Ranged vs Melee Magblade. Does range even exist?

Bushido2513

OBJnoob wrote: »

Not sure what you mean. You mean the bit about crystal, whip, and jabs? If so, then I gotta stick to my guns. And again this isn't like a trigger for me I respect the fact that OP wants what they want. I just don't think those examples were very good.

Crystal Weapon is a great skill and I use it from range on my stamsorc. But it was absolutely worth mentioning that when crystal weapon was introduced stamsorc had NOTHING. And even now magsorc, unless they run crystal, has NOTHING. And that is not where NB is.

And Whip isn't even a spammable. Like it is but it isn't, ya know? You can spam it if you're in corrosive or whatever but what most DKs spam is FoO. And that only works as a spammable because of how busted DK is right now. I would be against giving DK a ranged spammable just like I'm against giving NB a ranged spammable. In fact I'm already against FoO acting as a ranged spammable. The real stamDK spammable is poop rocks (as DKs call it.) So again... Not sure this was a great example.

And I'm not even sure why Jabs got brought up exactly because that was obviously nerfed and templars are still VERY upset about it lol.

So what DKs have is an arguably weak AoE spammable (FoO,) that works for them because it builds stacks for Whip which is their other spammable but it only does good damage after building some stacks.

Half of sorcs have a spammable at all the other half arguably don't.

Templars spammable is AoE like FoO, recently got nerfed to do less damage accordingly, and their single target one has a cast time so they don't like it.

Necros don't like their spammable.

Wardens don't like their spammable.

So, y'know, I DO see the problem with swallow soul. But NBs aren't alone in this, and as a matter of fact at least they do HAVE a spammable. It's probably the best spammable in the game. By a mile.

I can see why some people might be of the opinion that "well, there's no harm in asking." Sure, that's valid, ask away. But the fact that this may be reasonable doesn't necessarily mean that differing opinions aren't reasonable too. We just have to reasonably disagree. Which I'm fine doing.

I think people know I'm down for a scrappy argument and they also know I check the forums a lot and I'm responsive. I accidently become the focus of defending certain things... They aren't all hot button issues for me. Sometimes I'm just casting my vote, ya know? I don't see why changing my mind is so important to some people. It isn't as though my opinion is actually holding anyone back from getting what they want.

So here's the thing. You're making this more about technical actual balance vs what I think of it as which is more of a wish list situation that wouldn't be OP if done correctly.

The point of those examples was not how well they were implemented or even if they were deserved but to say that they were done.

Here's the thing I'll say to go with the above statement. This game is MILES beyond balance changes that make sense, that's out the window and you can forget about it. ZOS does whatever they want and invites people to stay or leave with no negotiations.

So in that context I'm saying the examples make sense because the person is just saying hey if you touched these why not go ahead and touch this. Is it fair, needed, comparable 1 to 1 vs those skills and the changes made to them? Nope not at all but that's not the point. The point is hey if you're going to touch them go ahead and touch SS which hasn't been touched in a while.

Would it make sense to touch SS before touching the 70 other things people care about in this game? Nope but as I said above, we're miles beyond making sense.

With that in mind I'm just looking at the request and saying even at this ridiculous place we're at in the game is this too ridiculous? In my opinion it isn't and I'm ok with a bit of the justification of saying hey you touched these other skills why not go ahead and add this one to the roulette wheel of choices that ZOS might make in the next patch? Seems as a fair as anything given where we're at.

Lastly I might actually vote for this change just because it's at least moving forward vs who knows what nerf or unrequested change they will decide to introduce next patch cycle.


The arguments you made do make sense if you're trying to look at this as a game that's even remotely on the path to trying to be balanced but that's not what we have here for reason stated above.

Weckless

OBJnoob wrote: »

@weckless Well I'm sorry you find my opinion weird but I don't have a "deal." I'm just participating in a discussion not running for president. NB is way too strong right now it's just poor timing to be finding ways to make the rest of their kit awesome too.

If anybody wants rangeblade to be better then they can start by nerfing meleeblade. This isn't a vendetta... I don't really care on a personal level, but that's my take on balance.

You say you wish it gave a status effect and had a very minimal travel time? LOL. So you don't like the idea of force pulse but NB pulse is what you want. Mmk got it.

Also, as far as changes I may want as recompense for this one... You'll notice I never make threads asking for changes. Cuz the goal of a game for me is to become good at what the game IS. Not beg for changes until my crappy character becomes good.

Balance ebbs and flows. Everyone should have plenty of characters to switch between. Should rangeblade one day be a thing? Sure. But not today. Why? Because NB is too dominant already. If this opinion confuses you then you're just confused and I can't help you.

Rangeblade getting stronger would have no effect the strength of melee blade and nerfing melee blade wouldn't help range. What a ridiculous suggestion. And yes i would like them to do away with the travel time because it isnt a projectile so it doesnt make sense. Also its kind of weird to criticize people for making suggestions when that is literally the whole purpose of this section of the forum. Bowsorc is one of the strongest specs i consistently dominate people from range on that you seem to play as well. It would be ridiculous for me to say magsorc doesnt deserve a buff because of bowsorc. You have every right to your opinion just dont be surprised when it gets called out for being bad.

Weckless

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Also to your point about the other skills listed, I believe the point was that these skills were at least tweaked to make them a bit more useable even if it didn't always work out well. SS hasn't been tweaked in a while.

Not sure what you mean. You mean the bit about crystal, whip, and jabs? If so, then I gotta stick to my guns. And again this isn't like a trigger for me I respect the fact that OP wants what they want. I just don't think those examples were very good.

Crystal Weapon is a great skill and I use it from range on my stamsorc. But it was absolutely worth mentioning that when crystal weapon was introduced stamsorc had NOTHING. And even now magsorc, unless they run crystal, has NOTHING. And that is not where NB is.

And Whip isn't even a spammable. Like it is but it isn't, ya know? You can spam it if you're in corrosive or whatever but what most DKs spam is FoO. And that only works as a spammable because of how busted DK is right now. I would be against giving DK a ranged spammable just like I'm against giving NB a ranged spammable. In fact I'm already against FoO acting as a ranged spammable. The real stamDK spammable is poop rocks (as DKs call it.) So again... Not sure this was a great example.

And I'm not even sure why Jabs got brought up exactly because that was obviously nerfed and templars are still VERY upset about it lol.

So what DKs have is an arguably weak AoE spammable (FoO,) that works for them because it builds stacks for Whip which is their other spammable but it only does good damage after building some stacks.

Half of sorcs have a spammable at all the other half arguably don't.

Templars spammable is AoE like FoO, recently got nerfed to do less damage accordingly, and their single target one has a cast time so they don't like it.

Necros don't like their spammable.

Wardens don't like their spammable.

So, y'know, I DO see the problem with swallow soul. But NBs aren't alone in this, and as a matter of fact at least they do HAVE a spammable. It's probably the best spammable in the game. By a mile.

