Update 35 Combat Preview

StamPlar_1976

Lol. Let's be real. With all the crappy changes to combat and classes since 2018 and y'all still haven't left yet, I'm pretty sure all of you will still be here once these go into effect. There isn't anything that ZOS can do that will get y'all to quit. So just sit back and enjoy the ride cause none of y'all are going anywhere lol.

TechMaybeHic

You know what would really make the game more accessible? Rather than changing combat, how about making it a bit more palatable for experienced players to take in newer.

From a PvP perspective; you have made it to where group slots are more limited so carrying more experienced players is preferred. You also have made it to where being anywhere near a lower skilled and/or less knowledge player will get you blown up by them dying.

Kind of discourages bringing them a long and teaching. I realize there was a lot intended to blow up zergs, but the zergs are still there and always have been much easier to deal with than the 12 man coordinated groups that actually make use of those effects to slaughter newer players.

Arphalas

Bravo ZOS for taking a step in the right direction. Weaving is becoming way out of hand and while I understand some may enjoy clicking away like it's Cookie Clicker, it would be cooler if we could actually have some decent attacks on the forefront.

So this is a great start, but it could be better. Adding deminishing returns per light attack within a set amount of time would be a great option. Making each following LA slightly less powerful.

This would invite creativity back into combat and bring some sorely needed fresh wind in an otherwise very stale endgame.

TBois

Why not make an in game tutorial that teaches the finer points of combat. These changes still don't touch many things that are holding super casuals back, like penetration and crit dmg caps, how dmg modifiers interact with each other, resistance percentage reduction values, dodges and block canceling, light attack weaving still,

ZOS will always have the problem they have been trying to address for years since they removed dynamic ult gen unless they actually try and teach their players their *** game. I was blown away when I tried FFXIV and they had me go through a combat tutorial before I started dungeons.

As with all the other changes zos has made to lower the ceiling, there proposed changes won't do ***.

FrankonPC

Dayth wrote: »

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Currently, to be truly effective in ESO’s combat, you need to learn to manipulate something that is known as “weaving,” which refers to the act of squeezing multiple actions into the global cooldown window. Doing so drastically increases your agency and output, and it is a staple of the game that we’ve come to embrace, as it helps our combat feel different and exciting to participate in once you learn the ins and outs. However, the impact of weaving leads to a massive gap in performance where players who cannot interact with it as effectively are left miles behind those who can. While this is partially unavoidable and an important part of what makes the mastery of ESO or any activity utilizing a similar system particularly satisfying, we want to do what we can to shorten that delta. The closer the gap between the low and high end, the easier it is to create content that can accommodate a wider audience, while making more natural progression points for those looking to improve. To this end, we’ve started to look at the impact that one of the most common and important forms of weaving has in ESO: Light and Heavy Attack weaving.

Coming in Update 35, we’re reducing Light and Heavy Attacks’ impact in damage production by adjusting their damage to deal a flat amount, regardless of stats. We have spent a considerable amount of time investigating the baseline experience that a new player would have with these attacks, using that as our starting point for how much damage they do moving forward. The aim is to not harm the low-end experience, and target only the higher end. In doing so, we hope to reduce the difference of damage potential in a way that retains the satisfaction of learning to weave, where the impact is still felt, but to a much less degree than before.

For reference, in many of ESO’s high-end experiences and activities, the average build sees roughly 15–20% of their overall damage coming from Light Attacks alone, which is a huge contribution to the delta of power we see. While testing these adjustments internally, we’ve seen a reduction of 6–11% to overall damage, which allows for a much smaller and healthier gap while still retaining the sense of mastery and expression of that mastery with weaving.

With this adjustment, we’ll also be making a significant number of changes to item sets, passives, and buffs to ensure classes remain balanced in damage production, while also trying to do a better job allowing builds to amplify these actions (we’ve heard your cries, Heavy Attack build lovers, and we want better for you) without introducing unhealthy gameplay between PvE and PvP.

Just remove weaving: it's a bug not a feature.

it's pretty clear at this point if they could they would. the amount of disdain zenimax has for their unique combat system is truly amazing to me.

Turtilla

One more voice from a relatively end-game player - and I really hope you listen to us when it comes to things that pertain to us; I don't know enough about pvp to say anything about that, but for casual players these changes will likely not even be noticed.

