Update 35 Combat Preview

KlauthWarthog

Well, on the subject of "raising the metaphorical floor" and "lowering the metaphorical ceiling"...
You should look into 3 categories, not 2.

First are those who really don´t know how combat in this game works, and what they are supposed to be doing with their skills. For this category, you need to get them to learn the basics of it, and one of the ways you could accomplish that is by adding a daily "combat training" quest somewhere, which requires and instructs going the basic motion of combat - light-attack weaving a spammable, placing and keeping two dots. Replace the skill bar with something that includes the required skills for the duration of the quest, like you do with the vampire skill line quest. Completing the quest should not require perfection, but getting close to it should be rewarded as an optional.
There is no need to change anything about the combat system itself to help here, just give actual instructions and incentive to engage with the combat system.

Second are those who already know how combat works, actually practice it, but are falling short anyway (which, btw, include myself). Here, I am going to mostly parrot a suggestion already posted - reduce the variation on timers. As a main templar, my skills are a horrible timing mess - purifying light lasts 6 seconds, vampires bane lasts 16 seconds, unstable wall and shards last 10 seconds, and so on. Well, keeping everything up requires going through a lot of bar swapping, which gets horribly finicky real fast.
This problem is not restricted to skills, btw. Burning spellweave procs every 12s... but unstable wall lasts 10s, elemental blockade 14s, so on and so forth... you are either going to have to front-bar it (at a dps loss, there are better sets to front-bar), or juggle a lot of bar swapping just to keep it up. And, again, bar swapping is one of those things that explode as soon as you sneeze at the game´s latency.
So, to help this category, you should reduce the variation in duration and delays on sets and skills.

Third is where a lot of people will hate me. If you want to prevent the damage of the top-tier players from ballooning out of control, you will need to look into two main things:
One is how you approach sets. Some power creep is expected, but... are you sure that the spell/weapon damage on coral riptide makes actual sense? It is higher than Siroria, while being easier to maintain. Having the latest toy always blow the other toys out of the water just enables broken builds.
The second is how the damage scales. Those % bonuses? That is geometrical progression. This is what makes numbers go crazy in a hurry. Major Berserk on Kinras would not be such a problem if it added, say, 430 spell/wpn damage. That would be a linear progression. It is a problem because it makes stuff like Major Courage and the aforementioned Coral Riptide go wild.
Critical damage would not be a problem if it added a flat spell/wpn damage. It is a problem because it multiplies the other problems.
So, if you want to stop the damage from going wild, you are going to have to put some actual thought on the sets that you release, and you are going to have to give a serious, hard look on all those % damage multipliers you keep tossing around.

FluffyReachWitch

I am in Team “Please Raise Damage Over Time Resource Costs Instead of Lowering Damage”.

By doing so, that would:

• Keep DoT DPS roughly where it is now
• Give players with lower APM more time to keep up as intended
• Continue to reward careful resource management during combat

Because increasing duration but reducing damage lowers both the ceiling and the floor.

katorga

FluffyReachWitch wrote: »

I am in Team “Please Raise Damage Over Time Resource Costs Instead of Lowering Damage”.

By doing so, that would:

• Keep DoT DPS roughly where it is now
• Give players with lower APM more time to keep up as intended
• Continue to reward careful resource management during combat

Because increasing duration but reducing damage lowers both the ceiling and the floor.

Careful resource management is not "fun". Just saying.

But these changes are the first steps towards auto-attack and skill cooldowns. Order your rotation on the bar and click 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, in order every 5 seconds. That is where this is heading.

I_CraftwithPntButter

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings!

Weaving

Currently, to be truly effective in ESO’s combat, you need to learn to manipulate something that is known as “weaving,” which refers to the act of squeezing multiple actions into the global cooldown window. Doing so drastically increases your agency and output, and it is a staple of the game that we’ve come to embrace, as it helps our combat feel different and exciting to participate in once you learn the ins and outs. However, the impact of weaving leads to a massive gap in performance where players who cannot interact with it as effectively are left miles behind those who can. While this is partially unavoidable and an important part of what makes the mastery of ESO or any activity utilizing a similar system particularly satisfying, we want to do what we can to shorten that delta. The closer the gap between the low and high end, the easier it is to create content that can accommodate a wider audience, while making more natural progression points for those looking to improve. To this end, we’ve started to look at the impact that one of the most common and important forms of weaving has in ESO: Light and Heavy Attack weaving.

