Feelings about forced group activities

Lugaldu

Yes, yes, I know, in an MMORPG you meet other players and can play together with them.
But it's obvious that more and more things are being integrated into the game that are intended to encourage or force group play - such as leads for specific furniture hidden behind group dungeons (I'll just say Shipbuilder's Drafting Table and Wayrest Sewers 2 for example).

And this is particularly true for the new Endeavors, which in fact do not offer more choices, but primarily include more restrictions. And today there is another Endeavor - form a group and complete an Endeavor as a group. Sure, you can "kill two birds with one stone" here, but as a player who mostly plays solo, I always feel like I'm back at school, where the teachers "encouraged" me to play with the other children, even if I would rather play alone.
This isn't meant to be a criticism, as different play styles are of course addressed in ESO, but this forced group play feels more and more like a pushy household goods salesman that you can't get rid of at the door.

NoticeMeArkay

You're not forced to run dungeons for leads with other people. If you prefer playing solo you always are free to adjust your skill bars and build for your choice of playstyle and run the dungeon alone or with a companion.
Both groups of players and solo players will have to prepare accordingly for dungeons, so you're simply met with the same task as any group apart from the fact that you won't benefit from a tank or healer will rely purely on your very own skills.
You also won't have to run a dungeon on veteran mode, so you can have a very relaxed and fun solo run at your own pace while even exploring everything you might have missed or bring a companion to shove some extra levels into their pockets.

Today's daily endevours offer 3 options for playing solo and 1 for playing in a group. Since you can only do 3 per day, you've got all the necessary options to reach the max amount of seals today.

You can finish 2 quests solo by doing crafting dailies.
You can dig up a violet or golden antiquity with out any additional player necessary.
The group events in all base game public dungeons can be done naked and alone.

Just give things a try, you'll see that it's far from impossible to do these things solo. I get my max amount of seals in daily and the daily endeavors take me 30 minutes max before I head to work.

Snamyap

As long as it's possible to complete 3 endeavors solo, like today, I'm fine with it. But from ZOS's perspective it does make sense to do this as the main reason a lot of people keep playing a certain MMO is because of friends playing the same game. Encouraging social interaction in that regard is good for the longevity of the game. And I'm saying that as a (fellow?) hardcore introvert who plays alone 99% of the time.

Snamyap

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

You're not forced to run dungeons for leads with other people. If you prefer playing solo you always are free to adjust your skill bars and build for your choice of playstyle and run the dungeon alone or with a companion.

Generally agree with you, but the dungeon the OP used as an example, wayrest sewers 2, is one that can not be soloed due to mechanics.

Lugaldu

Snamyap wrote: »

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

You're not forced to run dungeons for leads with other people. If you prefer playing solo you always are free to adjust your skill bars and build for your choice of playstyle and run the dungeon alone or with a companion.

Generally agree with you, but the dungeon the OP used as an example, wayrest sewers 2, is one that can not be soloed due to mechanics.

Exactly, that's a problem here. I've soloed Wayrest 1 for the music box lead probably 50 times, but it doesn't work with Wayrest 2.
The concept bothers me, when there are no alternative ways to get things like leads for furniture.

endgamesmug

You dont have to get sucked into the guild vortex, just make friends go duo some stuff or try it out might be suprised with yourself! 😀

NoticeMeArkay

Snamyap wrote: »

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

You're not forced to run dungeons for leads with other people. If you prefer playing solo you always are free to adjust your skill bars and build for your choice of playstyle and run the dungeon alone or with a companion.

Generally agree with you, but the dungeon the OP used as an example, wayrest sewers 2, is one that can not be soloed due to mechanics.

Ah, I forgot you can't cheese Malubeth anymore. I guess she doesn't concentrate the drain on companions either?

Tandor

It's possible that this is an attempt to encourage grouping, but it's also possible that it's an attempt to discourage doing Endeavours as they're having too big an impact on Crown Crate sales. That theory has been put forward many times here and on the PTS and no official denial or other explanation for these changes has been forthcoming beyond the initial "we're offering greater diversity of choice" claim which was immediately countered by "the changes provide greater restrictions, not greater diversity" complaints which have never been addressed!

Tommy_The_Gun

It is not about being in group or not - it is about lack of choice & restrictions.

- Complete 1 Endeavor - every one can do it.
- Complete 1 Endeavor while Grouped - only players in group can do it.

Same as if... lets say it was "while having max level (50)". It is more & more restrictive. Why ?! Why should we penalise certain players ? Because this is how it feels like. It does not feel like promoting group play. No. Players who play as they want and they play in group because they have chosen to, will not even notice that requirement, while solo players who chose to play solo will try to do different Endeavors. It will not make players group all of the sudden. It is same as with "do 1 Trial" Endeavor. No one will all of the sudden do 1 Trial - they will try to do other Endeavors.