The major issue the game has is that it does not teach new players how to play it. The combat tutorial is very, VERY underwhelming and does not prepare one for what comes after AT ALL. A good tutorial on buffs, dots, rotation, weaving would probably help much more with whatever you are doing to weaving now. Those players most affected by the "skill gap" are the ones who don't weave so it won't help them.

Another thing is you designing new content (i.e. vDSR hardmodes) around the current DPS. Nerfing it (even by those 6-11%) means that some content may not be possible to complete at all. It does not feel good to be handed something and then have it taken away from you. Don't punish good players for getting good please! And if you want to lower the DPS, adjust the content. In addition, you continually add sets that require the player to weave (Relequen, Kinras') - so it feels like there is a bit of a love-hate relationship for this mechanic. I personally think it would be better to just embrace it and, as mentioned before, teach new players how to do it.

Finally, from any attempt at removing/altering weaving, hybridization, etc., I get the vibe that you consider it bad that people have put time and effort into mastering the game's mechanics. It feels like all that matters is other players feeling good because they don't need to put any effort into improving their skills to complete more difficult content. This feels disrespectful towards those veteran, end-game players who are really devoted to that.

Hopefully you won't think I am breaking any rules with anything I said here. I do love the game, I have spent countless hours in it, and I think I have at least some authority/experience to say what I said here cheers!

Hayblinkin

While I'm happy to see people who enjoy beating on computers get their NUMBER nerfed, I can't help but feel that this will help people who spam heals and run around in some sort of ball in Cyrodiil (you know the types) become even more invincible.

My only real gripe with this proposed change is that once again I will have to RETHINK and RETOOL EVERY BUILD I have. Just once I'd appreciate logging on after a major patch and not having to spend the first day dealing with sweeping combat changes. It takes time away from me enjoying the game, something I don't get to do very much anymore because of my career.

Turtilla

Turtilla wrote: »

One more voice from a relatively end-game player - and I really hope you listen to us when it comes to things that pertain to us; I don't know enough about pvp to say anything about that, but for casual players these changes will likely not even be noticed.

The major issue the game has is that it does not teach new players how to play it. The combat tutorial is very, VERY underwhelming and does not prepare one for what comes after AT ALL. A good tutorial on buffs, dots, rotation, weaving would probably help much more with whatever you are doing to weaving now. Those players most affected by the "skill gap" are the ones who don't weave so it won't help them.

Another thing is you designing new content (i.e. vDSR hardmodes) around the current DPS. Nerfing it (even by those 6-11%) means that some content may not be possible to complete at all. It does not feel good to be handed something and then have it taken away from you. Don't punish good players for getting good please! And if you want to lower the DPS, adjust the content. In addition, you continually add sets that require the player to weave (Relequen, Kinras') - so it feels like there is a bit of a love-hate relationship for this mechanic. I personally think it would be better to just embrace it and, as mentioned before, teach new players how to do it.

Finally, from any attempt at removing/altering weaving, hybridization, etc., I get the vibe that you consider it bad that people have put time and effort into mastering the game's mechanics. It feels like all that matters is other players feeling good because they don't need to put any effort into improving their skills to complete more difficult content. This feels disrespectful towards those veteran, end-game players who are really devoted to that.

Hopefully you won't think I am breaking any rules with anything I said here. I do love the game, I have spent countless hours in it, and I think I have at least some authority/experience to say what I said here cheers!

To add to this - if you want to nerf LAs/weaving, please make sure that the overall damage does not drop. That is a conclusion to the part on vDSR - it'd suck if it were nearly impossible to complete for even quite good players and the opposite of what you are aiming for, I feel. So if you want to lessen the impact of LA weaving and instead buff other stuff, go for it! But that is not what I understood you were planning to do.

lopacaESO

It seems to me like the main audience for you guys is new players, while veteran players are the ones who don't deserve your attention anymore. Well, veteran players have been very welcoming and helpful to new players that wanted to learn the game. Meanwhile, most new players, although bring in some quick cash, they just leave after a while.

I've helped tons of new players over the years...here are some common new player mistakes i've seen:
-Not using any food
-Not using potions
-Not putting glyphs on their gear (like weapon/spell damage)
-Wearing heavy armor as a dps, because it's the only one with passives (why do we still need to equip 3 pieces of the same armor to see the passives? is that noob friendly?)
-They don't know they can have 2 weapon bars.
-Having a messy bar, with skills they don't need...end up spamming the same skill over and over anyway
-Not wearing complete sets (a bunch of different set pieces that don't complete each other)
-Not knowing that if you upgrade your weapons, you increase your damage (cp500 still using purple weapons...)

