Oakensoul is ruining the PVP experience, and needs to be balanced ASAP.

OBJnoob

My oakensoul stamdk was good right off rip… first gearing attempt, first ability bar attempt… didn’t even have potions and realized early my sustain was bad. Kicked butt anyway, e z mode. I’m sure a more magdk styled dk would be even better. Scary to hear people talk about oakensoul templars I don’t think I’ve fought one yet but it sounds scary.

I’ve tried some other toons though and the winning combination doesn’t seem as simple. Then again I’m not the best player so there’s that. But it does seem to me that your sustain and mobility take a big hit. And beyond a certain threshold, your self healing isn’t what it used to be.

Not defending oakensoul exactly but just trying to be honest. Bombers already existed and could kill like 15 players at once. Not sure bombing can be considered very high skilled gameplay in the same way that oakensoul can’t. Same with ganking. So how oakensoul performs on them kinda doesn’t bother me… it is what it is, which is just what it’s always been. If you’re gonna hit me for 35k you might as well make it 50k.

So how many builds with the ring actually outperform their counterparts? Not including dks gankers and bombers?

I think ZoS should do something about bombing and ganking independent of this discussion, but that’s just me. And I do believe the oakensoul dk is being carried in particular by the major heroism and how it feeds not their damage but their sustain. Nerf the combustion passive? No prob we got major heroism now same thing lol.

SO… if we want to nerf it a little, but admit that we DO want it to be roughly as strong as a 2bar build amounts average players… then maybe we do something like:

Remove major heroism
Add minor heroism
Remove major berzerk
Add major mending.

ShadowProc

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The oaken defenders are in full force, lol. Gonna be a shame to push these half baked arguments only to see it nerfed, and then blame pvpers.

Devs gave you a lil taste of $ juice, and you're hooked in.

1vxers defenders out in full force, lol. Now that there is more competition the 1vxers who suddenly aren’t farming bottom tier players are out in full force. Sorry bro but as stated above, they represent a much small portion of the games population.

For the record I too agree it needs adjustment. But not the demolition some are calling for. Nor do I think it will get the great nerf 1vxers are calling for.

Zos please make minor adjustments. The MAJORITY find the current meta way more enjoyable than the previous tank metas.

DrSlaughtr

Stamicka wrote: »

I've been giving it some thought recently, and I think Oakensoul is ZOS' way of telling us that their philosophy for the game has changed. Most people here are arguing about how imbalanced the ring is and how it allows less skilled players to compete against players with more skill. I think that this was 100% intentional and aligned with ZOS' vision. At this point ZOS has made it clear that they will not be raising the difficulty of overland, they have not adjusted Vet content for power creep, and they are putting tons of focus into housing, mini games, and solo friendly activities. Additionally, PvP has not seen new content in years. The devs see this game as a very casual "relax and play with your friends" sort of game, very similar to Animal Crossing. Most of the competitive crowd has left, but to those remaining I'm sure we will see more things like Oakensoul get introduced into the game. At this point. ESO is not the game to play if you're looking for some sort of competitive and skilled PvP. It doesn't even seem like the Devs themselves want competitive players on the game anymore. If you're playing this game expecting it to be balanced and competitive, I think it's time to move on and let ESO become the completely casual game that it's trying to become. There are only very small glimmers of the game we once came to enjoy left.

C'mon. They have given no indication that they want to turn this game into -insert generic freemium game here-. They continue to release trials and dungeons which increase in difficulty. Everything in this game has a leaderboard of some sort, except for IC.

They made it quite clear the item was meant to make the game more accessible for players who struggle to play due to physical or mental limitations.

The problem is some (not all) of the effects on this one piece item are not available to everyone else. Thus end game players who have no such limitations are running to use this. And because I have no access to those buffs on a 2 bar set up, I am inherently at a disadvantage, a disadvantage that isn't based on skill, effort or dedication. It's based on money and a willingness to jump aboard the oakensoul train just to have a level playing field.

If you just removed heroism along with either force, courage or berserk, it would still be effective in both PVP and PvE without causing cheese monger vet players to salivate at the thought of running it.

Another thing that needs to be stated are the nerfs to damage CP slottables. Someone running a 2 bar set up is feeling that damage reduction WAY more than users of this mythic.

Wolfpaw

FENGRUSH wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The oaken defenders are in full force, lol. Gonna be a shame to push these half baked arguments only to see it nerfed, and then blame pvpers.

Devs gave you a lil taste of $ juice, and you're hooked in.

It all seems like the same circular defense too.

Oaken isn't that strong. You have to sacrifice a lot to use it. So what if it is as strong as a two bar setup. It really helps players be competitive. But it's not that strong.

How something can help players perform on par with less skills as players with twice as many, and then also somehow not be strong, is completely at odds.

The valid point being seen about this item is it allows people to complete by raising the floor. This is an ongoing issue the devs have struggled to solve. It's important too to get new faces into pvp.

Giving a 1 bar with general buffs ( not major force, hero, protection, berserk) and then giving base stats would help for example, but it wouldn't be an item worth using for veteran players then.

This item does create pretty problematic builds all over the place. General dks with corrosive landing 5 digit whips are very commonplace and otherwise wouldn't be possible by other players. It also forces me to retreat out of melee constantly.

It's not realistic to assume this isn't widely used and extremely powerful in average to high end players. All in all, it is getting nerfed. And no, they probably won't solve other outliers like heavy attacks, stealth burst, insane healing etc.

What happens in pvp in an afterthought once items are made, especially mythics that are tied to chapter sales. I enjoy the games pvp, and it's really diminished the enjoyment in the game. They knew it'd be too tuned up. Yelling at pvp/pve players on the forum has been happening for years. People doing this are acting poorly and it's all for naught.

I don't think perspective/balance from solo, dueling, BG, & the next solo meta build found on youtube should be considered in PvP balance. This game's PvP is built for largescale group PvP.

