Overland Content Feedback Thread

Dahveed

Nathitaim wrote: »

Also, they seem to wonder why the same people post here over and over and not more different players? I can answer only for myself, that it should be enough asking for a change without any effect on others once. ZOS should then reply at some point in time.

Speaking for myself, I post here "over and over" again if you want to call it that.

Not because I want to kick a dead horse or tire people out, but because it's something I really want for the game, and I come back from time to time (every couple of months maybe?) to reiterate that it isn't just some passing fancy or fad. This is something we REALLY want.

And just to reiterate again, for the people who are obstinately posting AGAINST this idea: We don't want your experience to change AT ALL. It wouldn't affect you in the slightest. (Especially since I play this as a single-player game... I think in 9 years I've been in 9 groups.)



This post does a good job summarizing this point:

Nathitaim wrote: »

Hi again!

I can tell you one reason why the same people post here over and over: it's because they keep pushing their agendas over and over, until anyone else gets sick of getting nowhere in the debate, and quits the discussion. I've seen this, because I've followed this thread since its inception, and also posted in it occasionally.

I think I have posted yesterday and since then 3 pages worth of entries. However, diligently having read (nearly) all of it, I think it can be summarized as:

Group A: Some players are asking for the ability to make overland content more challenging WITHOUT AFFECTING other players. They are fully aware other challenging content exists, but would prefer to enjoy standard zones with a little more challenge. They are not looking to gain any advantages over other players.

Group B: Other players are afraid their game experience is altered in any way. Group A however did say they want a change that doesn't affect others...

Group C: This group ensures everyone is aware that ZOS will not change overland content and have already stated that players looking for more challenging content are funneled into dungeons/trials etc.

Also, they seem to wonder why the same people post here over and over and not more different players? I can answer only for myself, that it should be enough asking for a change without any effect on others once. ZOS should then reply at some point in time.

Ultimately all of the three groups' interests are basically compatible . Everyone can be kept or made happy, if ZOS were to re-evaluate the requests in this thread.

CP5

You know what disky, for your comment about keeping the fires lit, I'll have another post.

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

But you mention how your friends left after hitting the barrier of the old silver and gold zones, but don't you think that other people are running into the exact same thing, with friends leaving out of apathy, because for every year the centerpiece of content is mainly designed around a casual audience, so it becomes easier and easier to just leave?

I see other players everywhere I go, so a lot of players are still actively participating in the story.

If players wish to use challenge banners for story bosses or debuffs to make the overland experience more difficult for them so they can enjoy it more then I think those are very reasonable suggestions that I hope they consider implementing.

I just don't want to see overland become more difficult, or separate versions splitting the playerbase.

So first, I didn't bring up this exchange in my last comment, but I feel it outlines something important when going over this thread. Let me give an idea of what this exchange feels like.

Person A: My dog's missing.
Person B: I see other dogs.

So? Do you see the people who were in my social guild? Any of my trial guildies? Anyone on my friends list? There are thousands of people who play ESO that you will never see, never meet, never know, never notice arrive, and never notice leave. You don't see the players who are leaving because you are in a group of players who ZOS has been treating well, but other groups of players have been taking heavy hits over the years for various reasons, and you likely don't know any of the players who left because of this, because again, they are part of groups you are not in.

Would it be a bad thing for ZOS to do something like, add a 6v6 pvp mode to battlegrounds, to get rid of the omnipresent 3 way system that dominates most of pvp? It would likely bring back plenty of people who aren't playing the game, who aren't in the game to be 'separated' from other players. But, egads, one lone pvp player is in overland, and, with this new-found activity they, leave the overland zone. Oh no, the horror, the player is doing content they enjoy, while everyone else in the zone they were in doesn't notice that they left. That's a comic bit, for the record, this topic is funny to me more than anything, but if you can't name a single person from either any of the social guilds, the trial guilds, or my friends list, who have left the game not by burn-out but by apathy, then why are you worried about players being separated? You didn't notice their departure, and if they returned, how would you notice if they only returned to run dungeons then log out?

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Options allow more players to engage with the content. Dungeons have difficulty options, and maybe even a more solo friendly one coming along. Trials have options, the arenas have options, they let a wider base of players actually engage with the content that ZOS made. Why is that bad to give to overland as well...

Because they have stated that they do not want to split the playerbase.

CP5 wrote: »

...why should ZOS even bother with solo friendly dungeons? Aren't those the 'challenge place' that causal players should just never go to?

A lot of casual players enjoy dungeons, too. Also story mode dungeons would allow players to continue the story as it plays out in the dungeon at their own pace.

So, riddle me this, if ZOS adds story mode dungeons, what do they need to get rid of to add it? Will they get rid of normal dungeons? Dungeons are the 'place to go for challenge,' and if all content has to be one way, that'd make some sense. Or, maybe they'd get rid of the vet versions, make all the hard core players congregate in trials. Or, they'd do neither, and add it as an option alongside the others.

But no! That would split the player base, because, those story mode dungeon players were 'split' away from the normal dungeon queue. What ever shall those other groups do, now that some random player they never knew is enjoying the content without them? Shall I get angry? "Oh, how dare that person be enjoying this dungeon in a way I don't enjoy it." Should I get afraid? "Oh no, with that player missing, there is no way we'll have people for group dungeons anymore."