Weaving is their last damn problem... Guess what, out of the players i've helped, the ones that wanted to be helped enjoyed the game much more (especially after they learned to weave and felt the difference) and continued playing, while the ones that wanted to play in "their own way" stopped playing the game and gave up. Because "i'm not getting skills that make me stronger" or "combat is boring"...while spamming the same 1 skill.

What you need is a better tutorial! Tips and tricks(could be done by the community with an upvote system) like changing the weapon swap button to your mouse side buttons or something else...most people won't be able to swap with the default and don't even think about using a different key for it.

You have already tried to nerf the weaving a while ago, or nobody else remembers the other "light and heavy attack change"... It just doesn't work. The gap ain't gonna change because veterans adapt to it with the knowledge they have, while new players get nerfed indirectly. Do you even know how many new players just spam light attacks? What's the gap gonna be like for them? This update will hurt everyone. Very, very, very badly thought. Don't you guys have something else to do with your resources? other than updating all sets and skills every time there is a BRILLIANT idea at the board table?

Turtilla

lopacaESO wrote: »

It seems to me like the main audience for you guys is new players, while veteran players are the ones who don't deserve your attention anymore. Well, veteran players have been very welcoming and helpful to new players that wanted to learn the game. Meanwhile, most new players, although bring in some quick cash, they just leave after a while.

I've helped tons of new players over the years...here are some common new player mistakes i've seen:
-Not using any food
-Not using potions
-Not putting glyphs on their gear (like weapon/spell damage)
-Wearing heavy armor as a dps, because it's the only one with passives (why do we still need to equip 3 pieces of the same armor to see the passives? is that noob friendly?)
-They don't know they can have 2 weapon bars.
-Having a messy bar, with skills they don't need...end up spamming the same skill over and over anyway
-Not wearing complete sets (a bunch of different set pieces that don't complete each other)
-Not knowing that if you upgrade your weapons, you increase your damage (cp500 still using purple weapons...)

Weaving is their last damn problem... Guess what, out of the players i've helped, the ones that wanted to be helped enjoyed the game much more (especially after they learned to weave and felt the difference) and continued playing, while the ones that wanted to play in "their own way" stopped playing the game and gave up. Because "i'm not getting skills that make me stronger" or "combat is boring"...while spamming the same 1 skill.

What you need is a better tutorial! Tips and tricks(could be done by the community with an upvote system) like changing the weapon swap button to your mouse side buttons or something else...most people won't be able to swap with the default and don't even think about using a different key for it.

You have already tried to nerf the weaving a while ago, or nobody else remembers the other "light and heavy attack change"... It just doesn't work. The gap ain't gonna change because veterans adapt to it with the knowledge they have, while new players get nerfed indirectly. Do you even know how many new players just spam light attacks? What's the gap gonna be like for them? This update will hurt everyone. Very, very, very badly thought. Don't you guys have something else to do with your resources? other than updating all sets and skills every time there is a BRILLIANT idea at the board table?

OMG, this. I have been that player too - I mean the newbie one. I was lucky to run into helpful, experienced players and get to where I got to. I am not a fan of watching YT tutorials, so I didn't do that when I started. I had no idea what I was doing. I wish there was a better tutorial - although the community helped me out massively so it all turned out well for me. I do agree with your conclusions about those stubborn players being the ones to quit.

katorga

Light/Heavy attacks not scaling:

All of the sets that apply weapon/spell damage to light attacks need to be changed, again. For example, the infiltrator sets add ~2K weapon damage to light/heavy attacks that no longer scale with stats?

DOTs:

Will burning, poisoned, hemorrhaging status effects last 20 seconds?

Weaving:

So master weavers see a damage nerf, and people who cannot weave effectively still lag behind in dps?

Minno

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

If you want to make the game more accessible for people with slower reactions or disabilities. Then the clear answer is simply to provide a slottable CP star that does this:

Increase the damage of your ground damage over time effects by 75% and all other damage over time effects by 20% and increase their duration by 10 seconds, but reduce the damage of your direct damage by 75%

This way Light Attack Weaving and spamming direct skills isn’t as important. Saving people who suffer from things like carpal tunnel or trigger finger and slowing the game down for them while letting them deal competitive damage through their ground dot’s. It wouldn’t break PvP either as 20% on direct dots isn’t that much. 75% on ground DoT’s is huge, but players can simply move out of them, while also making them useful for zoning in PvP opening up the door for such players to act as supports for their more direct oriented teammates.

