Feelings about forced group activities

CameraBeardThePirate

wazzz56 wrote: »

Did the definition of "forced" change? Seems like it gets thrown around a lot over some completely optional parts of the game....

This. I seriously don't understand what the fuss is about. Endeavors are optional content and only reward cosmetic items. They also have multiple choices - if you don't wanna group, do something else.

I just don't get how people could play an MMO and then get upset at the devs for having something that encourages grouping up.

alcoraptor

You can solo wayrest 2, although it's a bit of a pain.
You need to run parse food (i.e. without the health buff) at the start of the fight, keep HoTs down (or bring a companion healer), and then switch to a food with a health buff when she grabs you.
Once she releases you, heal up and switch back to parse food - rinse and repeat.
She does the grab mechanic every 40s, so you should only need to switch food 2 or 3 times.

The final damage tick does 100% of your health at the time she grabs you - so by switching to a health buff food and allowing your HoTs (or companion) to heal you, you should have more health than the tick - and you'll survive.

SilverBride

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I just don't get how people could play an MMO and then get upset at the devs for having something that encourages grouping up.

Players aren't upset that there is content for grouping, such as dungeons and trials and arenas. They are upset that endeavors that can easily be done solo are having grouping as a requirement.

Just like the one yesterday to do an endeavor while in a group. Players were grouping to turn in their daily writs to get this. How did this add anything new to endeavors or even get players interested in grouping? There was absolutely no benefit to it.

CameraBeardThePirate

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I just don't get how people could play an MMO and then get upset at the devs for having something that encourages grouping up.

Players aren't upset that there is content for grouping, such as dungeons and trials and arenas. They are upset that endeavors that can easily be done solo are having grouping as a requirement.

Just like the one yesterday to do an endeavor while in a group. Players were grouping to turn in their daily writs to get this. How did this add anything new to endeavors or even get players interested in grouping? There was absolutely no benefit to it.

It's still accomplishing the goal though - to increase grouping.

Sure, you might not stay in group, or even need to group to complete said objective in the first place, but the entire point is to get people to socialize and group up.

SilverBride

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's still accomplishing the goal though - to increase grouping.

Sure, you might not stay in group, or even need to group to complete said objective in the first place, but the entire point is to get people to socialize and group up.

But WHY?

Players that like to group do so for things like dungeons, trials, arenas and PvP, and don't just group up to do everything.

Players that like to play solo will continue to play solo and just get frustrated at being pushed towards a play style they do not enjoy. Rather than grouping and doing the endeavor they are more likely to just skip it, so what has been accomplished?

And WHY is grouping being pushed as the most important thing that players need to be encouraged to do whether they like it or not? WHY does anyone have to adapt their play style to what someone else thinks they should do?

sarahthes

Just be glad this isn't like other MMOs, where in order to complete the quests for content drops and main story you must group up to do a dungeon. In ESO all group activities are optional and don't block quest progression.

Elvenheart

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's still accomplishing the goal though - to increase grouping.

Sure, you might not stay in group, or even need to group to complete said objective in the first place, but the entire point is to get people to socialize and group up.

Rather than grouping and doing the endeavor they are more likely to just skip it, so what has been accomplished?

This. I’ve said this before in other threads, it really seems like the end goal of the new more restrictive endeavors is to get more people to skip more endeavors now.

Before today, my last purchase with seals was the Winterborn spriggan polymorph, and since then I’ve been saving seals and today I just bought the Winterborn wolf mount.

CameraBeardThePirate

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's still accomplishing the goal though - to increase grouping.

Sure, you might not stay in group, or even need to group to complete said objective in the first place, but the entire point is to get people to socialize and group up.

But WHY?

Players that like to group do so for things like dungeons, trials, arenas and PvP, and don't just group up to do everything.

Players that like to play solo will continue to play solo and just get frustrated at being pushed towards a play style they do not enjoy. Rather than grouping and doing the endeavor they are more likely to just skip it, so what has been accomplished?