Neither. Because dungeons act as small scale instances, capped at 4 people which is easy to fill, and unless you can't form 4 man groups regularly to get these runs going, it'll be fine. But overland zones are bigger, so let's math another example.


Imagine small zone sizes to keep the math simple, and a small number of players. Let's say we have 80 players, and our instances can hold 15 players each. Now one thing ZOS does really well is that you can always jump to a friend, unless they're out pvping. Because of this, instances aren't full, normally, so let's say we have 10 instances. Each instance has 8 people, giving plenty of room for friends to join one another should they wish.

But now, we make one instance a veteran instance. Let's say, of the 80 people, only 5% want to engage with it, 4 players total. We would have one instance with 4 people, half regular population, but these kinds of players likely prefer it that way, and we have 4 players who would normally be in that instance being left to log in into one of the other 9 instances. That leaves us with 1 vet instance of 4 players, 4 regular instances of 9 players, and 5 regular instances of 8. Notice how the regular instances went down in size, but the average population in them actually went up?

You said you see plenty of players, would you really notice if 1 in 20 wasn't there anymore? Would you notice their departure if, by design, the game spawned another player into the instance you're in because your instance is designed to have a specific population in it, and works dynamically to keep instances well populated?

So, if story dungeons are good (which I feel they are) because they allow players to engage with content they would otherwise not touch, what 'split' is there? People who are normally not touching a part of the game are given an option to do so, and if they take up the offer, fantastic! The more people enjoying the game, the better. Why isn't that the same for overland? Why does overland have this be a specific way? Why is there a worry about splitting players, when those very players leaving doesn't matter? If you don't notice them leaving, no gap in the sea of players around you, don't you think it would be healthier for the game to enable players to engage with content in the way they enjoy, to help bolster a larger and longer lasting player base, rather than just giving some groups silence to mull over?

Oh, and real quick about dead zones, whatever zones are so low pop that they may not even have one full instance running, so what? If you have the option to have 1 dead instance of a map, or 1 dead and 1 moderately active vet instance, it's more players enjoying that content than there were before, and that is better for the long term health of the game. I've skipped years of story content I may actually double back to if an option was given to make it memorable, and if those zone's happen to normally be dead, it'd still be new content to me.

spartaxoxo

The vast majority of players use Overland. The number of people not engaging in it are in the minority. The developers have been very clear about this. There is no way to have 100% engagement.

Concern about splitting the playerbase is concern about splitting the players actually using it. It's a non-issue is populated areas but some zones or instances already have unhealthy player populations.

disky

CP5 wrote: »

So? Do you see the people who were in my social guild? Any of my trial guildies? Anyone on my friends list? There are thousands of people who play ESO that you will never see, never meet, never know, never notice arrive, and never notice leave. You don't see the players who are leaving because you are in a group of players who ZOS has been treating well, but other groups of players have been taking heavy hits over the years for various reasons, and you likely don't know any of the players who left because of this, because again, they are part of groups you are not in.

CP5 wrote: »

I've skipped years of story content I may actually double back to if an option was given to make it memorable, and if those zone's happen to normally be dead, it'd still be new content to me.

Well said. It's easy to perceive the game as healthy if the people who think like you stick around.

I've done a lot of older content but there have been numerous times when I've thought about going back and doing it again if I had the option to make it more challenging and interesting. It would feel like a whole new game. To say nothing of the content I haven't even touched because I'm waiting for it to be fun.

spartaxoxo

disky wrote: »

I've done a lot of older content but there have been numerous times when I've thought about going back and doing it again if I had the option to make it more challenging and interesting. It would feel like a whole new game. To say nothing of the content I haven't even touched because I'm waiting for it to be fun.

I basically have to be in the mood for a walking sim to play overland. It's a shame because the stories are pretty interesting. I really liked Necrom's story.

Uvi_AUT

Before I buy this Addon. Did they do anything for Overland-Difficulty yet? I cant find anything in the Patch Notes.

disky

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Before I buy this Addon. Did they do anything for Overland-Difficulty yet? I cant find anything in the Patch Notes.

Sadly no. I haven't purchased Gold Road but I read the full patch notes and I've been playing the game outside of GR. No apparent difference. I imagine that if it happens, it will be a big deal in the community.

colossalvoids

disky wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Before I buy this Addon. Did they do anything for Overland-Difficulty yet? I cant find anything in the Patch Notes.

Sadly no. I haven't purchased Gold Road but I read the full patch notes and I've been playing the game outside of GR. No apparent difference. I imagine that if it happens, it will be a big deal in the community.

Meanwhile taking Elden Ring dlc instead of GR, can't always be unhappy and fight for bits of possible future enjoyment when can just enjoy things. It feels like a lost battle anyway.

disky

colossalvoids wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Before I buy this Addon. Did they do anything for Overland-Difficulty yet? I cant find anything in the Patch Notes.

Sadly no. I haven't purchased Gold Road but I read the full patch notes and I've been playing the game outside of GR. No apparent difference. I imagine that if it happens, it will be a big deal in the community.

Meanwhile taking Elden Ring dlc instead of GR, can't always be unhappy and fight for bits of possible future enjoyment when can just enjoy things. It feels like a lost battle anyway.

