Dark Convergence is still totally out of balance, totally unreasonable set to exist in PvP

deleted221205-002626

Its not dcon its rush of agony. Agony doesnt apply cc immunity so someone charges in and pulls everyone in with rush, they roll out and then any other dcon after pulls u right back in! even mid roll dodge!

TechMaybeHic

sinnereso wrote: »

Its not dcon its rush of agony. Agony doesnt apply cc immunity so someone charges in and pulls everyone in with rush, they roll out and then any other dcon after pulls u right back in! even mid roll dodge!

Agony might be providing some of the extra pulls and needs to be addressed but DC still looks like an STD infection breakout and it's obnoxious to continually have to avoid or otherwise interrupt the flow of battle.

Mass AOE pulls all should be much smaller and provide CC immunity

CameraBeardThePirate

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

sinnereso wrote: »

Its not dcon its rush of agony. Agony doesnt apply cc immunity so someone charges in and pulls everyone in with rush, they roll out and then any other dcon after pulls u right back in! even mid roll dodge!

Agony might be providing some of the extra pulls and needs to be addressed but DC still looks like an STD infection breakout and it's obnoxious to continually have to avoid or otherwise interrupt the flow of battle.

Mass AOE pulls all should be much smaller and provide CC immunity

In our PvP guild pretty much no one runs DC. No need for it when Rush can be stacked in the group. One person rushes in, and 3 more people can rush the pile to keep everyone grouped up without ever applying CC immunity. It's also a joy when we go up against a group and they have DC since its way easier to counter. DC is a big purple "block now" circle, but you can't see Rush coming.

DaisyRay

So yesterday I was in IC and there were like a hundred blues bombing anything that moved. The funny thing is, a lot of the people I saw that were bombing were also people in this thread, complaining about DC. So you think it's so terrible, but yet you are all still using it? Lol

TechMaybeHic

DaisyRay wrote: »

So yesterday I was in IC and there were like a hundred blues bombing anything that moved. The funny thing is, a lot of the people I saw that were bombing were also people in this thread, complaining about DC. So you think it's so terrible, but yet you are all still using it? Lol

I think there is a lot to say that people who hate it feel compelled to use it to keep up.

DaisyRay

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

So yesterday I was in IC and there were like a hundred blues bombing anything that moved. The funny thing is, a lot of the people I saw that were bombing were also people in this thread, complaining about DC. So you think it's so terrible, but yet you are all still using it? Lol

I think there is a lot to say that people who hate it feel compelled to use it to keep up.

You don't have to bomb people. If this was about Oakensoul, I would agree. However, DC doesn't make people fight any better. They choose to bomb people, but will still condemn others who do it. I see this as them being hypocrites.

TechMaybeHic

DaisyRay wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

So yesterday I was in IC and there were like a hundred blues bombing anything that moved. The funny thing is, a lot of the people I saw that were bombing were also people in this thread, complaining about DC. So you think it's so terrible, but yet you are all still using it? Lol

I think there is a lot to say that people who hate it feel compelled to use it to keep up.

You don't have to bomb people. If this was about Oakensoul, I would agree. However, DC doesn't make people fight any better. They choose to bomb people, but will still condemn others who do it. I see this as them being hypocrites.

It's not the bomb. It's the disruption. Bombs are just the icing on the cake.

DaisyRay

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

So yesterday I was in IC and there were like a hundred blues bombing anything that moved. The funny thing is, a lot of the people I saw that were bombing were also people in this thread, complaining about DC. So you think it's so terrible, but yet you are all still using it? Lol

I think there is a lot to say that people who hate it feel compelled to use it to keep up.

You don't have to bomb people. If this was about Oakensoul, I would agree. However, DC doesn't make people fight any better. They choose to bomb people, but will still condemn others who do it. I see this as them being hypocrites.

It's not the bomb. It's the disruption. Bombs are just the icing on the cake.

So that's why they bombed innocent questers? If they were in cyro using it on actual people or factions who are known for bombing I'd probably consider that. Though this forty plus people bombing questers just because they can. Then they come here to call for a nerf. That's very hypocritical.

Dem_kitkats1

KiltMaster wrote: »

once you get used to d-con it's easy to get out of and counter

since it's came out, it's like 2nd nature now to just not panic, hold block, throw a negate on it, etc.

shouldn't be stacking too, too tight anyways, what with NB bombers and PB bombers still very relevant

sinnereso wrote: »

Its not dcon its rush of agony. Agony doesnt apply cc immunity so someone charges in and pulls everyone in with rush, they roll out and then any other dcon after pulls u right back in! even mid roll dodge!