Coming in Update 35, we’re reducing Light and Heavy Attacks’ impact in damage production by adjusting their damage to deal a flat amount, regardless of stats. We have spent a considerable amount of time investigating the baseline experience that a new player would have with these attacks, using that as our starting point for how much damage they do moving forward

1) As a player I consider myself a "Jack of all trades and master of none". Meaning I play/dabble in all content : pve, pvp ,housing, overland etc and have done so since 2015. While I haven't mastered weaving, I get by with what I do and i'm ok with that, for what I need and do in game . However if I ever decided, to want to up my game. This change quite frankly disincentivizes from wanting to try. There's less "up" to try for. And at no point in time have I asked for that to change . Especially a change that impacts players who have applied , learned and even taught many others how to weave.

2) You say you've "spent time a considerable amount of time investigating the baseline experience that a new player would have with these attack". May I ask how ?

Of all the new players I've encountered , over the many years of eso playing that I've done. Light attacks has never come up in any convo I've seen in zone chat or had with said new players.They've asked every other question under the sun but that !

Where do I respect ? How do I upgrade my mount? Can I have (mat/item) for craft writ? How do I make gold ? Can you anyone help with a WB? Can I have a port ? How do I get to Sesame Street ( just checking if you're paying attention )
Even when I first started playing eso. LA weaving never crossed my mind until I joined a guild that was doing trial runs and I'm sorry to say , that hasn't changed despite all the changes that have taken place.

3) If you truly want to improve the experience of newer players, and shorten the delta ( btw some Greeks may take offense to you picking on the 4th letter of their alphabet) . Then maybe focus on creating a proper in game tutorial , with an npc and all the bells and whistles you have at your disposal . Give it a proper icon on the map , a stall , home or dwelling and have said npc go over the many aspects that this game has to offer . Even LA weaving. By having a Tut npc , players can learn the game and if they want to go over parts they skipped or forgot at a later date. They can. IT would certainly qualify as a quality of life addition to the game.

Dakkx

Imagine you play a sport irl.. you have years of practice and by now you’re very good but then the people in charge change the rules in order to make it easier for new contestants to win. 🤡

DrSlaughtr

Another thing I want to point out. The game is already segmented into levels to push you along to get better at your respective class and spec.

A big issue here is the game does a terrible job teaching you how to play. This means the onus on showing players the ropes falls on vet players. But once a low level player runs around for 6 months spamming crystal frag, they are less apt to learn. They instead get bad habits and stubborn.

A detailed combat tutorial that also includes weaving would solve a lot of the issue here.

The dungeons are for the most part all in order from easiest to hardest, with normal and vet versions with the same mechanics so you can practice.

The trials are also spread out across difficulty.

Meanwhile over in pvp land, you gave under 50, No CP and two CP campaigns for Cyrodiil. Now you could do something with under 50 to keep vet cheesers who just keep being new characters with the same equipment to lord over the new kids. For example what if you can't enter of you have any cp characters.

Then there are BGs which sort you based on mmr. Though that MMR should be account wide or, at the least, across classes.

Also if we weren't wanting the game to feel daunting to few players, maybe we shouldn't have raised the CP to 3600.

naga.

I guess Tales of Turdbute turned out to be a massive success considering that you've decided to change the game into a MMO card game with combat elements... for now. I don't dare to think what's next in stock, dialogue-box based combat? Can't wait until everything will become achievable for everyone as long as they unlock the 'Deploy a rabid RPer's assistant to shred the enemy' dialogue option...