It's not that I hate the game or that I'm always unhappy. I like the game a lot. I play the game a lot. It's just that the thing I want most out of it is the thing I can't enjoy, and so I'm here. For what it's worth I stopped playing Elden Ring because the story is incomprehensible and there was no realistic motivation for the main character beyond "I wanna be the guy". Which is fine if you don't mind the story being relatively shallow and I'm not trying to criticize anyone's interest in it. Just couldn't find a reason to keep going myself.

colossalvoids

disky wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Before I buy this Addon. Did they do anything for Overland-Difficulty yet? I cant find anything in the Patch Notes.

Sadly no. I haven't purchased Gold Road but I read the full patch notes and I've been playing the game outside of GR. No apparent difference. I imagine that if it happens, it will be a big deal in the community.

Meanwhile taking Elden Ring dlc instead of GR, can't always be unhappy and fight for bits of possible future enjoyment when can just enjoy things. It feels like a lost battle anyway.

It's not that I hate the game or that I'm always unhappy. I like the game a lot. I play the game a lot. It's just that the thing I want most out of it is the thing I can't enjoy, and so I'm here. For what it's worth I stopped playing Elden Ring because the story is incomprehensible and there was no realistic motivation for the main character beyond "I wanna be the guy". Which is fine if you don't mind the story being relatively shallow and I'm not trying to criticize anyone's interest in it. Just couldn't find a reason to keep going myself.

Tes for me always were quest games, but this particular one I'm enjoying currently only as an mmo, dungeons to be exact. Even when writing is good it bumps into "gameplay not following the narrative" issue, like daedra being a push over, zones roll over etc. Not even talking the Princes, obviously.

ER is entirely different way of story telling and if you can decipher it, it's insanely rewarding. It's a puzzle game lore wise. Was able to relive Morrowind/Oblivion with it and not how they were actually depth wise (not too deep), but how they felt years when they've came out, mystic and alien.

disky

colossalvoids wrote: »

disky wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Before I buy this Addon. Did they do anything for Overland-Difficulty yet? I cant find anything in the Patch Notes.

Sadly no. I haven't purchased Gold Road but I read the full patch notes and I've been playing the game outside of GR. No apparent difference. I imagine that if it happens, it will be a big deal in the community.

Meanwhile taking Elden Ring dlc instead of GR, can't always be unhappy and fight for bits of possible future enjoyment when can just enjoy things. It feels like a lost battle anyway.

It's not that I hate the game or that I'm always unhappy. I like the game a lot. I play the game a lot. It's just that the thing I want most out of it is the thing I can't enjoy, and so I'm here. For what it's worth I stopped playing Elden Ring because the story is incomprehensible and there was no realistic motivation for the main character beyond "I wanna be the guy". Which is fine if you don't mind the story being relatively shallow and I'm not trying to criticize anyone's interest in it. Just couldn't find a reason to keep going myself.

Tes for me always were quest games, but this particular one I'm enjoying currently only as an mmo, dungeons to be exact. Even when writing is good it bumps into "gameplay not following the narrative" issue, like daedra being a push over, zones roll over etc. Not even talking the Princes, obviously.

ER is entirely different way of story telling and if you can decipher it, it's insanely rewarding. It's a puzzle game lore wise. Was able to relive Morrowind/Oblivion with it and not how they were actually depth wise (not too deep), but how they felt years when they've came out, mystic and alien.

I don't want to get too off-topic, but story and lore are different things. Sure you can glean whispers of what happened in the past and you can feel a certain way about them, which may give you a reason to keep going, but I've never felt anything pushing me toward the end of the game in ER aside from "you must become the Elden Lord". Why? If there's something in an item description I missed, or you finally figure it out 20 hours into the game, then that's bad storytelling. Compound this with the fact that there's no quest journal and you have no idea where your NPCs ran off to half the time, leading you to rely on a wiki, and you've got a mess of a story. I should note that I actually played the game for over 200 hours, mostly screwing around, and I still never found a reason to be wherever I was at any point. I tried to tell myself "this isn't TES, it's Castlevania" but eventually I just gave up because in my head I couldn't find a justification for my character to care about what they were doing.

TES (including ESO) tends to give you a clear reason for doing what you're doing, in the initial minutes of playing. If it doesn't, you're welcome to go out and explore, but you will find your motivation pretty quickly. In all my time with ER I never found it. ESO doesn't always have the best stories (looking at you, Alik'r) but at least it has something to grasp onto that keeps you going. And it has a quest journal.

100% agree that if I'm going to fight Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon, they should be tougher than some dude in a vet dungeon.

SilverBride

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Before I buy this Addon. Did they do anything for Overland-Difficulty yet? I cant find anything in the Patch Notes.

They have never said that they plan to increase overland difficulty. This is the most recent statement regarding overland difficulty.

"Similarly, open-world content is balanced for casual play; ZOS is not going to make the open-world game or story content too hard because they don’t want people to quit. People who want challenge are funneled into dungeons."

https://massivelyop.com/2024/01/18/elder-scrolls-onlines-gold-road-chapter-takes-players-back-to-oblivions-best-city-on-june-3/

colossalvoids

disky wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

disky wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Before I buy this Addon. Did they do anything for Overland-Difficulty yet? I cant find anything in the Patch Notes.

Sadly no. I haven't purchased Gold Road but I read the full patch notes and I've been playing the game outside of GR. No apparent difference. I imagine that if it happens, it will be a big deal in the community.

