Civilian mode in Alliance war? Perhaps PVE Campaigns?

Its_MySniff

We could have something like Gtav. You can't interact with others while in passive, or do certain missions. That way, those scared or opposed to pvp can stroll around and see how boring cyrodill actually is. Also, they can finish delves and so on and see it isn't that impossible by experience. Yep, lets split the difference. Cheers.

me_ming

While your suggestions sounds good on paper, I don't think adding people to the queue is just going to help with Cyrodiil performance.

I think it's too hopeful for anyone to expect that it'd be easy to code in the game that these so-called "Civilians" you are proposing to be not counted in the campaign count. That would mean making them part of the server, but not. Doesn't really make sense, does it?

Furthermore, imagine if a huge part of PvE-only people come to these campaigns? Cyrodiil should BE a PvP area, and going in there you should expect PvP. So unless ZoS decide to make a version of Cyrodiil that IS PvE, I don't think this suggestion is very well-thought of. Like I said sounds good on paper, but honestly kidna naive.

gronoxvx

The servers (even though they were "upgraded") cant even handle the current pvp population at the best of times. So lets add more people to it? No thanks.

LunaFlora

that would be awesome. i have been wanting something like this for years.

the only quests in cyrodiil i want to do are the quests that do not involve killing people.

RaikaNA

Tarloch_S wrote: »

Civilian noun a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization. Maybe Citizen is a more appropriate tag as in game that's what you are before being forced as a volunteer?

Proposal noun a plan or suggestion, especially a formal or written one, put forward for consideration or discussion by others.
====== Not to be confused with: ======
Request noun an act of asking politely or formally for something.
Desired outcome: Inspire a discussion about the subject matters plausibility, feasibility and overall positive or negative impact it could have on the community.

Proposal: By adding a Civilian option you would be opening areas of the game to a population of players who choose not to experience them rather than be forced to endure a playstyle they do not enjoy and participate in a war they may not support. Currently you enter as a Citizen and are forced to become enlisted as a Volunteer (active duty with a military) and deemed the enemy by other alliances. All activities/rewards coded around the war (PVP) would be unavailable to a Civilian.

Would you be in favor of a Civilian mode in the Alliance War? Would opening the war to PVE civilian players take anything away from the PVP player? Why or why not?

Some thoughts:

1. Allow players to join a campaign (locked for it's entirety) as a Civilian.

2. A Civilian can still be attacked and killed by soldiers but the offender would be marked as a "War criminal" and suffer some form of critically severe punishment to dissuade such behavior.

3. "War criminal" - What should the punishment be if any?

4. How to prevent antagonists from posing as a Civilian and trying to gank Soldiers into a kill?

• Civilian tag should be Very distinguishable.
• Delayed damage? Perhaps it takes multiple attacks with almost no damage to start the kill process?
• Civilian can't cause damage to soldiers?

5. Combat between 2 players marked as "Civilian" would be controlled by the duel code currently in place.

6. Marked civilians have no alliance thus allowing travel through all areas?

• Maybe, quests that let you acquire travel papers to navigate zones not in your alliance origin?

I propose that we enable PvP in Overland Tamriel... I want to bring my bomber into Alik'r desert and start bombing Dolmen farmers.

TaSheen

RaikaNA wrote: »

I propose that we enable PvP in Overland Tamriel... I want to bring my bomber into Alik'r desert and start bombing Dolmen farmers.

No thank you. I'd never play this game again.

PrimeSeptim

Yes, that or just create a PvE only instance. It's not hard.

Then you can relax and explore the place, actually be able to take your time and listen to dialogue in peace with no anxiety. Players could still band together and siege keeps if they wanted versus the AI but they wouldn't earn alliance points or anything. It could just be a repeatable quest for some gold maybe. You could go the extra mile and make one of the NPCs within the keep a group boss level enemy so it's not too much of a walk in the park.

People who aren't interested in PvP will either stay out of Cyrodill, not fight back or if they did try to, probably drown in a sea of sweat anyway, so it's not really harming anyone except the people who get off on killing those types for easy AP or so they can feel better about themselves. I don't see the fun in it really. 'Haha i got you, i killed u n00b haha hurr durr, get rekt kid'...