I can see why some people might be of the opinion that "well, there's no harm in asking." Sure, that's valid, ask away. But the fact that this may be reasonable doesn't necessarily mean that differing opinions aren't reasonable too. We just have to reasonably disagree. Which I'm fine doing.

I think people know I'm down for a scrappy argument and they also know I check the forums a lot and I'm responsive. I accidently become the focus of defending certain things... They aren't all hot button issues for me. Sometimes I'm just casting my vote, ya know? I don't see why changing my mind is so important to some people. It isn't as though my opinion is actually holding anyone back from getting what they want.

I know necros that are liking the buffed spammable but they as well want the travel time reduced. Same thing with wardens. That is the main complaint of them. And warden even works with dive way better than nb with swallow soul. It puts ppl off balance and puts a full strength dot and is bleed damage. Ranged playstyles as a whole need addressing. This really just seems like a hypocritical position tbh. Youre fine with bowsorc being busted but don't want something you don't play to even be decent. I don't understand it

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Not sure what you mean. You mean the bit about crystal, whip, and jabs? If so, then I gotta stick to my guns. And again this isn't like a trigger for me I respect the fact that OP wants what they want. I just don't think those examples were very good.

Crystal Weapon is a great skill and I use it from range on my stamsorc. But it was absolutely worth mentioning that when crystal weapon was introduced stamsorc had NOTHING. And even now magsorc, unless they run crystal, has NOTHING. And that is not where NB is.

And Whip isn't even a spammable. Like it is but it isn't, ya know? You can spam it if you're in corrosive or whatever but what most DKs spam is FoO. And that only works as a spammable because of how busted DK is right now. I would be against giving DK a ranged spammable just like I'm against giving NB a ranged spammable. In fact I'm already against FoO acting as a ranged spammable. The real stamDK spammable is poop rocks (as DKs call it.) So again... Not sure this was a great example.

And I'm not even sure why Jabs got brought up exactly because that was obviously nerfed and templars are still VERY upset about it lol.

So what DKs have is an arguably weak AoE spammable (FoO,) that works for them because it builds stacks for Whip which is their other spammable but it only does good damage after building some stacks.

Half of sorcs have a spammable at all the other half arguably don't.

Templars spammable is AoE like FoO, recently got nerfed to do less damage accordingly, and their single target one has a cast time so they don't like it.

Necros don't like their spammable.

Wardens don't like their spammable.

So, y'know, I DO see the problem with swallow soul. But NBs aren't alone in this, and as a matter of fact at least they do HAVE a spammable. It's probably the best spammable in the game. By a mile.

I can see why some people might be of the opinion that "well, there's no harm in asking." Sure, that's valid, ask away. But the fact that this may be reasonable doesn't necessarily mean that differing opinions aren't reasonable too. We just have to reasonably disagree. Which I'm fine doing.

I think people know I'm down for a scrappy argument and they also know I check the forums a lot and I'm responsive. I accidently become the focus of defending certain things... They aren't all hot button issues for me. Sometimes I'm just casting my vote, ya know? I don't see why changing my mind is so important to some people. It isn't as though my opinion is actually holding anyone back from getting what they want.

So here's the thing. You're making this more about technical actual balance vs what I think of it as which is more of a wish list situation that wouldn't be OP if done correctly.

The point of those examples was not how well they were implemented or even if they were deserved but to say that they were done.

Here's the thing I'll say to go with the above statement. This game is MILES beyond balance changes that make sense, that's out the window and you can forget about it. ZOS does whatever they want and invites people to stay or leave with no negotiations.

So in that context I'm saying the examples make sense because the person is just saying hey if you touched these why not go ahead and touch this. Is it fair, needed, comparable 1 to 1 vs those skills and the changes made to them? Nope not at all but that's not the point. The point is hey if you're going to touch them go ahead and touch SS which hasn't been touched in a while.

Would it make sense to touch SS before touching the 70 other things people care about in this game? Nope but as I said above, we're miles beyond making sense.

With that in mind I'm just looking at the request and saying even at this ridiculous place we're at in the game is this too ridiculous? In my opinion it isn't and I'm ok with a bit of the justification of saying hey you touched these other skills why not go ahead and add this one to the roulette wheel of choices that ZOS might make in the next patch? Seems as a fair as anything given where we're at.

Lastly I might actually vote for this change just because it's at least moving forward vs who knows what nerf or unrequested change they will decide to introduce next patch cycle.


The arguments you made do make sense if you're trying to look at this as a game that's even remotely on the path to trying to be balanced but that's not what we have here for reason stated above.

I think Nightblade mains melee or not, can all agree to one thing. That is, that the merciless resolve's tooltip scaling is way to strong.

That's it, Nightblade dot's are bad, fear has been nerfed to 5 meters, fear traps only has 1 trap now, concealed is ok for a melee spammable, now that they got rid of the 10% unique damage done. Suprise attack is still mid. Nightblades burst heal is strong, but dark cloak is mid. Swallow soul is F tier. You take merciless resolve out of the picture and Nightblade is nothing. A balance to the class would be unironically buffing the class, minus Merciless resolve.

Nightblade's get crit chance and crit damage (Other classes have the same ammount). They get base health and base mag. A small healing buffs nothing crazy. A little bit of baked in recovery. The most OP passive advantage is the ult gain. At the end of the day its still not game breaking. So, its not passives carrying the class unlike DK.

Literally the only thing making NB too strong is Merciless Resolve. You can't change my mind.

That being said, BUFF SWALLOW SOUL. It's at least a start in a different direction.

Also, I'd rather have combat changes that will affect PvP and PvE rather than some bug in a quest that half the eso pop isn't ever going to do. They have no problem buffing skills like suprise attack because *It's not being used as much as we would like* according to the dev comment. How can they notice that concealed is being over used compared to suprise attack, but not see that swallow soul isn't being used.

When it comes to ranged spammables. Even if they are wonky/bad mechanics. They still have either a status effect, or something that could potentially be useful. With swallow soul, I get a healing tick that I'd rather just not be there. It heals for almost nothing even in a full acuity damage build. The skill is delayed, does less damage than most spammables in the game. This post isn't meant to complain about other classes. This post is here to bring something that once was good and now is bad to the light. If they don't want ranged playstyles, just say that.

Never have I played an MMO where the ranged playstyles were the worst builds in the game. They don't have to be stronger than the other playstyles, but they can also at least be playable. Play how you want in ESO is a myth. ESO just turning into a non unique PvP game, where there is 1 meta build for each class and that's it. Imagine having 500 sets in the game, to only use the same 5 in pvp, and the same 5 for pve.

I think @Dekrypted was right when he said, "As controversial as the high isle patch was with how powerful oakensoul was, with every class being strong due to the ring and conditions on the skills at the time of that patch, the game was actually fun."