Meanwhile taking Elden Ring dlc instead of GR, can't always be unhappy and fight for bits of possible future enjoyment when can just enjoy things. It feels like a lost battle anyway.

It's not that I hate the game or that I'm always unhappy. I like the game a lot. I play the game a lot. It's just that the thing I want most out of it is the thing I can't enjoy, and so I'm here. For what it's worth I stopped playing Elden Ring because the story is incomprehensible and there was no realistic motivation for the main character beyond "I wanna be the guy". Which is fine if you don't mind the story being relatively shallow and I'm not trying to criticize anyone's interest in it. Just couldn't find a reason to keep going myself.

Tes for me always were quest games, but this particular one I'm enjoying currently only as an mmo, dungeons to be exact. Even when writing is good it bumps into "gameplay not following the narrative" issue, like daedra being a push over, zones roll over etc. Not even talking the Princes, obviously.

ER is entirely different way of story telling and if you can decipher it, it's insanely rewarding. It's a puzzle game lore wise. Was able to relive Morrowind/Oblivion with it and not how they were actually depth wise (not too deep), but how they felt years when they've came out, mystic and alien.

I don't want to get too off-topic, but story and lore are different things. Sure you can glean whispers of what happened in the past and you can feel a certain way about them, which may give you a reason to keep going, but I've never felt anything pushing me toward the end of the game in ER aside from "you must become the Elden Lord". Why? If there's something in an item description I missed, or you finally figure it out 20 hours into the game, then that's bad storytelling. Compound this with the fact that there's no quest journal and you have no idea where your NPCs ran off to half the time, leading you to rely on a wiki, and you've got a mess of a story. I should note that I actually played the game for over 200 hours, mostly screwing around, and I still never found a reason to be wherever I was at any point. I tried to tell myself "this isn't TES, it's Castlevania" but eventually I just gave up because in my head I couldn't find a justification for my character to care about what they were doing.

TES (including ESO) tends to give you a clear reason for doing what you're doing, in the initial minutes of playing. If it doesn't, you're welcome to go out and explore, but you will find your motivation pretty quickly. In all my time with ER I never found it. ESO doesn't always have the best stories (looking at you, Alik'r) but at least it has something to grasp onto that keeps you going. And it has a quest journal.

100% agree that if I'm going to fight Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon, they should be tougher than some dude in a vet dungeon.

Totally get why a lot of folks don't find that way of storytelling compelling, was quite of the same mind at one point in time, years and years ago. But appreciative of games that don't do it safe or like any other title would, like in that case which was something I became a fan of eventually.

ESO wise and going back to difficulty for me it's about matching the narrative, random challenge for the sake of challenge isn't compelling really. But if something called sacred, world threatening etc. it better be somewhat close to some basic challenges that are already in game lol.

Yuji34

Hello everyone, I'm back on the forum once again, and I see you're still debating the same thing about increasing the difficulty of the overland. After a while, it's pointless. There's a temporary, simple, and quick solution that could please everyone. If "buffing" the overland could cause issues, then why not allow players who wish to do so to "debuff" themselves? Will this pose a problem for anti-difficulty players, yes or no? Please respond with your arguments.

With the "Gold Road" update, is it possible to create spells? Great, then let us have the option to create a "debuff" spell that can be activated and deactivated at will, as I explained previously. For example: Major Debuff: Increases the damage received by the player by 200% and decreases the damage the player inflicts by 50%.


Here's a temporary, simple solution that will calm the thread that has been going on for 2 years. I understand that some players want more and find it completely unacceptable, but this is the best solution that will satisfy everyone. It's also financially beneficial for Zenimax because players like me who have quit the game due to lack of difficulty might just buy the expansion for this feature.

SilverBride

Yuji34 wrote: »

With the "Gold Road" update, is it possible to create spells? Great, then let us have the option to create a "debuff" spell that can be activated and deactivated at will, as I explained previously. For example: Major Debuff: Increases the damage received by the player by 200% and decreases the damage the player inflicts by 50%.

This is a good idea. Scribing creates skills that can be placed on the skill bar, so it would be as easy as placing the skill on the bar when wanting to use it and removing it when not. They just need to make this skill possible.

spartaxoxo

Yuji34 wrote: »

With the "Gold Road" update, is it possible to create spells? Great, then let us have the option to create a "debuff" spell that can be activated and deactivated at will, as I explained previously. For example: Major Debuff: Increases the damage received by the player by 200% and decreases the damage the player inflicts by 50%.

A scribing solution would work fine for me. I don't much like the idea of gear. But one skill doing the job would be okay since I have flex spots anyway.

Dahveed

Yuji34 wrote: »

Hello everyone, I'm back on the forum once again, and I see you're still debating the same thing about increasing the difficulty of the overland. After a while, it's pointless. There's a temporary, simple, and quick solution that could please everyone. If "buffing" the overland could cause issues, then why not allow players who wish to do so to "debuff" themselves? Will this pose a problem for anti-difficulty players, yes or no? Please respond with your arguments.

With the "Gold Road" update, is it possible to create spells? Great, then let us have the option to create a "debuff" spell that can be activated and deactivated at will, as I explained previously. For example: Major Debuff: Increases the damage received by the player by 200% and decreases the damage the player inflicts by 50%.