I don't think it's fair for people to miss out on an entire zone, especially Cyrodill being as big as it is. It's not like in WoW where PvE'rs don't get to see explore the instanced Warsong Gulch or whatever. There's not much to see. But Cyrodill has quests, lore, fishing holes and of course, it's Cyrodill where TES IV was based. I'm sure many Oblivion fans would love to get in there and enjoy the scenery without fear.

Saying that 'oh but mimimi it's a PvP zone' is just a smooth brain response.

At least having a PvE instance would allow those unable or unwilling to PvP, the opportunity to explore the place and add many more hours of gameplay which they paid for.

At the moment, the only other option is to create an alt and enter below 50 PvP since it's pretty quiet and I find it more balanced/diverse. There are sometimes 1-2 unkillable twinks that not even 5-6 players can kill in there but also newer or less experienced players ranging from levels 10-49 so it's more fun and balanced. You never know what to expect.

If only there was a below 50 Imperial City...

In the over 50 campaigns you don't really stand a chance because everyone's basically the same level and rocking gold PvP gear and spend every chance they get in Cyrodiil.

Also, PvP is a secondary mode since this is still an Elder Scrolls game and shouldn't be dictated to by people who treat it as just another MMO or who haven't bothered to play the rest of the series. In my opinion (have to add that of course).

Xandreia_

Nope.

amig186

I appreciate the thought behind the idea, but a civilian wouldn't go into an active war zone in the first place. Aside from the skyshards and fishing, Cyrodiil really doesn't have all that much to offer in terms of pve, the daily town quests are extremely simple and most of the locations are in ruins. Just make a character in each alliance, do your side's town dailies, do your side's delves and that's it, you've seen everything.

Janni wrote: »

I like this idea. Can we also have a pacifist mode in games like Doom? I just want to walk around and not have to shoot any demons cause I don't really want to play the game at all.

You just described a competitive Doom speedrunning category. https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/UV_pacifist

Vhozek

I'm not saying people just want invincibility modes to do literally ALL content without obstacles but...

Muizer

ezmaye wrote: »

The biggest issue with requests like these is there is no thought around how this can be abused. All of sudden we'd have so many civillian spies running around, calling out what the other side is doing. Or a whole bunch of co-ordinated civilians taking the spots off of PVPers so their faction can bulldoze the map.

The best thing for PVE'ers to do is the choose a low pop campaign, stay away from keeps and avoid MYM. That's what I did when I started and eventually I braved PVP when keeps would light and now I am 100% pvp only.

There are so many builds online with gear that is easy to get or buy, and with lots of practice you'll end up getting the hang of it!

How about a civilian showing up in the middle of a siege or hiding in a ball group. Soon there would be no one left who isn't a 'war criminal'.

TwiceBornStar

I would like a story instance for Cyrodiil and Imperial city, so I can just fish, complete quests and explore these areas in peace. I mean, you're not going to stand around and read a lorebook when you're getting jumped by 5+ players all the time, am I right?

Of course I'm right!

Flameweaver1951

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

I would like a story instance for Cyrodiil and Imperial city, so I can just fish, complete quests and explore these areas in peace. I mean, you're not going to stand around and read a lorebook when you're getting jumped by 5+ players all the time, am I right?

Of course I'm right!

Absolutly agree with this. Would it take too much effort to create a PVE version of Cyrodiil and Imperial City. This would have no impact on the PVP community and allow PVE players to explore these locations.

dem0n1k

Counter-proposal : If you enter into Cyrodiil (which is ESO's dedicated PVP zone) & don't score damage on an enemy player within 30 minutes, you are transported to the centre of the Imperial sewers with the blue glow of Imperial Physique set, but none of the IP buffs. Your quest is to make it back to your base! Good luck adventurer!

Vrienda

It won't happen. It should. But it won't. I'd love to be able to have a character not alligned with any of the three Alliances or to have a PvE version of Cyrodiil and IC for exploration and questing and events sake but the PvPers want their easy kills so it won't happen.

Imo they should seperate PvPers and PvErs entirely. A civilian mode would just result in people trolling by hiding a civilian in a group of players to get other people flagged and punished.

Van_Winkle

And i want to came to any Dungeon and take loot without killing monsters and bosses...

NO. Cyrodiil is a PvP instance for PvP players. If i need some PvE stuff, i must create a PvE build with apropriate damage, find another players, who wants PvE and waste my time by farming Trials and Dungeons. You guys, who talks about all this strange things like "PvE-Cyrodiil" and "Civilian-modes" just want to take all cookies for free, without any work and risk.