Either everyone be nerfed, or everyone be strong. The game was definitely fun. During this time with oaken...any build could be affective. The only class that abused Oaken was Dk's but they are always abusing sets, like in the past Titanborn/Ironblood...or like right now Acuity. Thats another topic tho.

Back to the quote tho, if you want other ranged spammables to be noticed, I advise you to make a forum thread about ranged spammables as a whole. But as for me, Im specifically talking about Nightblade.

I just want to play how I want, which I can definitely use Swallow Soul, but I'm quite frankly nerfing my ability. The fact that I just said that proves it needs buffed.

Bushido2513

FoJul wrote: »

I think Nightblade mains melee or not, can all agree to one thing. That is, that the merciless resolve's tooltip scaling is way to strong.

I'd rather take the feelings or agreement out o the picture and just say what is the tooltip / damage done vs other similar skills? I mostly deal with sorc but I'd have to say I do believe the tooltip is higher than other similar skills which I believe are Blastbones, Shalks, POL, Charged whip but I don't have the numbers to say for sure.

FoJul wrote: »

You take merciless resolve out of the picture and Nightblade is nothing. A balance to the class would be unironically buffing the class, minus Merciless resolve.

Literally the only thing making NB too strong is Merciless Resolve. You can't change my mind.

Back up for a second. You can't just take away a burst damage effect, every class gets one. That being said you could either tone it down or replace it with something else. So if you lower the tooltip of merciless or say replace it with POL I believe nbs would still be killing people.

In some cases I also think their strength comes from good heals and evasion as well. Also even if you lowered the tooltip or anything like that you'd have to account for people playing different to account for the change. There have definitely been some instances where ZOS nerfed something only to birth a playstyle previously not seen because nobody had to figure it out. Based on these things nerfing just MR might bring nb in line but can't say for sure.

FoJul wrote: »

I think @Dekrypted was right when he said, "As controversial as the high isle patch was with how powerful oakensoul was, with every class being strong due to the ring and conditions on the skills at the time of that patch, the game was actually fun."

Either everyone be nerfed, or everyone be strong. The game was definitely fun. During this time with oaken...any build could be affective. The only class that abused Oaken was Dk's but they are always abusing sets, like in the past Titanborn/Ironblood...or like right now Acuity. Thats another topic tho.

I still say it depends on what your idea of fun was and what class you were playing. Oh and let's not forget if you actually paid to get the ring in the first place.

I didn't find it to be as fun because you just kept running into dks waiting to pop corrosive and nbs hitting harder than they ever hard. The only fun I had in that one was running into a sorc that had atro on cooldown, that actually made me laugh.

I'm happy with an everybody can die meta as long as everyone has a fair chance. Should be like the wild west where everyone has a gun and anyone can equally die. Oakensoul was like I have a gun, that other guy is a terminator, and that other guy over there is a liquid metal terminator that feels my bullets but can usually just shrug them off.

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

I think Nightblade mains melee or not, can all agree to one thing. That is, that the merciless resolve's tooltip scaling is way to strong.

I'd rather take the feelings or agreement out o the picture and just say what is the tooltip / damage done vs other similar skills? I mostly deal with sorc but I'd have to say I do believe the tooltip is higher than other similar skills which I believe are Blastbones, Shalks, POL, Charged whip but I don't have the numbers to say for sure.

FoJul wrote: »

You take merciless resolve out of the picture and Nightblade is nothing. A balance to the class would be unironically buffing the class, minus Merciless resolve.

Literally the only thing making NB too strong is Merciless Resolve. You can't change my mind.

Back up for a second. You can't just take away a burst damage effect, every class gets one. That being said you could either tone it down or replace it with something else. So if you lower the tooltip of merciless or say replace it with POL I believe nbs would still be killing people.

In some cases I also think their strength comes from good heals and evasion as well. Also even if you lowered the tooltip or anything like that you'd have to account for people playing different to account for the change. There have definitely been some instances where ZOS nerfed something only to birth a playstyle previously not seen because nobody had to figure it out. Based on these things nerfing just MR might bring nb in line but can't say for sure.

FoJul wrote: »

I think @Dekrypted was right when he said, "As controversial as the high isle patch was with how powerful oakensoul was, with every class being strong due to the ring and conditions on the skills at the time of that patch, the game was actually fun."

Either everyone be nerfed, or everyone be strong. The game was definitely fun. During this time with oaken...any build could be affective. The only class that abused Oaken was Dk's but they are always abusing sets, like in the past Titanborn/Ironblood...or like right now Acuity. Thats another topic tho.

I still say it depends on what your idea of fun was and what class you were playing. Oh and let's not forget if you actually paid to get the ring in the first place.

I didn't find it to be as fun because you just kept running into dks waiting to pop corrosive and nbs hitting harder than they ever hard. The only fun I had in that one was running into a sorc that had atro on cooldown, that actually made me laugh.

I'm happy with an everybody can die meta as long as everyone has a fair chance. Should be like the wild west where everyone has a gun and anyone can equally die. Oakensoul was like I have a gun, that other guy is a terminator, and that other guy over there is a liquid metal terminator that feels my bullets but can usually just shrug them off.

Before I read all this, I'm not saying remove merciless LOL. I'm saying without our burst we do no damage. Just take your NB build rn and remove merciless resolve. Your not killing anything without proc sets.

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

I think Nightblade mains melee or not, can all agree to one thing. That is, that the merciless resolve's tooltip scaling is way to strong.

I'd rather take the feelings or agreement out o the picture and just say what is the tooltip / damage done vs other similar skills? I mostly deal with sorc but I'd have to say I do believe the tooltip is higher than other similar skills which I believe are Blastbones, Shalks, POL, Charged whip but I don't have the numbers to say for sure.

FoJul wrote: »

You take merciless resolve out of the picture and Nightblade is nothing. A balance to the class would be unironically buffing the class, minus Merciless resolve.

Literally the only thing making NB too strong is Merciless Resolve. You can't change my mind.

Back up for a second. You can't just take away a burst damage effect, every class gets one. That being said you could either tone it down or replace it with something else. So if you lower the tooltip of merciless or say replace it with POL I believe nbs would still be killing people.

In some cases I also think their strength comes from good heals and evasion as well. Also even if you lowered the tooltip or anything like that you'd have to account for people playing different to account for the change. There have definitely been some instances where ZOS nerfed something only to birth a playstyle previously not seen because nobody had to figure it out. Based on these things nerfing just MR might bring nb in line but can't say for sure.

FoJul wrote: »

I think @Dekrypted was right when he said, "As controversial as the high isle patch was with how powerful oakensoul was, with every class being strong due to the ring and conditions on the skills at the time of that patch, the game was actually fun."

Either everyone be nerfed, or everyone be strong. The game was definitely fun. During this time with oaken...any build could be affective. The only class that abused Oaken was Dk's but they are always abusing sets, like in the past Titanborn/Ironblood...or like right now Acuity. Thats another topic tho.