You help slower players by increasing their DPS through ground DoT’s and healing through heal over time skills. Making for a more relaxed play style.

Since it is optional, normal players can not take the node and build like normal without their weaving style being hurt.

actually the best way is what another commenter already did. The psijic skill line used to get negative reviews back on it's launch because people didnt really see high-end raid OP stuff out of it. Then you you realize it's a skillline that added ways to teach core mechanics, like light attack weaves in a RP setting. And the rest of the storyline pushed you to old zones, so it was a way to stitch together content that new players might not have seen.

The other way is to look at how all the dad-players are playing, and understand how they are looking at their characters/builds. For example, im pretty slow on proactive gameplay in pvp, but re-actively I can adjust to the way I play. So classes that require you to upkeep a shield or defensive spell I will play pretty bad no matter the practice. BUT I will do better on classes that can have ways to switch defense to offense at the flip of a switch. This is not something you can add a tutorial to explain to players, this is something you offer multiple avenues of gear or skill selection and the players figure out for themselves.

This also means not every class should or can function in certain areas of the game. Some times limitation brings out the challenge seeking in all of us, because at some level no one likes to be told what to do, so we all push the limitations in interesting ways. No one wants to hear it because everyone wants to complete everything in an hour, but sometimes being forced to play limited specs means more time spent in game and thus more enjoyment as your travel on the path from noob to end-game player.

CP5

lopacaESO wrote: »

...
-Not wearing complete sets (a bunch of different set pieces that don't complete each other)
...

YES. But seriously, when I used to tank for pugs I would make logs whenever I saw things that stood out and 9 times out of 10 the person who drew my attention, just in the back lines standing in a red aoe doing light attacks would often have that. Each zone has 3 gear sets, and a majority are tailored to damage dealing, so why there isn't a drive for players to explore a zone long enough to get enough pieces of it to use is beyond me. But again, like you brought up and have others, everything outside of the bare bones is up to players to learn the importance of. Every buff you need to learn the value of, every skill and their uses, and so one.

A few examples for me personally, first was when I learned the value of food. Was doing Darkshade 2 (was Darkshade vet at the time) and we were about to do the netch boss. Group lead saw my health and asked if I had food, I said no, they gave me some random dish and my health went up by 60%. Stuff like that is so easy to miss, and you don't know you're missing it until you need it, which is normally when in a group, and you have them there, with the thought in the back of your mind about how much they must be loving having someone so ill prepared in their group. Swore off doing vet dungeons as a dps until I did vMA because of that honestly...

And beyond that, my main from launch was a dual bow sorc. Not only did it take me until the 2nd silver zone to even cast Negate and realize how it flat out disables enemies, but arrow spray spam when fighting groups of enemies, which can be said for almost every direct damage aoe skill. Topping % damage charts in trash pulls simply by skipping the process of having to cast multiple aoe dots in a fight where they won't last long enough to be helpful feels good, because the game is rewarding you for having the correct answer for the encounter. There aren't enough moments like this, nor a tutorial good enough, to get newer players to learn these tools and try them. The devs should go do some pugs, solo, and see what the group finder gives them.

FeedbackOnly

SiAScORCH wrote: »

Well any of you who like playing werewolf are now irrelevant. WW uses light and a heavy attacks as primary damage, but it doesn't matter to you guys it seems.

Please don't forget werewolves 😨😭

Ezhh

Reading some of these posts... I can only think how many players I had join my guild, and after I or someone else spent an hour or two going through things with them their damage doubled or tripled quite easily. Those who stuck around a week or more usually ended up pulling the numbers needed for vet content with no trouble.

But it needed us to step in and help. We had to explain things.

Because the game doesn't do this. And we can't reach all of these players. You see so many people on the forums saying they will never join guilds and so on and ultimately it shouldn't be our job to teach basic gameplay anyway.

Raising the floor by teaching players = good.

So like so many are saying, add proper tutorials. This would be a much better approach.

WrathOfInnos

I'd like to point out that all players would be able to handle buff and DoT timers better if the in game timers were usable. This half-finished feature does not come close to the basic functionality of addons like Action Duration Reminder or Fancy Action Bar. Making durations longer will not help this, longer timers rely more on trackers (you can count out a 6-10s rotation, but nobody is going to memorize and count 20-30 steps).