DK's, as you mentioned, are not an issue unless you solo or play no CP "PvP" (loosely used:relic, ball, kings) BG's.

edit cleanup thought & forgot to add...great content, ESO support, and PvP streams over the years. Thank you.

TechMaybeHic

Wolfpaw wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The oaken defenders are in full force, lol. Gonna be a shame to push these half baked arguments only to see it nerfed, and then blame pvpers.

Devs gave you a lil taste of $ juice, and you're hooked in.

It all seems like the same circular defense too.

Oaken isn't that strong. You have to sacrifice a lot to use it. So what if it is as strong as a two bar setup. It really helps players be competitive. But it's not that strong.

How something can help players perform on par with less skills as players with twice as many, and then also somehow not be strong, is completely at odds.

The valid point being seen about this item is it allows people to complete by raising the floor. This is an ongoing issue the devs have struggled to solve. It's important too to get new faces into pvp.

Giving a 1 bar with general buffs ( not major force, hero, protection, berserk) and then giving base stats would help for example, but it wouldn't be an item worth using for veteran players then.

This item does create pretty problematic builds all over the place. General dks with corrosive landing 5 digit whips are very commonplace and otherwise wouldn't be possible by other players. It also forces me to retreat out of melee constantly.

It's not realistic to assume this isn't widely used and extremely powerful in average to high end players. All in all, it is getting nerfed. And no, they probably won't solve other outliers like heavy attacks, stealth burst, insane healing etc.

What happens in pvp in an afterthought once items are made, especially mythics that are tied to chapter sales. I enjoy the games pvp, and it's really diminished the enjoyment in the game. They knew it'd be too tuned up. Yelling at pvp/pve players on the forum has been happening for years. People doing this are acting poorly and it's all for naught.

I don't think perspective/balance from solo, dueling, BG streams, & click videos should be considered in PvP balance. This game's PvP is built for largescale group PvP.

DK's, as you mentioned, are not an issue unless you solo or play no CP "PvP" (loosely used) BG's.

Are you saying Feng doesn't do Cyridiil? I'm afraid you are mistaken.

AuraNebula

Wolfpaw wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The oaken defenders are in full force, lol. Gonna be a shame to push these half baked arguments only to see it nerfed, and then blame pvpers.

Devs gave you a lil taste of $ juice, and you're hooked in.

It all seems like the same circular defense too.

Oaken isn't that strong. You have to sacrifice a lot to use it. So what if it is as strong as a two bar setup. It really helps players be competitive. But it's not that strong.

How something can help players perform on par with less skills as players with twice as many, and then also somehow not be strong, is completely at odds.

The valid point being seen about this item is it allows people to complete by raising the floor. This is an ongoing issue the devs have struggled to solve. It's important too to get new faces into pvp.

Giving a 1 bar with general buffs ( not major force, hero, protection, berserk) and then giving base stats would help for example, but it wouldn't be an item worth using for veteran players then.

This item does create pretty problematic builds all over the place. General dks with corrosive landing 5 digit whips are very commonplace and otherwise wouldn't be possible by other players. It also forces me to retreat out of melee constantly.

It's not realistic to assume this isn't widely used and extremely powerful in average to high end players. All in all, it is getting nerfed. And no, they probably won't solve other outliers like heavy attacks, stealth burst, insane healing etc.

What happens in pvp in an afterthought once items are made, especially mythics that are tied to chapter sales. I enjoy the games pvp, and it's really diminished the enjoyment in the game. They knew it'd be too tuned up. Yelling at pvp/pve players on the forum has been happening for years. People doing this are acting poorly and it's all for naught.

I don't think perspective/balance from solo, dueling, BG, & the next solo meta build found on youtube should be considered in PvP balance. This game's PvP is built for largescale group PvP.

DK's, as you mentioned, are not an issue unless you solo or play no CP "PvP" (loosely used:relic, ball, kings) BG's.

edit cleanup thought & forgot to add...great content, ESO support, and PvP streams over the years. Thank you.

I'm pretty sure the games motto is "play how you want"

I don't think zos intends for everyone to be forced to play in a group. I enjoy PvP because I can play alone. People give me anxiety.

Wolfpaw

AuraNebula wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The oaken defenders are in full force, lol. Gonna be a shame to push these half baked arguments only to see it nerfed, and then blame pvpers.

Devs gave you a lil taste of $ juice, and you're hooked in.

It all seems like the same circular defense too.

Oaken isn't that strong. You have to sacrifice a lot to use it. So what if it is as strong as a two bar setup. It really helps players be competitive. But it's not that strong.

How something can help players perform on par with less skills as players with twice as many, and then also somehow not be strong, is completely at odds.

The valid point being seen about this item is it allows people to complete by raising the floor. This is an ongoing issue the devs have struggled to solve. It's important too to get new faces into pvp.

Giving a 1 bar with general buffs ( not major force, hero, protection, berserk) and then giving base stats would help for example, but it wouldn't be an item worth using for veteran players then.

This item does create pretty problematic builds all over the place. General dks with corrosive landing 5 digit whips are very commonplace and otherwise wouldn't be possible by other players. It also forces me to retreat out of melee constantly.

It's not realistic to assume this isn't widely used and extremely powerful in average to high end players. All in all, it is getting nerfed. And no, they probably won't solve other outliers like heavy attacks, stealth burst, insane healing etc.

What happens in pvp in an afterthought once items are made, especially mythics that are tied to chapter sales. I enjoy the games pvp, and it's really diminished the enjoyment in the game. They knew it'd be too tuned up. Yelling at pvp/pve players on the forum has been happening for years. People doing this are acting poorly and it's all for naught.

I don't think perspective/balance from solo, dueling, BG, & the next solo meta build found on youtube should be considered in PvP balance. This game's PvP is built for largescale group PvP.