In all fairness, your proposed changes will probably achieve something that resembles your desired result, but not in the way you're preaching. People, who have spent considerable time to reach the point where they can fairly comfortably clear everything and work towards trifectas as new content comes out, will just leave. In other words, you'll be thinning out the gap rather than reducing it because guess what... Billy Butterfingers is still going to be the carry in whatever he joins, unless he either puts in the hours to improve, same as those before him, or accepts being *** as his comfort zone and runs with people who are fine with that.

In the vast majority of cases, Billy and his kin who keep yapping about how certain things are not achievable for the average player, whilst also saying the game is not beginner friendly to make it look like they're heroes of more than one agenda, are full of ***. Most of the people who have, by now, more or less mastered how combat works were all beginners at some point, but they worked to improve and guess what, you can follow their footsteps. Hell... while watching content is no substitute for actual practice, you'll probably know what to look out for a bit better than those folks who's best bet back in the day were written guides on Tamriel Foundry. Anyhow, here's a simple process you can follow:

1. Find some content creator who knows what they're talking about. If they can clear hard content, chances are they know their ***, so they're worth watching. If they can't, they're just a bandana talking out of its ass. Pretend it doesn't exist or become one of the cool kids and get banned from their Twitch for asking them to share their uptimes.
2. Join a social guild that hosts plenty of dungeon and trial runs, with some practice vet runs. Stay there until you realise you progressed from being the carry to carrying everyone else to the point your back is about to snap. Now, I don't know how bad social guilds are these days, but if someone tries to tell you vMoL twins is one of the most difficult fights in the game after several weeks worth of wipes, abandon that ship immediately.
3. Join a guild which only does vet content. Get your clears and then abandon them like a used condom, taking whoever is not a complete imbecile or another Billy Butterfingers with you. There's rarely a point staying in these guilds because chances are the leaders who run their core groups are actually the ones dragging everyone down since their level plateaued long ago and they simply had nowhere to go.
4. Start your own group with the peeps you took with you and work on the easier trifectas you can do slow and steady. Then make your way into progressively harder ones or work on improving your times in the ones you're familiar with. Either way, chances are that sooner, rather than later, someone will start dragging the team down. Flick them. Unless they're selfish, they'll understand. If they're selfish and insist they're not *** despite evidence to the contrary, flicking them just became easier since now you have a trifecta of reasons to do so: they're ***, dim and selfish.
5. Carry on clearing stuff or, if you're feeling hungry, join a better team. Your logs from your previous group should be enough to earn you a few try-outs.
6. Keep working towards new targets... unless you crash out because the game starts feeling like a second job or affects you in some other undesirable way like a text from Prince Andrew.
7. Come back and find someone to play with at the sweatiness level you like and without making the same mistake as last time, provided the game hasn't gone to *** by then. I know... that sounds like a big ask given the circumstances.

As for players with disabilities, I feel you. As someone who works regularly with people with disabilities, I've seen how different engaging with the world, both physical and digital, can be for those suffering from impaired mobility, sight loss or other issues, including those that affect one's ability to maintain focus. However, as someone blind I worked with once told me 'Just because a blind lad joins an archery competition, doesn't mean the organisers should start gouging other participants' eyes'. I know it ain't an ideal solution, but you can always play Sorc to have a couple less buttons to bash.

FrancisCrawford

It's going to be hard to balance the various kinds of DoTs, such as:

• Single-target DoTs.
• Ground-based DoTs.
• Self-targeted pulsing DoTs.
• Pets (who are pseudo-DoTs).
• Status effect DoTs.

If they're balanced for long, stationary boss fights, they'll perform very differently in other kinds of situation.

Minno

Remathilis wrote: »

Everyone's so worried about "mah DPS" they aren't seeing the hidden benefit: less server lag.

A perfectly timed static rotation sends a large amount of variable packets at the server. Each LA/HA is individually calculated and sent, often along with the skill that is masking the animation. Additionally, each hot/dot press is another packet sent. This should reduce server strain as well

LA/HA static numbers should reduce calculation routines. Hots/dots lasting longer should reduce reapply spam. Less reliance on perfect weaving and constant bar swapping should also reduce packet flood lag. I would not be surprised if the servers handle better with these changes.

that is a good thought. Forgot they were still doing changes to help reduce the strain on their servers.

