).
The names in question were 'your buff ***' (which was a buff cro), 'can't tank for shirt' (so named because I'm a terrible tank) and 'cu-next-tuesday' (I have no excuse for this one).
But this was why I was turned down for gifting. Honestly, I feel it's completely unfair as the violation was nothing to do with crown gifting whatsoever, and has no impact on it, but yet I'm being penalised.

ProudMary

Amottica wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

Nah, I'd buy 75% of the stuff they put in the crownstore with crowns if it had a normal price. I ain't paying 20 euro's for cosmetics that change my weapons or 100+ for an ingame house. Make it €2-4 and €10-20 and much more people would buy. I'd even gift crates to friends once in a while if they had normal prices.

The prices are insane. Even with discounted crowns.

A normal price is subjective as we each have our own price points.

The market, however, determines if the price is good or not for the company. Clearly, other people feel the current pricing is just fine though it is wise to purchase crowns on sale.

So the market says the prices are not insane and sustainable.

ZOS is getting away with the prices, but that doesn't justify the cost for crowns. There are rich people who don't care and gambling addicts that will buy crowns instead of pay their mortgages. Just because ZOS is getting away with this level on monetization can not be considered a legitimate justification for the crazy prices for crowns. People on normal incomes simply can't afford to buy crowns at the current prices, even "on sale". Anyone else remember when the largest crown pack only cost $50 not on sale? I do. Plus, the prices are really bad for ZOS's image in many peoples opinion.