DK's, as you mentioned, are not an issue unless you solo or play no CP "PvP" (loosely used:relic, ball, kings) BG's.

edit cleanup thought & forgot to add...great content, ESO support, and PvP streams over the years. Thank you.

I'm pretty sure the games motto is "play how you want"

I don't think zos intends for everyone to be forced to play in a group. I enjoy PvP because I can play alone. People give me anxiety.

"Play how you want" doesn't mean how you play will be the best option for the content you choose.

Cyrodiil is group content, yes you can play solo, but it's intended for group play. Random bg's and dueling is a better fit for your solo build.

Imagine if ZOS starts balancing trials around solo build players? Wouldn't make sense.

auz

Wolfpaw wrote: »

React wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

auz wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

auz wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

React wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Kalitas wrote: »

Is it possible to get a comment on this from @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_Kevin or anyone from ZOS? This is clearly a large issue that is plaguing the game right now. Any sort of response would be very appreciated by the community.

It's not that bad, do we constantly want nerfs after a release? If anything it has made me better in PvP, I am not so dismissive to core combat abilities, timing, los, etc...

I hope no nerfs...but if a must, change Courage & Heroism to minor.

my 2c

Changing those two buffs to minor will do very little to alleviate the issues being caused by this mythic in PVP. Removing the heroism and the force entirely would be the bare minimum in order for this mythic to be somewhat balanced.

I am glad that it has helped you in PVP. It seems like the main thing it has done for you is lower the APM (actions per minute) you need to do while playing by removing the need for you to maintain buffs. That is fine, and that is what the ring is designed to do. Even with the heroism and force removed from the ring, you will still retain all the accessibility functionality it is providing you currently - but the setups I mentioned in the original post will cease to function as they are currently, and the PVP experience will improve for the vast majority of players.

Again it is fine for the mythic to provide accessibility for those who struggle with their actions per minute, but it is not fine for it to grant your average PVP player more damage than an entire 5/5/2 build, significant mitigation & sustain, and emperor tier ult gen in PVP.

My APM is not what I said makes me better, It's the ttk from enemies that has made me more aware due to increased damage output. Prior I would just keep BB buffs/hots and ignore most damage...in a damage build, not anymore.

My apm went from face tanking dmg w/buffs & hot uptime BB, to more of a focus on core combat abilities. Actually takes more skill w/one-bar.

Everyone running it ttk is more lethal & it's great.

The ring as is, is fine, & PvP feels great.

Having to press less buttons and manage less buffs is more skillfull and your proof is your performance has improved? Interesting conclusion.

Not managing less buttons, different buttons.

Let me slow this down...I traded (what some think is skillful play, including me til recently) keeping bb buffs/hots up to counter the majority of incoming damage over core combat skill play.

Since many players are running Oakensoul, enemy vs enemy with the same Oakensoul buffs are equals, in that context.

This leaves a focus on your 1bar and managing skillful play of core combat skills. With the higher damage output mistakes come at a higher cost.

Well... it is less buttons. Half as many. Half as many bars to manage. Zero buffs to keep up. That allowing you to " manage skilfull play of core combat skills" while negating a large portion of game combat mechanics is literally what is wrong with it. You might feel the same if you could " manage skillfull play of core combat skills" with 2 bars.

No, with that back bar of 5 more skills you're spending more time in combat on that bar pressing those buttons instead of using core combat skills.

Yes before of course you would use 10 skills plus core combat skills, but it looked more like 80% skills 20% core combat skills, & now it's more like 50/50.

Lets be honest, is it really skill play face tanking damage? Backbar Major Resolve, Flare, 2-3 Healing skills, and ult from S&B, Resto staff, Temp Guard, etc...not nearly as skillful as core combat skills.

For the record, "core combat skills" are things like block, dodge roll, sprint, bash, and break free, per zenimax's wording in game on multiple sets and the survival instincts red CP. You still perform the exact same number of core combat abilities if you're playing with two bars, but you have far more buffs to manage and abilities to rotate.

divnyi wrote: »

React wrote: »

The 8.0.3 version is in fact significantly stronger than the original version that had flat stats, due to the heroism/force/berserk/protection that were added, far outweighing what was removed from the original version.

Initial version was giving a lot of raw stats that could be boosted higher. If it gone live, we would be in even more unhealthier meta.

Nope. Despite the original version giving raw stats, you were still limited to 5 barslots. This meant that for most classes, getting things like ward/resolve, savagery, and brutality, you would actually have to sacrifice barslots. You're suggesting that people would be able to double up on the 5280 with their own ward/resolve, or the crit chance with their own savagery, or the weapon damage with their own (major courage?), but when you consider the 5 bar slot limitation this is not at all realistic.

The current version providing the named buffs removes the need for all of those abilities on your bar, allowing you to optimize the 5 slots much better. Additionally, when you consider what the new version gives, it is significantly more stat dense than the original version damage wise. Savagery, 20% crit damage, 10% flat damage modifier, and 450 WD/SD vs 450 WD/SD + 3.8k mag/stam + 2k crit chance.

Defensively, major protection is much more valuable than 5.2k resistances as the protection cannot be inversely mitigated by penetration like resistances can. The major heroism is also disgustingly strong for a plethora of reasons, both offensive and defensive depending on the ult of choice. Near emperor tier ulti regen does not belong in PVP outside of emperor itself.

Thanks for the lesson on core combat skills lol, no you're not performing the same amount core combat skills while face tanking damage due to the perks of a bb buff and multiple heals, and pressing 5 additional skills.

Maybe we do different types of pvp, I play largscale, and don't waste my time dueling or bg's.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Welp.

Tough to argue with that.

You know all your core skills and abilities work on back bar, right?

auz

Wolfpaw wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The oaken defenders are in full force, lol. Gonna be a shame to push these half baked arguments only to see it nerfed, and then blame pvpers.

