Feelings about forced group activities

NoticeMeArkay

LunaFlora wrote: »

how do i solo malubeth in wayrest sewers 2?

Look three posts above your own.

CameraBeardThePirate

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Sorry, but grouping up in an MMO is absolutely part of normal gameplay. It's literally in the name.

Where is Grouping in the name of Massively Multiplayer Online?

You're joking right? How entitled do people have to be to not only argue against the fact that grouping is an inherent part of MMOs, but complain about being forced to group up for completely optional objectives?

I mean seriously? It's an MMO - MMOs as a genre revolve around grouping and teamwork.

Not to mention, there are other options for endeavors, and endeavors aren't even a required activity - they're for entirely cosmetic rewards. The entire endeavor system is designed to encourage players to play different content - that includes group content.

This is easily the most single-player-friendly MMO in existence. Do something else if you don't want to group - there's plenty of solo content in the game and the vast majority of group content can be completed solo with a half-decent build.

polaris86

No one has to say a word in a PUG dungeon group if they don't want to, the most you'll get is "hi" and "tyfg". Most PUGs can manage a normal dungeon, and afaik there's no lead locked behind vet.

I don't like the "with a guildmate" ones though. I can find a guildmate to group, but it's a hassle if everyone is busy.

SilverBride

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Sorry, but grouping up in an MMO is absolutely part of normal gameplay. It's literally in the name.

Where is Grouping in the name of Massively Multiplayer Online?

You're joking right? How entitled do people have to be to not only argue against the fact that grouping is an inherent part of MMOs, but complain about being forced to group up for completely optional objectives?

I mean seriously? It's an MMO - MMOs as a genre revolve around grouping and teamwork.

Not to mention, there are other options for endeavors, and endeavors aren't even a required activity - they're for entirely cosmetic rewards.

No I am not joking.

MMOs have group activities, such as dungeons, trials and arenas. But they also have many solo activities, such as questing and crafting and housing and trading and roleplaying.

What possible benefit is there to "Complete an endeavor while grouped"? All this does is add a restriction on an activity that doesn't normally require a group.

CameraBeardThePirate

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Sorry, but grouping up in an MMO is absolutely part of normal gameplay. It's literally in the name.

Where is Grouping in the name of Massively Multiplayer Online?

You're joking right? How entitled do people have to be to not only argue against the fact that grouping is an inherent part of MMOs, but complain about being forced to group up for completely optional objectives?

I mean seriously? It's an MMO - MMOs as a genre revolve around grouping and teamwork.

Not to mention, there are other options for endeavors, and endeavors aren't even a required activity - they're for entirely cosmetic rewards.

No I am not joking.

MMOs have group activities, such as dungeons, trials and arenas. But they also have many solo activities, such as questing and crafting and housing and trading and roleplaying.

What possible benefit is there to "Complete an endeavor while grouped"? All this does is add a restriction on an activity that doesn't normally require a group.

As I said, Endeavors are designed to encourage players to interact with different parts of the game - that includes grouping.

If you don't want to group, then don't. There's other options for endeavors.

Freilauftomate

Yes please make ESO a single player game and sell the servers, thank you.

SilverBride

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This is easily the most single-player-friendly MMO in existence.

That is what I LOVE about this game. I can play solo as much as I want and only group when I choose to.

TaSheen

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Sorry, but grouping up in an MMO is absolutely part of normal gameplay. It's literally in the name.

Where is Grouping in the name of Massively Multiplayer Online?

You're joking right? How entitled do people have to be to not only argue against the fact that grouping is an inherent part of MMOs, but complain about being forced to group up for completely optional objectives?

I mean seriously? It's an MMO - MMOs as a genre revolve around grouping and teamwork.

Not to mention, there are other options for endeavors, and endeavors aren't even a required activity - they're for entirely cosmetic rewards.

No I am not joking.

MMOs have group activities, such as dungeons, trials and arenas. But they also have many solo activities, such as questing and crafting and housing and trading and roleplaying.

