Overland Content Feedback Thread

disky

TaSheen wrote: »

It's not because "enough demand". It's because there were so many threads repeating the same stuff week in and week out that Kevin decided to sticky it here.

Multiple threads consistently asking for the same feature to be added week in and week out sounds like demand to me.

disky

GatheredMyst wrote: »

The only place i'm going to find not even a challenge, but something that closely resembles a balanced game-play experience, is a dungeon or raid?

Exactly. I want to experience the grand story that ZOS has spent so much time working for their zones. I want to explore and discover and roam, like I have in every other Elder Scrolls game, because that's what Elder Scrolls games have always been about. I am not here for bottle content. Rat maze dungeons are fun as a supplement to the main experience but they are not what draw me here.

I have pre-ordered High Isle and Necrom, I've maintained my ESO Plus sub, and I have only played a minimum of the available story content in both because I can't bring myself to enjoy it. And it's what I want to do most in this game. For the first time, I'm considering stepping away from the game because I'm losing hope that I'll ever get to experience the overland content in a way that feels satisfying.

I love this game and I'd assume that most of us do or we wouldn't be here, begging in the forums. We don't want to ruin anyone else's experience, we just want to feel like we're accomplishing something when we play the game we love.

Fingolfinn01

I like eso, however without an epic battle for the story quests, especially the story arc, its forgotten almost immediately.

We talk about the battles, not the story. In eso vanilla, we heard many stories about the tough fights. Now we just hear how boring the quests are without a punctuated battle to make them awesome.

I will most likely not play eso until they have difficulty options for the quests.

colossalvoids

TaSheen wrote: »

jad11mumbler wrote: »

ZOS_Icy wrote: »

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

Entire thread is unnecessary back and forth at this point.

Notably a few character's who keep returning.


Another year where ZoS actively plans to Not do anything to address harder overland


Wild that there's enough demand for it to warrant it's own Dev Thread to stop there being too many posts, yet "It's only a slim minority."
Which didn't stop ZoS from adding a card game, companions...

It's not because "enough demand". It's because there were so many threads repeating the same stuff week in and week out that Kevin decided to sticky it here.

Not exactly true, whilst there were indeed a lot of threads at the time it boils down to what Rich said in one of his streams which wasn't received positively by part of the community and content creators, people actively tried to convince him via dms on discord after which we've got this master thread in about a month or so if I remember correctly. It's indeed removed some heat at the time.

It didn't stopped creators from asking for a popular requested feature but at least funneled forum feedback into one convenient place for moderation.

TaSheen

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

It's not because "enough demand". It's because there were so many threads repeating the same stuff week in and week out that Kevin decided to sticky it here.

Multiple threads consistently asking for the same feature to be added week in and week out sounds like demand to me.

It was the same people over and over and over, week in and week out.

TaSheen

colossalvoids wrote: »

Not exactly true, whilst there were indeed a lot of threads at the time it boils down to what Rich said in one of his streams which wasn't received positively by part of the community and content creators, people actively tried to convince him via dms on discord after which we've got this master thread in about a month or so if I remember correctly. It's indeed removed some heat at the time.

It didn't stopped creators from asking for a popular requested feature but at least funneled forum feedback into one convenient place for moderation.

This is the first paragraph of Kevin's post at the top of the first page of this thread:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All. We have seen the multitude of threads related to Overland Content. The increase in weekly threads around this issue has caused some users to have a negative experience on the forum overall, leading to the threads being closed. However, we also recognize there are players who would like to discuss this topic. So, we have made a thread for players who would like to discuss the topic of Overland Content.

As for the rest of what you stated, I never heard that from anyone until just now. I do not however pay any attention to streems from Rich, or to content creators, or to discord.

Jammy420

GatheredMyst wrote: »

It's not coming.

"Similarly, open-world content is balanced for casual play; ZOS is not going to make the open-world game or story content too hard because they don’t want people to quit. People who want challenge are funneled into dungeons." ~Rich, paraphrased by Massively

Source: https://massivelyop.com/2024/01/18/elder-scrolls-onlines-gold-road-chapter-takes-players-back-to-oblivions-best-city-on-june-3/

I'm going to try my best to be constructive here, but I can't help but say this honestly: this response is tone deaf. There is a difference between casual and brain dead. Story bosses dying in seconds. Overland mobs melting under AE's if you're using green quality gear. Mobs being more of a nuisance than anything else. The intricacy of my build not mattering at all because I will barely get to use more than a few abilities every encounter outside of a dungeon or world boss.

This is seriously what the devs feel is "casual"? This is legit the state that the devs *want* to leave the game in for the grand majority of released content? That's astonishing to me. I cannot fathom how this is "good enough".