And WHY is grouping being pushed as the most important thing that players need to be encouraged to do whether they like it or not? WHY does anyone have to adapt their play style to what someone else thinks they should do?

For the last time, you don't HAVE to adapt your playstyle. It's optional, and only 1 of many options available.

WHY are there crafting endeavors?

WHY are there trial endeavors?

WHY are there weapon kill endeavors?

You can ask the same question about any endeavor. The fact of the matter is that endeavors are spread across all content, including grouping. If you don't want to do it then don't do it.

Hoghorn

But WHY?

Players that like to group do so for things like dungeons, trials, arenas and PvP, and don't just group up to do everything.

Players that like to play solo will continue to play solo and just get frustrated at being pushed towards a play style they do not enjoy. Rather than grouping and doing the endeavor they are more likely to just skip it, so what has been accomplished?

And WHY is grouping being pushed as the most important thing that players need to be encouraged to do whether they like it or not? WHY does anyone have to adapt their play style to what someone else thinks they should do?[/quote]

i don't have any citations, but i believe it is a truism in mmos that the more social and connected their customers are to other players the longer their account stays active (and potentially spending $). i think requiring grouping for endeavours is one small, crude way zos is trying to get this game's solo players to form those connections.

SilverBride

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's still accomplishing the goal though - to increase grouping.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

For the last time, you don't HAVE to adapt your playstyle.

Encouraging solo players to group is pushing them to change their play style.

Lugaldu

Hoghorn wrote: »

i think requiring grouping for endeavours is one small, crude way zos is trying to get this game's solo players to form those connections.

That's exactly what it feels like, an intrusive attempt to get solo players to group up.

alcoraptor

SilverBride wrote: »

But WHY?

From the other side - why NOT? Where's the harm in encouraging grouping, especially given there were plenty of alternatives?
I met some of my best in-game friends during events that encouraged group events like trials and dungeons that I probably would not have done otherwise.

SilverBride wrote: »

And WHY is grouping being pushed as the most important thing that players need to be encouraged to do whether they like it or not? WHY does anyone have to adapt their play style to what someone else thinks they should do?

No-one is forcing anyone to do anything, or requiring that you adapt your play style?
There were at least 3 endeavours that you could do solo, or if you were really that against it you could ignore the endeavour entirely. I really don't understand the fuss here.

I understand that people sometimes want to play solo (I like soloing dungeons, for example) - but this notion that ZoS shouldn't even suggest grouping up is very bizarre to me.

With that particular endeavour, there will of course be people that grouped up just to get it, then disbanded the group - but I doubt they're the target audience here.
Extra rewards from grouping have actually been an incentive for me to group up and help people in the past - surely that's a good thing?

CameraBeardThePirate

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's still accomplishing the goal though - to increase grouping.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

For the last time, you don't HAVE to adapt your playstyle.

Encouraging solo players to group is pushing them to change their play style.

Encourage =/= forcing. You keep asking why players have to adapt their playstyle, and the answer is they don't.

SilverBride

alcoraptor wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

But WHY?

From the other side - why NOT? Where's the harm in encouraging grouping...

Who decided that grouping is the standard that all players should be encouraged to participate in, regardless of their personal preference?

Just like in real life, there are extroverts and introverts, and ZoS has done a very good job of providing something for all play styles. It's a step backward from play as we like to "encourage" solo players to play as others think they should.

svendf

sarahthes wrote: »

Just be glad this isn't like other MMOs, where in order to complete the quests for content drops and main story you must group up to do a dungeon. In ESO all group activities are optional and don't block quest progression.

You can´t realy compair Eso vs (say) 14, where you have to group during Main Quest Story line - including doing dungeons and your first 24 man raid.

In Eso you can get into alot of trouble running dungeons. Not that 14 is foolproof. That said it does have mechanics in place, which will to 95% guarantee a trouble free run.

