Would a bard class be good for the game??

Kallykat

Early creators of the series did play DnD and took inspiration from it even though I agree that the Morrowind and Oblivion skills don't particularly scream DnD bard. While I have played a bard in DnD and still rp as a bard with my main in ESO (with the personality and emotes), I can't see them releasing "bard" as a class in this game. That's not because it doesn't fit the lore--I think it could work fine in the ES universe. I just think it's too basic for this game. The devs are going to want to make the next class their own thing.

What I can see happening is a class related to music or sound as magic. As mentioned above, we have thaumavocalists in the game. We also have tonal architecture which was used by the Dwemer, not to mention dragon shouts. There is plenty of evidence in the lore to suggest that sounds can cause magical effects. I could see ZOS leaning into this to create a unique class using some kind of sound magic, which is probably the closest we would get to a bard.

P.S. Arguments regarding whether or not a class is part of the current lore really don't hold much weight in this game. The devs are free to add to the lore. Arcanists weren't a thing until now. Also, here's a brief article mentioning some other types of "sound magic:" https://gamerant.com/elder-scrolls-sound-tonal-magic-shouts-music-important-lore/

ghastley

no

New classes remain a bad idea. Class is the one thing you can’t change, so none of your existing characters could become one.

Skill line maybe, but I’m dubious about bard for that, too.

Vulkunne

no

Isn't that what a Warden is supposed to be?

Calastir

yes

Lumenn wrote: »

Bard has never been...

That's my point. Things change. Daggerfall Castle in Wayrest now:


And the original. Do you think the game should've stuck to its original graphics and lore?

Vulkunne wrote: »

Isn't that what a Warden is supposed to be?

Warden seems more similar to the D&D druid class.

Vulkunne

no

Calastir wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Bard has never been...

That's my point. Things change. Daggerfall Castle in Wayrest now:


And the original. Or do you think the game should've stuck to its original graphics?

Vulkunne wrote: »

Isn't that what a Warden is supposed to be?

Warden seems more similar to the D&D druid class.

Oh ok. Yeah that sounds good to me.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

no

Darkstorne wrote: »

Reminder to all the "bards don't fit in the TES universe!" folks, that the bard was a class selection option in both Morrowind and Oblivion. In Oblivion it even had class artwork:

Reminder to everyone who brings up the "Bard" class from TES4.

The so called "bard" class in TES4 is just a name for a collection of skills of the thief archtype. It's not a DnD bard, it's simply a thief-y character who uses speechcraft, mercandile, blade, block, alchemy and illusion magic. There's no singing or whatnot involved in combat.

Because Elder Scrolls doesn't have DnD bards. We can already be Elder Scrolls version of bard, which is either a musician who we often find in inns, or a thief who primary use melee, speechcraft and illusion magic.

The answer is no, a bard class would not be good nor fit. Also don't want more classes but more skillines instead.
Especially with how cartoony and out of place for the setting Halloween-Necromancer and Arcanist looks.

Zodiarkslayer

yes

The more, the merrier. 😊

Billium813

yes

I think the best way for ZOS to implement a Bard Class is as a Tonal Architect. They would use Tonal Resonance tools, Dwemer contraptions, and summoned crystals to create effects on the battlefield. They manipulate tonal frequencies to warp reality and bend time.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tonal_Architecture

LunaFlora

there are better options for new classes

Billium813 wrote: »

I think the best way for ZOS to implement a Bard Class is as a Tonal Architect. They would use Tonal Resonance tools, Dwemer contraptions, and summoned crystals to create effects on the battlefield. They manipulate tonal frequencies to warp reality and bend time.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tonal_Architecture

sounds fun, but that is nothing like a bard

BasP

there are better options for new classes

Billium813 wrote: »

I think the best way for ZOS to implement a Bard Class is as a Tonal Architect. They would use Tonal Resonance tools, Dwemer contraptions, and summoned crystals to create effects on the battlefield. They manipulate tonal frequencies to warp reality and bend time.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tonal_Architecture

I'd definitely prefer that over a "traditional" DnD bard class that play instruments myself. Like some others that have commented, I don't really think they'd fit ESO (and I can imagine it'd be jarring to hear multiple different songs from Bard players at the same time when you are doing World Events or World Bosses for example).

Billium813

yes

LunaFlora wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

I think the best way for ZOS to implement a Bard Class is as a Tonal Architect. They would use Tonal Resonance tools, Dwemer contraptions, and summoned crystals to create effects on the battlefield. They manipulate tonal frequencies to warp reality and bend time.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tonal_Architecture

sounds fun, but that is nothing like a bard

How so? Because the class isn't playing a Lute or dancing around? Sounds like you have a preconceived notion of what a "Bard" is.