Undriel

Thank you for addressing this aspect of gameplay.
I really look forward to these changes as I feel they will make the game more accessible.

I got burned out while trying to parse at least 90k dps, but I couldn't go past 85k. I tried to master weaving for months, but the light attacks would never fire consistently for me, no matter the graphic settings, the hardware setup, the addons or the ping. No matter the amount of fine tuning and effort, I was never able to pinpoint the issue. This led my guildmates to see me as a slacker and I had to leave them for the sake of my own sanity. I was exhausted and disappointed. I wasn't enjoying the game anymore.

"the impact of weaving leads to a massive gap in performance where players who cannot interact with it as effectively are left miles behind those who can"

Well said. Honestly, can't wait for the elitists to stop bashing people about their Combat Metrics.

P.S. I play Nightblade, and skills like Incapacitating Strike and Merciless Resolve would mess up my rotation big time. Merciless Resolve resetting and refreshing instead of firing is also a contributing factor to me getting frustrated over my ex guild's high requirements.

Pevey

Undriel wrote: »

Thank you for addressing this aspect of gameplay.
I really look forward to these changes as I feel they will make the game more accessible.

I got burned out while trying to parse at least 90k dps, but I couldn't go past 85k. I tried to master weaving for months, but the light attacks would never fire consistently for me, no matter the graphic settings, the hardware setup, the addons or the ping. No matter the amount of fine tuning and effort, I was never able to pinpoint the issue. This led my guildmates to see me as a slacker and I had to leave them for the sake of my own sanity. I was exhausted and disappointed. I wasn't enjoying the game anymore.

"the impact of weaving leads to a massive gap in performance where players who cannot interact with it as effectively are left miles behind those who can"

Well said. Honestly, can't wait for the elitists to stop bashing people about their Combat Metrics.

P.S. I play Nightblade, and skills like Incapacitating Strike and Merciless Resolve would mess up my rotation big time. Merciless Resolve resetting and refreshing instead of firing is also a contributing factor to me getting frustrated over my ex guild's high requirements.

There are plenty of good guilds where you can join any non-HM vet trial run with 70k+ dps. Your 85k is more than enough. After these changes go through, you might be more like 75k, which is cutting it really close.

WrathOfInnos

Undriel wrote: »

Thank you for addressing this aspect of gameplay.
I really look forward to these changes as I feel they will make the game more accessible.

I got burned out while trying to parse at least 90k dps, but I couldn't go past 85k. I tried to master weaving for months, but the light attacks would never fire consistently for me, no matter the graphic settings, the hardware setup, the addons or the ping. No matter the amount of fine tuning and effort, I was never able to pinpoint the issue. This led my guildmates to see me as a slacker and I had to leave them for the sake of my own sanity. I was exhausted and disappointed. I wasn't enjoying the game anymore.

"the impact of weaving leads to a massive gap in performance where players who cannot interact with it as effectively are left miles behind those who can"

Well said. Honestly, can't wait for the elitists to stop bashing people about their Combat Metrics.

P.S. I play Nightblade, and skills like Incapacitating Strike and Merciless Resolve would mess up my rotation big time. Merciless Resolve resetting and refreshing instead of firing is also a contributing factor to me getting frustrated over my ex guild's high requirements.

I fail to see how your light attack damage getting reduced is beneficial. It will likely drop your 85k DPS down to around 80k and make difficult content and your 90k goal less accessible.

Sure it may knock your 90k ex-guildies down to 83k, but that doesn't really benefit anyone. If anything they'll need to be more strict with their requirements to clear the same content.

Fennwitty

Seems just more and more of a reason to BALANCE PVE AND PVP SEPARATELY.

But again, what do the players know?

Sync01

This post reads like someone made a calculation that it would be more cost-efficient to have players that prefer non-combat features, and someone else decided that fixing the performance issues was too expensive.