MindOfTheSwarm

Minno wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

If you want to make the game more accessible for people with slower reactions or disabilities. Then the clear answer is simply to provide a slottable CP star that does this:

Increase the damage of your ground damage over time effects by 75% and all other damage over time effects by 20% and increase their duration by 10 seconds, but reduce the damage of your direct damage by 75%

This way Light Attack Weaving and spamming direct skills isn’t as important. Saving people who suffer from things like carpal tunnel or trigger finger and slowing the game down for them while letting them deal competitive damage through their ground dot’s. It wouldn’t break PvP either as 20% on direct dots isn’t that much. 75% on ground DoT’s is huge, but players can simply move out of them, while also making them useful for zoning in PvP opening up the door for such players to act as supports for their more direct oriented teammates.

You help slower players by increasing their DPS through ground DoT’s and healing through heal over time skills. Making for a more relaxed play style.

Since it is optional, normal players can not take the node and build like normal without their weaving style being hurt.

actually the best way is what another commenter already did. The psijic skill line used to get negative reviews back on it's launch because people didnt really see high-end raid OP stuff out of it. Then you you realize it's a skillline that added ways to teach core mechanics, like light attack weaves in a RP setting. And the rest of the storyline pushed you to old zones, so it was a way to stitch together content that new players might not have seen.

The other way is to look at how all the dad-players are playing, and understand how they are looking at their characters/builds. For example, im pretty slow on proactive gameplay in pvp, but re-actively I can adjust to the way I play. So classes that require you to upkeep a shield or defensive spell I will play pretty bad no matter the practice. BUT I will do better on classes that can have ways to switch defense to offense at the flip of a switch. This is not something you can add a tutorial to explain to players, this is something you offer multiple avenues of gear or skill selection and the players figure out for themselves.

This also means not every class should or can function in certain areas of the game. Some times limitation brings out the challenge seeking in all of us, because at some level no one likes to be told what to do, so we all push the limitations in interesting ways. No one wants to hear it because everyone wants to complete everything in an hour, but sometimes being forced to play limited specs means more time spent in game and thus more enjoyment as your travel on the path from noob to end-game player.

Teaching players with carpal tunnel syndrome to Light Attack weave will increase their symptoms not ease them. Accessibility is not just about learning mechanics. It is about opening the way for many different kinds of players to be able to do all content, including those with physical limitations.

The last thing you want when you suffer from Carpal Tunnel or Trigger Finger is more clicking. But these changes will encourage more clicking to try and make up for the lost DPS. It will increase the intensity not tune it down. Nerfing the DoT's as much as they have will make certain content like Maebroogha almost impossible for players that need the most help.

The whole thing about DoT builds is that it lets you put down damage while you focus on evading enemy attacks and learning the mechanics and makes it a little easier for players that have slower reaction times.

I can understand not buffing single target DoT's too much as no one wants a return to the DoT meta, but this was only an issue due to single target DoT's and the solution was to nerf ALL DoT's to the point where they barely matter and are all but useless in PVP. Ground DoT's should be the hardest hitting DoT's because they are static and easily avoided while also providing strong zoning in PVP. This would help stop Zergs in Cyro, but rather than buff obvious tools in our skill lines, they would prefer to add silly sets like Convergence and Plaguebreak to do it instead. Thus, further limiting the amount of viable options for PVP. Everyone and their mom is running these sets for a reason, because they fulfill the role of punishing Zergs better than the Ground Dot's we have that are supposed to do that job anyway.

As, for PVE, this is simply a net DPS loss for all. It won't make vet content more accessible for newer players, it will make it even harder for them to do it. While at the same time, making it even less likely that good players will be willing to take new players into VET content due to the content being harder for all. They won't risk it, and will insist on minimum DPS parses that are even more strict than they are now in comparison to the highest parses possible.

The solution is what I suggested, buff Ground Dot damage tremendously and single target DoT a little at the cost of Direct Damage being nerfed heavily to compensate. This will result in high parse for DoT builds and people that need a more relaxed play style to accommodate their disabilities, but it won't be as high as normal parses. This is because it will be optional.

And suppose it can't be a CP node due to having to level up to that point (even though this should not be an issue if it is located independently like the Max resource slotted nodes.)
Then simply add an option in the gameplay menu that lets you turn on and off the effect, while locking the ability to toggle it during PVP areas so that it isn't abused.

