Overland Content Feedback Thread

CP5

That's a point I always find amusing. "We can't do this because it would split up players?" Well, plenty of people aren't engaging with the content, or the game for that matter, who would if something was done. "It isn't worth the resources because it is too niche?" Well, any group of players in the game can say that, from companions to tribune, to anything pvp related or related to end game pve, not every piece of content will cater to everyone. So for now, so long as ZOS chooses to do nothing in this regard I'll only really be logging in to do group content with friends, and crashing constantly as I am right now, apparently.

Muizer

disky wrote: »

If that's the philosophy, then it's flawed. Not everyone wants to raid, not everyone wants to run dungeons. It's a fundamentally different kind of experience that I would argue most fans of the Elder Scrolls series aren't looking for.

For what it's worth, as one of those fans, I agree. I'm not sure it's specifically about the difficulty of the fights though. That is part of it, but there's also the element of suspense. My recollection of Oblivion and Skyrim is that there were actually enemies I would rather avoid (and the game could be completed without fighting them). That introduced an element of suspense. A feeling of carefully glancing around every corner before venturing into a new space. I don't think that exists anywhere in ESO (edit:except where there's PvP going on I suppose)

CP5

Muizer wrote: »

disky wrote: »

If that's the philosophy, then it's flawed. Not everyone wants to raid, not everyone wants to run dungeons. It's a fundamentally different kind of experience that I would argue most fans of the Elder Scrolls series aren't looking for.

For what it's worth, as one of those fans, I agree. I'm not sure it's specifically about the difficulty of the fights though. That is part of it, but there's also the element of suspense. My recollection of Oblivion and Skyrim is that there were actually enemies I would rather avoid (and the game could be completed without fighting them). That introduced an element of suspense. A feeling of carefully glancing around every corner before venturing into a new space. I don't think that exists anywhere in ESO (edit:except where there's PvP going on I suppose)

Going north first out of Goodsprings in New Vegas comes to mind...

SilverBride

colossalvoids wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I get frustrated hearing how "mind-numbingly boring" the game that I love is. Overland is not boring. Some players may be bored with it, but overland itself is not boring. Many of us find it fun and engaging just as it is.

And I'm frustrated when people claim the game is fine for everyone, whilst a lot of players doesn't feel that way. For us it IS boring and it's not fun when you're in overland, so we want something to be done for our enjoyment also without taking anything significant away from ones who enjoy how things currently are.

You already have what you like, now others also want something for them, that's pretty simple.

Overland is at a level where everyone can succeed at playing through the story. That doesn't mean everyone will enjoy it, just like not everyone enjoys PvP, or trials, or housing etc.. But it does need to stay at a level where all can succeed.

It is impossible to make a game where everyone will enjoy every aspect of it, but I think they do a good job of providing a wide range of content so there is something for everyone.

I do not want to see overland changed when overland isn't the problem. If some players are bored with it that doesn't mean it's flawed.

There are other options rather than changing something that for most is working fine. Such as challenge banners for bosses and debuffs etc.. I do support these because they can make overland more enjoyable for some players while not changing what is working for others.

colossalvoids

SilverBride wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I get frustrated hearing how "mind-numbingly boring" the game that I love is. Overland is not boring. Some players may be bored with it, but overland itself is not boring. Many of us find it fun and engaging just as it is.

And I'm frustrated when people claim the game is fine for everyone, whilst a lot of players doesn't feel that way. For us it IS boring and it's not fun when you're in overland, so we want something to be done for our enjoyment also without taking anything significant away from ones who enjoy how things currently are.

You already have what you like, now others also want something for them, that's pretty simple.

Overland is at a level where everyone can succeed at playing through the story. That doesn't mean everyone will enjoy it, just like not everyone enjoys PvP, or trials, or housing etc.. But it does need to stay at a level where all can succeed.

It is impossible to make a game where everyone will enjoy every aspect of it, but I think they do a good job of providing a wide range of content so there is something for everyone.

I do not want to see overland changed when overland isn't the problem. If some players are bored with it that doesn't mean it's flawed.