Vrienda

SimonThesis wrote: »

A simpler solution is you just make a decent pvp build and run in cyrodiil with some friends also in pvp builds and have fun pvping.

People need to stop going into pvp areas solo without pvp builds and expecting good results. You would look at someone funny if they went into a vet trial solo without a build and then complained about it, its the same for pvp.

PvP builds change every damn patch and require resources and time not everyone has to keep up with them. The invincible tank PvP build I made for last year's midyear mayhem is useless now and the PvP build I made for -this- year cost me most of my transmutation crystals and a ton of rare ingredients and it still isn't too great outside of helping me in 1v1 vs a mid tier player.

Sure I could commit 200+ hours to learning PvP, gearing up and gradually getting better at the game but... I hate MMO PvP. It's the only thing in gaming that makes me genuinely angry. I just want my event tickets and OF COURSE I also need to get at least one style page from the Bomberbait imperial city bosses because this event never provides enough. This year being particularly egrigous. I think you need something like 90 tickets to get all the style pages this go around? Barely a third of that are available this event. Meaning you gotta grind, grind, grind.

And even then... ESO PvP is literally just 'oneshot the other guy before the other guy oneshots you'

Case in point: Fully PvP geared me dying to whatever the hell this was while fighting a boss. Killed me in-between boss attacks so it was the only thing on the death recap it hit so fast. My defensive buffs (Which I had up for tanking the boss) didn't matter.

TwiceBornStar

Van_Winkle wrote: »

NO. Cyrodiil is a PvP instance for PvP players. If i need some PvE stuff, i must create a PvE build with apropriate damage, find another players, who wants PvE and waste my time by farming Trials and Dungeons. You guys, who talks about all this strange things like "PvE-Cyrodiil" and "Civilian-modes" just want to take all cookies for free, without any work and risk.

I think you misunderstand. If there would be a story instance for Imperial City and Cyrodiil, they should make the PvP gear unavailable in those instances. I'd be happy with that. I can barely ever finish a quest in those areas, because it's usually me vs. the rest of the Covenant in there. Hard work? Try a construction job.

But you have a point!

TechMaybeHic

Jaimeh wrote: »

Would the civilian be counted in the population of the campaign? Would they take a queue spot from a PvPer? Would they make performance in Cyrodiil worse?

They would have to be because the lock is there for performance reasons, not participation reasons.

The we already have people log in alrs to listen to zone chat. Last thing we need are "civilians" stationed at various areas to watch movement

It's just a flat no. No matter how many times people ask thinking others just dnt understand them. NOBODY forces you to go to Cyrodiil. It's a choice because you chose to go in for something that requires you to do something you don't want to do. You don't have to have whatever it is

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Jaimeh wrote: »

Would the civilian be counted in the population of the campaign? Would they take a queue spot from a PvPer? Would they make performance in Cyrodiil worse?

Yes to everything you said here.

We already have "civilians" in Cyrodiil right now, they're sitting in keeps maybe repairing walls for dailies or in a keep waiting for an enemy to get close enough to hit them with a meatbag, (again for a daily). ESO already has enough people in Cryodiil sitting around taking up space and encouraging this behavior would only make the situation worse. Didn't ESO solve the lag problem by getting rid of the deer and lighting bugs? If you're bringing civilians in to Cryodiil, you might as well bring back the deer.

I don't play BG because I don't like it, so why would I expect BG rewards. ESO doesn't expect much from us in comparison to other MMOs (ie. BDO ) but you do have to put out a minimal effort to get some achievements and rewards.

#savecryodiildeer

starlizard70ub17_ESO

TaSheen wrote: »

If you want whatever from Cyrodiil, you'll have to risk the pvp. Except for fishing, the only place I go in Cyro or IC is DC home base because that's where I can buy Dawn Prism and Hakeijo. I quit pvp completely after I quit WoW and RIFT, and I won't be doing it ever again.

I'll be starting master angler on my newest account (AFTER MYM for obvious reasons). My previous 4 master anglers, I got through Cyro without any deaths at all. But if these two die while fishing, it's still no big deal. Other than fishing, there's not enough going on in Cyro for there to be any need to make a pve instance, or "citizen/civilian status". It's a huge empty zone. There's a few delves, a few dolmens, some 'town nostalgia" for those of us who've played (and I'm still playing) Oblivion. That's it.