If I go into a lvl30 dungeon on my Lvl 90 Redmage, I will be scaled to lvl 30 - back to basic kind of thing, and a even playing field.

I believe people in Eso are more careful, when grouping in Eso, simply because of things happen during those groupings.

It doesn´t mean it´s not the only factor. For me personally Im more open to group with people in 14, than Im in Eso.

CameraBeardThePirate

SilverBride wrote: »

alcoraptor wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

But WHY?

From the other side - why NOT? Where's the harm in encouraging grouping...

Who decided that grouping is the standard that all players should be encouraged to participate in, regardless of their personal preference?

Just like in real life, there are extroverts and introverts, and ZoS has done a very good job of providing something for all play styles. It's a step backward from play as we like to "encourage" solo players to play as others think they should.

It isn't the standard though??? The vast majority of endeavors are solo-friendly and yet people in this thread are acting like they aren't allowed to play the game without grouping up anymore.

alcoraptor

SilverBride wrote: »

Who decided that grouping is the standard that all players should be encouraged to participate in, regardless of their personal preference?

How is giving an option making it a standard?
By that same logic, when there's a crafting endeavour that's "encouraging" me to participate in crafting, regardless of my crafting preference.
Or one to collect telvar - that's "encouraging" me to participate in ICP regardless of my PvP preference.

SilverBride wrote: »

It's a step backward from play as we like to "encourage" solo players to play as others think they should.

It really isn't. If the endeavours were entirely group focussed then maybe, but they're not - there were plenty of alternatives that let you continue with your solo playstyle

BetweenMidgets

I've seen several people say in zone chat "will someone group with me for the endeavor?" and people volunteer to do so.

IMO that method seems pretty painless, and if no one responds, go to a zone that is likely more populated. I've seen in in Vvardenfell and Deshaan, where often people are afk doing auction house things. Seems like people respond quickly to join the groups.

I know not exactly what you're wanting, but it is a somewhat easy work around.

I_killed_Vivec

Hoghorn wrote: »

i think requiring grouping for endeavours is one small, crude way zos is trying to get this game's solo players to form those connections.

Or...

They are, under the guise of "adding more variety", actually discouraging players from doing endeavours.

Whatever they might say endeavours are for, we all know that it is to get round loot boxes, sorry crates. However, they also went on to say that endeavours would be things you do in any case... you earn without even trying!

Except that's not so true anymore - the grouping tasks are the thin end of the wedge compared to what was shown on the PTS. Instead of just "complete a dungeon" we get "complete a dungeon with a companion" and "complete dungeon x with a guild mate". More variety right?

But in reality more restrictions.

I don't believe for one moment that ZoS are trying to get people to group up, or join guilds, or play with companions (apart from buying the DLC of course). I think they want to wean people off the endeavours.

Let me explain... at the start, once I found out about endeavours, I had a compulsion to do them (and I suspect others feel the same way). I now have 20+K seals, and can't find anything worth spending them on. So I was already beginning to lose interest in endeavours. As I said, it had become a compulsion but letting go a little was a liberation. Now they mess with the endeavours and I just can't be bothered. They won't make me do something I don't want to do just for the seals, and I suspect that's the whole idea. They want people in the crown store buying crates!

But ZoS are playing a dangerous game. For me, and I'm sure many others, another thread that tied me to the game has been cut.

I've been playing since beta, and subscribing throughout since the game went live. This year was the first time I didn't buy the chapter... and I feel OK about that too.

Another thread has been cut...

SilverBride

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

I've seen several people say in zone chat "will someone group with me for the endeavor?" and people volunteer to do so.

I saw that yesterday and was very happy that someone replied that they were not going to do this endeavor just on principle. I also chose not to even though it would have been very easy to just ask a friend to group for it.

The mere fact that players are complaining about this shows that it is having a negative effect on many. My biggest issue with it is the push to group, even when it doesn't make sense.