I still say it depends on what your idea of fun was and what class you were playing. Oh and let's not forget if you actually paid to get the ring in the first place.

I didn't find it to be as fun because you just kept running into dks waiting to pop corrosive and nbs hitting harder than they ever hard. The only fun I had in that one was running into a sorc that had atro on cooldown, that actually made me laugh.

I'm happy with an everybody can die meta as long as everyone has a fair chance. Should be like the wild west where everyone has a gun and anyone can equally die. Oakensoul was like I have a gun, that other guy is a terminator, and that other guy over there is a liquid metal terminator that feels my bullets but can usually just shrug them off.

DK's were the only class 100% unkillable with oakensoul...It was a very specific build which you had to have everything in to ult gen.. Keep in mind Corrosive is the issue here, not oakensoul.

What I mean by I was having fun, was that I could actually play a rangeblade WITH SWALLOW SOUL. Specifically SWALLOW SOUL. A class skill. I 100% am not lying when I say I removed Merciless Resolve off of my bar HAPPILY during the oaken meta. I replaced it with a dot/hot 2 in one skill known has Structered Entropy. I can send build link if you want.

That being said, I didn't need assassins will burst to carry my damage. I had so much fun, even fighting Corro DKs...cause they could still be countered LOL...I have no idea what direction your trying to go to. But I will say again, BUFF SWALLOW SOUL.

Bushido2513

FoJul wrote: »

Before I read all this, I'm not saying remove merciless LOL. I'm saying without our burst we do no damage. Just take your NB build rn and remove merciless resolve. Your not killing anything without proc sets.

Eh you're getting a little murky here I mean most of the only sets worn these days are proc sets even if it's something like rallying cry.

I mean you're basically saying take my build, remove merciless and don't put any proc sets in play to make up for lost damage and I mean yeah I wouldn't kill much but most any class would have the same issue.

I'm not saying merciless isn't the highest tooltip of all delayed damage tooltips, it might be. I'm saying that you could nerf the damage and nb would still be an overall higher end threat because it has the most well rounded toolkit.

But in trying to say what nb strength is or isn't you have to make a legit argument. I mean if you take MR away I'm just going to put some other damage build/setup in its place and still get the kills. What you didn't take away was any passives that boost damage/evasion and the awesome burst heal. So I can still create a lot of pressure, have good survival, and probably secure kills, just in a different way.

I'd say the overall damage OR the healing of nb need to be toned down to bring it in line, but if you just nerf merciless it would probably just morph into another build that was nearly or just as lethal .

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Before I read all this, I'm not saying remove merciless LOL. I'm saying without our burst we do no damage. Just take your NB build rn and remove merciless resolve. Your not killing anything without proc sets.

Eh you're getting a little murky here I mean most of the only sets worn these days are proc sets even if it's something like rallying cry.

I mean you're basically saying take my build, remove merciless and don't put any proc sets in play to make up for lost damage and I mean yeah I wouldn't kill much but most any class would have the same issue.

I'm not saying merciless isn't the highest tooltip of all delayed damage tooltips, it might be. I'm saying that you could nerf the damage and nb would still be an overall higher end threat because it has the most well rounded toolkit.

But in trying to say what nb strength is or isn't you have to make a legit argument. I mean if you take MR away I'm just going to put some other damage build/setup in its place and still get the kills. What you didn't take away was any passives that boost damage/evasion and the awesome burst heal. So I can still create a lot of pressure, have good survival, and probably secure kills, just in a different way.

I'd say the overall damage OR the healing of nb need to be toned down to bring it in line, but if you just nerf merciless it would probably just morph into another build that was nearly or just as lethal .

Your still not talking about SWALLOW SOUL.

Anyways, I'm fixing post TT , with argonian with 0 passives, 0 cp, 0 attributes...I just slapped on each class with no anything making the damage differentiate.

Here are the results.















Now, if I have to do this again with spammables, just let me know.

Nightblades are not really using free damage procs. Unless they are ganking. Most Hybrid blades are stat dense. Hybrid blades being the Melee Culprits, that keep getting buffed.

DKs, get carried by their dot pressure and massive survivability, they can live without burst. Sorcs survivability is questionable, yet there damage is on par. Necros lack both burst and pressure. Can't really argue with that. Templar burst thru PotL is non-existent due to the recent nerf 3 patches ago. So they have been making it work with no burst. Arcanist have no burst, yet they still kill things. Wardens have ok ish burst, but not 20k hits lol.

But, the main Gripe on this thread, was that swallow soul needs to be competent. Not merciless.

Bushido2513

So actually it looks like MR is close to what the other damage procs are offering when you take everything into account. In some cases it's an overall slightly higher tooltip but not by a crazy amount.

So ok I don't think it works to buff SS. Here's the problem I'm seeing, it's thematically dead, I'll explain.

It's in the healing set of skills for nb, say you buffed it for damage it would still only benefit from healing passives. At that point it's silly to be a better damage utility because it's not getting really any other buffs. Yeah you'd have a ranged spamable but to be honest then it needs other supporting passives or to be in a skill line with supporting passives.

I think in this someone looking at this would just have to admit that they are playing a class with a healing skill line and that's just now it goes. The proper way to look at this would be to take something from assassin or shadow skill lines and make it ranged but most if not all of those skills are usable and hard to think of replacing.

If SS is buffed in the way that's being talked about here it would really be saying hey let's take skills from the healing line and just make them more about damage. If ss was buffed technically to fit the theme correctly it would only be to buff the healing not the damage

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

So actually it looks like MR is close to what the other damage procs are offering when you take everything into account. In some cases it's an overall slightly higher tooltip but not by a crazy amount.

So ok I don't think it works to buff SS. Here's the problem I'm seeing, it's thematically dead, I'll explain.

It's in the healing set of skills for nb, say you buffed it for damage it would still only benefit from healing passives. At that point it's silly to be a better damage utility because it's not getting really any other buffs. Yeah you'd have a ranged spamable but to be honest then it needs other supporting passives or to be in a skill line with supporting passives.

I think in this someone looking at this would just have to admit that they are playing a class with a healing skill line and that's just now it goes. The proper way to look at this would be to take something from assassin or shadow skill lines and make it ranged but most if not all of those skills are usable and hard to think of replacing.

If SS is buffed in the way that's being talked about here it would really be saying hey let's take skills from the healing line and just make them more about damage. If ss was buffed technically to fit the theme correctly it would only be to buff the healing not the damage

Slightly higher? Dk and NB together are more than the rest of the classes combined.

So your saying, since everything else in the skill line is considered a healing skill, that swallow soul should be considered healing, too?

Wait but why does every single class have a healing/defense skill line, and somewhere in there there is an ability or passive that does damage. Every single class.

Swallow soul doesn't need passive or blah blah blah...it needs either 1. Higher tooltip or 2. A status affect/other affect minus the healing. Put the healing on Funnel Health.