Wait... you have 4 master anglers. ...somehow I feel unworthy to even read this post. Great respect to you.

TaSheen

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Wait... you have 4 master anglers. ...somehow I feel unworthy to even read this post. Great respect to you.

Thank you! Y'know, I found fishing in RIFT quite fun, not so much in WoW. And I was prepared to be totally bored with it here. But I actually find it not only restful but also fun! I highly recommend it as something outside of combat that's easy and doesn't take much intellect - 'cause I have days when that's the most important thing I need!

[Edit to snip requote]

Sarannah

Even as a PvE'er I wouldn't want a civilian mode, but PvP does need some massive changes in my opinion. Changes to make it more PvE friendly: Much longer battles(much higher health(1M+) and no healing), not getting killed in 0.4 seconds but also not be unkillable. Re-stealth should be disabled, either win or lose. PvE gear should all be viable in PvP. Unkillable guards at all PvE questturn-ins in Cyrodiil, who can see invis and do not tolerate violence(attack every player attacking another player). More and different easy-to-play builds like oakensoul was, so even lowly skilled players can hold their own. And all add-ons should be disabled in PvP areas, as they grant too many advantages over others(fairplay).

The current state of PvP can't really be called PvP, it is just a gank/slaughter-fest which feeds players to those with a taste for blood. And most of the time who CC's the other first wins, as by the time you break free(if it even works), you are already dead. Current PvP is just a cannonfodder and gankfest, and ZOS needs to change this quickly. PvP is no fun at all like this, except for a very very few.

Real PvP should really be PvP, and should be nothing like it is now.

gronoxvx

Vrienda wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

A simpler solution is you just make a decent pvp build and run in cyrodiil with some friends also in pvp builds and have fun pvping.

People need to stop going into pvp areas solo without pvp builds and expecting good results. You would look at someone funny if they went into a vet trial solo without a build and then complained about it, its the same for pvp.

PvP builds change every damn patch and require resources and time not everyone has to keep up with them. The invincible tank PvP build I made for last year's midyear mayhem is useless now and the PvP build I made for -this- year cost me most of my transmutation crystals and a ton of rare ingredients and it still isn't too great outside of helping me in 1v1 vs a mid tier player.

Sure I could commit 200+ hours to learning PvP, gearing up and gradually getting better at the game but... I hate MMO PvP. It's the only thing in gaming that makes me genuinely angry. I just want my event tickets and OF COURSE I also need to get at least one style page from the Bomberbait imperial city bosses because this event never provides enough. This year being particularly egrigous. I think you need something like 90 tickets to get all the style pages this go around? Barely a third of that are available this event. Meaning you gotta grind, grind, grind.

And even then... ESO PvP is literally just 'oneshot the other guy before the other guy oneshots you'

Case in point: Fully PvP geared me dying to whatever the hell this was while fighting a boss. Killed me in-between boss attacks so it was the only thing on the death recap it hit so fast. My defensive buffs (Which I had up for tanking the boss) didn't matter.

Change the PVP for PVE in your comment and its literally the same for those who hate PVE but need to do it for rewards such as sets, event tickets etc.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Sarannah wrote: »

Even as a PvE'er I wouldn't want a civilian mode, but PvP does need some massive changes in my opinion. Changes to make it more PvE friendly: Much longer battles(much higher health(1M+) and no healing), not getting killed in 0.4 seconds but also not be unkillable. Re-stealth should be disabled, either win or lose. PvE gear should all be viable in PvP. Unkillable guards at all PvE questturn-ins in Cyrodiil, who can see invis and do not tolerate violence(attack every player attacking another player). More and different easy-to-play builds like oakensoul was, so even lowly skilled players can hold their own. And all add-ons should be disabled in PvP areas, as they grant too many advantages over others(fairplay).

The current state of PvP can't really be called PvP, it is just a gank/slaughter-fest which feeds players to those with a taste for blood. And most of the time who CC's the other first wins, as by the time you break free(if it even works), you are already dead. Current PvP is just a cannonfodder and gankfest, and ZOS needs to change this quickly. PvP is no fun at all like this, except for a very very few.

Real PvP should really be PvP, and should be nothing like it is now.