This reminds me of when Craglorn was released and it was absolutely forced grouping. Even doing quests required a group and players left the game because of it. I also left and didn't come back until after One Tamriel. Anything that moves back in that forced grouping direction is a concern to me, no matter how small the push.

CameraBeardThePirate

SilverBride wrote: »

This reminds me of when Craglorn was released and it was absolutely forced grouping. Even doing quests required a group and players left the game because of it. I also left and didn't come back until after One Tamriel. Anything that moves back in that forced grouping direction is a concern to me, no matter how small the push.

What a false equivalency. Craglorn actually required grouping to do anything.

You're complaining about a single, optional endeavor presented alongside alternatives that don't require grouping.

Tandor

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I just don't get how people could play an MMO and then get upset at the devs for having something that encourages grouping up.

Players aren't upset that there is content for grouping, such as dungeons and trials and arenas. They are upset that endeavors that can easily be done solo are having grouping as a requirement.

Just like the one yesterday to do an endeavor while in a group. Players were grouping to turn in their daily writs to get this. How did this add anything new to endeavors or even get players interested in grouping? There was absolutely no benefit to it.

It's still accomplishing the goal though - to increase grouping.

Sure, you might not stay in group, or even need to group to complete said objective in the first place, but the entire point is to get people to socialize and group up.

Link please to where ZOS have said that was the motive behind these changes.

CameraBeardThePirate

Tandor wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I just don't get how people could play an MMO and then get upset at the devs for having something that encourages grouping up.

Players aren't upset that there is content for grouping, such as dungeons and trials and arenas. They are upset that endeavors that can easily be done solo are having grouping as a requirement.

Just like the one yesterday to do an endeavor while in a group. Players were grouping to turn in their daily writs to get this. How did this add anything new to endeavors or even get players interested in grouping? There was absolutely no benefit to it.

It's still accomplishing the goal though - to increase grouping.

Sure, you might not stay in group, or even need to group to complete said objective in the first place, but the entire point is to get people to socialize and group up.

Link please to where ZOS have said that was the motive behind these changes.

Sorry but the burden of proof is not on me.

This is an MMO. It's pretty clear that something encouraging you to group is intended to get you to play with others.

Tandor

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I just don't get how people could play an MMO and then get upset at the devs for having something that encourages grouping up.

Players aren't upset that there is content for grouping, such as dungeons and trials and arenas. They are upset that endeavors that can easily be done solo are having grouping as a requirement.

Just like the one yesterday to do an endeavor while in a group. Players were grouping to turn in their daily writs to get this. How did this add anything new to endeavors or even get players interested in grouping? There was absolutely no benefit to it.

It's still accomplishing the goal though - to increase grouping.

Sure, you might not stay in group, or even need to group to complete said objective in the first place, but the entire point is to get people to socialize and group up.

Link please to where ZOS have said that was the motive behind these changes.

Sorry but the burden of proof is not on me.

This is an MMO. It's pretty clear that something encouraging you to group is intended to get you to play with others.

It seems clearer to me that introducing new Endeavours that take existing ones and makes them more restrictive is intended to discourage people from doing Endeavours, especially given that rather than explain that they are designed to encourage different playstyles they are described as offering greater diversity.

rpa

I too have 20k+ endeavours and whatwasitcalled current crate as far as I can tell does not contain a single thing I would bother to get "free" by using some. (I did check which I never did before endeavours.)

SilverBride

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This is an MMO. It's pretty clear that something encouraging you to group is intended to get you to play with others.

I've yet to hear a good reason why grouping and playing with others should be encouraged. MMO means nothing more than multiple players are in the game world at the same time. It does not mean that only social people should be playing it or that all players should spend time interacting with others.

Those that enjoy grouping will naturally gravitate toward group activities and those that prefer a solo experience won't. Neither way is more right than the other and I am frankly disturbed that solo play is being presented as something that needs to be corrected.