And If something, it will rather cause solo players to but 2nd copy of the game when it is on discount & "fake group" to do the endeavour if this type of requirement will get more frequent.

Endeavors were supposed to be accessible for all players & while "normally playing the game". Grouping just to meet the requirement is not a normal gameplay.

thorwyn

Endeavors were supposed to be accessible for all players & while "normally playing the game". Grouping just to meet the requirement is not a normal gameplay.

Are duels part of "normally playing the gane"? Or rezzing a dead player for a solo-only player? What about solving a cyro quest for a pve-only player? Or playing one BG? Or refining materials for pvp-only people?
Whatever the endeavour demands, there are always people who don't do that type of content on a regular basis.
Solo players are not privileged people. Just like everybody else, they have to accept that SOMTIMES the endeavours are not 100% adjusted to their play styles.

LunaFlora

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

You're not forced to run dungeons for leads with other people. If you prefer playing solo you always are free to adjust your skill bars and build for your choice of playstyle and run the dungeon alone or with a companion.
Both groups of players and solo players will have to prepare accordingly for dungeons, so you're simply met with the same task as any group apart from the fact that you won't benefit from a tank or healer will rely purely on your very own skills.
You also won't have to run a dungeon on veteran mode, so you can have a very relaxed and fun solo run at your own pace while even exploring everything you might have missed or bring a companion to shove some extra levels into their pockets.

Today's daily endevours offer 3 options for playing solo and 1 for playing in a group. Since you can only do 3 per day, you've got all the necessary options to reach the max amount of seals today.

You can finish 2 quests solo by doing crafting dailies.
You can dig up a violet or golden antiquity with out any additional player necessary.
The group events in all base game public dungeons can be done naked and alone.

Just give things a try, you'll see that it's far from impossible to do these things solo. I get my max amount of seals in daily and the daily endeavors take me 30 minutes max before I head to work.

how do i solo malubeth in wayrest sewers 2?

NoticeMeArkay

Ok but honestly, why is it that doing sth with another player is so frustrating to you guys? I know Corona took a toll on most of us but... it's just socializing.

Tommy_The_Gun

thorwyn wrote: »

Endeavors were supposed to be accessible for all players & while "normally playing the game". Grouping just to meet the requirement is not a normal gameplay.

Are duels part of "normally playing the gane"? Or rezzing a dead player for a solo-only player? What about solving a cyro quest for a pve-only player? Or playing one BG? Or refining materials for pvp-only people?
Whatever the endeavour demands, there are always people who don't do that type of content on a regular basis.
Solo players are not privileged people. Just like everybody else, they have to accept that SOMTIMES the endeavours are not 100% adjusted to their play styles.

Yes, no type of player should be "privileged". But in this case it is hard not think that the "while grouped" requirement is pretty much unnecessary. Without it, no one could prohibit you from playing in group and you could still do the endeavour together. Same as someone who plays alone. Every one could do the endeavour. But with this type of requirement only players in group can do the endeavour and it kinda makes them "privileged" ones.

In general I do think that Endeavors are badly designed in a 1st place. There are 5 daily ones but we can only do 3. So would it be so hard to have 9 available daily endeavour quest (while still having the limit of max 3) ? That way we could have 3 for PvP, 3 for end-game PvE and 3 for questing / crafting / casual stuff. Every one is happy. Meanwhile ZOS simply limits our options and adds more restrictions. Right now they adding the group or even "same guild" requirement (so some players could feel special ? Idk). But without a doubt they will be adding more & more restrictions in the future which is a terrible perspective tbh.

Khenarthi

NoticeMeArkay wrote: »

Ok but honestly, why is it that doing sth with another player is so frustrating to you guys? I know Corona took a toll on most of us but... it's just socializing.

When you enter a city with Sharp-as-Night he may say "Eww, people". While my feelings are not as extreme, I prefer to do endeavors 100% solo instead of having to inconvenience a guildie to come hold my backpack while I kill a public dungeon boss. This endeavor change did not add to diversity, it simply added a restriction to the existing "kill public dungeon boss" endeavor.

AcadianPaladin

So I went to the Crow's Wood public dungeon boss which is normally pretty popular for this type of event. Sure enough there was another player there waiting for the boss to spawn. I got close and asked with a /say: Wanna group for the endeavor?

Got ignored, boss spawned, killed boss, went and dug up a purple antiquity for my third endeavor. One more reason I prefer solo play and solo tasks.

In fairness, there is a pretty good list of endeavors my elf will not do like kiill innocents, BGs, trials, duels. And a pretty good list of endeavors she can do but can't be bothered/not worth the hassle like anything in Cyrodiil, pickpocketing. And even with her lists of won't do's, she is able to get 3/5 daily endeavors over 90% of the time.