There are other options rather than changing something that for most is working fine. Such as challenge banners for bosses and debuffs etc.. I do support these because they can make overland more enjoyable for some players while not changing what is working for others.

When I'm playing my success measured in amount of fun I've had, not just "getting stuff done". Not succeeding currently.

Overland is at a level where everyone can succeed at playing through the story, as you've said, but people are surely want to enjoy their experience and not being bored out of their mind with it. And we roughly know how it's achievable, the whole thread emerged from it. So it surely doesn't need to stay the way it is currently, as no other mode should stay the way it is. Stagnation is death, as we'll move on eventually. Many did already.

So, housing should definitely change, it's so frustratingly limited that most requests are basic as it can be - more slots, way more slots, combined items etc. PvP want balance, new modes, new content etc, a lot of stuff is missing throughout the years of no attention. Pve will get solo dungeon mode, which was asked since beginning of times. And pve needs an optional difficulty increase, which a lot of people asked for, because current mode isn't cutting it for us.

It's not possible to make a great game if you've never tried to make it such, I agree. But I'm my eyes they're capable of it, hence the thread. Wouldn't bang my head knowing thad developer is unable to make a good product in a first place.

Overland isn't the problem for you. And for some people like you. But it absolutely is for us. If quite a big part of population thinks it's flawed, guess there's a chance that it is actually flawed. It already was completely changed one time, with time passing we've found out there's more to it.

You mentioned options, but that is what most of us is already talking about the most. That's the change. You're not willing to see any changes, but you're still fine with changes asked here which is kinda puzzling what are you solo trying to prevent. Banners/scrolls, different instances, it doesn't matter in a grand scheme of things - if it works, it's a chance to solve some of the issues which people are fighting for here. If the game stays the way it is now, it loses in a long term.

SilverBride

colossalvoids wrote: »

Overland is at a level where everyone can succeed at playing through the story, as you've said, but people are surely want to enjoy their experience and not being bored out of their mind with it.

Being bored because some content isn't what a player prefers doesn't mean there is a problem with the content. We had veteran overland and it had to be changed because players just didn't want difficulty in the story.

colossalvoids wrote: »

You're not willing to see any changes, but you're still fine with changes asked here...

I'm not willing to see any changes TO overland. I'm ok with options that only affect the player.

colossalvoids wrote: »

If the game stays the way it is now, it loses in a long term.

The game being the way it is now is what saved it, and it's been very successful this way for 8 years so far.

disky

Muizer wrote: »

disky wrote: »

If that's the philosophy, then it's flawed. Not everyone wants to raid, not everyone wants to run dungeons. It's a fundamentally different kind of experience that I would argue most fans of the Elder Scrolls series aren't looking for.

For what it's worth, as one of those fans, I agree. I'm not sure it's specifically about the difficulty of the fights though. That is part of it, but there's also the element of suspense. My recollection of Oblivion and Skyrim is that there were actually enemies I would rather avoid (and the game could be completed without fighting them). That introduced an element of suspense. A feeling of carefully glancing around every corner before venturing into a new space. I don't think that exists anywhere in ESO (edit:except where there's PvP going on I suppose)

Some have suggested an ambush mechanic as a way of creating that suspense and while I think that sounds like a cool idea, simply providing an optional way to increase the challenge for what we already have feels like the easier thing to do. Which isn't to say it's what ZOS will do, since they seem hell-bent on providing anything else instead. Even so, I would actually just prefer more challenging general overland spawns before anything else happens, ideally with a way to customize difficulty.

disky

SilverBride wrote: »

Being bored because some content isn't what a player prefers doesn't mean there is a problem with the content. We had veteran overland and it had to be changed because players just didn't want difficulty in the story.

We did? Forgive me, I've only been playing for a couple of years. What exactly was this veteran overland you're referring to? Are you referring to Cadwell's? Or just the generally tougher enemies pre-One Tamriel?

SilverBride

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Being bored because some content isn't what a player prefers doesn't mean there is a problem with the content. We had veteran overland and it had to be changed because players just didn't want difficulty in the story.

We did? Forgive me, I've only been playing for a couple of years. What exactly was this veteran overland you're referring to? Are you referring to Cadwell's? Or just the generally tougher enemies pre-One Tamriel?

