Dark Convergence is still totally out of balance, totally unreasonable set to exist in PvP

xFocused

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

It's such a trash set now, doesn't even pull at point blank range. Probably time to change to rush of agony.

This. I just wrote this comment on another thread but it's definitely not working as intended lately. Animation still works but no matter the AoE skill you use to proc it, the pull just isn't there right now. I can barely get it to pull NPC's at resources. They need to either remove it completely or fix it

Cuddlypuff

xFocused wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

It's such a trash set now, doesn't even pull at point blank range. Probably time to change to rush of agony.

This. I just wrote this comment on another thread but it's definitely not working as intended lately. Animation still works but no matter the AoE skill you use to proc it, the pull just isn't there right now. I can barely get it to pull NPC's at resources. They need to either remove it completely or fix it

Yes I only noticed it after coming back from my Anniversary Jubilee box opening / cake break. It's not the known bug where it doesn't pull outside of melee range. It just doesn't pull at all most of the time, usually during lag. Guess performance has hit yet another low.

xFocused

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

xFocused wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

It's such a trash set now, doesn't even pull at point blank range. Probably time to change to rush of agony.

This. I just wrote this comment on another thread but it's definitely not working as intended lately. Animation still works but no matter the AoE skill you use to proc it, the pull just isn't there right now. I can barely get it to pull NPC's at resources. They need to either remove it completely or fix it

Yes I only noticed it after coming back from my Anniversary Jubilee box opening / cake break. It's not the known bug where it doesn't pull outside of melee range. It just doesn't pull at all most of the time, usually during lag. Guess performance has hit yet another low.

I logged out yesterday because of it. My magro uses it for bombs and after watching people just walk through it was kind of the breaking point, well that and the lag, lol

Veinblood1965

Dang it! I was hoping to go a full week without seeing a Dark Convergence or Fake Tank thread. Thank you for ruining my streak.

sharquez

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Ranged bombing from stealth SHOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE in a PvP environment. That the devs at ZOS promote this as a thing sends a horrible message regarding their competence.

Enigma Magnus Darkseer Sandking and Shadowfiend from one of the worlds most popular mobas DOTA2 say hello.

This isn't a new thing and its not about incompetence on the Devs part.

EmEm_Oh

EdmondDontes wrote: »

As the title says, Dark Convergence still breaks PvP for everyone trying to play the game using actual skills.

It's only used by ball groups and trolls who think ranged bombing from stealth should be something that exists in a video game.

The free pull and the OP damage eliminates all player skill gaps and that just shouldn't be possible.

One solution: Get a sorc to streak the necro or the dcon user. Problem solved. I do it when on a sorc. Ruins their day. And if you launch some dots before---streak---attack again, they go down really fast. The key is to call out which one is using dcon. So, some sort of war strategy is required.

jasonleitch1_ESO

Dark Convergence during heavy lag in Cyrodiil still does not work as intented. Since the last update I have been pulled while out of range, while holding block, and pulled after dodge rolling. As my character is primarily a speed/CC build, I believe that the server just does not seem to know the actual position of my character and not syncing correctly.

This will likely continue until ZOS decides to fix their server code. Honestly, after seeing the performance issues after the last update, I no longer have faith that ZOS is capable of fixing these issues. So sad as I love this game when it works.

NOTE: Job listings for ZOS gave me some hope for this game until I realized that ZOS is planning a new project. The new hirings may NOT therefore be for the ESO server code rewrite. I have not seen any offical word for the allocation of new hires so I am uncertain but not optimistic.

WordsOfPower

Boycott Dark Convergence. Yeah, you.

And Plaguebreak.

They are completely overtuned and frankly silly.

No place in this great game

CameraBeardThePirate

Gaeliannas wrote: »

Ishtharo wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

As the title says, Dark Convergence still breaks PvP for everyone trying to play the game using actual skills.

It's only used by ball groups and trolls who think ranged bombing from stealth should be something that exists in a video game.

The free pull and the OP damage eliminates all player skill gaps and that just shouldn't be possible.

Hold block, sovled your problem for you.