Devs gave you a lil taste of $ juice, and you're hooked in.

It all seems like the same circular defense too.

Oaken isn't that strong. You have to sacrifice a lot to use it. So what if it is as strong as a two bar setup. It really helps players be competitive. But it's not that strong.

How something can help players perform on par with less skills as players with twice as many, and then also somehow not be strong, is completely at odds.

The valid point being seen about this item is it allows people to complete by raising the floor. This is an ongoing issue the devs have struggled to solve. It's important too to get new faces into pvp.

Giving a 1 bar with general buffs ( not major force, hero, protection, berserk) and then giving base stats would help for example, but it wouldn't be an item worth using for veteran players then.

This item does create pretty problematic builds all over the place. General dks with corrosive landing 5 digit whips are very commonplace and otherwise wouldn't be possible by other players. It also forces me to retreat out of melee constantly.

It's not realistic to assume this isn't widely used and extremely powerful in average to high end players. All in all, it is getting nerfed. And no, they probably won't solve other outliers like heavy attacks, stealth burst, insane healing etc.

What happens in pvp in an afterthought once items are made, especially mythics that are tied to chapter sales. I enjoy the games pvp, and it's really diminished the enjoyment in the game. They knew it'd be too tuned up. Yelling at pvp/pve players on the forum has been happening for years. People doing this are acting poorly and it's all for naught.

I don't think perspective/balance from solo, dueling, BG, & the next solo meta build found on youtube should be considered in PvP balance. This game's PvP is built for largescale group PvP.

DK's, as you mentioned, are not an issue unless you solo or play no CP "PvP" (loosely used:relic, ball, kings) BG's.

edit cleanup thought & forgot to add...great content, ESO support, and PvP streams over the years. Thank you.

I disagree. If zos wanted large scale combat they would have made it so the game didn't lag everytime there was a large group of players together.

Wolfpaw

auz wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The oaken defenders are in full force, lol. Gonna be a shame to push these half baked arguments only to see it nerfed, and then blame pvpers.

Devs gave you a lil taste of $ juice, and you're hooked in.

It all seems like the same circular defense too.

Oaken isn't that strong. You have to sacrifice a lot to use it. So what if it is as strong as a two bar setup. It really helps players be competitive. But it's not that strong.

How something can help players perform on par with less skills as players with twice as many, and then also somehow not be strong, is completely at odds.

The valid point being seen about this item is it allows people to complete by raising the floor. This is an ongoing issue the devs have struggled to solve. It's important too to get new faces into pvp.

Giving a 1 bar with general buffs ( not major force, hero, protection, berserk) and then giving base stats would help for example, but it wouldn't be an item worth using for veteran players then.

This item does create pretty problematic builds all over the place. General dks with corrosive landing 5 digit whips are very commonplace and otherwise wouldn't be possible by other players. It also forces me to retreat out of melee constantly.

It's not realistic to assume this isn't widely used and extremely powerful in average to high end players. All in all, it is getting nerfed. And no, they probably won't solve other outliers like heavy attacks, stealth burst, insane healing etc.

What happens in pvp in an afterthought once items are made, especially mythics that are tied to chapter sales. I enjoy the games pvp, and it's really diminished the enjoyment in the game. They knew it'd be too tuned up. Yelling at pvp/pve players on the forum has been happening for years. People doing this are acting poorly and it's all for naught.

I don't think perspective/balance from solo, dueling, BG, & the next solo meta build found on youtube should be considered in PvP balance. This game's PvP is built for largescale group PvP.

DK's, as you mentioned, are not an issue unless you solo or play no CP "PvP" (loosely used:relic, ball, kings) BG's.

edit cleanup thought & forgot to add...great content, ESO support, and PvP streams over the years. Thank you.

I disagree. If zos wanted large scale combat they would have made it so the game didn't lag everytime there was a large group of players together.

Best response

DrSlaughtr

auz wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The oaken defenders are in full force, lol. Gonna be a shame to push these half baked arguments only to see it nerfed, and then blame pvpers.

Devs gave you a lil taste of $ juice, and you're hooked in.

It all seems like the same circular defense too.

Oaken isn't that strong. You have to sacrifice a lot to use it. So what if it is as strong as a two bar setup. It really helps players be competitive. But it's not that strong.

How something can help players perform on par with less skills as players with twice as many, and then also somehow not be strong, is completely at odds.

The valid point being seen about this item is it allows people to complete by raising the floor. This is an ongoing issue the devs have struggled to solve. It's important too to get new faces into pvp.

Giving a 1 bar with general buffs ( not major force, hero, protection, berserk) and then giving base stats would help for example, but it wouldn't be an item worth using for veteran players then.

This item does create pretty problematic builds all over the place. General dks with corrosive landing 5 digit whips are very commonplace and otherwise wouldn't be possible by other players. It also forces me to retreat out of melee constantly.

It's not realistic to assume this isn't widely used and extremely powerful in average to high end players. All in all, it is getting nerfed. And no, they probably won't solve other outliers like heavy attacks, stealth burst, insane healing etc.

What happens in pvp in an afterthought once items are made, especially mythics that are tied to chapter sales. I enjoy the games pvp, and it's really diminished the enjoyment in the game. They knew it'd be too tuned up. Yelling at pvp/pve players on the forum has been happening for years. People doing this are acting poorly and it's all for naught.

I don't think perspective/balance from solo, dueling, BG, & the next solo meta build found on youtube should be considered in PvP balance. This game's PvP is built for largescale group PvP.

DK's, as you mentioned, are not an issue unless you solo or play no CP "PvP" (loosely used:relic, ball, kings) BG's.

edit cleanup thought & forgot to add...great content, ESO support, and PvP streams over the years. Thank you.

I disagree. If zos wanted large scale combat they would have made it so the game didn't lag everytime there was a large group of players together.