An ESO Bard doesn't have to be so narrowly defined by the definitions of DnD. We have Red Guard Sword Singers, Bosmer Spinners, Dwemer Architects. Sword Singers would be cool and work well with a new Hammerfell release. Spinners are reallllly similar to Wardens, so they are kind of already done. I went with Tonal Architect because I like the aesthetic. Tonal frequencies can Charm enemies, instill buffs on allies, and conjure wards just like any DnD Bard can, all while channeling sound waves and forming all the posses you want.

spartaxoxo

yes

notyuu wrote: »

Given The Elder Scrolls lore, we can already play as a bard, so no need for them to be a new class
step 1: Make a character
Step 2: Use one of the many instrument emotes
Step 3: "Sing" worth a damn while playing
Step 4: That's literally it, you are being a bard, sure there's no magic, but this isn't D&D, in TES a bard is literally just a minsteral song person.

On a side note, a lute melee weapon skin would be neat

• All of the currently avaiable instrument emotes
• /Lute
• /Drum
• /Flute
• /keyharp
• /esraj
• /panflute
• /qanun
• /ragnarthered
• /playtinyviolin
• /trumpetsolo
• /lute (with the passion dancer personaility, gives you a harp)

There's sound magic in ESO, so it's not outside the realm of reason that a particular bard could use it. In fact, we meet a character who's magic is powered by her singing in High Isle.

It's not something that has been depicted in the games before, but it already has the foundational groundwork to make it work.

LunaFlora

there are better options for new classes

Billium813 wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

I think the best way for ZOS to implement a Bard Class is as a Tonal Architect. They would use Tonal Resonance tools, Dwemer contraptions, and summoned crystals to create effects on the battlefield. They manipulate tonal frequencies to warp reality and bend time.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tonal_Architecture

sounds fun, but that is nothing like a bard

How so? Because the class isn't playing a Lute or dancing around? Sounds like you have a preconceived notion of what a "Bard" is.

An ESO Bard doesn't have to be so narrowly defined by the definitions of DnD. We have Red Guard Sword Singers, Bosmer Spinners, Dwemer Architects. Sword Singers would be cool and work well with a new Hammerfell release. Spinners are reallllly similar to Wardens, so they are kind of already done. I went with Tonal Architect because I like the aesthetic. Tonal frequencies can Charm enemies, instill buffs on allies, and conjure wards just like any DnD Bard can.

i like it, i just don't see how it is like a bard
a spinner i can see the similarities because of their storytelling, but not a tonal architect.
seems nice though

Calastir

yes

Billium813 wrote: »

An ESO Bard doesn't have to be so narrowly defined by the definitions of DnD.

Sounds like a preconceived notion of D&D.

But if ESO really isn't as narrowly defined as all that, I wonder why so many of its fans object to reworking the bard class.

ArchMikem

there are better options for new classes

notyuu wrote: »

Given The Elder Scrolls lore, we can already play as a bard, so no need for them to be a new class
step 1: Make a character
Step 2: Use one of the many instrument emotes
Step 3: "Sing" worth a damn while playing
Step 4: That's literally it, you are being a bard, sure there's no magic, but this isn't D&D, in TES a bard is literally just a minsteral song person.

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Classes_(Oblivion)#Bard

So in Canon they exist, however it's less "fighting with song" and more being charismatic and intelligent, basically having the Mage's Guild Persuade perk unlocked out the gate. So yeah, I'm still not sure how much of an ESO Class a Bard can be, even if they are a thing in Elder Scrolls.

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Classes_(Oblivion)#Spellsword

Now that is what I want. One Hand & Magic.

TaSheen

yes

Dekrypted wrote: »

Give me a monk or give me templar buffs.

If a monk is put into the game, I'll take out a new credit card and max it out. I would NEVER play a bard. Just being 100% honest.

I'd never play a monk - yes, I had pandas in MoP, but NONE of them were monks. I'd also never use anything in the way of hand to hand combat.

Lumenn

there are better options for new classes

Dekrypted wrote: »

Give me a monk or give me templar buffs.

If a monk is put into the game, I'll take out a new credit card and max it out. I would NEVER play a bard. Just being 100% honest.

Same. I'll give it to all the "lore doesn't matter" folk in that I NEVER would have guessed arcanist when they announced a new class as monk/bard seemed the top requests(didn't even know "arcanist" was in the pool) but yeah, a monk class would probably be my new main.