That was easy, thanks! Now solve the lag issue so the game actually registers my block when I do it. Thanks again in advance!

It looks like he solved the lag issue for you

TechMaybeHic

Its much better when the lag is not horrible.

Gaeliannas

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Gaeliannas wrote: »

Ishtharo wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

As the title says, Dark Convergence still breaks PvP for everyone trying to play the game using actual skills.

It's only used by ball groups and trolls who think ranged bombing from stealth should be something that exists in a video game.

The free pull and the OP damage eliminates all player skill gaps and that just shouldn't be possible.

Hold block, sovled your problem for you.

That was easy, thanks! Now solve the lag issue so the game actually registers my block when I do it. Thanks again in advance!

It looks like he solved the lag issue for you

Guess I should have asked sooner!

CameraBeardThePirate

Gaeliannas wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Gaeliannas wrote: »

Ishtharo wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

As the title says, Dark Convergence still breaks PvP for everyone trying to play the game using actual skills.

It's only used by ball groups and trolls who think ranged bombing from stealth should be something that exists in a video game.

The free pull and the OP damage eliminates all player skill gaps and that just shouldn't be possible.

Hold block, sovled your problem for you.

That was easy, thanks! Now solve the lag issue so the game actually registers my block when I do it. Thanks again in advance!

It looks like he solved the lag issue for you

Guess I should have asked sooner!

You heard it here first, the lag was fixed because Gaeliannas asked for it

EdmondDontes

WordsOfPower wrote: »

Boycott Dark Convergence. Yeah, you.

And Plaguebreak.

They are completely overtuned and frankly silly.

No place in this great game

I won't play with sets as out of balance as Dark Convergence and Plaguebreak. It feels like cheating to me. So I've already boycotted them. But then again I won't play an NB either in PvP because cloak during a fight feels even more like cheating to me, and it practically is cheating. Whoever thought a player being able to engage in a long term fight while also being invisible was fair in a PvP situation needs a stern talking to about what is fair game play and what is not.

Ankael07

WordsOfPower wrote: »

Boycott Dark Convergence. Yeah, you.

And Plaguebreak.

They are completely overtuned and frankly silly.

No place in this great game

Great idea.Boycott Plaguebreak by refusing to purge and staying 8 meters away from those infected by it also boycotting Dark Convergence by performing block during the first second of the AOE.

If everyone did this together Im 100% sure they will stop using these sets.

Cuddlypuff

EdmondDontes wrote: »

WordsOfPower wrote: »

Boycott Dark Convergence. Yeah, you.

And Plaguebreak.

They are completely overtuned and frankly silly.

No place in this great game

I won't play with sets as out of balance as Dark Convergence and Plaguebreak. It feels like cheating to me. So I've already boycotted them. But then again I won't play an NB either in PvP because cloak during a fight feels even more like cheating to me, and it practically is cheating. Whoever thought a player being able to engage in a long term fight while also being invisible was fair in a PvP situation needs a stern talking to about what is fair game play and what is not.

Are you boycotting detection potions too?

Dracane

I hasn't resulted in deaths of mine yet, just of rotations being interrupted.
I am afraid whatever they do, it might make it useless for pve, where it's so much fun to use. Even if they reduced the radius to 8 meters, it would probably become pointless already.

DizzyMac

Block & walk out of it

Cuddlypuff

DizzyMac wrote: »

Block & walk out of it

Real ones blockcast right through it

olsborg

Dark Convergence is the one proccset that just immediately put me off playing with proccsets, so I 100% only play Ravenwatch and will continue to do so until they remove the ruleset entirely, and then I will prob quit eso altogether. Most proccsets that either deal dmg or heal are overshadowing any other sets for a build (so thats stupid)and they are not fun to play against or with in my opinion.

Feaky

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

WordsOfPower wrote: »

Boycott Dark Convergence. Yeah, you.

And Plaguebreak.

They are completely overtuned and frankly silly.

No place in this great game

I won't play with sets as out of balance as Dark Convergence and Plaguebreak. It feels like cheating to me. So I've already boycotted them. But then again I won't play an NB either in PvP because cloak during a fight feels even more like cheating to me, and it practically is cheating. Whoever thought a player being able to engage in a long term fight while also being invisible was fair in a PvP situation needs a stern talking to about what is fair game play and what is not.