Most of the groups I've come across use both. They initialize with DCon to stack players into a Rush combo to ensure they can't escape it. One squishy/unaware player, NPC, or issues with performance and it's an instant group wipe for players. Although, it's not the sets themselves that are the issue. Annoying as they might be, it's the combo with Plaguebreak/VD with Occult Overload that makes them a ridiculously easy, op mechanic.

Forcing players to not stack or block as a counterplay simply does not work for a PvP environment, and it reduces the amount of viable playstyles against groups as a result. Bomb or be bombed is pretty much the only effective way to play in large-scale battles, and is greatly overpowered in small-scale fights.

lunaslide

DaisyRay wrote: »

So yesterday I was in IC and there were like a hundred blues bombing anything that moved. The funny thing is, a lot of the people I saw that were bombing were also people in this thread, complaining about DC. So you think it's so terrible, but yet you are all still using it? Lol

Your observation is in no way an argument in favor of keeping this set over-performing the way it is.

DaisyRay

lunaslide wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

So yesterday I was in IC and there were like a hundred blues bombing anything that moved. The funny thing is, a lot of the people I saw that were bombing were also people in this thread, complaining about DC. So you think it's so terrible, but yet you are all still using it? Lol

Your observation is in no way an argument in favor of keeping this set over-performing the way it is.

I never said it was. I merely enjoy pointing out hypocrisy when I see it. I am a very toxic individual you see.

Elendir2am

DaisyRay wrote: »

I never said it was. I merely enjoy pointing out hypocrisy when I see it. I am a very toxic individual you see.

Hypocrisy would be denouncing others for using this set and using it themself.
Using set and thinking that it need to be nerfed make their position stronger.

DaisyRay

Elendir2am wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

I never said it was. I merely enjoy pointing out hypocrisy when I see it. I am a very toxic individual you see.

Hypocrisy would be denouncing others for using this set and using it themself.
Using set and thinking that it need to be nerfed make their position stronger.

What do you think they are writing in this post? They very much are denouncing it and insulting people who use it. Yet, they themselves use it for fun or to get easy ap.

TechMaybeHic

sinnereso wrote: »

Its not dcon its rush of agony. Agony doesnt apply cc immunity so someone charges in and pulls everyone in with rush, they roll out and then any other dcon after pulls u right back in! even mid roll dodge!

Y'all started talking about it and a couple days later, I am seeing this all over the place

SaffronCitrusflower

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

xDeusEJRx

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

The set has been updated about 3 or 4 different times. it's a little disingenuous to try to imply it hasn't been modified to be more reasonable and fair. They added a 12 second cooldown then 15 second cooldown and then increased amount of players needed to be pulled in to deal any relatively high damage. It's been receiving tons of adjustments to it and to insinuate it hasn't is a fallacy.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like damage procs like dark convergence but DC in its current form was better than when it did 50k damage to 1 player a year ago.

Dem_kitkats1

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

Yeah, since they put a longer cooldown DC it's been the least problematic thing that ballgroups have in their arsenal. Especially when Rush of Agony is used more prominently now.

SaffronCitrusflower

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

The set has been updated about 3 or 4 different times. it's a little disingenuous to try to imply it hasn't been modified to be more reasonable and fair. They added a 12 second cooldown then 15 second cooldown and then increased amount of players needed to be pulled in to deal any relatively high damage. It's been receiving tons of adjustments to it and to insinuate it hasn't is a fallacy.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like damage procs like dark convergence but DC in its current form was better than when it did 50k damage to 1 player a year ago.

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

Yeah, since they put a longer cooldown DC it's been the least problematic thing that ballgroups have in their arsenal. Especially when Rush of Agony is used more prominently now.

Now's your chance to explain why every single ball group in the game is still crutching on Dark Convergence as their primary tool to control the fight and get kills....if it's not still grossly OP as you're trying to claim.

deleted221205-002626

lunaslide wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

So yesterday I was in IC and there were like a hundred blues bombing anything that moved. The funny thing is, a lot of the people I saw that were bombing were also people in this thread, complaining about DC. So you think it's so terrible, but yet you are all still using it? Lol

Your observation is in no way an argument in favor of keeping this set over-performing the way it is.