I'm referring to Caldwell's Silver and Caldwell's Gold, which were veteran levels of the other alliance's zones. The mobs were more difficult as we advanced through the zones and some of the story bosses literally took me days to finally defeat. It also wasn't unusual for me to die to trash overland mobs when out questing.

I did finish Caldwell's Silver and Gold on one character and never did it again. In fact, very few players even bothered to do them because they didn't want difficulty in the story. (This fact was given in an interview about overland difficulty.)

Then there was Craglorn that was so difficult we couldn't even quest without being in a group.

That's when I and most of my friends left. I didn't come back until after One Tamriel was released.

I never want to see anything like that happen to this game again.

CP5

First, for the old silver and gold zones, as long as you stayed 'on curve' with the enemies, as long as you got acclimated to the difficulty of the silver and gold zones, the difficulty remained pretty much the same. As an AD player my first silver zone was stonefalls, and I have good memories of the enemies there giving me trouble, but after that I was fine. Players like me who enjoy working out those difficulty related problems were fine with this kind of difficulty.

I only did silver and gold through once, because I'm not the kind of person who likes to repeat the same story content again and again. This is why I don't enjoy being told 'the gameplay you enjoy already exist, just go repeat the same thing for the millionth time' doesn't help. There are years worth of content I could enjoy, if not for the fact that every 'dramatic encounter' feels like a child's stage play, and I'm being forced to hold back, else end the whole thing early.

Craglorn was intentionally designed around being a 4 player party adventure zone, you weren't supposed to do it solo any more than you were supposed to do a dungeon solo. It didn't fail because it was too difficult, but because it was trying to make players engage in a primarily solo focused activity in a 4 player group.

So, overland is built to be accessible to everyone, so that a new player with their rusty sword and trousers can stop a world ending threat without feeling any hitches or roadblocks, to be as open to them as possible, and that is good. But the players who want to grow, want to try improving skills against improving challenges? Gotta go to group content with no real confidence in your skills first, or simply grind in one of the two solo arenas for that. There's the entire world of Tamriel that I and many others want to explore, but having it be mind-numbingly easy is to us as the higher difficulty of silver and gold zones was to you. The exact same.

But that doesn't really matter, ZOS will do whatever they decide upon. But you mention how your friends left after hitting the barrier of the old silver and gold zones, but don't you think that other people are running into the exact same thing, with friends leaving out of apathy, because for every year the centerpiece of content is mainly designed around a casual audience, so it becomes easier and easier to just leave?

How would an option given to those who aren't engaging with overland now, or those who barely if ever play the game, cause something like that to happen again? It's happening now, just with players you never see.

TaSheen

CP5 wrote: »

First, for the old silver and gold zones, as long as you stayed 'on curve' with the enemies, as long as you got acclimated to the difficulty of the silver and gold zones, the difficulty remained pretty much the same. As an AD player my first silver zone was stonefalls, and I have good memories of the enemies there giving me trouble, but after that I was fine. Players like me who enjoy working out those difficulty related problems were fine with this kind of difficulty.

I only did silver and gold through once, because I'm not the kind of person who likes to repeat the same story content again and again. This is why I don't enjoy being told 'the gameplay you enjoy already exist, just go repeat the same thing for the millionth time' doesn't help. There are years worth of content I could enjoy, if not for the fact that every 'dramatic encounter' feels like a child's stage play, and I'm being forced to hold back, else end the whole thing early.

Craglorn was intentionally designed around being a 4 player party adventure zone, you weren't supposed to do it solo any more than you were supposed to do a dungeon solo. It didn't fail because it was too difficult, but because it was trying to make players engage in a primarily solo focused activity in a 4 player group.

So, overland is built to be accessible to everyone, so that a new player with their rusty sword and trousers can stop a world ending threat without feeling any hitches or roadblocks, to be as open to them as possible, and that is good. But the players who want to grow, want to try improving skills against improving challenges? Gotta go to group content with no real confidence in your skills first, or simply grind in one of the two solo arenas for that. There's the entire world of Tamriel that I and many others want to explore, but having it be mind-numbingly easy is to us as the higher difficulty of silver and gold zones was to you. The exact same.