SeaGtGruff

As much as I love solo play and generally avoid grouping, the main issue I have with this is not the requirement to be grouped for some activity, but rather the characterization that we're being "forced" to group. We have the freedom to choose whether to do something or not. No one hovers behind me while I'm playing the game, telling me which activities I must engage in, or that I must group with someone. If there's an endeavor that requires being grouped, I can choose whether or not to complete that particular endeavor, just as I currently choose whether or not to complete other endeavors based on how much I like or dislike the associated activities.

jaws343

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This is an MMO. It's pretty clear that something encouraging you to group is intended to get you to play with others.

I've yet to hear a good reason why grouping and playing with others should be encouraged. MMO means nothing more than multiple players are in the game world at the same time. It does not mean that only social people should be playing it or that all players should spend time interacting with others.

Those that enjoy grouping will naturally gravitate toward group activities and those that prefer a solo experience won't. Neither way is more right than the other and I am frankly disturbed that solo play is being presented as something that needs to be corrected.

Isn't that all a bit contradictory though. If "neither way is more right that the other" then why is it such a problem that one of those ways of playing the game have an endeavor suited for their preferred way to play? Especially when solo play has far and away more ways to complete endeavors.

SilverBride

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This is an MMO. It's pretty clear that something encouraging you to group is intended to get you to play with others.

I've yet to hear a good reason why grouping and playing with others should be encouraged. MMO means nothing more than multiple players are in the game world at the same time. It does not mean that only social people should be playing it or that all players should spend time interacting with others.

Those that enjoy grouping will naturally gravitate toward group activities and those that prefer a solo experience won't. Neither way is more right than the other and I am frankly disturbed that solo play is being presented as something that needs to be corrected.

Isn't that all a bit contradictory though. If "neither way is more right that the other" then why is it such a problem that one of those ways of playing the game have an endeavor suited for their preferred way to play? Especially when solo play has far and away more ways to complete endeavors.

It's been very one sided. I've never seen anyone say that solo play should be encouraged but "MMO" and "encourage playing with others" has been repeated multiple times.

How would players feel about an endeavor to solo a dungeon?

jaws343

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This is an MMO. It's pretty clear that something encouraging you to group is intended to get you to play with others.

I've yet to hear a good reason why grouping and playing with others should be encouraged. MMO means nothing more than multiple players are in the game world at the same time. It does not mean that only social people should be playing it or that all players should spend time interacting with others.

Those that enjoy grouping will naturally gravitate toward group activities and those that prefer a solo experience won't. Neither way is more right than the other and I am frankly disturbed that solo play is being presented as something that needs to be corrected.

Isn't that all a bit contradictory though. If "neither way is more right that the other" then why is it such a problem that one of those ways of playing the game have an endeavor suited for their preferred way to play? Especially when solo play has far and away more ways to complete endeavors.

It's been very one sided. I've never seen anyone say that solo play should be encouraged but "MMO" and "encourage playing with others" has been repeated multiple times.

How would players feel about an endeavor to solo a dungeon?

Most endeavors already are solo friendly though. So I don't quite get the problem.

And let's be real here, the reason you and everyone else who complains about these get push back is because you are the only people complaining about them (edited to clarify that my use of "you" here is a general use, meaning to apply to players who complain about group based endeavors [or content in general] and not specifically anyone in this post). Players who prefer grouping are not in the forums complaining that most endeavors cater to solo players.

The encouraging players thing is absolutely valid. Endeavors encourage players to do all sorts of things, like crafting, public dungeons, seeking out specific enemy types, Arenas, Trials, Dungeons, world bosses, harvesting, treasure hunting, eating food, drinking drinks, using momentos, using ultimates, killing enemies in specific ways, with specific resources, pvping, pvping in specific ways like dueling or bgs, completing quests.

The system in and of itself is meant to run the gamut of player activities. And yes, that include grouping with other players. But the majority are all solo focused. So, in effect, the game is also encouraging players to go do solo things.