What possible benefit is there to "Complete an endeavor while grouped"? All this does is add a restriction on an activity that doesn't normally require a group.

As I said, Endeavors are designed to encourage players to interact with different parts of the game - that includes grouping.

If you don't want to group, then don't. There's other options for endeavors.

Actually, endeavors were designed to circumvent microsoft's legal strictures against the crown store and crates.

rpa

Well today I grouped for endeavor to complete endeavour while grouped. The "group content" in question was turning in my writs which I would do any way but which does complete the 2 quests endeavor. Say cheeeese.

majulook

IMHO grouping to do endeavors is fine. If you do not want to then don't. After all it's just a game.

NoticeMeArkay

The seals for this Endeavor are locked behind a task that every single player, no matter the level or expertise, is capable of doing. Simply turning in crafting dailies or a zone daily, yes even the guild finder introductional quest while being in a group will count towards the endeavor.

The only thing stopping people from doing so, is to actively not wanting to group up.
And if you don't want to group up, that's fine. But then be ok with missing out on these easy-as-ever earnable seals.

TaSheen

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

The seals for this Endeavor are locked behind a task that every single player, no matter the level or expertise, is capable of doing. Simply turning in crafting dailies or a zone daily, yes even the guild finder introductional quest while being in a group will count towards the endeavor.

The only thing stopping people from doing so, is to actively not wanting to group up.
And if you don't want to group up, that's fine. But then be ok with missing out on these easy-as-ever earnable seals.

I don't have any problems with ignoring anything I don't want to do. Most days I don't "accomplish" 3 daily endeavors. Most weeks I don't do a weekly. The list of things I can't be bothered with is quite long....

NoticeMeArkay

TaSheen wrote: »

I don't have any problems with ignoring anything I don't want to do. Most days I don't "accomplish" 3 daily endeavors. Most weeks I don't do a weekly. The list of things I can't be bothered with is quite long....

And that's totally fine and an absolute healthy approach towards this. If my comment made it look like I was "calling you out" in some way, that wasn't my intend. I do apologize tho, if it looked like it.

SatanicSister

I really fail to see the problem here as those who do not want to group can easily choose to do the other 4 endeavors.

Because I never group, I just went with the tel var (handed in a daily I had done a while back) and mages guild daily (doing the public dungeon group event in the process). If I hadn't wanted to do tel var, then I could've done the antiquity instead. I think todays endeavors were easy and quick to do.

Lugaldu

I think that some people who write here that there is nothing easier than forming a group cannot imagine that there are people for whom such an activity is pure horror. There are enough reasons why it can be extremely difficult for a person to spontaneously interact with others. And the more such activities are incorporated into the game, the more pressure you feel, especially when at the same time certain items are hidden behind such context, like the example with the leads for furniture that you can't get any other way.

ZOS_Volpe

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Sarannah

Have to agree that these types of restrictions on endeavours are a problem(grouping, guilding, etc). But I also have a problem with the ToT matches only counting against players, like why??!

For some players these things aren't easy to do. As we aren't all in guilds, and we don't all have friendslists where players are always online, and we do not always play during the peak times where doing these things are easy, and we do not all have long daily playtimes. (not even talking about those with social issues)

Just remove those crazy restrictions.

Hoghorn

As I said, Endeavors are designed to encourage players to interact with different parts of the game - that includes grouping.

If you don't want to group, then don't. There's other options for endeavors.[/quote]

Actually, endeavors were designed to circumvent microsoft's legal strictures against the crown store and crates.[/quote]

the loot box workaround is how it started but imo the person you quote is correct, they are using it to encourage players to try different stuff in game. i hear wow has now iterated on this game's endeavours system with something called trading post which also pushes players to do easy, varied tasks for cosmetic rewards. i take that as a sign that endeavours are working for zos, if other mmos are copying the system.
i suspect they have data showing players do stretch themselves to get the seals and are now trying to use that to get more participation in more specific content they feel is neglected. the interesting thing to me in this new endeavours era is what content the company is pushing us toward. imo this is a little window into what they wish we would do more of organically. if endeavours aren't enough to get interest in content maybe they'll do less of that type in the future. apologies for attaching my speculations onto your simple comment.