Your missing the point that DCON is weak and super easily avoidable compared to agony which does exactly the same thing with no visable effect to avoid and no cc immunity so they can do it repeatedly forever...

deleted221205-002626

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

The set has been updated about 3 or 4 different times. it's a little disingenuous to try to imply it hasn't been modified to be more reasonable and fair. They added a 12 second cooldown then 15 second cooldown and then increased amount of players needed to be pulled in to deal any relatively high damage. It's been receiving tons of adjustments to it and to insinuate it hasn't is a fallacy.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like damage procs like dark convergence but DC in its current form was better than when it did 50k damage to 1 player a year ago.

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

Yeah, since they put a longer cooldown DC it's been the least problematic thing that ballgroups have in their arsenal. Especially when Rush of Agony is used more prominently now.

Now's your chance to explain why every single ball group in the game is still crutching on Dark Convergence as their primary tool to control the fight and get kills....if it's not still grossly OP as you're trying to claim.

you might see 1 dcon but your getting pulled by 5+ agony's!! this is what people dont seem to get =p

SaffronCitrusflower

sinnereso wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

The set has been updated about 3 or 4 different times. it's a little disingenuous to try to imply it hasn't been modified to be more reasonable and fair. They added a 12 second cooldown then 15 second cooldown and then increased amount of players needed to be pulled in to deal any relatively high damage. It's been receiving tons of adjustments to it and to insinuate it hasn't is a fallacy.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like damage procs like dark convergence but DC in its current form was better than when it did 50k damage to 1 player a year ago.

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

Yeah, since they put a longer cooldown DC it's been the least problematic thing that ballgroups have in their arsenal. Especially when Rush of Agony is used more prominently now.

Now's your chance to explain why every single ball group in the game is still crutching on Dark Convergence as their primary tool to control the fight and get kills....if it's not still grossly OP as you're trying to claim.

you might see 1 dcon but your getting pulled by 5+ agony's!! this is what people dont seem to get =p

Yet somehow there is still always the visible Dark Convergence proc going off and the pull is to the blue dot at the center of the Dark Convergence animation. If the pull was coming from something else, like RoA, you wouldn't be getting pulled to the obvious Dark Convergence animation. As you say, you wouldn't be being pulled to the blue dot at the middle of the Dark Convergence proc it if it was RoA. Not to mention the unmistakable sound effect that goes with the Dark Convergence proc.

TechMaybeHic

Really all these mass pull sets should go. Especially rush of agony. I think you just see DC more because ROA doesn't have a tell, then it's often followed up by DC which projects before it pulls, because you can get pulled again after ROA. So it feels like you are pulled by a DC you couldn't see as soon as it shows, so you break free right away but there's nothing to break free of, then DC pull actually starts

xDeusEJRx

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

The set has been updated about 3 or 4 different times. it's a little disingenuous to try to imply it hasn't been modified to be more reasonable and fair. They added a 12 second cooldown then 15 second cooldown and then increased amount of players needed to be pulled in to deal any relatively high damage. It's been receiving tons of adjustments to it and to insinuate it hasn't is a fallacy.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like damage procs like dark convergence but DC in its current form was better than when it did 50k damage to 1 player a year ago.

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

Yeah, since they put a longer cooldown DC it's been the least problematic thing that ballgroups have in their arsenal. Especially when Rush of Agony is used more prominently now.

Now's your chance to explain why every single ball group in the game is still crutching on Dark Convergence as their primary tool to control the fight and get kills....if it's not still grossly OP as you're trying to claim.

I never claimed it's not grossly op. I claimed you're misconstruing the facts. You claimed "how is it possible this set has not been modified to be more reasonable" which is factually wrong. They've fine tuned this set multiple times.

If it still did 50k damage to 1 player like it did before you'd be getting hit for 200k+ dark convergence procs in a zerg with a very pitiful cooldown rate at that. You'd have to play hot potato every step you take in PVP. Irrespective of how many people you roll with in PVP.

I stated that I do not like damage procs like this in general

It would be very disingenuous to imply that the set has not been fine tuned, when they have acknowledged on multiple occasions of the broken nature of it and been attempting to fine-tune it.