Ezhh

Idea: Just add (maybe even give away for free in a simple base game quest!) a mythic that disables light attacks but adds roughly the amount of damage you'd get from weaving reasonably well in some other way. (Not going to specify what way, as there's more than one way it could work).

People who struggle with weaving or do not want to weave can use that. Those who can and want to weave won't use it (because it leaves them one extra slot for something else).

Pretty sure this would raise the floor because it would be handing free damage to those who struggle most, and wouldn't hurt anyone.

MindOfTheSwarm

Add this as a slotted CP star next to the resource nodes:

Cost: Make it cheap for disabled players. Say about 30 CP.

Increases the damage of your ground damage over time effects by 75% and your single target damage over time effects by 20% and increase their duration by 10 seconds, but reduce the damage of all non-status effect Direct Damage by 75%.

No stages, an all in star designed to make the game easier for slower players or those with disabilities, negating the need for weaving or repeatedly clicking, while allowing them to get good parses without t being meta due to the huge direct damage loss.

With such a star, this entire combat change that is planned is no longer necessary and everyone wins. If super high damage is still a concern, then nerf Light Attacks but not to the degree you have done. Maybe a 25% nerf.

virt_eso

Bad.

Emp

I am very okay with these changes.

Remathilis

Everyone's so worried about "mah DPS" they aren't seeing the hidden benefit: less server lag.

A perfectly timed static rotation sends a large amount of variable packets at the server. Each LA/HA is individually calculated and sent, often along with the skill that is masking the animation. Additionally, each hot/dot press is another packet sent. This should reduce server strain as well

LA/HA static numbers should reduce calculation routines. Hots/dots lasting longer should reduce reapply spam. Less reliance on perfect weaving and constant bar swapping should also reduce packet flood lag. I would not be surprised if the servers handle better with these changes.

Magio_

Remathilis wrote: »

Everyone's so worried about "mah DPS" they aren't seeing the hidden benefit: less server lag.

They're not removing it though. People can and will still weave and still do better than other people. Envious people are just happy better players that mastered weaving are getting nerfed even while they themselves will get nerfed, just not by as much.

Guess what? High-end players will still clear all content and the people making fun of them in these thread still won't. The only people that get hurt are the silent players in the middle that were getting close to clearing content and will see their damage nerfed.

MindOfTheSwarm

Magio_ wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

Everyone's so worried about "mah DPS" they aren't seeing the hidden benefit: less server lag.

They're not removing it though. People can and will still weave and still do better than other people. Envious people are just happy better players that mastered weaving are getting nerfed even while they themselves will get nerfed, just not by as much.

Guess what? High-end players will still clear all content and the people making fun of them in these thread still won't. The only people that get hurt are the silent players in the middle that were getting close to clearing content and will see their damage nerfed.

This isn’t the point. The damage nerf or people finishing content the same is not the argument.
The argument is that killing DoT’s this way will basically force players into the same builds, ergo spammable direct damage only.

This change kills DoT builds completely, builds that we’re already underperforming as is. Also, it won’t help with disabilities which is what the change is supposed to help with. New players and those that struggle now are gonna find it even harder to find groups when these changes hit. DPS loss groups wide REDUCES the likelihood that top players will take on new players, even decent ones will be reluctant. This will actually make it harder for casuals to access end game content, not make it easier.

Nerhesi

Half of this topic is PvP focused (the second half). I think we are fixing one problem and exasperating another.

A) Weaving/light attacking is a huge problem (and I'm sweaty dueling weaving/cancelling player). There is no denying this is a bug-turned-feature that has made it much harder to balance the game as part that has been part of the meta since the game's launch.

Burst being the only reliable way to kill because of the simple-nature-gameplay that is all about sustain, rather than absolute values (your recovery is a lot more important than you actual pools) is the other big problem. So now with reducing DoT effectiveness (dmg and healing), there will be more focus on burst. Especially now that healing dots will run for a longer period.

I applaud the move to address the problems and not being affected by the screams of CCs or the vocal minority that is PvPing/dueling/etc. But now, more than ever, you need to think about changes that go hand in hand with the above:

- Why this game is so sustain focused rather than absolute pools. This will affect the whole-burst-or-nothing pvp approach.
- Getting more kiss/curse and traditional roles in the game. Why is a single stat (wpn or spl dmg), responsible for Dots, direct damage, healing, etc....
- As above, but also further breaking down the roles in mutually opposed choices in CPs. For example, Have the CP stars that increase DD increased to 15%, but that gives you a -10% dot damage. Create an opposite one as well. Think about healing CPs that do the same but affect damage of the opposite type (+15% dot heal, -10% direct heal) etc...