TaSheen

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I don't have any problems with ignoring anything I don't want to do. Most days I don't "accomplish" 3 daily endeavors. Most weeks I don't do a weekly. The list of things I can't be bothered with is quite long....

And that's totally fine and an absolute healthy approach towards this. If my comment made it look like I was "calling you out" in some way, that wasn't my intend. I do apologize tho, if it looked like it.

No, it's okay. I didn't feel "targeted". I just like to put my own 2 cents in! (I'm kind of a mouthy broad!)

Hoghorn wrote: »

the loot box workaround is how it started but imo the person you quote is correct, they are using it to encourage players to try different stuff in game. i hear wow has now iterated on this game's endeavours system with something called trading post which also pushes players to do easy, varied tasks for cosmetic rewards. i take that as a sign that endeavours are working for zos, if other mmos are copying the system.

i suspect they have data showing players do stretch themselves to get the seals and are now trying to use that to get more participation in more specific content they feel is neglected. the interesting thing to me in this new endeavours era is what content the company is pushing us toward. imo this is a little window into what they wish we would do more of organically. if endeavours aren't enough to get interest in content maybe they'll do less of that type in the future. apologies for attaching my speculations onto your simple comment.

*shrug* You might be right. I'm not susceptible to that sort of manipulation myself.

evan302

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

As I said, Endeavors are designed to encourage players to interact with different parts of the game - that includes grouping.

But why does it have to include grouping?
We already have Endeavours for group activities, so why push grouping as if it's an activity in itself?
What's the point of having to be in a group if you can complete the Endeavour doing a solo task like handing in your writs? These new restrictions make no sense to me.
This just feels like a pushy parent trying to get their kid to go and talk to a bunch of strangers for no good reason.

thorwyn

But why does it have to include grouping?

Because grouping is one part of the game, so why not? Of all the possible requirements for an endeavour, this one is the least "pushy" one. If for some reason you categorically refuse to group, then this endeavour is not for you and that's it. Do another one. I don't get why people are making such a drama about ONE single requirement. It's like complaining about having to craft one piece of Julianos when there are so many other sets to craft.

My daily ESO routine consists of: a. crafting writs and b. trials.
I don't do overland, I'm not questing, I'm not PvPing, I'm not running dungeons anymore, I don't play ToT, I don't have companions, I don't duel. So each day, I'm looking at the 5 endeavours, pick the three that are fastest and just do them without creating drama about ZOS being pushy parents that demand me to run wayrest 1. Endeavours take about 5 minutes tops. Sometimes, I skip one if I really can't find something worth while. Still, I'm sitting on 20+ k seals of endeavour.

Amottica

Snamyap wrote: »

As long as it's possible to complete 3 endeavors solo, like today, I'm fine with it. But from ZOS's perspective it does make sense to do this as the main reason a lot of people keep playing a certain MMO is because of friends playing the same game. Encouraging social interaction in that regard is good for the longevity of the game. And I'm saying that as a (fellow?) hardcore introvert who plays alone 99% of the time.

Both points are accurate.

If one can complete the maximum number of dailies solo then there is no forced grouping.

Yet, it makes sense to toss in a group endeavor as one of the options as group play is part of an MMORPG.

However, for leads group requirements are a limited exposure area, unlike endeavors that we do each day. It makes sense to encourage activities in all areas of the game with items like this and it is common in many MMORPGs.

Araneae6537

I don’t mind these endeavors because there are still options, and if I don’t want to do any of them, I don’t worry about it.

But it is unpleasant to feel like something is being pushed on you, and that’s how I feel about ToT. Not the endeavor, that’s fine, another option, as it should be, but I don’t like the obnoxious barker and I really don’t like getting ToT rewards for unrelated activities and I really hope that furnishing leads aren’t put behind it (unless it’s ToT related like the houseguest and I think a game table).