Bushido2513

Dekrypted wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

So actually it looks like MR is close to what the other damage procs are offering when you take everything into account. In some cases it's an overall slightly higher tooltip but not by a crazy amount.

So ok I don't think it works to buff SS. Here's the problem I'm seeing, it's thematically dead, I'll explain.

It's in the healing set of skills for nb, say you buffed it for damage it would still only benefit from healing passives. At that point it's silly to be a better damage utility because it's not getting really any other buffs. Yeah you'd have a ranged spamable but to be honest then it needs other supporting passives or to be in a skill line with supporting passives.

I think in this someone looking at this would just have to admit that they are playing a class with a healing skill line and that's just now it goes. The proper way to look at this would be to take something from assassin or shadow skill lines and make it ranged but most if not all of those skills are usable and hard to think of replacing.

If SS is buffed in the way that's being talked about here it would really be saying hey let's take skills from the healing line and just make them more about damage. If ss was buffed technically to fit the theme correctly it would only be to buff the healing not the damage

@Bushido2513 this thread is about swallow soul. please stay on topic or make a new forum thread. Thanks.

You're saying its dead, but the first line and your previous posts still is talking about Merciless. If swallow soul is dead, let's just keep talking about the skill and whats wrong with it. No need to even bring up another skill unless it involves pulling dmg from it to load it into other abilities like Swallow Soul

I now return to the void.

@Dekrypted You may want to do your homework and trace that farther back. I'm responding to someone else posting about MR. You could go around asking everyone that responds to it to stop responding to it or just ask the original poster to leave it be and not leave another comment about it. I however never introduced MR to this thread.

Bushido2513

FoJul wrote: »

Slightly higher? Dk and NB together are more than the rest of the classes combined.

So your saying, since everything else in the skill line is considered a healing skill, that swallow soul should be considered healing, too?

Wait but why does every single class have a healing/defense skill line, and somewhere in there there is an ability or passive that does damage. Every single class.

Swallow soul doesn't need passive or blah blah blah...it needs either 1. Higher tooltip or 2. A status affect/other affect minus the healing. Put the healing on Funnel Health.

I did the math of each tooltip at it's maximum and the numbers seemed close. MR is a static number so say for instance POL, I adjusted it to the maximum value plus the base. It's true I could have also used an average I suppose. Likewise for Blastbones I adjusted for the distance bonus. But if you take it from an average then yes it would put MR a bit higher but then you also have to account for secondary effects, AOE standards, etc.

Show me another class that has a full healing skill line with a skill on it that is a ranged spamable that does the damage you want SS to do. If you can set precedent then I'd have to agree with it but if not then you're talking something that's the first of it's kind and would therefore fall under a different consideration or not need to exist at all.

Bushido2513

Dekrypted wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

So actually it looks like MR is close to what the other damage procs are offering when you take everything into account. In some cases it's an overall slightly higher tooltip but not by a crazy amount.

So ok I don't think it works to buff SS. Here's the problem I'm seeing, it's thematically dead, I'll explain.

It's in the healing set of skills for nb, say you buffed it for damage it would still only benefit from healing passives. At that point it's silly to be a better damage utility because it's not getting really any other buffs. Yeah you'd have a ranged spamable but to be honest then it needs other supporting passives or to be in a skill line with supporting passives.

I think in this someone looking at this would just have to admit that they are playing a class with a healing skill line and that's just now it goes. The proper way to look at this would be to take something from assassin or shadow skill lines and make it ranged but most if not all of those skills are usable and hard to think of replacing.

If SS is buffed in the way that's being talked about here it would really be saying hey let's take skills from the healing line and just make them more about damage. If ss was buffed technically to fit the theme correctly it would only be to buff the healing not the damage

@Bushido2513 this thread is about swallow soul. please stay on topic or make a new forum thread. Thanks.

You're saying its dead, but the first line and your previous posts still is talking about Merciless. If swallow soul is dead, let's just keep talking about the skill and whats wrong with it. No need to even bring up another skill unless it involves pulling dmg from it to load it into other abilities like Swallow Soul

I now return to the void.

@Dekrypted You may want to do your homework and trace that farther back. I'm responding to someone else posting about MR. You could go around asking everyone that responds to it to stop responding to it or just ask the original poster to leave it be and not leave another comment about it. I however never introduced MR to this thread.

If it makes you feel any better, I can suggest that @FoJul and any others in the thread focus themselves back onto talking about swallow soul as I quoted the original post.

I'm allowed to post something like that as I have in other threads. Sometimes others reading threads ask others to make a post on their behalf especially when a thread they're invested in gets derailed

Cheers

@Dekrypted Oh that's up to you, I was just saying it seems less productive to address the replies vs the original post but as they say you do you!

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

So actually it looks like MR is close to what the other damage procs are offering when you take everything into account. In some cases it's an overall slightly higher tooltip but not by a crazy amount.

So ok I don't think it works to buff SS. Here's the problem I'm seeing, it's thematically dead, I'll explain.

It's in the healing set of skills for nb, say you buffed it for damage it would still only benefit from healing passives. At that point it's silly to be a better damage utility because it's not getting really any other buffs. Yeah you'd have a ranged spamable but to be honest then it needs other supporting passives or to be in a skill line with supporting passives.

I think in this someone looking at this would just have to admit that they are playing a class with a healing skill line and that's just now it goes. The proper way to look at this would be to take something from assassin or shadow skill lines and make it ranged but most if not all of those skills are usable and hard to think of replacing.

If SS is buffed in the way that's being talked about here it would really be saying hey let's take skills from the healing line and just make them more about damage. If ss was buffed technically to fit the theme correctly it would only be to buff the healing not the damage

@Bushido2513 this thread is about swallow soul. please stay on topic or make a new forum thread. Thanks.

You're saying its dead, but the first line and your previous posts still is talking about Merciless. If swallow soul is dead, let's just keep talking about the skill and whats wrong with it. No need to even bring up another skill unless it involves pulling dmg from it to load it into other abilities like Swallow Soul

I now return to the void.

@Dekrypted You may want to do your homework and trace that farther back. I'm responding to someone else posting about MR. You could go around asking everyone that responds to it to stop responding to it or just ask the original poster to leave it be and not leave another comment about it. I however never introduced MR to this thread.

If it makes you feel any better, I can suggest that @FoJul and any others in the thread focus themselves back onto talking about swallow soul as I quoted the original post.

I'm allowed to post something like that as I have in other threads. Sometimes others reading threads ask others to make a post on their behalf especially when a thread they're invested in gets derailed

Cheers

@Dekrypted Oh that's up to you, I was just saying it seems less productive to address the replies vs the original post but as they say you do you!

Swallow Soul is the main topic it whether someone brought it up or not. You are actually insane trying to talk about PotL, when im talking about swallow soul.