All I've been hearing since this was published is how this was the death blow for the "high end" (as called here). No one likes being told that skills we've spent years developing matters less and less. It is not rewarding that combat should now require less skill, nor is it rewarding that any action we take to get better ourselves is viewed as undesirable because we that now means we're increasing the skill gap.

There has to be a skill progression between low end and high end for improvement to feel rewarding.
Unlike what this post suggests, I don't keep my eyes glued to my action bar. Did I do it when I started playing? Yup.
There is no such thing as perfect players, all of us can improve even if it's just by making sure we hit one more light attack, and that's what keeps us going. Progression is not linear, nor do you go from a new player to setting world records within a few months. Many players never get anywhere close even after thousands of hours, and that's not something you can change.

Let's not forget that the entire trial community is run by players. It's people like me and many others who make sure that you actually have a high end to target by organising training runs, progression groups, creating all sorts of guides and content so players who want to improve have the option of doing so, and quite frankly spending an enormous amount of time trying to make sure that our community stays alive. It would be nice if you didn't spit in our face for it.

ShadowProc

Stop trying to spin the narrative. No feature is changing. They are reducing damage.

Elitists are self identifying themselves by crying the sky is falling because of lowering LA damage which was way to high.

brylars

I would like to know when the combat devs are going to move on from the base game and add more content. Maybe a new map for battle grounds? A new trial?

I am one of those players these changes are supposed to help. I can't help but feel like I and others like me are going to be blamed for changes that "punish" veteran players who have put the time in to learn weaving and other skills related to combat. I never asked for this kind of change in the game play. I don't care there are "god-like" beings among the vet players in this game. There are in every MMO RPG.

I have heard of this issue though before. a couple of years ago there was an attempt to adjust the APM (actions per minute) and the community shot it down. This seems like a veiled attempt to address it again.

Of course we as player community must just take it right? This game belongs to Bethesda/Zenimax and the all-mighty Microsoft. There has been a lot of focus on the new players but no one at ZOS has offered to help new players to understand the mechanics of the game. That duty has always fallen on the more seasoned players. ZOS and Bethesda have always relied on Vet players and modders to change up their games, improve performance, add stories, and teach new players the ropes. I have never seen the company provide tutorials that teach the new player how to play. Also where are the attempts at retention of the vets? I have seen content creators on social media, who have covered the Elder Scrolls franchise for years, slowly move away from Elder Scrolls and focus on new franchise games, games which are winning prizes Elders Scrolls games used to win.

The catch phrase has been "play how you want," but no one from the company shows the new player how. No tutorial. So we turn to other players and attempt to replicate how THEY play the game. We fumble around until we find our way but it takes time.

These adjustments are not going to close the gap. Never in any situation does bringing down the top people ever bring up the bottom people. I don't know why people think it does. Maybe the illusion? Anyway. Quit fussing over the base game and move on to content creation.

The card game is nice but don't do that again. Time to add content with rich lore and a timeless story.

MindOfTheSwarm

If damage needs to be brought down the solution is simple.

1. Reduce Light Attack Damage.

2. Reduce base Critical Damage to 25%.

Nothing else is needed. Reducing DoT damage just pushes everyone to focus on dealing as much direct damage as possible.

I actually think that my Frost DD will be better off running Frostbite, Spider Cultist and Master Staff to just put everything into Frost Reach and forget about everything else.

remosito

Dakkx wrote: »

Imagine you play a sport irl.. you have years of practice and by now you’re very good but then the people in charge change the rules in order to make it easier for new contestants to win. 🤡

they still wont win. they'll just loose by less faster...

drsalvation

HydroPotato wrote: »

Of course, this will be annoying to me because weaving is a really fun aspect to the game.
However, on the plus side, I look forward to tanks' parses increasing! It would be really cool to see tank weave resulting in some real nifty damage contribution in group gameplay. A tankcro (Necromancer Tank) giving the group Empowering Grasp and then using it to parse hard... mm, chef's kiss

this, there's no reasons for tanks being unable to deal any sort of significant damage, but there's an awful lot of people claiming that tanks aren't supposed to do so. With that logic, DPS shouldn't block or roll dodge because their job is to deal damage, not take or avoid it.