Original Cyro had 2k limit and it performed quite well, from what I can recall.

MentalxHammer

I'm sure many top PvP players can agree that promoting new player numbers in PvP is a great thing. With this being said the route to increase the skill floor by such a vast margin is not the right approach.

It is extremely disheartening to see that mechanically skilled gameplay that has been developed over thousands of hours is being matched by far less experienced players simply because they are equipping one overpowered item. Frankly, the level that the skill floor has been elevated to is a slap in the face to the players that have spent so much time and effort learning ESO in and out.

I personally know many veteran players that have recently returned to the game after the server improvements; these players are all dropping like flies after the introduction of Oakensoul, which is sad to see. I really enjoy ESO and hope to see PvP succeed over a long period of time, however the integrity of the game is being severely diminished by the current state of this item that is now ubiquitous in open world PvP.

Please consider deactivating Oakensoul ring via battle spirit until further balance considerations are made. It was balanced around PvE and should remain there for the time being. This controversy and polarization within the community is not healthy for the game.

Brrrofski

buzzclops wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

buzzclops wrote: »

It’s impossible to slot enough offense/defense/cc/healing/mobility to do pvp at the high level

Oh it is, and when you put it that way, it sounds like Oakensoul ironically does take skill to use properly.

No you cant. If you play on ps4 come show me in stonefalls thats it. Oakensoul is just a crutch for players that cant manage their bars. People just like to complain smh. Ill give you an example. Templars best 5 buttons+ult. Jabs toppling purge/bubble breath of life purifying light. That leaves you with no major breach whatsoever. No major expedition. (Q for a bg in high mmr without major expedition and tell me how it goes xD) No mending cause no resto back bar. No evasion. Major berserk without penetration isnt very good. So you have to get soem of these with sets cause your abilities dont give you much and you lose on a lot of decent class passives. 15% dot reduction from necro armor comes to mind. That leaves you with very little sustain so you have to go get some also. Ppl act like this rings give you EVERYTHING you need for pvp wich just isnt true. And btw templar is probably the best at this because of how overloaded their skills are to begin with. Also forgot to mention animation cancelling barswaps to get stuff done quicker. You also cant do that with oakensoul

If you know how to build, you can get everything.

On my Templar I have

30k health
26k stam
18k mag

1500 mag regen
2100 stam regen

6.5k spell damage
41% crit
9k pen

31k spell resist
30k physical resist
3k crit resist

Plus the major beserk, force, protection and heroism from oaken.

That's with continuous attack, tri pot buff and rallying cry. So things I have 100% uptime.

So what am I missing out on? I have race against time. I have two heals - one burst and on over time. I have a dot, a spammable and a cc.

I'm missing cleanse, which ok is weird but worth it for those stats. Minor mending, but I have so much damage I have the single target healing cp so that's covered.

I don't need anything else. It's ridiculous how much the build has. Granted, not every class can. But that's another issue with the ring - it really amplifies class imbalance.

AdamLAD

Theres no Counterplayer to ganker unless he fails to gank. Oh but guess what, that new ring makes them tankier, have more sustain and do more damage. It's not fun when you're at full health and just die in less thatn a second. Especially new people in PvP, they will NEVER EVER try it again. Killing someone should never ever be that easy unless its a bomber. Gankers in my opinion should not exist now. Its not even high risk high reward anymore. That ring has made it low risk, high reward. Not just that theres groups of gankers now focusing one target. This patch is up there with the DOT patch. Actually terrible. PvP is all over the place. Lackluster and not fun. Do you're self a favour zenimax and invite the best players to your balance team because, at this point I have no idea why you're getting things so drastically wrong.

Ahk1lleez

AdamLAD wrote: »

Theres no Counterplayer to ganker unless he fails to gank. Oh but guess what, that new ring makes them tankier, have more sustain and do more damage. It's not fun when you're at full health and just die in less thatn a second. Especially new people in PvP, they will NEVER EVER try it again. Killing someone should never ever be that easy unless its a bomber. Gankers in my opinion should not exist now. Its not even high risk high reward anymore. That ring has made it low risk, high reward. Not just that theres groups of gankers now focusing one target. This patch is up there with the DOT patch. Actually terrible. PvP is all over the place. Lackluster and not fun. Do you're self a favour zenimax and invite the best players to your balance team because, at this point I have no idea why you're getting things so drastically wrong.

You can't honestly say this about ganking if you've actually played a ganking build, for you would know that since the cloak nerf and dots hitting through it, pure gankers melt, Oakensoul or not. To be honest, I don't even mind the one shots. I feel like that's what a NB is supposed to be. Bombs are an altogether different story. Single target though, the target SHOULDN'T live if they aren't actively blocking or dodge rolling. Like I said before though, DOT's hitting through cloak make it even higher risk than it was before, I mean unless you're (as the target of a gank) out doing things solo with no help...which means you're not playing the way Cyrodiil was intended to be played.

Brrrofski

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Theres no Counterplayer to ganker unless he fails to gank. Oh but guess what, that new ring makes them tankier, have more sustain and do more damage. It's not fun when you're at full health and just die in less thatn a second. Especially new people in PvP, they will NEVER EVER try it again. Killing someone should never ever be that easy unless its a bomber. Gankers in my opinion should not exist now. Its not even high risk high reward anymore. That ring has made it low risk, high reward. Not just that theres groups of gankers now focusing one target. This patch is up there with the DOT patch. Actually terrible. PvP is all over the place. Lackluster and not fun. Do you're self a favour zenimax and invite the best players to your balance team because, at this point I have no idea why you're getting things so drastically wrong.