From 2015-2019 Swallow soul was always a solid option when making a magblade. When I stopped playing, a bunch of changes happened and I quit playing. Which is fixing to happen again, because the playstyle I love, is trash. When High Isle/ Oaken came out. It brought me back, an that was the most fun I had out of all the MMO experience I ever had. Just to be followed by even more nerfs.

All classes have a defense/healing skill line, and have damage skills baked into them. Swallow Soul has been one of those since the beginning of ESO. It allowed a very unique playstyle.

But I keep forgetting, we can't have uniqueness. All nightblades got to go under the same build, just to get slandered by every class in the game because I can negate damage with cloak and 20k bow you. PROOF




Ain't another class that can do this. Buffing swallow, will give nightblades a better option, and reduce the melee count.

Bushido2513

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

That's the thing, did you miss the part where he said full damage and he was hitting 4k swallow souls spams. You can respectfully leave this thread.

I'm not saying buff swallow soul to outperform others. But give it something to play with. I don't want one option on Nightblade for all content of the game. Spamming concealed and bowing every 4 seconds. Its the same for pve, its the same for pve. One playstyle available for nightblade.

The fact your arguing about this, deadens me inside. Swallow soul can't compete with not a single spammable in the game. So what its in a healing skill line. It was never meant to be a full on heal skill. The heal blows on it. Nightblade healers don't use it either. NO ONE DOES. The ability is underperforming and you can't say that it isn't.

You make a build and kill me in a swallow soul build and ill request to delete the thread. Until then....


BUFF SWALLOW SOUL

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

your basically throwing your hands up and saying *Oh well, Melee nightblade is BiS, so just play that instead.*

Which is exactly the point of this thread. I want to play a different playstyle that was far more superior than melee for along time.

Bushido2513

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

That's the thing, did you miss the part where he said full damage and he was hitting 4k swallow souls spams. You can respectfully leave this thread.

I'm not saying buff swallow soul to outperform others. But give it something to play with. I don't want one option on Nightblade for all content of the game. Spamming concealed and bowing every 4 seconds. Its the same for pve, its the same for pve. One playstyle available for nightblade.

The fact your arguing about this, deadens me inside. Swallow soul can't compete with not a single spammable in the game. So what its in a healing skill line. It was never meant to be a full on heal skill. The heal blows on it. Nightblade healers don't use it either. NO ONE DOES. The ability is underperforming and you can't say that it isn't.

You make a build and kill me in a swallow soul build and ill request to delete the thread. Until then....


BUFF SWALLOW SOUL

Well I will agree nobody is using it so I could see buffing it but again I'd still want to see that within the idea of the skill line. Honestly it just needs to be reworked but adding damage as a spamable to a healing skill line seems off.

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

That's the thing, did you miss the part where he said full damage and he was hitting 4k swallow souls spams. You can respectfully leave this thread.

I'm not saying buff swallow soul to outperform others. But give it something to play with. I don't want one option on Nightblade for all content of the game. Spamming concealed and bowing every 4 seconds. Its the same for pve, its the same for pve. One playstyle available for nightblade.

The fact your arguing about this, deadens me inside. Swallow soul can't compete with not a single spammable in the game. So what its in a healing skill line. It was never meant to be a full on heal skill. The heal blows on it. Nightblade healers don't use it either. NO ONE DOES. The ability is underperforming and you can't say that it isn't.

You make a build and kill me in a swallow soul build and ill request to delete the thread. Until then....


BUFF SWALLOW SOUL

Well I will agree nobody is using it so I could see buffing it but again I'd still want to see that within the idea of the skill line. Honestly it just needs to be reworked but adding damage as a spamable to a healing skill line seems off.

But all classes have damage within their healing/defense skill line. Swallow soul used to be strong. Also it's delayed.

Bushido2513

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

your basically throwing your hands up and saying *Oh well, Melee nightblade is BiS, so just play that instead.*

Which is exactly the point of this thread. I want to play a different playstyle that was far more superior than melee for along time.

Well you can play those style but you're asking to do it your way. I don't have a problem with that other than the idea that this change wouldn't be thematically correct for a skill in the healing skill line.

No lie, I don't want to see awesome damage skills in healing skill lines especially just for the sake of making a playstyle when weapon skills do that.

Now if you ask me about converting concealed to a ranged spamable I'd be more on board and if that isn't doable then maybe the class just works that way?

I'm trying to see the side of others here but this is also asking me to give up on having better themes and organization in class skills and I don't agree with that.

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

your basically throwing your hands up and saying *Oh well, Melee nightblade is BiS, so just play that instead.*

Which is exactly the point of this thread. I want to play a different playstyle that was far more superior than melee for along time.

Well you can play those style but you're asking to do it your way. I don't have a problem with that other than the idea that this change wouldn't be thematically correct for a skill in the healing skill line.

No lie, I don't want to see awesome damage skills in healing skill lines especially just for the sake of making a playstyle when weapon skills do that.

Now if you ask me about converting concealed to a ranged spamable I'd be more on board and if that isn't doable then maybe the class just works that way?

I'm trying to see the side of others here but this is also asking me to give up on having better themes and organization in class skills and I don't agree with that.

Why do you keep saying its a healing skill line tho anyways?
Siphoning doesnt have to mean healing. Siphoning as in you take their health and make it yours. Which means you have to do damage, there is more damage abilities in the skill line. You probably don't play nightblade.

Also, might I add, there is healing skills in passive in every single nightblade tree. Not singled down to one.

FoJul

OBJnoob wrote: »

@Bushido2513 Stamsorc's crystal weapon is ranged or melee, yes, but what does MAGsorc have? They have force pulse is what they have, lol. And DK? Are we talking about poop rocks, as DK calls it?

I'm not necessarily against buffing swallow soul but it's going to need to be just a different skill entirely. Because the last thing NB needs is a ranged spammable that heals and does decent damage. Terrible idea. Incidentally the reason why it does bad damage is because it heals. And you could say this is a PvP complaint... But okay, so why does a PvEblade need a spammable that heals either?

Mostly though I just disagree with the popular opinion that every class ability needs to be better than it's weaponline alternative. People seem to think this makes classes more thematic or whatever... Maybe... But it also makes them all the same.

Also, NB has a ranged execute. They have shadow image and shadowy disguise. They have a massive burst tool that can be used at range and stacks off of light attacks. I think it's more than a stretch to say that NB isn't capable of fighting at range. Why? Because they don't want to slot a non-class spammable? I mean, are we comparing rangeblade to other ranged classes or only to meleeblade? Nobody can keep up with meleeblade. Join the club.

Buff the damage on swallow soul and the next thing requested will be "well it needs to put people off balance too, because we're losing out on 10% damage and lack a ranged stun."

Also, I got side tracked from this topic. The heals on swallow soul are absolutely terrible in PvP. You have to do damage to even get the heal. It heals for 34% of the damage swallow does over 10 seconds. (this was one of the nerfs from way back when) so say I have a 5k Tooltip on swallow. In fight, that is going to hit for MAYBE 3k. SO, lets do some quick math.