PvP has a lot of balance problems that will never be fixed unless they completely rebuild the game, say in ESO2. No matter what ZOS told us nearly 10 years ago about Cryodiil and PvP, ESO is a PvE quest based MMO with a couple of small PvP areas as a side thing. The fact that ESO supports PvP play as much as they do shows that they care enough about the players to try and make life in Cryodiil better from time to time.

chessalavakia_ESO

Vrienda wrote: »

SimonThesis wrote: »

A simpler solution is you just make a decent pvp build and run in cyrodiil with some friends also in pvp builds and have fun pvping.

People need to stop going into pvp areas solo without pvp builds and expecting good results. You would look at someone funny if they went into a vet trial solo without a build and then complained about it, its the same for pvp.

PvP builds change every damn patch and require resources and time not everyone has to keep up with them. The invincible tank PvP build I made for last year's midyear mayhem is useless now and the PvP build I made for -this- year cost me most of my transmutation crystals and a ton of rare ingredients and it still isn't too great outside of helping me in 1v1 vs a mid tier player.

Sure I could commit 200+ hours to learning PvP, gearing up and gradually getting better at the game but... I hate MMO PvP. It's the only thing in gaming that makes me genuinely angry. I just want my event tickets and OF COURSE I also need to get at least one style page from the Bomberbait imperial city bosses because this event never provides enough. This year being particularly egrigous. I think you need something like 90 tickets to get all the style pages this go around? Barely a third of that are available this event. Meaning you gotta grind, grind, grind.

And even then... ESO PvP is literally just 'oneshot the other guy before the other guy oneshots you'

Case in point: Fully PvP geared me dying to whatever the hell this was while fighting a boss. Killed me in-between boss attacks so it was the only thing on the death recap it hit so fast. My defensive buffs (Which I had up for tanking the boss) didn't matter.

The Tri Focus is a destruction staff passive that when a person is using a lightning staff does 100% of the damage done to the primary target to secondary targets. As a result, if you hit a monster with low defenses and with all of the bonus heavy attacks don't get against players you can get significant numbers on players via the passive. Some of the people are likely deliberately killing other players using it but, I suspect many don't even realize they are doing it. It may not be intended behavior.

Keep in mind that the bosses in the sewers such as Hzu-Hakan also will drop the style pages from the Imperial City bosses. If you've got spare alts, dump a character where they spawn kill the boss and log for a few then repeat after it's been long enough for the boss to respawn.

If you are PC NA, toss me a pm with one of your character names and I'll probably be able to toss you one of the armor pages this week assuming I don't get hit with bad RNG.

Atrael7

Vrienda wrote: »

Case in point: Fully PvP geared me dying to whatever the hell this was while fighting a boss. Killed me in-between boss attacks so it was the only thing on the death recap it hit so fast. My defensive buffs (Which I had up for tanking the boss) didn't matter.

That, my friend, is a lightning staff heavy attack splash damage effect with the Empower buff (Tri Focus being the Destruction Staff passive in question). Ironically, you died to a PvE heavy attack build which should only hit monsters that hard but it just so happens that its been bugged for I think about the last year now, hitting on players for numbers far higher than it should as it ignores Battle Spirit and other mitigations. An unfortunate side effect of the latest changes to Empower. /shrug

SerasWhip

I wil never understand why some people are so afraid of confrontation in Cyrodiil.

coftysweet

SimonThesis wrote: »

A simpler solution is you just make a decent pvp build and run in cyrodiil with some friends also in pvp builds and have fun pvping.

People need to stop going into pvp areas solo without pvp builds and expecting good results. You would look at someone funny if they went into a vet trial solo without a build and then complained about it, its the same for pvp.

While I can understand both sides of the discussion, these kind of answers are like someone proposing to grow straight bananas because he cannot use bend ones, and someone suggesting to buy cucumbers instead. O.ö

I mean sure, there are a lots of reasons why straight bananas are inefficient or make current issues worse, but cucumbers are just no replacement.

Non metaphoric: If I am playing and PvE/RPG character, creating a PvP character is no help. I want that skill point / quest with the existiNg one, not on some scrappy new one. And when I am PvE focused, I won't become PvPler with character creation.

Still, I see the reasons why such a mode would make things worse and can understand, that PvP community is suffering enough already in ESO and won't take it kindly to suffer more for already preferred PvE players. Maybe some more help to understand each other better would be nice instead of "buy cucumbers" or "play somewhere else".

ArchMikem

Just open another Cyrodiil Campaign, but make it a PvP disabled questing zone and be done with it.