Anumaril

I don't like being restricted in how I complete my endeavours. If I'm in a solo-RP mood and want to do things at my own pace and in-character, being forced to group up with someone actively rips me out of that game experience I was having.

shadyjane62

Anything that requires the participation of other people excluding pvp is not anything I will get.

And I will be happy to do without the toxic behavior that has become endemic in this game.

Warhawke_80

I have a close group of friends I play with...but I think things are slowly changing to allow solo/duo players to do more I foresee a day when all dungeons/trails have a story mode...The toxicity is forcing the devs hand I think.

El_Borracho

Dude, its 15 seals of endeavor. Its not like missing out on an event ticket.

As for leads, dungeon leads are a pain for people who like group dungeons. The game isn't picking on solo players. They are picking on everyone. But if I was forced to choose, I would take a group dungeon lead over a "solo" lead like a treasure map chest or farming psijic portals for a lead. Every. Single. Time.

The dungeons you are "forced" to run can be run on normal. Nobody uses mics on group finder for normals so you don't have to talk to anyone. Normals are probably easier than a soloing a world boss. Think of it like running overland with less people.

SeaGtGruff

As far as today's "Complete 1 Endeavor while Grouped," do the other members of rhe group need to be present? For instance, could you group with a friend, yet each be in different zones doing different things, and each earn the endeavor in a different way, such as one player doing the group event in a public dungeon and the other player excavating a purple or gold antiquity?

CameraBeardThePirate

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Endeavors were supposed to be accessible for all players & while "normally playing the game". Grouping just to meet the requirement is not a normal gameplay.

Sorry, but grouping up in an MMO is absolutely part of normal gameplay. It's literally in the name.

sarahthes

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

I have a close group of friends I play with...but I think things are slowly changing to allow solo/duo players to do more I foresee a day when all dungeons/trails have a story mode...The toxicity is forcing the devs hand I think.

I'd be surprised if that happened. I think the new group finder is their solution to that.

Arthtur

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

As far as today's "Complete 1 Endeavor while Grouped," do the other members of rhe group need to be present? For instance, could you group with a friend, yet each be in different zones doing different things, and each earn the endeavor in a different way, such as one player doing the group event in a public dungeon and the other player excavating a purple or gold antiquity?

Well, i got that ende done while doing daily writs. I was in group by myself as it was an old group and my friend was not online soo.... i say that u only need to be in a group, doesnt matter what other person is doing.

evan302

I strongly dislike this change. ESO has a reputation for being solo-play friendly, it's a selling point.
Not everyone has friends who play this game and not all of us are comfortable just throwing out group invites to random people or accepting them.
This also has a negative impact on people who tend to play at unsocial hours.

I suspect trying to push grouping on people is going to work as well as trying to push PVP onto people who don't enjoy it. It won't change behaviour but it will cause annoyance.
Devs coming over all parental and pushing us to make friends whether we like it or not, is pretty condescending in my opinion. We are paying customes and the game is promoted as 'play your way', two things they seem to have forgotten.

Interestingly, the game I played before coming to ESO started out with a good bit of forced grouping but the devs there are now making less and less content require a group because it was leading people to quit.

SilverBride

Forced grouping will only drive players away. That is what happened with Craglorn and why it was changed so the quests could be done solo. I hate to see it moving back in that direction.

Xandreia_

its not skyrim, make friends and do things

SilverBride

Xandreia_ wrote: »

its not skyrim, make friends and do things

I do have friends I group with... when I want to... not because I'm forced to.

Tandor

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Endeavors were supposed to be accessible for all players & while "normally playing the game". Grouping just to meet the requirement is not a normal gameplay.

Sorry, but grouping up in an MMO is absolutely part of normal gameplay. It's literally in the name.

Actually, it isn't. You're talking about grouping with a few other players, hardly "massively multiplayer". That simply refers to the fact that you are playing on a server on which hundreds or thousands of other players are also playing. Nonetheless, I agree that it's a part of normal gameplay for many players, albeit not all. I don't have a problem personally with some Endeavours being group-based, or PvP-based, or involving any other gameplay I am not remotely interested in. I do, however, have a problem with restrictive Endeavours being described as introducing more diversity.

Aislinna

Just like the players who refuse to pvp,
or refuse to do trials,
or refuse to pickpocket,
or refuse to use blade of woe,
or refuse to do whatever,

do one of the other 4 daily endeavors. It's a choice.

Arafyn

You can always log a character from an alt account, group it, and then do your "solo" endeavors

SilverBride

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Sorry, but grouping up in an MMO is absolutely part of normal gameplay. It's literally in the name.

Where is Grouping in the name of Massively Multiplayer Online?