Undeath passive.

Urzigurumash

And then, once you've digested what we're saying, that Undeath is indispensable even with the drawbacks, that the drawbacks do nothing to make Mortality better on any build in PvP whatsoever, ask yourself,

Is that true for Pariah? Is every single PvP spec in the game incontrovertibly better off with Pariah than without? No

If you like Vampire RP, then welcome to our side - there's no RP value in Vampire whatsoever if every single player is one, is there?

If you think Vampire needs buffs to be more relevant in PvE, then welcome to our side - this skill line can't possibly stand a buff when it has the single most powerful non-class passive in the game for PvP, can it?

Urzigurumash

SoulwayFilth wrote: »

Instead fix the healing & health regen. Issue is more related to a dodge roll or block with a heal on some of the stronger classes just pops you back to full.

You're absolutely correct here. As said elsewhere Undeath is so powerful particularly because it affords us another moment to block, roll-dodge, LOS, Heal, etc. That's why you can "feel" the moment you drop off to Stage 2. Nothing that happens above 50% health is really that important. Maybe that's only a matter of perception but ultimately players make build choices off of perception / feelings. Which is the whole point of everybody saying Undeath needs an adjustment. We all want players to be able to make meaningful choices for their builds.

There's nothing so ubiquitous in competitive PvP Builds as Stage 3 Vamp. Sugar Skulls came close for a minute during the Malacath era but I think many prefer Mag/Stam Regen foods now, and Tri-Pots certainly come close but we all like Immovables and Detects and such too.

But, for those who say Undeath facilitates the use of Eviscerate, by far the best of the non-Ult Vamp skills, that's definitely a great point, and the main reason why I think the absolutely best option is simply more exclusive sub-classes.

However, in the meantime, class balance perturbs us all, so again, remove the Flame Damage taken penalty from Vampire, for now. Because even though Flame Damage does more damage to a Mortal than a Vampire, point for point, it does more damage to a Vampire than any other type of damage.

Vevvev

Make Undeath mitigate up to 30% of damage based on your missing health, but make that mitigation exclude Fire and Fighter's Guild abilities. Seems like a thematic and fair nerf.

Lailaamell

Urzigurumash wrote: »

And then, once you've digested what we're saying, that Undeath is indispensable even with the drawbacks, that the drawbacks do nothing to make Mortality better on any build in PvP whatsoever, ask yourself,

Is that true for Pariah? Is every single PvP spec in the game incontrovertibly better off with Pariah than without? No

If you like Vampire RP, then welcome to our side - there's no RP value in Vampire whatsoever if every single player is one, is there?

If you think Vampire needs buffs to be more relevant in PvE, then welcome to our side - this skill line can't possibly stand a buff when it has the single most powerful non-class passive in the game for PvP, can it?

Vampire should not be able to be healed from any source outside vampire drain and skills like resto should harm vampire as its light magic vs an purely dark and undead creature but like currently vampire skills are just awfull bad i rather zeni delete skill line make vampirism a skin rather it would help performance for its 1 less skill line to load and like there is no way to actually make vampire function without it either become broken or just useless with no real reason to use it atm it is just mostly sneak speed

Lailaamell

Vevvev wrote: »

Make Undeath mitigate up to 30% of damage based on your missing health, but make that mitigation exclude Fire and Fighter's Guild abilities. Seems like a thematic and fair nerf.

Maybe add in healing talen reduction as a cost for migation

Vevvev

Lailaamell wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Make Undeath mitigate up to 30% of damage based on your missing health, but make that mitigation exclude Fire and Fighter's Guild abilities. Seems like a thematic and fair nerf.

Maybe add in healing talen reduction as a cost for migation

That's already a thing if you actually use Mistform, Blood for Blood, or Blood Frenzy already.

DrSlaughtr

Undeath 30% isn't going to save you if a heavy inferno attack one hits your vamp 3 build dead.

maxjapank

Undeath should be nerfed to 10%, just as Major Protection was. Being a separate buff, it would still be strong.

Lailaamell

maxjapank wrote: »

Undeath should be nerfed to 10%, just as Major Protection was. Being a separate buff, it would still be strong.

Maybe they could add the more dmg reductuon undead ads the less you can heal like at 30% healing taken is reduced by 100% that would be a trade off. But then you hit the point you get 30 most atks woulf be able to kill you anyway