But that doesn't really matter, ZOS will do whatever they decide upon. But you mention how your friends left after hitting the barrier of the old silver and gold zones, but don't you think that other people are running into the exact same thing, with friends leaving out of apathy, because for every year the centerpiece of content is mainly designed around a casual audience, so it becomes easier and easier to just leave?

How would an option given to those who aren't engaging with overland now, or those who barely if ever play the game, cause something like that to happen again? It's happening now, just with players you never see.

I'm not saying you're wrong, not at all.

What I AM saying is that - those of us who've been here for years (7 for me) have a LOT of experience with ZOS being asked for changes, additions, fixes.... and what we've been given is what ZOS wants to do - which for me has nearly always been not at all what I feel people really wanted. (Mind, I have no expectations at all about that - but, having seen things happen for many years.... I DO think that harder overland will not be optional; it will be game-wide.... and that just won't work for some of us).

And - if that "some of us" is a minority (who knows, only ZOS....) some of us will leave. And perhaps no one but ourselves will be upset.

Truthfully? I'd like to know ASAP if this game I love is going to basically throw me out.

SilverBride

CP5 wrote: »

But you mention how your friends left after hitting the barrier of the old silver and gold zones, but don't you think that other people are running into the exact same thing, with friends leaving out of apathy, because for every year the centerpiece of content is mainly designed around a casual audience, so it becomes easier and easier to just leave?

I see other players everywhere I go, so a lot of players are still actively participating in the story.

If players wish to use challenge banners for story bosses or debuffs to make the overland experience more difficult for them so they can enjoy it more then I think those are very reasonable suggestions that I hope they consider implementing.

I just don't want to see overland become more difficult, or separate versions splitting the playerbase.

disky

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm referring to Caldwell's Silver and Caldwell's Gold

Okay, but that's not something I wanted either. Cadwell's is a very specific mode that forces you to do base-game content that you may not want to do. I highly doubt Cadwell's is anything like what most of the people in this thread are asking for or we'd just say "bring back Cadwell's, please". Any reasonable person in this thread wants a proper increase to overland difficulty, across all zones, not content-gated, and ideally configurable. And optional, of course. People disagree on the specifics but I think that's the general idea.

As TaSheen said, ZOS tends to come up with their own interpretations of what the community wants and Cadwell's is one of many of those ideas. If ZOS listens to what the people in this thread are asking for and implements something even remotely like what we want, I think they'll find there are a lot more people interested in their effort.

SilverBride

I had no problem with the content of Caldwell's Silver and Gold. I love questing and I still do every quest in every zone on all of my characters. It was the difficulty that was the issue for me. Being stuck for days on one story boss wasn't my idea of a good time, or dying to trash mobs.

As has been pointed out also, players tend to do what is easiest. I doubt there would be many players that would choose more difficulty while questing because it would take longer.

disky

SilverBride wrote: »

I had no problem with the content of Caldwell's Silver and Gold. I love questing and I still do every quest in every zone on all of my characters. It was the difficulty that was the issue for me. Being stuck for days on one story boss wasn't my idea of a good time, or dying to trash mobs.

As has been pointed out also, players tend to do what is easiest. I doubt there would be many players that would choose more difficulty while questing because it would take longer.

I understand that you like the game the way it is now or was back then. I understand that your perspective is different from a lot of the people in this thread. Can you accept that the people here fundamentally disagree because we have a different perspective and want something else, and that's not necessarily a bad thing for you?

This doesn't have to have a negative impact on your experience. In fact most people here want to actively avoid that.

SilverBride

disky wrote: »

I understand that your perspective is different from a lot of the people in this thread. Can you accept that the people here fundamentally disagree because we have a different perspective and want something else, and that's not necessarily a bad thing for you?

I accept that others have different preferences and enjoy different things which is why I am all for challenge banners and debuffs and sliders that the player can set to adjust their own experience.

But I think that a separate veteran overland could split the playerbase (if enough even used it) and that would affect everyone, not just those opting in. Plus it would take a lot of resources to implement something that may end up rarely being used. And a mandatory across the board increase in difficulty would definitely be a big negative for a lot of the playerbase.