You can't honestly say this about ganking if you've actually played a ganking build, for you would know that since the cloak nerf and dots hitting through it, pure gankers melt, Oakensoul or not. To be honest, I don't even mind the one shots. I feel like that's what a NB is supposed to be. Bombs are an altogether different story. Single target though, the target SHOULDN'T live if they aren't actively blocking or dodge rolling. Like I said before though, DOT's hitting through cloak make it even higher risk than it was before, I mean unless you're out doing things solo with no help...which means you're not playing the way Cyrodiil was intended to be played.

Well, if you're playing a ganker properly, you shouldn't really be getting caught for dots to tick while in cloak.

When I play a ganker (usually if population is imbalanced and it's impossible to do something against the zerg) I get caught maybe 1 time out of 20 or 30.

The ring has made ganking insane. The amount of damage you can generate is crazy.

Ganking has its place, but it shouldn't be hitting 20k incaps on someone with 30k resistances, 3k crit resist and major protection. Which some people are doing right now.

Oakensoul isn't the only reason behind this, but it absolutely has amplified it.

I don't even die to gankers a whole lot. I always have my buffs up, very situationally aware and have quick reactions. But it's happening more since Oakensoul, even though I've made my build tankier.

Ahk1lleez

Brrrofski wrote: »

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Theres no Counterplayer to ganker unless he fails to gank. Oh but guess what, that new ring makes them tankier, have more sustain and do more damage. It's not fun when you're at full health and just die in less thatn a second. Especially new people in PvP, they will NEVER EVER try it again. Killing someone should never ever be that easy unless its a bomber. Gankers in my opinion should not exist now. Its not even high risk high reward anymore. That ring has made it low risk, high reward. Not just that theres groups of gankers now focusing one target. This patch is up there with the DOT patch. Actually terrible. PvP is all over the place. Lackluster and not fun. Do you're self a favour zenimax and invite the best players to your balance team because, at this point I have no idea why you're getting things so drastically wrong.

You can't honestly say this about ganking if you've actually played a ganking build, for you would know that since the cloak nerf and dots hitting through it, pure gankers melt, Oakensoul or not. To be honest, I don't even mind the one shots. I feel like that's what a NB is supposed to be. Bombs are an altogether different story. Single target though, the target SHOULDN'T live if they aren't actively blocking or dodge rolling. Like I said before though, DOT's hitting through cloak make it even higher risk than it was before, I mean unless you're out doing things solo with no help...which means you're not playing the way Cyrodiil was intended to be played.

Well, if you're playing a ganker properly, you shouldn't really be getting caught for dots to tick while in cloak.

When I play a ganker (usually if population is imbalanced and it's impossible to do something against the zerg) I get caught maybe 1 time out of 20 or 30.

The ring has made ganking insane. The amount of damage you can generate is crazy.

Ganking has its place, but it shouldn't be hitting 20k incaps on someone with 30k resistances, 3k crit resist and major protection. Which some people are doing right now.

Oakensoul isn't the only reason behind this, but it absolutely has amplified it.

I don't even die to gankers a whole lot. I always have my buffs up, very situationally aware and have quick reactions. But it's happening more since Oakensoul, even though I've made my build tankier.

I mean, I can't speak to the situational awareness and reaction time of those you're playing around, but I can say that if someone around me gets ganked (always hoping I'm not the target, lol), I almost immediately see it and am able to tag them. Of course, I primarily play a charged bow build to facilitate status effects for the rest of the faction to take advantage of occult overload...and not a lot of people are willing to run a bow anymore. The counter is there though should people choose to use it. And when I say melt, they melt without running a sharpened or nirnhoned bow provided that you build correctly.

I feel like when you say "play a ganker properly" you're talking about ganking people running from one spot to another, not trying to gank people off their siege in the back of a siege line. While that may be aggravating to those on the receiving end, I feel like if that's the one area gankers can excel at...that it shouldn't be changed. The simple counter to this is not running around on your own. Unless your build is particularly squishy, your chances of being the target diminish when you have people running with you.

Holycannoli

auz wrote: »

I disagree. If zos wanted large scale combat they would have made it so the game didn't lag everytime there was a large group of players together.

It didn't used to be like this. We had large scale combat back in the day full of siege weapons and massive three-way battles and it performed well.

Chalman keep is memorialized for it back in beta. That was a glorious battle and performance was ok.

With all the sets since then and procs and everything the servers need to keep track of performance has plummeted.

MEBengalsFan2001

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The oaken defenders are in full force, lol. Gonna be a shame to push these half baked arguments only to see it nerfed, and then blame pvpers.

Devs gave you a lil taste of $ juice, and you're hooked in.

I wonder how many players would still use the ring if it only provided the minor buffs instead of the major buffs. Would it still be considered worth using in PVP?

TechMaybeHic

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The oaken defenders are in full force, lol. Gonna be a shame to push these half baked arguments only to see it nerfed, and then blame pvpers.

Devs gave you a lil taste of $ juice, and you're hooked in.

I wonder how many players would still use the ring if it only provided the minor buffs instead of the major buffs. Would it still be considered worth using in PVP?

Not if it did minor for all. Nothing wrong with it giving the usual slotted like major sorc/brut etc, and even major protection which is a slottable and then a little extra to make up for 1 bar. Its the major heroism, berserk, courage, force that are usually not found individually. Giving all those in major is too much. I'd leave major courage, then the rest go minor and it would still be pretty worth while if you need it, but not a boost even if you don't

divnyi

FENGRUSH wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The oaken defenders are in full force, lol. Gonna be a shame to push these half baked arguments only to see it nerfed, and then blame pvpers.

Devs gave you a lil taste of $ juice, and you're hooked in.

It all seems like the same circular defense too.

Oaken isn't that strong. You have to sacrifice a lot to use it. So what if it is as strong as a two bar setup. It really helps players be competitive. But it's not that strong.

How something can help players perform on par with less skills as players with twice as many, and then also somehow not be strong, is completely at odds.