I still just wish power slam would be a tank skill instead of a DPS skill, revert back to stacks of resentment and scale to HP or Armor.

MindOfTheSwarm

drsalvation wrote: »

HydroPotato wrote: »

Of course, this will be annoying to me because weaving is a really fun aspect to the game.
However, on the plus side, I look forward to tanks' parses increasing! It would be really cool to see tank weave resulting in some real nifty damage contribution in group gameplay. A tankcro (Necromancer Tank) giving the group Empowering Grasp and then using it to parse hard... mm, chef's kiss

this, there's no reasons for tanks being unable to deal any sort of significant damage, but there's an awful lot of people claiming that tanks aren't supposed to do so. With that logic, DPS shouldn't block or roll dodge because their job is to deal damage, not take or avoid it.

I still just wish power slam would be a tank skill instead of a DPS skill, revert back to stacks of resentment and scale to HP or Armor.

It already does scale with your Armor.

keto3000

Tamriel definitely benefits from MORE MENTORS willing to help out newer/returinging players!

EnerG wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

You know from 1T to now we've seen change after change to combat and the gap between the floor and the ceiling never really shrinks. it actually increases Like at some point some you guys are gonna have to accept that players who are doing low damage are largely doing so because they don't see any reason to improve or they're not doing content that warrants it.
Yes some people have disabilities and no odds are the LA bow spammer Argonian in heavy armour in your random vet isn't disabled You can make whatever change you want, hybridise how much ever you want, nerf/buff how much ever you want players at the low end will NEVER stop being low end unless they want to.

I agree with the gap not changing much, but i also dont think alot of casual players realise how low they really are on the ladder, i myself am disabled and for the longest time i thought my dps was fine, turn out i was parsing 15k (LOL) now im up to 70k thats personally perfect by me, but the average player may not even understand the numbers. And the games tutorial really just gives the basics. Let players discover it if they want too.

We also do a terrible job of fostering curiosity in new players, for the longest time i was scared to do any content cause zone was belittling everything that wasnt meta (weve gotten better this was years ago) but depending on when and where a new player starts the community can be VERY offputting.

colossalvoids

Pevey wrote: »

Undriel wrote: »

Thank you for addressing this aspect of gameplay.
I really look forward to these changes as I feel they will make the game more accessible.

I got burned out while trying to parse at least 90k dps, but I couldn't go past 85k. I tried to master weaving for months, but the light attacks would never fire consistently for me, no matter the graphic settings, the hardware setup, the addons or the ping. No matter the amount of fine tuning and effort, I was never able to pinpoint the issue. This led my guildmates to see me as a slacker and I had to leave them for the sake of my own sanity. I was exhausted and disappointed. I wasn't enjoying the game anymore.

"the impact of weaving leads to a massive gap in performance where players who cannot interact with it as effectively are left miles behind those who can"

Well said. Honestly, can't wait for the elitists to stop bashing people about their Combat Metrics.

P.S. I play Nightblade, and skills like Incapacitating Strike and Merciless Resolve would mess up my rotation big time. Merciless Resolve resetting and refreshing instead of firing is also a contributing factor to me getting frustrated over my ex guild's high requirements.

There are plenty of good guilds where you can join any non-HM vet trial run with 70k+ dps. Your 85k is more than enough. After these changes go through, you might be more like 75k, which is cutting it really close.

Won't be pointing directions but even can join trifecta progs with that DPS, but that's more about being a decent human being etc. rather than having "100k". And being rejoiced because supposedly some "elitists" would be "put in place" isn't cutting it.

Some are underestimate that raiding for them will actually become harder. If everyone in a team will lose some percentage of damage it would inevitably turn their eyes to the lowest contributing players now, that we were painlessly able to bring on for any runs.

keto3000

Light Attack Weaving (LAW) should not define player skill, IMHO, so I applaud @ZOS_Gilliam & the combat dev team for addressing this.