Here's a temporary, simple solution that will calm the thread that has been going on for 2 years. I understand that some players want more and find it completely unacceptable, but this is the best solution that will satisfy everyone. It's also financially beneficial for Zenimax because players like me who have quit the game due to lack of difficulty might just buy the expansion for this feature.

This.

It's crazy to me how some people have even come up with the counter-argument that stuff like this is "difficult to code" and would sap dev resources. Like... really? Coding a potion or a poison is apparently difficult and resource-heavy, apparently.

Buffs and debuffs are the bread and butter of all MMOs and action RPGs, I don't understand why it would be so incredibly difficult to imagine they could just take an afternoon and code another one for individual player difficulty.

To me the solution is very easy. It's just finding a creative "lore" way to implement it which would be challenging (I would rather say interesting!).

My idea is a Daedric curse (see my previous post about Peryite), but it could also be done using Scribing I guess.

colossalvoids

Dahveed wrote: »

Yuji34 wrote: »

Hello everyone, I'm back on the forum once again, and I see you're still debating the same thing about increasing the difficulty of the overland. After a while, it's pointless. There's a temporary, simple, and quick solution that could please everyone. If "buffing" the overland could cause issues, then why not allow players who wish to do so to "debuff" themselves? Will this pose a problem for anti-difficulty players, yes or no? Please respond with your arguments.

With the "Gold Road" update, is it possible to create spells? Great, then let us have the option to create a "debuff" spell that can be activated and deactivated at will, as I explained previously. For example: Major Debuff: Increases the damage received by the player by 200% and decreases the damage the player inflicts by 50%.


Here's a temporary, simple solution that will calm the thread that has been going on for 2 years. I understand that some players want more and find it completely unacceptable, but this is the best solution that will satisfy everyone. It's also financially beneficial for Zenimax because players like me who have quit the game due to lack of difficulty might just buy the expansion for this feature.

This.

It's crazy to me how some people have even come up with the counter-argument that stuff like this is "difficult to code" and would sap dev resources. Like... really? Coding a potion or a poison is apparently difficult and resource-heavy, apparently.

Buffs and debuffs are the bread and butter of all MMOs and action RPGs, I don't understand why it would be so incredibly difficult to imagine they could just take an afternoon and code another one for individual player difficulty.

To me the solution is very easy. It's just finding a creative "lore" way to implement it which would be challenging (I would rather say interesting!).

My idea is a Daedric curse (see my previous post about Peryite), but it could also be done using Scribing I guess.

The only difficulty I can imagine is that it would be "unique" spell having more modifiers, potentially in form of different affixes that needs to be created from scratch. Because a super simple solution would probably not fly for a lot of folks, especially if it would be gated behind the expansion so base game new player would not be able to even utilise it.

disky

Yuji34 wrote: »

Hello everyone, I'm back on the forum once again, and I see you're still debating the same thing about increasing the difficulty of the overland. After a while, it's pointless. There's a temporary, simple, and quick solution that could please everyone. If "buffing" the overland could cause issues, then why not allow players who wish to do so to "debuff" themselves? Will this pose a problem for anti-difficulty players, yes or no? Please respond with your arguments.

With the "Gold Road" update, is it possible to create spells? Great, then let us have the option to create a "debuff" spell that can be activated and deactivated at will, as I explained previously. For example: Major Debuff: Increases the damage received by the player by 200% and decreases the damage the player inflicts by 50%.


Here's a temporary, simple solution that will calm the thread that has been going on for 2 years. I understand that some players want more and find it completely unacceptable, but this is the best solution that will satisfy everyone. It's also financially beneficial for Zenimax because players like me who have quit the game due to lack of difficulty might just buy the expansion for this feature.

I appreciate the enthusiasm but disagree with the idea, because anything that handicaps the ability of a player to interact with the game as anyone else would is simply unnecessary. ZOS just doesn't have to do it that way. You can code the feature without forcing the player to remove an ability from their build, or to intentionally hobble themself with debuff gear, or take a potion, or anything else. We have global debuffs in other sections of the game which don't do this, so why can't we have that for overland?

The problem with "temporary" solutions is that they have a habit of becoming permanent solutions. It needs to be done right the first time, or at least with a good plan and implementation.

Yuji34

disky wrote: »

Yuji34 wrote: »

Hello everyone, I'm back on the forum once again, and I see you're still debating the same thing about increasing the difficulty of the overland. After a while, it's pointless. There's a temporary, simple, and quick solution that could please everyone. If "buffing" the overland could cause issues, then why not allow players who wish to do so to "debuff" themselves? Will this pose a problem for anti-difficulty players, yes or no? Please respond with your arguments.

With the "Gold Road" update, is it possible to create spells? Great, then let us have the option to create a "debuff" spell that can be activated and deactivated at will, as I explained previously. For example: Major Debuff: Increases the damage received by the player by 200% and decreases the damage the player inflicts by 50%.


Here's a temporary, simple solution that will calm the thread that has been going on for 2 years. I understand that some players want more and find it completely unacceptable, but this is the best solution that will satisfy everyone. It's also financially beneficial for Zenimax because players like me who have quit the game due to lack of difficulty might just buy the expansion for this feature.

I appreciate the enthusiasm but disagree with the idea, because anything that handicaps the ability of a player to interact with the game as anyone else would is simply unnecessary. ZOS just doesn't have to do it that way. You can code the feature without forcing the player to remove an ability from their build, or to intentionally hobble themself with debuff gear, or take a potion, or anything else. We have global debuffs in other sections of the game which don't do this, so why can't we have that for overland?