Ardriel

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

So I went to the Crow's Wood public dungeon boss which is normally pretty popular for this type of event. Sure enough there was another player there waiting for the boss to spawn. I got close and asked with a /say: Wanna group for the endeavor?

Got ignored, boss spawned, killed boss, went and dug up a purple antiquity for my third endeavor. One more reason I prefer solo play and solo tasks.

In fairness, there is a pretty good list of endeavors my elf will not do like kiill innocents, BGs, trials, duels. And a pretty good list of endeavors she can do but can't be bothered/not worth the hassle like anything in Cyrodiil, pickpocketing. And even with her lists of won't do's, she is able to get 3/5 daily endeavors over 90% of the time.

I had exactly the same experience. Public dungeon, asked if anyone wants to join the group - ignored - invited players - declined.
It is a great idea from ZOS with the grouping, because you get one task for free. But if the players are too stupid or can't understand ... or simply ignore the chat.. what can you do?
Even in guild chat I need to write a couple of times until I see a response. Sometimes I really wonder what's going on with people...

Lugaldu

evan302 wrote: »

This just feels like a pushy parent trying to get their kid to go and talk to a bunch of strangers for no good reason.

Araneae6537 wrote: »

But it is unpleasant to feel like something is being pushed on you, and that’s how I feel about ToT. Not the endeavor, that’s fine, another option, as it should be, but I don’t like the obnoxious barker and I really don’t like getting ToT rewards for unrelated activities and I really hope that furnishing leads aren’t put behind it (unless it’s ToT related like the houseguest and I think a game table).

Exactly this, yes. ToT is another example of an activity that they try to push by any means possible, and Sorinne in particular, hanging around wayshrines and in the crafting area of Vulkhelwacht, babbling at you every time you pass by, really gets on my nerves. Even more than Stuga.

I mean, of course the devs want to make people aware of their creations, want people to play them. But there is a fine line between informing and annoyingly promoting.

sleepy_worm

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

As far as today's "Complete 1 Endeavor while Grouped," do the other members of rhe group need to be present? For instance, could you group with a friend, yet each be in different zones doing different things, and each earn the endeavor in a different way, such as one player doing the group event in a public dungeon and the other player excavating a purple or gold antiquity?

The other group members do not need to be in the same zone as you. They can also be offline.

liliub17_ESO

evan302 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

As I said, Endeavors are designed to encourage players to interact with different parts of the game - that includes grouping.

But why does it have to include grouping?
We already have Endeavours for group activities, so why push grouping as if it's an activity in itself?
What's the point of having to be in a group if you can complete the Endeavour doing a solo task like handing in your writs? These new restrictions make no sense to me.
This just feels like a pushy parent trying to get their kid to go and talk to a bunch of strangers for no good reason.

If I had to guess - and that's all I'm doing - I'd say the ideas pool ran dry when the devs sat down and said, "hey, what are some new endeavors we could put in the game to freshen things up a bit?".

Instead of us asking questions that we know likely will never be dev-answered, maybe we should come up with good, doable ideas for new endeavors.

Not a fan of "forced" grouping, myself, as I'm in the middle of a long multi-week 7-day a week work jaunt and barely have time to log in for the solo endeavors.

Tandor

If, and I don't believe it, the purpose of these new Endeavours is to encourage players to try different aspects of the game, why haven't ZOS introduced a fishing one? It's been suggested often enough.

CameraBeardThePirate

Tandor wrote: »

If, and I don't believe it, the purpose of these new Endeavours is to encourage players to try different aspects of the game, why haven't ZOS introduced a fishing one? It's been suggested often enough.

They introduce new endeavors every patch, just give it a bit.

There's also nothing to "believe". They've explicitly stated that they design endeavors to have players engage with all content.

wazzz56

Did the definition of "forced" change? Seems like it gets thrown around a lot over some completely optional parts of the game....