Good players aren't 'gud" because they put hours into light attack weaving. They are good because they have put the time & effort into understanding their builds, class, and have the kind of situational awareness and fast action/reaction times that comes with experience and comitment.

Agility with a keyboard/mouse/controller shouldn't' be the measure of beginner vs advanced player.

Cheers

maxjapank

ShadowProc wrote: »

Stop trying to spin the narrative. No feature is changing. They are reducing damage.

Elitists are self identifying themselves by crying the sky is falling because of lowering LA damage which was way to high.

And it's always the same players who continually criticize anyone who might like this change. It borders on bullying.

Sync01

Criticising the changes and the direction ZOS has decided to go, does not equal criticising players who like the changes.

We are allowed to express our views and talk about the negative consequences we see coming. This is more than just lowering damages, this is lowering the skill required while talking about how the "low end" will benefit from targeting the "high end".

maxjapank

Sync01 wrote: »

Criticising the changes and the direction ZOS has decided to go, does not equal criticising players who like the changes.

We are allowed to express our views and talk about the negative consequences we see coming. This is more than just lowering damages, this is lowering the skill required while talking about how the "low end" will benefit from targeting the "high end".

Of course. By all means. But not everyone is choosing to express their views to ZOS. They instead attack others who see things differently, even those who just say "I like this change." Not to mention the abundance of "get gud" elitist attitudes.

You don't need to justify your dissatisfaction to me or anyone else.

Sync01

maxjapank wrote: »

Sync01 wrote: »

Criticising the changes and the direction ZOS has decided to go, does not equal criticising players who like the changes.

We are allowed to express our views and talk about the negative consequences we see coming. This is more than just lowering damages, this is lowering the skill required while talking about how the "low end" will benefit from targeting the "high end".

Of course. By all means. But not everyone is choosing to express their views to ZOS. They instead attack others who see things differently, even those who just say "I like this change." Not to mention the abundance of "get gud" elitist attitudes.

You don't need to justify your dissatisfaction to me or anyone else.

To be fair I've seen a lot of people attack those who don't like the changes as well. Apparently we're all elitist for saying that skill isn't something you get for free.

FirmamentOfStars

maxjapank

Sync01 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Sync01 wrote: »

Criticising the changes and the direction ZOS has decided to go, does not equal criticising players who like the changes.

We are allowed to express our views and talk about the negative consequences we see coming. This is more than just lowering damages, this is lowering the skill required while talking about how the "low end" will benefit from targeting the "high end".

Of course. By all means. But not everyone is choosing to express their views to ZOS. They instead attack others who see things differently, even those who just say "I like this change." Not to mention the abundance of "get gud" elitist attitudes.

You don't need to justify your dissatisfaction to me or anyone else.

To be fair I've seen a lot of people attack those who don't like the changes as well. Apparently we're all elitist for saying that skill isn't something you get for free.

Well, yeah. It is that attitude. Cause players are not generally saying that skill shouldn't matter. It's just that LA or animation canceling shouldn't matter as much as it does. I've even see a few saying that ESO needs to revert to where mechanics mean more than out-dpsing the mechanic. Skill can mean different things to different players.

Sync01

maxjapank wrote: »

Well, yeah. It is that attitude. Cause players are not generally saying that skill shouldn't matter. It's just that LA or animation canceling shouldn't matter as much as it does. I've even see a few saying that ESO needs to revert to where mechanics mean more than out-dpsing the mechanic. Skill can mean different things to different players.

Getting better at something requires effort, there is no other way to put it. If you're not willing to put in the effort to improve, that's on you. The issue is that most people who call other elitist treat skill as something you magically get and how dare someone make an effort.

The skill gap does not exist because of weaving, and regardless of what you do you will always have a low end and a high end. A "high end" dd will do 100k+ dps, and even if as much as 20% of that is due to light attacks, there is still a huge difference compared to a "low end" dd who does maybe 20k on a good day.

I agree that we need more content where mechanics play a bigger part, and we have gotten more mechanics in recent content, but attacking the end game community is not the way to do it.