I don't find my perspective unreasonable at all because I feel that it takes what is best for the playerbase as a whole into account.

terrible1fi

all that has to be done is for a slider to be added. the lord of the rings online has already shown that it works, addressing the very same problem we are discussing here

TaSheen

Well, since I'm strictly a solo player, I don't care one way or the other personally about "splitting the player base". That's of no importance to me at all.

SilverBride

Not splitting the playerbase is important to me. I do a lot of things solo, like questing and housing etc., but I also do content with others, and I enjoy meeting other players when out in the world.

It can be very helpful to have strong players around if someone needs help with a World Boss, for example. And I always try to respond when I see someone asking.

No one has to do these things but it's nice to have others around that are willing to help if we need that. Splitting the players where all the strong players are in a separate zone would have a negative affect for new players.

Also, they have already stated that they do not want to split the playerbase so that makes it unlikely that there will be a separate veteran overland.

Nathitaim

I just joined the forums simply to add yet another voice that it would be great having the flexibility to make standard overland content more challenging - not to gain more XP or loot better items or anything. The only goal would be to make questing more fun.

I enjoy the quests and stories, but I am running around mindlessly to fulfil the objectives, while a little challenge would make this more worthwhile. I am a relatively new player still playing the early quests and I am running around without any equipment except for a white weapon and some white clothes - still I do not need to pay attention when I fight mobs.

It is just such a waste of the good game content - a slider, as previously proposed, that a player can change for himself would do the trick without hindering/affecting/disadvantaging other players at all. When engaging a challenging world boss, you could just turn the slider back down.

I did read that it is very unlikely this is getting adressed, but one more vote for a small change does not hurt either.

Shagreth

If they want ESO to survive and KEEP new players, three things need to happen:

1) More meaningful Overland Content with actual difficulty curve. The combat has devolved into being able to simply spam the same ability, or even the right trigger, over and over again. The content can be completed with absolutely no gear, so gear progression doesn't matter. And this is the content that comprises everything outside of an instance.

2) Update the graphics, at the very least the models.

3) Update animations & certain effects.

Basically I mentioned everything that 5-6 people here insist will quit if it happens to them, but this will greatly benefit the game in the long run.

Honorable mentions: Sets, there's an issue there, the set bloat is real, barely anything is truly viable, save for a select few. Class Change Token would also help a lot. The game has way more problems, but I feel that these are most important ones.

@ZOS_Kevin I hope all the feedback in here doesn't go to waste, we haven't heard anything new regarding overland for quite some time, it's almost sad.

spartaxoxo

ESO has a ton of people who only play the story. They literally leave the game and come back reliably every year. More difficult overland would discourage those players to come back, same with many casual players who skip this game's difficult content.

Forced difficulty cannot work and would kill this game.

Optional ideas like what CredibleJoe suggested or sliders, debuffs, challenge banners, etc is what is needed imo.

disky

Shagreth wrote: »

2) Update the graphics, at the very least the models.

3) Update animations & certain effects.

I think the most reasonable ask would be a texture quality upgrade. A lot of that work can be automated, even if it does require human review. I'd also really love to see the implementation of parallax texture maps but I don't expect it. It would be a huge bump to visual quality though.

By the way, if you're not running Reshade, can't recommend it enough. After tweaking some things it's a night and day quality difference for me.

Shagreth

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ESO has a ton of people who only play the story. They literally leave the game and come back reliably every year. More difficult overland would discourage those players to come back, same with many casual players who skip this game's difficult content.

Forced difficulty cannot work and would kill this game.

Optional ideas like what CredibleJoe suggested or sliders, debuffs, challenge banners, etc is what is needed imo.