The problem with "temporary" solutions is that they have a habit of becoming permanent solutions. It needs to be done right the first time, or at least with a good plan and implementation.

Yes, but players who want more difficulty are already doing it on their own. We need to stop deciding for others how they should play. If I want to add more difficulty for myself and not for others, I should have the right to do so. For example, I used to remove my equipment when playing to make it a bit harder. Now we have an alternative, immersive solution that gives a whole new flavor to the overland.

With this buff, I'll need to find the best equipment to complete overland quests, team up with players who have the buff, do quests in groups, and take down Angoff the Necromancer with my friends. That's what I want to do. I want to play an ELDER SCROLLS game with my friends. Elder Scrolls is about quests, story, and adventure.

Zenirith

"Vet" overland = more interactions between players. Both my friends and I would love it. Unfortunately, I see that many people are happy to play alone. Me? I like both things, but I would like to be able to choose based on my daily mood.

disky

Yuji34 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Yuji34 wrote: »

Hello everyone, I'm back on the forum once again, and I see you're still debating the same thing about increasing the difficulty of the overland. After a while, it's pointless. There's a temporary, simple, and quick solution that could please everyone. If "buffing" the overland could cause issues, then why not allow players who wish to do so to "debuff" themselves? Will this pose a problem for anti-difficulty players, yes or no? Please respond with your arguments.

With the "Gold Road" update, is it possible to create spells? Great, then let us have the option to create a "debuff" spell that can be activated and deactivated at will, as I explained previously. For example: Major Debuff: Increases the damage received by the player by 200% and decreases the damage the player inflicts by 50%.


Here's a temporary, simple solution that will calm the thread that has been going on for 2 years. I understand that some players want more and find it completely unacceptable, but this is the best solution that will satisfy everyone. It's also financially beneficial for Zenimax because players like me who have quit the game due to lack of difficulty might just buy the expansion for this feature.

I appreciate the enthusiasm but disagree with the idea, because anything that handicaps the ability of a player to interact with the game as anyone else would is simply unnecessary. ZOS just doesn't have to do it that way. You can code the feature without forcing the player to remove an ability from their build, or to intentionally hobble themself with debuff gear, or take a potion, or anything else. We have global debuffs in other sections of the game which don't do this, so why can't we have that for overland?

The problem with "temporary" solutions is that they have a habit of becoming permanent solutions. It needs to be done right the first time, or at least with a good plan and implementation.

Yes, but players who want more difficulty are already doing it on their own. We need to stop deciding for others how they should play. If I want to add more difficulty for myself and not for others, I should have the right to do so. For example, I used to remove my equipment when playing to make it a bit harder. Now we have an alternative, immersive solution that gives a whole new flavor to the overland.

With this buff, I'll need to find the best equipment to complete overland quests, team up with players who have the buff, do quests in groups, and take down Angoff the Necromancer with my friends. That's what I want to do. I want to play an ELDER SCROLLS game with my friends. Elder Scrolls is about quests, story, and adventure.

To me this just sounds like you're used to hobbling yourself and you're expecting to have to do it in the future. What if you could use an optimized build but the game was still as much or more of a challenge than it is when you deliberately limit yourself today?

I don't understand why someone would choose to create a bad build unless there was a reason to do it. Implementing an external method of increasing overland challenge would in theory remove the need for it because you'll already have the challenge you want. That being said, it would still allow you to do so for an even greater challenge.

Circuitous

Just throwing my hat in the ring to say I'd like to see a Veteran Instance option for overland zones. Use the Infinite Archive's leveling math to make it, so you don't have to change every enemy's stats by hand. No need for more/better rewards imo.

Yuji34

disky wrote: »

Yuji34 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Yuji34 wrote: »

Hello everyone, I'm back on the forum once again, and I see you're still debating the same thing about increasing the difficulty of the overland. After a while, it's pointless. There's a temporary, simple, and quick solution that could please everyone. If "buffing" the overland could cause issues, then why not allow players who wish to do so to "debuff" themselves? Will this pose a problem for anti-difficulty players, yes or no? Please respond with your arguments.

With the "Gold Road" update, is it possible to create spells? Great, then let us have the option to create a "debuff" spell that can be activated and deactivated at will, as I explained previously. For example: Major Debuff: Increases the damage received by the player by 200% and decreases the damage the player inflicts by 50%.


Here's a temporary, simple solution that will calm the thread that has been going on for 2 years. I understand that some players want more and find it completely unacceptable, but this is the best solution that will satisfy everyone. It's also financially beneficial for Zenimax because players like me who have quit the game due to lack of difficulty might just buy the expansion for this feature.

I appreciate the enthusiasm but disagree with the idea, because anything that handicaps the ability of a player to interact with the game as anyone else would is simply unnecessary. ZOS just doesn't have to do it that way. You can code the feature without forcing the player to remove an ability from their build, or to intentionally hobble themself with debuff gear, or take a potion, or anything else. We have global debuffs in other sections of the game which don't do this, so why can't we have that for overland?

The problem with "temporary" solutions is that they have a habit of becoming permanent solutions. It needs to be done right the first time, or at least with a good plan and implementation.