SaffronCitrusflower

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

The set has been updated about 3 or 4 different times. it's a little disingenuous to try to imply it hasn't been modified to be more reasonable and fair. They added a 12 second cooldown then 15 second cooldown and then increased amount of players needed to be pulled in to deal any relatively high damage. It's been receiving tons of adjustments to it and to insinuate it hasn't is a fallacy.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like damage procs like dark convergence but DC in its current form was better than when it did 50k damage to 1 player a year ago.

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

The problems with Dark Convergence set continues still. Every ball group is still crutching on this set and using it to farm solo players. It still pulls from outside it's designated range and due to recent increases in lag in cyrodiil, it's nearly impossible to break free from or block/walk out of.

How is it possible that this set has not been modified to be more reasonable and fair after all this time?

Yeah, since they put a longer cooldown DC it's been the least problematic thing that ballgroups have in their arsenal. Especially when Rush of Agony is used more prominently now.

Now's your chance to explain why every single ball group in the game is still crutching on Dark Convergence as their primary tool to control the fight and get kills....if it's not still grossly OP as you're trying to claim.

I never claimed it's not grossly op. I claimed you're misconstruing the facts. You claimed "how is it possible this set has not been modified to be more reasonable" which is factually wrong. They've fine tuned this set multiple times.

If it still did 50k damage to 1 player like it did before you'd be getting hit for 200k+ dark convergence procs in a zerg with a very pitiful cooldown rate at that. You'd have to play hot potato every step you take in PVP. Irrespective of how many people you roll with in PVP.

I stated that I do not like damage procs like this in general

It would be very disingenuous to imply that the set has not been fine tuned, when they have acknowledged on multiple occasions of the broken nature of it and been attempting to fine-tune it.

So which is it? Is the set grossly OP, or is it fine tuned? You are saying two different things here.

boi_anachronism_

I mean if you have any kind of latency your basically boned. You don't have time to block or anything before being nuked. 99% of the time when I die. I find out I died from it on my recap screen or am already trapped and losing health before I even see any indicator...

Dem_kitkats1

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Now's your chance to explain why every single ball group in the game is still crutching on Dark Convergence as their primary tool to control the fight and get kills....if it's not still grossly OP as you're trying to claim.

I'm not trying to justify what ballgroups use, but DCON was nerfed quite heavily. If Rush of Agony wasn't doing so much work in conjunction with it, DCON is pretty lackluster on it's own now. So much so that, from my experience, I've seen some ballgroups begin to skip it altogether. The set itself is not the problem anymore was all I was getting at.

MasterSpatula

I used to PVP pretty regularly. I stopped primarily because of Dark Convergence.

The last four days have done nothing but reinforce the notion that I made the right call.

People who use this set should be shunned, and that's not hyperbole. I mean it. This set should never have been allowed anywhere near the live game, but once it was in, it should never have become popular. Players should be terrified of the social repercussions of being seen as someone who would sink so low as to use Dark Convergence.

I don't know if any Daedric Prince has a realm named "Pathos," but there should be, and ZOS should create a PVP campaign named after that realm. And anyone who uses Dark Convercence should be ported to that campaign and only allowed PVP in Pathos. (Okay, that was hyperbole. But barely.)

TechMaybeHic

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I used to PVP pretty regularly. I stopped primarily because of Dark Convergence.

The last four days have done nothing but reinforce the notion that I made the right call.

People who use this set should be shunned, and that's not hyperbole. I mean it. This set should never have been allowed anywhere near the live game, but once it was in, it should never have become popular. Players should be terrified of the social repercussions of being seen as someone who would sink so low as to use Dark Convergence.

I don't know if any Daedric Prince has a realm named "Pathos," but there should be, and ZOS should create a PVP campaign named after that realm. And anyone who uses Dark Convercence should be ported to that campaign and only allowed PVP in Pathos. (Okay, that was hyperbole. But barely.)

I hate the set but use it at least on my Necro. Rush of Agony is even worse as at least with Dark Con, you break free and your good if break free works. RoA gets chained so you better pop an immovable pot or hold block as you try to get away.

Both make for annoying gameplay though

sharquez

Pull effects aren't going anywhere. They are a staple of gaming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJj9-iVcZ1A

haelgaan

Dodge Roll still breaks PvP for everyone trying to play the game using actual skills.

It's used by trolls who think escaping Dark Convergence is easy

The free escape and avoidance of damage eliminates all player skill gaps and that just shouldn't be possible.