I think you have the wrong idea about what hard overland means, I am not (and I think most of us) suggesting that suddenly overland needs to turn into vet dungeon difficulty, but there should be some curve, sense of progression etc. it's tough to balance, that's why they are too afraid to try. We should be offered a small challenge here and there, shouldn't be able to pull 20 mobs without dying, nor should we be able to kill the zone's last boss in 3 abilities. This is an mmorpg, people around will help, people can ask for help etc. At this point the majority of this game feels like Skyrim on easy mode with microtransactions. What's the point? Might as well remove every mob so that we can be spared the inconvenience of dismounting, game feels like a tedious movie running from X to Y. This is bad & lazy design and nothing anyone says can convince me otherwise. WoW had/has the same problem, but ESO is taking the power creep to the extreme level since One Tamriel got introduced, it has gone too far.

Also, I refuse to believe that most players are so incompetent, they will adapt, they will learn, maybe for the first time even try to put together a half-decent build, that will better prepare them for grouped content too. Which reminds me, the game does a super poor job at 'teaching' people how to play.

SilverBride

Shagreth wrote: »

We should be offered a small challenge here and there, shouldn't be able to pull 20 mobs without dying, nor should we be able to kill the zone's last boss in 3 abilities.

There are challenges all over overland. World Bosses, Geysers, Harrowstorms, Vents, Public Dungeons, and Bastion Nymics to name a few. The trash mobs and quests are the ONLY non-challenging content in overland.

Shagreth wrote: »

Also, I refuse to believe that most players are so incompetent, they will adapt, they will learn, maybe for the first time even try to put together a half-decent build, that will better prepare them for grouped content too.

I have good builds and gear on all of my characters and I have done every single type of group content, so far, except Vet Trials... which I plan to tackle in the future, too. And I have had no complaints about my performance because I pull my own weight.

Not wanting a difficult overland has nothing to do with ability, but rather that many of us want to enjoy a relaxing experience while questing through the story. Just like some want more difficulty, many don't and that doesn't mean those players are unable to handle more... we just plain don't want to. Questing overland is my relaxing time and I hope it stays that way.

disky

Shagreth wrote: »

Also, I refuse to believe that most players are so incompetent, they will adapt, they will learn, maybe for the first time even try to put together a half-decent build, that will better prepare them for grouped content too. Which reminds me, the game does a super poor job at 'teaching' people how to play.

The thing is, it's not really even necessarily about skill level. For some it is, but for others it's an ability concern or just the simple fact that they don't want to have to worry about overland enemies in order to get to the story. And I don't have a problem with that if ZOS wants to support it, but they make a big deal out of their Play Your Way tagline, and that should include a way to experience overland that is satisfying for those of us who want a challenge. I think it's possible to satisfy most people by giving us more options, we don't all have to be playing at the same level.

spartaxoxo

Shagreth wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ESO has a ton of people who only play the story. They literally leave the game and come back reliably every year. More difficult overland would discourage those players to come back, same with many casual players who skip this game's difficult content.

Forced difficulty cannot work and would kill this game.

Optional ideas like what CredibleJoe suggested or sliders, debuffs, challenge banners, etc is what is needed imo.

I think you have the wrong idea about what hard overland means, I am not (and I think most of us) suggesting that suddenly overland needs to turn into vet dungeon difficulty, but there should be some curve, sense of progression etc. it's tough to balance, that's why they are too afraid to try. We should be offered a small challenge here and there, shouldn't be able to pull 20 mobs without dying, nor should we be able to kill the zone's last boss in 3 abilities. This is an mmorpg, people around will help, people can ask for help etc. At this point the majority of this game feels like Skyrim on easy mode with microtransactions. What's the point? Might as well remove every mob so that we can be spared the inconvenience of dismounting, game feels like a tedious movie running from X to Y. This is bad & lazy design and nothing anyone says can convince me otherwise. WoW had/has the same problem, but ESO is taking the power creep to the extreme level since One Tamriel got introduced, it has gone too far.

Also, I refuse to believe that most players are so incompetent, they will adapt, they will learn, maybe for the first time even try to put together a half-decent build, that will better prepare them for grouped content too. Which reminds me, the game does a super poor job at 'teaching' people how to play.

Overland is the tutorial content. It's for new players and casual players. It shouldn't require builds and it should cater to power fantasies. Normal mode group content is what is supposed to prepare people for vet group content, not overland. Overland is for preparing people for normal mode and give them a story experience.