Yes, but players who want more difficulty are already doing it on their own. We need to stop deciding for others how they should play. If I want to add more difficulty for myself and not for others, I should have the right to do so. For example, I used to remove my equipment when playing to make it a bit harder. Now we have an alternative, immersive solution that gives a whole new flavor to the overland.

With this buff, I'll need to find the best equipment to complete overland quests, team up with players who have the buff, do quests in groups, and take down Angoff the Necromancer with my friends. That's what I want to do. I want to play an ELDER SCROLLS game with my friends. Elder Scrolls is about quests, story, and adventure.

To me this just sounds like you're used to hobbling yourself and you're expecting to have to do it in the future. What if you could use an optimized build but the game was still as much or more of a challenge than it is when you deliberately limit yourself today?

I don't understand why someone would choose to create a bad build unless there was a reason to do it. Implementing an external method of increasing overland challenge would in theory remove the need for it because you'll already have the challenge you want. That being said, it would still allow you to do so for an even greater challenge.

I give up, I don't know how you manage to not understand. Honestly, I don't know if you're doing it on purpose.

I'll try to explain one last time.

_Coding the entire overland from scratch to adjust the difficulty seems like a complicated task.
_In most Bethesda games (Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout), the difficulty sliders are just modifiers for received damage and inflicted damage.
_Therefore, it is simpler here to create a debuff that applies these modifiers, which seems to be an easier solution for Zenimax and easy to implement, especially with the Gold Road Update.
_TESO, for me, is the MMORPG with the best overland content. I have never seen an MMORPG with such well-written quests, a well-crafted universe, and captivating zones that tell a story.
_Adding a "debuff" that serves the role of a "difficulty slider" will give these zones a different flavor and enhance immersion. Yes, I have an optimized build; when I play an RPG, I like to be as optimized as possible, so I manage to eliminate the bad guys in each zone before they even finish their villain speech in the final quest.
_The zone mobs cannot kill us; our base regen will always be higher than their damage whether we have an optimized build or not. There are videos proving this.

_Adding this "debuff" option that replaces the role of a "difficulty slider" will give an additional interest in having an optimized build for players wanting to explore the zones and story. It also gives value to all the other activities on the side, like Alchemy, Blacksmithing (I'm speaking for new players leveling these professions). I take pleasure in creating a new character each time and doing the quests entirely naked.

BasP

Yuji34 wrote: »

Hello everyone, I'm back on the forum once again, and I see you're still debating the same thing about increasing the difficulty of the overland. After a while, it's pointless. There's a temporary, simple, and quick solution that could please everyone. If "buffing" the overland could cause issues, then why not allow players who wish to do so to "debuff" themselves? Will this pose a problem for anti-difficulty players, yes or no? Please respond with your arguments.

With the "Gold Road" update, is it possible to create spells? Great, then let us have the option to create a "debuff" spell that can be activated and deactivated at will, as I explained previously. For example: Major Debuff: Increases the damage received by the player by 200% and decreases the damage the player inflicts by 50%.

While anything to increase the difficulty would be welcome, and I do like your idea, I'd prefer it if something more simple like a difficulty slider would be implemented into the base game. I'd already be happy if such a slider would only apply increasingly stronger versions of Minor Vulnerability and Minor Maim to my character, which doesn't seem that hard to implement (though I could be wrong of course).

In that case, everyone could make use of the increased difficulty, instead of only those that have access to a Chapter's feature like Scribing. Besides, depending on the difficulty, every skill slot might matter so I'd rather not have to waste one on a skill just for a debuff.

Lastly, I also think that having to craft a skill, food or potion just to increase the difficulty is pretty unintuitive. It's probably not something players new to ESO would think of doing, for example (and those also complain about the lack of difficulty sometimes). Everyone is familiar with difficulty sliders or a couple of predetermined difficulty levels from other games though.

disky

Yuji34 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Yuji34 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Yuji34 wrote: »

Hello everyone, I'm back on the forum once again, and I see you're still debating the same thing about increasing the difficulty of the overland. After a while, it's pointless. There's a temporary, simple, and quick solution that could please everyone. If "buffing" the overland could cause issues, then why not allow players who wish to do so to "debuff" themselves? Will this pose a problem for anti-difficulty players, yes or no? Please respond with your arguments.

With the "Gold Road" update, is it possible to create spells? Great, then let us have the option to create a "debuff" spell that can be activated and deactivated at will, as I explained previously. For example: Major Debuff: Increases the damage received by the player by 200% and decreases the damage the player inflicts by 50%.


Here's a temporary, simple solution that will calm the thread that has been going on for 2 years. I understand that some players want more and find it completely unacceptable, but this is the best solution that will satisfy everyone. It's also financially beneficial for Zenimax because players like me who have quit the game due to lack of difficulty might just buy the expansion for this feature.

I appreciate the enthusiasm but disagree with the idea, because anything that handicaps the ability of a player to interact with the game as anyone else would is simply unnecessary. ZOS just doesn't have to do it that way. You can code the feature without forcing the player to remove an ability from their build, or to intentionally hobble themself with debuff gear, or take a potion, or anything else. We have global debuffs in other sections of the game which don't do this, so why can't we have that for overland?

The problem with "temporary" solutions is that they have a habit of becoming permanent solutions. It needs to be done right the first time, or at least with a good plan and implementation.