3k Swallow soul
36% of that is 1080.
Divide that by 2 because of battle spirit you get...540 healing per 2 seconds, for 10 seconds.
That heal is absurd...Nerf swallow soul. (SARCASTIC DONT TAKE THIS SERIOUS)

In the post, I said how about making one morph do healing, and one do more damage with less healing and add a different affect to it? It's not that hard, as they added bezerk to concealed and no one asked for it.

As for the ranged execute, most classes are going to burst heal before it ever lands. Impale is a terrible execute. It's delayed, slow, clonky, and not really usable.

For the comparing to other classes, It's not fair to say that no one can keep up with melee blades cause that's simply not true. There are definitely some strong sorcerer builds from ranged . Strong warden builds from ranged. Definitely strong templar builds from ranged. I don't see necro's often so I can't say for sure. And DK's ranged spammable is flames of oblivion, not poop rocks. With corro anything is possible on DK so there you go. Don't get me started on arcanist. There is 5 classes right there out of 7 (none being ranged nightblade) that Outclass rangeblade. Yeah I have 1 Ranged burst ability that carries the entire build. But, at the end of the day its not enough to kill the other said 5 classes I mentioned.

Bushido2513

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

your basically throwing your hands up and saying *Oh well, Melee nightblade is BiS, so just play that instead.*

Which is exactly the point of this thread. I want to play a different playstyle that was far more superior than melee for along time.

Well you can play those style but you're asking to do it your way. I don't have a problem with that other than the idea that this change wouldn't be thematically correct for a skill in the healing skill line.

No lie, I don't want to see awesome damage skills in healing skill lines especially just for the sake of making a playstyle when weapon skills do that.

Now if you ask me about converting concealed to a ranged spamable I'd be more on board and if that isn't doable then maybe the class just works that way?

I'm trying to see the side of others here but this is also asking me to give up on having better themes and organization in class skills and I don't agree with that.

Why do you keep saying its a healing skill line tho anyways?
Siphoning doesnt have to mean healing. Siphoning as in you take their health and make it yours. Which means you have to do damage, there is more damage abilities in the skill line. You probably don't play nightblade.

Also, might I add, there is healing skills in passive in every single nightblade tree. Not singled down to one.

You got me there, it's not a healing skill line but more so healing oriented. There's definitely damage in there but not anything that is a staple as a damage dealing skill other than the ultimate or the AOE which are very useful but don't scream ranged or high damage spamable.

More so to be honest the skill seems to just fit as is. Though I agree nobody uses it but I also don't see that many people using cripple as much even though it's a wonderful skill.

FoJul

It would be a different story if I had a ranged stun, as well as a ranged execute that actually isn't terrible. I wouldn't grip at all if they fixed those aspects of nightblade too. Just everything about ranged Nightblade sucks outside of their one burst ability. And imo it's not enough. Almost every other class has a reliable ranged spammable,stun, execute, or even ult. nightblade simply have none of that. I mean NBs have it but its not usable because of how underperforming it is.

The only reason and I mean only reason I even mentioned melee in the Title; is because the way that melee is noticeably stronger in every shape or form, everyone is immidiately going to shoot ranged blade down into the dirt. People have the mindset of *Well if I gotta deal with this from ranged then no, I dont want ranged buffed.* The Title says Ranged vs Melee.
So yea I am comparing it to melee, I think everyone would love Melee to be nerfed or toned down. But when they tone down Melee, its going to affect ranged even worse.

Most of the abilities that Melee blades use have a morph that can be used for ranged. Just the ranged ones suck.
FOR EXAMPLE,
Execute, the melee one is far more superior to the ranged one. I get it, the ranged one is RANGED but still its clonky from ranged and doesnt land properly, if you played nightblade you would understand.

Fear, their is a reliable stun but the ranged morph is absoloutely horrendous.

Merciless resolve, It only heals when in MELEE ranged.

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

your basically throwing your hands up and saying *Oh well, Melee nightblade is BiS, so just play that instead.*

Which is exactly the point of this thread. I want to play a different playstyle that was far more superior than melee for along time.

Well you can play those style but you're asking to do it your way. I don't have a problem with that other than the idea that this change wouldn't be thematically correct for a skill in the healing skill line.

No lie, I don't want to see awesome damage skills in healing skill lines especially just for the sake of making a playstyle when weapon skills do that.

Now if you ask me about converting concealed to a ranged spamable I'd be more on board and if that isn't doable then maybe the class just works that way?

I'm trying to see the side of others here but this is also asking me to give up on having better themes and organization in class skills and I don't agree with that.

Why do you keep saying its a healing skill line tho anyways?
Siphoning doesnt have to mean healing. Siphoning as in you take their health and make it yours. Which means you have to do damage, there is more damage abilities in the skill line. You probably don't play nightblade.

Also, might I add, there is healing skills in passive in every single nightblade tree. Not singled down to one.

You got me there, it's not a healing skill line but more so healing oriented. There's definitely damage in there but not anything that is a staple as a damage dealing skill other than the ultimate or the AOE which are very useful but don't scream ranged or high damage spamable.

More so to be honest the skill seems to just fit as is. Though I agree nobody uses it but I also don't see that many people using cripple as much even though it's a wonderful skill.

But its not even a healing oriented skill line. Shadow would be the closest to a healing skill line, but even in there you see damage abilities.

Your still proving my point when you say that there isn't much ranged going on in there outside of the spammable. Ranged has been nerfed to the ground man. We have nothing. Your saying you don't want to see change, is telling me you don't care how the player base thinks. I know personally like 10 people who want to play rangedblade but can't because of how underwhelming it is. But go off I guess.

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

your basically throwing your hands up and saying *Oh well, Melee nightblade is BiS, so just play that instead.*

Which is exactly the point of this thread. I want to play a different playstyle that was far more superior than melee for along time.

Well you can play those style but you're asking to do it your way. I don't have a problem with that other than the idea that this change wouldn't be thematically correct for a skill in the healing skill line.

No lie, I don't want to see awesome damage skills in healing skill lines especially just for the sake of making a playstyle when weapon skills do that.

Now if you ask me about converting concealed to a ranged spamable I'd be more on board and if that isn't doable then maybe the class just works that way?

I'm trying to see the side of others here but this is also asking me to give up on having better themes and organization in class skills and I don't agree with that.

Why do you keep saying its a healing skill line tho anyways?
Siphoning doesnt have to mean healing. Siphoning as in you take their health and make it yours. Which means you have to do damage, there is more damage abilities in the skill line. You probably don't play nightblade.

Also, might I add, there is healing skills in passive in every single nightblade tree. Not singled down to one.

You got me there, it's not a healing skill line but more so healing oriented. There's definitely damage in there but not anything that is a staple as a damage dealing skill other than the ultimate or the AOE which are very useful but don't scream ranged or high damage spamable.