Are you boycotting detection potions too?

...and there are at least 4 abilities to detect or reveal invisible opponents.

Cuddlypuff

The trend I've noticed in all these [snip] threads is casual players really hate dark convergence but vet players really hate plaguebreak. Just some food for thought.

[edited for bait]

ResidentContrarian

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

The trend I've noticed in all these complaint threads is casual players really hate dark convergence but vet players really hate plaguebreak. Just some food for thought.

I would say plaguebreak definitely is the one to hate more because its not just a DoT, but VD all-in-one.

Dark Convergence is annoying when the game lags or desyncs, but so is every other pull and stun effect...

TechMaybeHic

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

The trend I've noticed in all these complaint threads is casual players really hate dark convergence but vet players really hate plaguebreak. Just some food for thought.

DC is easy to deal with while not in terrible lag. Plaguebreak is easy to deal with when not around Squishies. Neither really should bother a decent player that's not in a zerg if things work right. Both are still overloaded in what they do. And things have only recently started working right.

Cuddlypuff

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

The trend I've noticed in all these complaint threads is casual players really hate dark convergence but vet players really hate plaguebreak. Just some food for thought.

DC is easy to deal with while not in terrible lag. Plaguebreak is easy to deal with when not around Squishies. Neither really should bother a decent player that's not in a zerg if things work right. Both are still overloaded in what they do. And things have only recently started working right.

DC is completely ignored by immovable or snow treaders which any good player or ball group uses. It is purely a zerg stomper set. The one use case where you might get lucky with it against optimized groups is if you manage to yoink in some pugs into the ball group's path and use the aforementioned pugs to VD + PB the ball.

Plaguebreak is actually ridiculously OP but most people don't seem to understand how to use it or defend against it. Outside of negate, it is the only equalizer against HP and healing that exists in the game. It is single handedly the reason why ball groups have lost so much power (no purge crutching). On top of that, a plagued group will just explode to the next burst.

neferpitou73

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

The trend I've noticed in all these complaint threads is casual players really hate dark convergence but vet players really hate plaguebreak. Just some food for thought.

DC is easy to deal with while not in terrible lag. Plaguebreak is easy to deal with when not around Squishies. Neither really should bother a decent player that's not in a zerg if things work right. Both are still overloaded in what they do. And things have only recently started working right.

DC is completely ignored by immovable or snow treaders which any good player or ball group uses. It is purely a zerg stomper set. The one use case where you might get lucky with it against optimized groups is if you manage to yoink in some pugs into the ball group's path and use the aforementioned pugs to VD + PB the ball.

Plaguebreak is actually ridiculously OP but most people don't seem to understand how to use it or defend against it. Outside of negate, it is the only equalizer against HP and healing that exists in the game. It is single handedly the reason why ball groups have lost so much power (no purge crutching). On top of that, a plagued group will just explode to the next burst.

To my knowledge snow treaders does not affect DC because it is hard CC and not soft.

I think you're overestimating PB. My ballgroup barely feels it. We've just scaled our heals up and use the utterly broken pain's refuge passive to deal with siege damage. However we do use it to farm pugs; for which it is utterly broken. It's for that reason I dislike the set.

Of course I might not just be encountering folks who use it effectively. The only time I see it in a death recap is if a pug procs it on us or if an enemy ball group wipes us.

TechMaybeHic

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

The trend I've noticed in all these complaint threads is casual players really hate dark convergence but vet players really hate plaguebreak. Just some food for thought.

DC is easy to deal with while not in terrible lag. Plaguebreak is easy to deal with when not around Squishies. Neither really should bother a decent player that's not in a zerg if things work right. Both are still overloaded in what they do. And things have only recently started working right.

DC is completely ignored by immovable or snow treaders which any good player or ball group uses. It is purely a zerg stomper set. The one use case where you might get lucky with it against optimized groups is if you manage to yoink in some pugs into the ball group's path and use the aforementioned pugs to VD + PB the ball.