The valid point being seen about this item is it allows people to complete by raising the floor. This is an ongoing issue the devs have struggled to solve. It's important too to get new faces into pvp.

Giving a 1 bar with general buffs ( not major force, hero, protection, berserk) and then giving base stats would help for example, but it wouldn't be an item worth using for veteran players then.

There is a golden rule of deckbuilding in CCGs: it is not enough for card to be fair to be competitive. All good decks have broken cards.

It is not enough for oaken to be fair to be competitive. If you remove all major buffs, item would be dead and forgotten.

Wolfpaw

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Theres no Counterplayer to ganker unless he fails to gank. Oh but guess what, that new ring makes them tankier, have more sustain and do more damage. It's not fun when you're at full health and just die in less thatn a second. Especially new people in PvP, they will NEVER EVER try it again. Killing someone should never ever be that easy unless its a bomber. Gankers in my opinion should not exist now. Its not even high risk high reward anymore. That ring has made it low risk, high reward. Not just that theres groups of gankers now focusing one target. This patch is up there with the DOT patch. Actually terrible. PvP is all over the place. Lackluster and not fun. Do you're self a favour zenimax and invite the best players to your balance team because, at this point I have no idea why you're getting things so drastically wrong.

You can't honestly say this about ganking if you've actually played a ganking build, for you would know that since the cloak nerf and dots hitting through it, pure gankers melt, Oakensoul or not. To be honest, I don't even mind the one shots. I feel like that's what a NB is supposed to be. Bombs are an altogether different story. Single target though, the target SHOULDN'T live if they aren't actively blocking or dodge rolling. Like I said before though, DOT's hitting through cloak make it even higher risk than it was before, I mean unless you're (as the target of a gank) out doing things solo with no help...which means you're not playing the way Cyrodiil was intended to be played.

It's mentality that zos should balance pvp because X is op, it's silly. ESO has far too many combat variables.

"Oh no that DK hit me so hard" because of this and that...NERF! But if you played the game mode as intended that Corrosive, even though it hards...you know as an ULTIMATE should...it's not that bad as all.

But that doesn't satisfy solo players and streamers preferred outcome.

jaws343

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Theres no Counterplayer to ganker unless he fails to gank. Oh but guess what, that new ring makes them tankier, have more sustain and do more damage. It's not fun when you're at full health and just die in less thatn a second. Especially new people in PvP, they will NEVER EVER try it again. Killing someone should never ever be that easy unless its a bomber. Gankers in my opinion should not exist now. Its not even high risk high reward anymore. That ring has made it low risk, high reward. Not just that theres groups of gankers now focusing one target. This patch is up there with the DOT patch. Actually terrible. PvP is all over the place. Lackluster and not fun. Do you're self a favour zenimax and invite the best players to your balance team because, at this point I have no idea why you're getting things so drastically wrong.

You can't honestly say this about ganking if you've actually played a ganking build, for you would know that since the cloak nerf and dots hitting through it, pure gankers melt, Oakensoul or not. To be honest, I don't even mind the one shots. I feel like that's what a NB is supposed to be. Bombs are an altogether different story. Single target though, the target SHOULDN'T live if they aren't actively blocking or dodge rolling. Like I said before though, DOT's hitting through cloak make it even higher risk than it was before, I mean unless you're (as the target of a gank) out doing things solo with no help...which means you're not playing the way Cyrodiil was intended to be played.

It's mentality that zos should balance pvp because X is op, it's silly. ESO has far too many combat variables.

"Oh no that DK hit me so hard" because of this and that...NERF! But if you played the game mode as intended that Corrosive, even though it hards...you know as an ULTIMATE should...it's not that bad as all.

But that doesn't satisfy solo players and streamers preferred outcome.

But there are very clearly things that skew even a modicum of balance way out of whack. Sure, within the middle, there is a fairly large swing of balance, where some sets aren't great and some are top tier, where some classes perform a bit better than others, and where some skills are better than others. The problem isn't in that range, and people rarely complain about things in that range.

The problem is the outliers. Skills/sets that are so bad that are worthless, and skills/sets that are so good they outright dominate and you are literally at a disadvantage by not wearing them. These are the problem. These have to be dealt with for the game to even remotely function properly, more so on the over performing end as that actually impacts combat.

No one is saying "DK hit me hard nerf" who actually is calling for proper adjustments, that's just baseless reductionism. And, if you actually were paying attention instead of trying to vilify PVP players, you would see that many of the players saying that Oakensoul needs to be dealt with, also are the first to tell players who use the "X skill/class did something to me so nerf it" argument that they are wrong.

Edited to add, that as an example, I was 100% a player on these very forums defending and would still defend Dark Convergence. And that set is general perceived as way too overpowered, and I think Oakensoul is too strong.

xylena_lazarow

Wolfpaw wrote: »

This game's PvP is built for largescale group PvP

For most players that means pugging or zerg surfing with other casual randoms. Oakensoul is a big buff for these players, on top of reshaping a stale competitive meta and driving chapter sales. Sounds like the ring was a success.

Holycannoli

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

The oaken defenders are in full force, lol. Gonna be a shame to push these half baked arguments only to see it nerfed, and then blame pvpers.

Devs gave you a lil taste of $ juice, and you're hooked in.

I wonder how many players would still use the ring if it only provided the minor buffs instead of the major buffs. Would it still be considered worth using in PVP?

All minors for the loss of a bar? Not so much.

Wolfpaw

jaws343 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Theres no Counterplayer to ganker unless he fails to gank. Oh but guess what, that new ring makes them tankier, have more sustain and do more damage. It's not fun when you're at full health and just die in less thatn a second. Especially new people in PvP, they will NEVER EVER try it again. Killing someone should never ever be that easy unless its a bomber. Gankers in my opinion should not exist now. Its not even high risk high reward anymore. That ring has made it low risk, high reward. Not just that theres groups of gankers now focusing one target. This patch is up there with the DOT patch. Actually terrible. PvP is all over the place. Lackluster and not fun. Do you're self a favour zenimax and invite the best players to your balance team because, at this point I have no idea why you're getting things so drastically wrong.