DrNukenstein

Bard class, no

Bard system where you can learn songs that you can perform with a "guitar hero" like interface and collectible instruments similar to other game, yes.

FeedbackOnly

I just want new support skills to use an all the characters

Supreme_Atromancer

no

The concept/power fantasy has pretty strong heritage in fantasy literature and games.

Old School DnD was before my time, but I read (long ago) the original idea was a sort of jack-of-all-trades type deal with strong druidic conceptual ties. Various characters from Marion Bradley's Mists of Avalon fit the trope of mystical wanderers/diplomats/spies that work behind the thrones to manipulate things, and who's "power source" would be "pagan", "druidic", or (in ESO's language) "the Green". A focus on illusion and "enchantment" (in the old sense), nature magic, and, yeah, probably music would make sense.

Late 3rd DnD edition riffed off of this with the Fochlucan Lyrist, which was one of my favourite concepts of all time.

They in time became more associated with a sort of travelling buffoon-type thing who was all about music, and a lot of the roots were lost. Since then, they've always been controversial, with some people thinking the idea of a pantaloon-wearing, flute playing, performance-artist prancing between the sword blades while the uber-serious Gandalfs and edgy Elrics of Melnibone fought tooth and claw for survival. But a lot of other people just really love that goofiness.

Mechanically, they could pretty much do whatever they want, really- they're just numbers wrapped in whatever animation ZOS thinks is badass. But being particularly support-focussed seems like an intuitive path.

It feels like something I think that ZOS could make fit, and might be fun for people. But personally, I would be a bit disappointed to see a Bard when basic power fantasy concepts with deep Elder Scrolls heritage such as basic martial (non-magical) warrior/fighter or barbarian remain neglected.

I'm Ok for classes right now. I still focus on my sorcerer (since 2014), and would just love to see more tools at my disposal. Skill and weapon lines would be nice, including "unarmed" (spell charges?); and I'm still holding the torch high for Spellcrafting to fill some obvious power fantasy gaps.

Supreme_Atromancer

no

Billium813 wrote: »

I think the best way for ZOS to implement a Bard Class is as a Tonal Architect. They would use Tonal Resonance tools, Dwemer contraptions, and summoned crystals to create effects on the battlefield. They manipulate tonal frequencies to warp reality and bend time.

See, I actually like this idea. What I think could work, is that you make the power source broad enough that it could explain "tonal magic" and "enchantment", and then people would be free to use the same class for multiple related concepts.

I think its fair to say the Dwarves used tonal power as well as enchantment in their lofty designs. A later-day bard could be using broadly the same sort of stuff, even if its called different things. So my "bard" might be following in the footsteps of Kagrenac (using albeit very diminished secrets), or could have nothing to do with the Dwarves, just following a classic bardic tradition. Both are adventurers delving ancient dungeons, using sound magic and enchantment.

Calastir wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Bard has never been...

That's my point. Things change. Daggerfall Castle in Wayrest now:


And the original. Do you think the game should've stuck to its original graphics and lore?

Vulkunne wrote: »

Isn't that what a Warden is supposed to be?

Warden seems more similar to the D&D druid class.

The graphics needed to be improved, yeah. Old Wayrest's *design* at least had a distinct personality. Something something baby/bathwater.

Sparxlost

yes

TaSheen wrote: »

I played bards in the older games - they were kind of a sub-class of "rogue" IIRC. They were fun. I think they could be added with some tinkering.

Tornaad wrote: »

I just don't understand the draw to a bard or their role in combat at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2dCzFZ9qcM

Bards are natural scholars and so have knowledge of battle and how to cast spells.. It wouldnt be impossible for someone capable of being a bard to become a sort of Warrior poet or assassin mage or any sort of person useful in combat.... they have their talents and those talents are a thing that i BELIEVE would make them formiddable in battle.. I know you might see the typical bards of D&D as stupid weak or annoying but It really doesnt have to be the case... You could fight alongside a bard who never actually sings a tune and just uses cleverly worded spells or scrolls and potions...

zaria

there are better options for new classes

Bard would work better as an skill line as I see it

tohopka_eso

I'd rather they added it like a guild. You know mages guild, fighters guild... possibly bard guild and along that a monk guild instead of new classes.

Calastir

yes

tohopka_eso wrote: »

I'd rather they added it like a guild. You know mages guild, fighters guild... possibly bard guild and along that a monk guild instead of new classes.

Would be great if you could get quests there like "perform at this place" and advance your bardic skill line.