You are looking at addressing big problems that have plagued this game, so take the big steps required - rather than a couple of smaller ones that will fix half the problem, and make the other half twice as big.

Snow_White

If you want to narrow the range between floor and ceiling, put LA on a separate queue from the skill so that hitting skill too early doesn’t overwrite the LA. If both could be queued up seperately so that both reliably fire once a second, every second you’d eliminate much of the difference in damage output between high skill and low skill players.

Nerfing LA damage without addressing LA not firing reliably for less skilled players isn’t going to change the delta in damage output due to sets like Kinras, Relequen and AY.


If you don’t want people starring at their action bars then make a better UI that makes tracking dots easier. As it is people are still going to stare at them, just because you change the dot timer to 20 seconds doesnt alleviate the need to see how much longer you have left on it, and as soon as a player reacts to fight mechanics the timers are going to become out of sync (static rotation) and a skill gap will exist with those that can respond dynamically.


As it is, the biggest barrier to players completing content is lack of knowledge.

The game teaches you **** all about how to play the game, and unless you luck out with a good guild or actively search out content creators or something you’re never going to learn. A lot of systems are unintuitive (LA weaving) and/or hidden (penetration). Normal dungeons/trials are so dumbed down they do a relatively poor job preparing players for vet.


Lastly, are you guys seriously going to nerf the max range, LA only bow guy?

Nerhesi

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

This change kills DoT builds completely, builds that we’re already underperforming as is. Also, it won’t help with disabilities which is what the change is supposed to help with. New players and those that struggle now are gonna find it even harder to find groups when these changes hit. DPS loss groups wide REDUCES the likelihood that top players will take on new players, even decent ones will be reluctant. This will actually make it harder for casuals to access end game content, not make it easier.

Yup.

The only way this is addressed is a really brave discussion regarding why this game is all about sustain and the pools are much less important.

This change would make sense if you could run out of resources, or eventually be attrition-ed by dots. But it wont work in the current environment, where everyone doesn't run out of resources.

You can't balance a game where everyone regens to full in 4 seconds, and a single stat basically drives how much damage you do with DDs, dots, heals and heal dots. Big changes required.

drzycki_ESO

I would be all for getting rid of weaving altogether but I realize that wouldn't be a popular opinion. I hope the light/heavy attack changes won't hurt Crystal Weapons.

Magio_

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Magio_ wrote: »

Remathilis wrote: »

Everyone's so worried about "mah DPS" they aren't seeing the hidden benefit: less server lag.

They're not removing it though. People can and will still weave and still do better than other people. Envious people are just happy better players that mastered weaving are getting nerfed even while they themselves will get nerfed, just not by as much.

Guess what? High-end players will still clear all content and the people making fun of them in these thread still won't. The only people that get hurt are the silent players in the middle that were getting close to clearing content and will see their damage nerfed.

This isn’t the point. The damage nerf or people finishing content the same is not the argument.
The argument is that killing DoT’s this way will basically force players into the same builds, ergo spammable direct damage only.

This change kills DoT builds completely, builds that we’re already underperforming as is. Also, it won’t help with disabilities which is what the change is supposed to help with. New players and those that struggle now are gonna find it even harder to find groups when these changes hit. DPS loss groups wide REDUCES the likelihood that top players will take on new players, even decent ones will be reluctant. This will actually make it harder for casuals to access end game content, not make it easier.

That's what I said? I agree with you lol. Did you miss I was replying to someone was just saying it would help server lag cuz of inputs. The input # will stay the same, it just won't do as much damage.

neferpitou73

Remathilis wrote: »

Everyone's so worried about "mah DPS" they aren't seeing the hidden benefit: less server lag.

A perfectly timed static rotation sends a large amount of variable packets at the server. Each LA/HA is individually calculated and sent, often along with the skill that is masking the animation. Additionally, each hot/dot press is another packet sent. This should reduce server strain as well

LA/HA static numbers should reduce calculation routines. Hots/dots lasting longer should reduce reapply spam. Less reliance on perfect weaving and constant bar swapping should also reduce packet flood lag. I would not be surprised if the servers handle better with these changes.

If you think this will affect server lag then I have a bridge to sell you