Yes, but players who want more difficulty are already doing it on their own. We need to stop deciding for others how they should play. If I want to add more difficulty for myself and not for others, I should have the right to do so. For example, I used to remove my equipment when playing to make it a bit harder. Now we have an alternative, immersive solution that gives a whole new flavor to the overland.

With this buff, I'll need to find the best equipment to complete overland quests, team up with players who have the buff, do quests in groups, and take down Angoff the Necromancer with my friends. That's what I want to do. I want to play an ELDER SCROLLS game with my friends. Elder Scrolls is about quests, story, and adventure.

To me this just sounds like you're used to hobbling yourself and you're expecting to have to do it in the future. What if you could use an optimized build but the game was still as much or more of a challenge than it is when you deliberately limit yourself today?

I don't understand why someone would choose to create a bad build unless there was a reason to do it. Implementing an external method of increasing overland challenge would in theory remove the need for it because you'll already have the challenge you want. That being said, it would still allow you to do so for an even greater challenge.

I give up, I don't know how you manage to not understand. Honestly, I don't know if you're doing it on purpose.

I'll try to explain one last time.

_Coding the entire overland from scratch to adjust the difficulty seems like a complicated task.
_In most Bethesda games (Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout), the difficulty sliders are just modifiers for received damage and inflicted damage.
_Therefore, it is simpler here to create a debuff that applies these modifiers, which seems to be an easier solution for Zenimax and easy to implement, especially with the Gold Road Update.
_TESO, for me, is the MMORPG with the best overland content. I have never seen an MMORPG with such well-written quests, a well-crafted universe, and captivating zones that tell a story.
_Adding a "debuff" that serves the role of a "difficulty slider" will give these zones a different flavor and enhance immersion. Yes, I have an optimized build; when I play an RPG, I like to be as optimized as possible, so I manage to eliminate the bad guys in each zone before they even finish their villain speech in the final quest.
_The zone mobs cannot kill us; our base regen will always be higher than their damage whether we have an optimized build or not. There are videos proving this.

_Adding this "debuff" option that replaces the role of a "difficulty slider" will give an additional interest in having an optimized build for players wanting to explore the zones and story. It also gives value to all the other activities on the side, like Alchemy, Blacksmithing (I'm speaking for new players leveling these professions). I take pleasure in creating a new character each time and doing the quests entirely naked.

I'm not sure why you think I disagree with you in so many aspects. You're right, debuffs are good. I just think it should be handled outside of the character itself, through a menu or some diegetic switch. All I said was that it's unnecessary to code the debuff switch in the form of an ability or gear, and detrimental to the player because it limits their ability to engage with builds.

soldierofzion82

Here's my take... the option to play overland on hardmode would not be to give greater rewards. It would make killing bosses in stories more immersive instead of a meme. Also, you attract more people invested in a sense of accomplishment for winning at quests. This would infuse new life in the vet dungeon/trial community. People that like the challenge in overland will eventually gravitate to END GAME HM stuff. There. Folks that want to meander and chill could still do that on normal mode. EVERYONE is happy and you breath new life into old content and create a pool of players being developed to accomplish things in trials.

Mrtoobyy

For the people who is against a player debuff idea, why would you even be against it if you'd never use it?

The reason WHY we should get harder overland is because WE veteran players played the game when it came out and would like that experience again.

The experience = Bosses will actually feel like a boss when you fight them, the fight becomes longer thus their mechanics will be viable. Story content will get more immersive since a big villain will actually be fearsome, not easier to kill than a normal mob in a Vet dungeon.
That alone is so wrong in so many ways. How can Molag bal be weaker than a random mob in a dungeon!? He's a f*cking Daedric prince.

And please don't tell me to fight naked and without gear bla bla bla. I've done it and it's still to easy since I've been playing since launch and I know the game all too well...

The easy way to do it?
- A new mundus stone? Wich grants the debuff?
- A food/drink of some sort?
- A world skill/curse that works that adds similiar things like being a vampire or werewolf
- An item to equip in the appearance/gallow slot in the inventory since that is basically never used unless you have a costume etc.
So would there be an upside to having this debuff? I mean to make it even worth trying in the future for people who are against could include a BUFF.

-Maybe increased EXP?
-Maybe increased gold?
-Maybe a cool outfit/style motif in the end similiar to Cadwells gold

NO shortcuts or direct effect to get gear faster or make your character stronger.Just a simple "carrot" to make it even more interesting using this debuff. WIN-WIN


THIS IS what this game desperatly needs. I usually mention new animations but this is an Elder scrolls game, in an Elder scrolls game you explore and quest and level your character.
There is no need for more or new content atm if you ask me BECAUSE there is soooo much good content already in the game.
Making overland actually unique WILL be like adding tons of "new" content to the game!

Period!

Muizer

Mrtoobyy wrote: »

For the people who is against a player debuff idea, why would you even be against it if you'd never use it?

Because I do want harder overland and because of that I want the Devs to work on a solution that actually works. Not something like a fixed debuff, for which we can reliably predict that it is going to be a huge disappointment.

Yuji34

Muizer wrote: »

Mrtoobyy wrote: »

For the people who is against a player debuff idea, why would you even be against it if you'd never use it?

Because I do want harder overland and because of that I want the Devs to work on a solution that actually works. Not something like a fixed debuff, for which we can reliably predict that it is going to be a huge disappointment.

So you prefer nothing, you're not happy so you want to punish everyone