Forced difficulty ruins all of those things. Sliders, challenge banners, optional hubs, etc allow players who want more challenge to get it without taking away an enjoyable experience for casuals. I know multiple people who quit if they forced it. And the developers have themselves stated that the vast majority of their playerbase use and enjoy overland exactly as it is

They won't adapt. They'll just go and play a different game on easy. Because that's what they are looking for. It isn't about competency. Your tastes are not everyone's, that is why the game should not remove options, only add them.

disky

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Overland is the tutorial content. It's for new players and casual players. It shouldn't require builds and it should cater to power fantasies. Normal mode group content is what is supposed to prepare people for vet group content, not overland. Overland is for preparing people for normal mode and give them a story experience.

I vehemently disagree with this line of thinking. Overland is the closest thing to the actual TES experience in ESO, and it's what I think most people expect to do when they start playing this game, especially if they've played another TES game. If overland is the tutorial, then ZOS is making a new, full-game-length tutorial every single year, and if that's what they intend to do then it's wrongheaded behavior.

It MAY be a tutorial-level experience right now, but it shouldn't have to be.

spartaxoxo

disky wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Overland is the tutorial content. It's for new players and casual players. It shouldn't require builds and it should cater to power fantasies. Normal mode group content is what is supposed to prepare people for vet group content, not overland. Overland is for preparing people for normal mode and give them a story experience.

I vehemently disagree with this line of thinking. Overland is the closest thing to the actual TES experience in ESO, and it's what I think most people expect to do when they start playing this game, especially if they've played another TES game. If overland is the tutorial, then ZOS is making a new, full-game-length tutorial every single year, and if that's what they intend to do then it's wrongheaded behavior.

It MAY be a tutorial-level experience right now, but it shouldn't have to be.

They have literally stated they want each chapter to be something a brand new player can jump into right away. Story content is designed for a new or casual experience. It's nothing wrong headed about that either. Every expansion needs something to attract new people and the main story is a natural point. Brand new players need something to jump into and it makes zero sense to toss them into group content first. Questing is the natural starting point of a MMO.

The wrong thing is them not giving us things like difficulty sliders so the content can remain engaging for vet players. The overland should have options added to it, not what's already there taken away. The way it is designed is perfectly fine for new and casual players. It's not fine for people who enjoy a challenge.

disky

spartaxoxo wrote: »

disky wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Overland is the tutorial content. It's for new players and casual players. It shouldn't require builds and it should cater to power fantasies. Normal mode group content is what is supposed to prepare people for vet group content, not overland. Overland is for preparing people for normal mode and give them a story experience.

I vehemently disagree with this line of thinking. Overland is the closest thing to the actual TES experience in ESO, and it's what I think most people expect to do when they start playing this game, especially if they've played another TES game. If overland is the tutorial, then ZOS is making a new, full-game-length tutorial every single year, and if that's what they intend to do then it's wrongheaded behavior.

It MAY be a tutorial-level experience right now, but it shouldn't have to be.

They have literally stated they want each chapter to be something a brand new player can jump into right away. Story content is designed for a new or casual experience. It's nothing wrong headed about that either. Every expansion needs something to attract new people and the main story is a natural point. Brand new players need something to jump into and it makes zero sense to toss them into group content first. Questing is the natural starting point of a MMO.

The wrong thing is them not giving us things like difficulty sliders so the content can remain engaging for vet players.

That's fine. Give any new player the ability to play the game at whatever level they choose and don't ruin it for those who want a challenge by never letting them experience anything more challenging than a tutorial-level experience. Leaving the bulk of a new expansion's content at minimum difficulty for all players doesn't make sense. It doesn't cater to those of us who want more from it and have no interest in intensive group content or those of us who do want that group content and also want the rest of the game to be fun too. What's more, there's no reason why it couldn't serve everyone. It's been done.

Group content, by which I expect you mean dungeons and trials, is not the plan for everyone that plays this game, even those who want a challenge. I can say this for certain because I am one of those people. What is the point of spending so much time and effort crafting these unique experiences if they aren't going to feel satisfying for a large portion of your audience? It's just such a wasted opportunity with a solution that is tantalizingly close but just out of reach.

We are speaking in the largest thread on the forum for a reason.