Plaguebreak is actually ridiculously OP but most people don't seem to understand how to use it or defend against it. Outside of negate, it is the only equalizer against HP and healing that exists in the game. It is single handedly the reason why ball groups have lost so much power (no purge crutching). On top of that, a plagued group will just explode to the next burst.

Imovability pots are only up a fraction of time. DC is constantly up in large fights. Snowtreaders does nothing for it other than if someone is spamming roots and slows on the bomb. But again; lag made it better than it is, and it is still overloaded regardless of effectiveness. Massive AOE Pull, stun, and damage? Yeah. Overloaded.

PB is completely controlled by decent players. They don't purge and just stack HOTs in stead. Only PUGs getting blown up become a problem. Or; when I use it and I see enemy guards around enemy players, I will hammer the guards. Good players probably are not going to be there unless they have to though. Also overloaded in that it does what VD does in a lighter sense, as well as a DOT, as well as also a purge counter.

Cuddlypuff

PB and VD are not supposed to work in controlled environments. They work because Cyrodiil is full of randomness. For example, you can tab target and tailgate known pugstars or squishies and blow them up as they walk through a group. You can also plague mobs anywhere on rss/inside keeps and use DC to throw them onto groups too. A single plagued mob does ~10K damage on death.

It's one thing to say you won't die in open field with no pugs around to 2 bombers. But in practical situations like sieges or kiting phases, wipes will happen due to factors outside your control.

Yasha

I agree, the set is ridiculous in pvp. Even with whatever nerfs it has had it is still an extremely powerful skill that only exacerbates underlying issues in the game and is simply not fun.

I don't like proc sets in general, but this one is so bad/annoying, I just cannot fathom how the dev team designed this (and a couple of other sets) specifically for pvp. It just shows a complete lack of understanding about how pvp works in this game, or perhaps the people consulting on pvp are part of the ball groups that use sets like this to farm pugs.

Theignson

This set is awful. The worst thing is it is only useful for the organized ball groups and they crutch on it to a ridiculous extent.

When it is PvZerg the most depressing thing is the hordes of zerglings, many in organized groups, spamming DC with VD/harmony/colossus against the completely outnumbered pugs facing the zerg.

Last night on PC NA GH, AD and DC poplocked and together gated EP. They wouldn't fight each other. It was 8 bars vs 3. EP had one scroll left and no keeps ---

and 4 ball groups on the scroll (2 ad 2 DC with from 4-12 members each) were running DC + assorted bombs, against EP playing PvZerg against zerg that already outnumbered us 3 to 1.

DC going off everywhere on the scroll. The ball groups would run into scroll, plant their DC bombs, run away (god forbid they fight conventionally) and repeat when they built their ulti.

PvZerg is not fun to begin with and this set makes it even worse

xaraan

I think the biggest problem with Dark Conv. (now that lag is not as bad) is the way it's used by organized groups. A set that is meant to break groups and zergs, is used most effectively by them. Some will say that's the case of a good organized group - well, that applies to every skill and set in the game. Doesn't mean it can't be denied to them for particular skills and sets that are meant to be group busters.

Doing something like limiting overlap would work wonders. I've watched these ball groups just run through a zerg, they just need to be tanky-ish, stack healing and then all arm prox-det, when 12 guys hit you with a little bit of damage, it adds up, so it doesn't even have to be hard hitting. Just add in a couple spin to win guys while half the group drops DC circles all over, it's just easy mode.

Personally, I would not allow prox-det to stack. Prox-det is meant to be used by lesser numbers against greater and I rarely see that outside of a bomber. If you are within another allies prox-det radius, then yours wouldn't count (no one could take prox det damage more than once within so many seconds). Same with Dark Conv. I'd put some sort of limitation on stacking them in an area or making you completely immune to the pull for like 30 seconds+ after breaking free from one. Last thing would be spin to win - there just should not be an AoE execute in the game lol.

I think organized groups are always going to trounce zergs and out perform them, as it should be. But if they design skills and sets to address stacked groups and don't design them so they aren't also abused by those groups, then they aren't designed well.