You can't honestly say this about ganking if you've actually played a ganking build, for you would know that since the cloak nerf and dots hitting through it, pure gankers melt, Oakensoul or not. To be honest, I don't even mind the one shots. I feel like that's what a NB is supposed to be. Bombs are an altogether different story. Single target though, the target SHOULDN'T live if they aren't actively blocking or dodge rolling. Like I said before though, DOT's hitting through cloak make it even higher risk than it was before, I mean unless you're (as the target of a gank) out doing things solo with no help...which means you're not playing the way Cyrodiil was intended to be played.

It's mentality that zos should balance pvp because X is op, it's silly. ESO has far too many combat variables.

"Oh no that DK hit me so hard" because of this and that...NERF! But if you played the game mode as intended that Corrosive, even though it hards...you know as an ULTIMATE should...it's not that bad as all.

But that doesn't satisfy solo players and streamers preferred outcome.

But there are very clearly things that skew even a modicum of balance way out of whack. Sure, within the middle, there is a fairly large swing of balance, where some sets aren't great and some are top tier, where some classes perform a bit better than others, and where some skills are better than others. The problem isn't in that range, and people rarely complain about things in that range.

The problem is the outliers. Skills/sets that are so bad that are worthless, and skills/sets that are so good they outright dominate and you are literally at a disadvantage by not wearing them. These are the problem. These have to be dealt with for the game to even remotely function properly, more so on the over performing end as that actually impacts combat.

No one is saying "DK hit me hard nerf" who actually is calling for proper adjustments, that's just baseless reductionism. And, if you actually were paying attention instead of trying to vilify PVP players, you would see that many of the players saying that Oakensoul needs to be dealt with, also are the first to tell players who use the "X skill/class did something to me so nerf it" argument that they are wrong.

Edited to add, that as an example, I was 100% a player on these very forums defending and would still defend Dark Convergence. And that set is general perceived as way too overpowered, and I think Oakensoul is too strong.

All I do is PvP (not vilify), and yes prerelease on paper it looked like overkill. In practice, not at all.

When you consider skills & sets in group play these complaints of 1v1 op scenarios & said item like Oak fall short.

Wolfpaw

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

This game's PvP is built for largescale group PvP

For most players that means pugging or zerg surfing with other casual randoms. Oakensoul is a big buff for these players, on top of reshaping a stale competitive meta and driving chapter sales. Sounds like the ring was a success.

Agree

React

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Ahk1lleez wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Theres no Counterplayer to ganker unless he fails to gank. Oh but guess what, that new ring makes them tankier, have more sustain and do more damage. It's not fun when you're at full health and just die in less thatn a second. Especially new people in PvP, they will NEVER EVER try it again. Killing someone should never ever be that easy unless its a bomber. Gankers in my opinion should not exist now. Its not even high risk high reward anymore. That ring has made it low risk, high reward. Not just that theres groups of gankers now focusing one target. This patch is up there with the DOT patch. Actually terrible. PvP is all over the place. Lackluster and not fun. Do you're self a favour zenimax and invite the best players to your balance team because, at this point I have no idea why you're getting things so drastically wrong.

You can't honestly say this about ganking if you've actually played a ganking build, for you would know that since the cloak nerf and dots hitting through it, pure gankers melt, Oakensoul or not. To be honest, I don't even mind the one shots. I feel like that's what a NB is supposed to be. Bombs are an altogether different story. Single target though, the target SHOULDN'T live if they aren't actively blocking or dodge rolling. Like I said before though, DOT's hitting through cloak make it even higher risk than it was before, I mean unless you're out doing things solo with no help...which means you're not playing the way Cyrodiil was intended to be played.

Well, if you're playing a ganker properly, you shouldn't really be getting caught for dots to tick while in cloak.

When I play a ganker (usually if population is imbalanced and it's impossible to do something against the zerg) I get caught maybe 1 time out of 20 or 30.

The ring has made ganking insane. The amount of damage you can generate is crazy.

Ganking has its place, but it shouldn't be hitting 20k incaps on someone with 30k resistances, 3k crit resist and major protection. Which some people are doing right now.

Oakensoul isn't the only reason behind this, but it absolutely has amplified it.

I don't even die to gankers a whole lot. I always have my buffs up, very situationally aware and have quick reactions. But it's happening more since Oakensoul, even though I've made my build tankier.

I mean, I can't speak to the situational awareness and reaction time of those you're playing around, but I can say that if someone around me gets ganked (always hoping I'm not the target, lol), I almost immediately see it and am able to tag them. Of course, I primarily play a charged bow build to facilitate status effects for the rest of the faction to take advantage of occult overload...and not a lot of people are willing to run a bow anymore. The counter is there though should people choose to use it. And when I say melt, they melt without running a sharpened or nirnhoned bow provided that you build correctly.

I feel like when you say "play a ganker properly" you're talking about ganking people running from one spot to another, not trying to gank people off their siege in the back of a siege line. While that may be aggravating to those on the receiving end, I feel like if that's the one area gankers can excel at...that it shouldn't be changed. The simple counter to this is not running around on your own. Unless your build is particularly squishy, your chances of being the target diminish when you have people running with you.

Yeah, because there is a ton of counterplay to this sort of incoming damage. I can totally react to and counter 20-30k damage in one GCD from stealth, from a player I did not know was present in the fight.

Your solution to a completely broken item & mechanic is "don't play solo". Completely dismissive of the actual issue.

ncallstar88

LOS?

TechMaybeHic

ncallstar88 wrote: »

LOS?

As soon as they come out with that tree mount you can move around while riding just in case this stuff comes launching out of the ether.