More so to be honest the skill seems to just fit as is. Though I agree nobody uses it but I also don't see that many people using cripple as much even though it's a wonderful skill.

Also, I challenged one of the best Duelers in the game, just so I can get his opinion the matter. I asked him to make the best possible ranged blade he could. His response: No. (I asked him why) His Response summarized: Ranged Blade is out performed.

Bushido2513

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

your basically throwing your hands up and saying *Oh well, Melee nightblade is BiS, so just play that instead.*

Which is exactly the point of this thread. I want to play a different playstyle that was far more superior than melee for along time.

Well you can play those style but you're asking to do it your way. I don't have a problem with that other than the idea that this change wouldn't be thematically correct for a skill in the healing skill line.

No lie, I don't want to see awesome damage skills in healing skill lines especially just for the sake of making a playstyle when weapon skills do that.

Now if you ask me about converting concealed to a ranged spamable I'd be more on board and if that isn't doable then maybe the class just works that way?

I'm trying to see the side of others here but this is also asking me to give up on having better themes and organization in class skills and I don't agree with that.

Why do you keep saying its a healing skill line tho anyways?
Siphoning doesnt have to mean healing. Siphoning as in you take their health and make it yours. Which means you have to do damage, there is more damage abilities in the skill line. You probably don't play nightblade.

Also, might I add, there is healing skills in passive in every single nightblade tree. Not singled down to one.

You got me there, it's not a healing skill line but more so healing oriented. There's definitely damage in there but not anything that is a staple as a damage dealing skill other than the ultimate or the AOE which are very useful but don't scream ranged or high damage spamable.

More so to be honest the skill seems to just fit as is. Though I agree nobody uses it but I also don't see that many people using cripple as much even though it's a wonderful skill.

But its not even a healing oriented skill line. Shadow would be the closest to a healing skill line, but even in there you see damage abilities.

Your still proving my point when you say that there isn't much ranged going on in there outside of the spammable. Ranged has been nerfed to the ground man. We have nothing. Your saying you don't want to see change, is telling me you don't care how the player base thinks. I know personally like 10 people who want to play rangedblade but can't because of how underwhelming it is. But go off I guess.

Eh I mean I just think there are things that could be worked out that are way more in need of change. I think this change would just lead to more changes needing to be made. I mean if you're telling me a ranged spamable is all you need then that math doesn't add up.

I feel more like this rule would just be the start of changes being requested to make this play style work.

Bushido2513

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

your basically throwing your hands up and saying *Oh well, Melee nightblade is BiS, so just play that instead.*

Which is exactly the point of this thread. I want to play a different playstyle that was far more superior than melee for along time.

Well you can play those style but you're asking to do it your way. I don't have a problem with that other than the idea that this change wouldn't be thematically correct for a skill in the healing skill line.

No lie, I don't want to see awesome damage skills in healing skill lines especially just for the sake of making a playstyle when weapon skills do that.

Now if you ask me about converting concealed to a ranged spamable I'd be more on board and if that isn't doable then maybe the class just works that way?

I'm trying to see the side of others here but this is also asking me to give up on having better themes and organization in class skills and I don't agree with that.

Why do you keep saying its a healing skill line tho anyways?
Siphoning doesnt have to mean healing. Siphoning as in you take their health and make it yours. Which means you have to do damage, there is more damage abilities in the skill line. You probably don't play nightblade.

Also, might I add, there is healing skills in passive in every single nightblade tree. Not singled down to one.

You got me there, it's not a healing skill line but more so healing oriented. There's definitely damage in there but not anything that is a staple as a damage dealing skill other than the ultimate or the AOE which are very useful but don't scream ranged or high damage spamable.

More so to be honest the skill seems to just fit as is. Though I agree nobody uses it but I also don't see that many people using cripple as much even though it's a wonderful skill.

Also, I challenged one of the best Duelers in the game, just so I can get his opinion the matter. I asked him to make the best possible ranged blade he could. His response: No. (I asked him why) His Response summarized: Ranged Blade is out performed.

I mean it sounds like the person just wasn't interested in the test but that doesn't say what the results would be.

And again I doubt that this person would say if I just had a better ss I could do it lol

FoJul

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Well sorry you miss your playstyle and your skill. Don't see a whole lot clamoring for this or a good reason given the skill line it's in but so be it.

If you want to be swallow soul guy go build a full damage build like the previous guy mentioned and live with being squish but having the harder hitting ss again from the healing skill line where no other class has a similar and hard hitting spamable.

your basically throwing your hands up and saying *Oh well, Melee nightblade is BiS, so just play that instead.*

Which is exactly the point of this thread. I want to play a different playstyle that was far more superior than melee for along time.

Well you can play those style but you're asking to do it your way. I don't have a problem with that other than the idea that this change wouldn't be thematically correct for a skill in the healing skill line.

No lie, I don't want to see awesome damage skills in healing skill lines especially just for the sake of making a playstyle when weapon skills do that.

Now if you ask me about converting concealed to a ranged spamable I'd be more on board and if that isn't doable then maybe the class just works that way?

I'm trying to see the side of others here but this is also asking me to give up on having better themes and organization in class skills and I don't agree with that.

Why do you keep saying its a healing skill line tho anyways?
Siphoning doesnt have to mean healing. Siphoning as in you take their health and make it yours. Which means you have to do damage, there is more damage abilities in the skill line. You probably don't play nightblade.

Also, might I add, there is healing skills in passive in every single nightblade tree. Not singled down to one.

You got me there, it's not a healing skill line but more so healing oriented. There's definitely damage in there but not anything that is a staple as a damage dealing skill other than the ultimate or the AOE which are very useful but don't scream ranged or high damage spamable.

More so to be honest the skill seems to just fit as is. Though I agree nobody uses it but I also don't see that many people using cripple as much even though it's a wonderful skill.

Also, I challenged one of the best Duelers in the game, just so I can get his opinion the matter. I asked him to make the best possible ranged blade he could. His response: No. (I asked him why) His Response summarized: Ranged Blade is out performed.

I mean it sounds like the person just wasn't interested in the test but that doesn't say what the results would be.

And again I doubt that this person would say if I just had a better ss I could do it lol

Actually he did say that he wasn't using swallow soul. It wasn't worth the waste of time.

For you other comment though. Yeah, totally agree with what you said about buffing swallow soul wont fix it. It will help definitely, and of course its gonna need more changes. Yup yup and yup. Buffing swallow soul still wont be enough, to make it strong. But that's proving that ranged magblade is so far behind, its almost forgotten.

I mained what we call a Mage Blade for several years. In PvP and PvE. But overtime it has just gotten worse and worse with no attention. with the new psijic skill line in summerset it was making a comeback, until ranged started getting nerfed *unintentionally* because of melee blades. So ranged is in a really bad state and everyone is crying how strong melee blade is. So its going to happen again if ranged gets no attention.

When that happens, I'll be unsubbing, and losing all faith.