And you know what? Fine and dandy to those who want to turn their brain off when they come home from a hard day of work and just watch story-lines play out like a movie. I don't want to take away from their enjoyment of the game either. Most people, myself included, are only hoping for the *option* of being able to engage ourselves while playing the game for all of the big releases and expansion launches, and we can't do that unless we buckle ourselves into a raid team?

That's disappointing. It's disheartening. And it about takes the air out of my sails looking forward to future releases. The quality of systems and content that this team puts out is incredibly high quality. Scribing looks like a great foundation that can be built upon for future releases to continue expanding player choice. I even love the little side activities like antiquities. I've spent more hours than I care to count in the card game because I think it's really well done.

But... I also want to feel like i'm playing a video game when I engage content outside of those things, and it seems the devs have completely written that off. The only place i'm going to find not even a challenge, but something that closely resembles a balanced game-play experience, is a dungeon or raid?

What a friggin' shame.

You all are talented people. But I can't subscribe or purchase something that doesn't engage me, and looking at the number of posts in this thread, it seems like your decision to ignore even the thought of an option is a huge mistake.

Couldnt have said it better myself. There is an ocean of difference between brain dead content, and casual. They are doubling down on face roll content, which is extremely disappointing. Guess I will not be spending any more on this game. What a shame. Will reconsider purchases from them in the future. It is honestly insulting to say that THIS level of easy is what " casuals " want. Absolutely insulting.

spartaxoxo

This level of easy is what a lot of casual players want though. Plenty of people just want to come home from school and relax. ESO is a successful game, and the story mode is by far the most used part, there's clearly an audience for it.

And that's fine. There are ways they can add difficulty options without messing with the content that a large part of their audience enjoys.

Jammy420

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This level of easy is what a lot of casual players want though. Plenty of people just want to come home from school and relax. ESO is a successful game, and the story mode is by far the most used part, there's clearly an audience for it.

And that audience could easily still do that same content, and then they could just add a separate instance, a food, a sort of prestige system to start over with levels, ala CoD and many other games, ANYTHING, all of which would not affect those players in the least. No one is asking for it to be changed for everyone. It would however be a nod to the players who are jumping overboard en masse because the game is no longer engaging.

All I see here is ZoS showing a complete disinterest in any other player bases except the super casual, I will not even insult casual players by saying this is meant for them.

spartaxoxo

Jammy420 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This level of easy is what a lot of casual players want though. Plenty of people just want to come home from school and relax. ESO is a successful game, and the story mode is by far the most used part, there's clearly an audience for it.

And that audience could easily still do that same content, and then they could just add a separate instance, a food, a sort of prestige system to start over with levels, ala CoD and many other games, ANYTHING, all of which would not affect those players in the least. No one is asking for it to be changed for everyone. It would however be a nod to the players who are jumping overboard en masse because the game is no longer engaging.

All I see here is ZoS showing a complete disinterest in any other player bases except the super casual, I will not even insult casual players by saying this is meant for them.

The people who like it describe themselves as casual, so I don't see how making it seem so impossible to enjoy the content is supposed to be less insulting.

But, okay. Anyway, I do agree they could add something in that's optional. They have been very clear that they will not separate the playerbase. A slider doesn't do that. I don't see why something like that couldn't be implemented and they have never addressed it properly. That's what I personally find frustrating.

RaptorRodeoGod

They should close this thread because its not productive at this point, and either ban talking about harder overland all together, or give us our own forum section.

Aliniel

After three years and 200 pages of discussions I think it's pretty clear they don't care about this at all.

Four_Fingers

They care, we just don't seem be able to accept their answer is to add more harder content like IA and be satisfied with it.
We need to think of overland as a lobby or hub with things to do in it that connects the harder content.

spartaxoxo

Four_Fingers wrote: »

They care, we just don't seem be able to accept their answer is to add more harder content like IA and be satisfied with it.
We need to think of overland as a lobby or hub with things to do in it that connects the harder content.

Unfortunately, I do think this is how they see Overland. You're right about that.

disky

Four_Fingers wrote: »

We need to think of overland as a lobby or hub with things to do in it that connects the harder content.

The issue is that Elder Scrolls games have never been solely about dungeons, they've been about exploration and discovery and epic stories. You don't get that from a 20-minute repeatable dungeon. You don't get it from Infinite Archive. You get it from roaming a sprawling landscape and encountering something unexpected.

A rat maze dungeon is never going to provide that, especially given how dungeons and trials often MUST be played, because most people feel a need to rush through as fast as possible and if you're lagging behind to take in the story, you're letting down the group. If we're thinking of overland as a waiting room then we're leaving the thing that has made Elder Scrolls compelling for the last thirty years on the table. It's unacceptable.

erdYrrson

Tough.

I enjoy overland as it is tremendously.

And that for nearly 3000 hours past year. Well, some dungeons within the time, but those aren't my style. Imperial City sewers gave me a more dungeon-like feeling - for that one solo run to get the skyshards. And the sewers count towards overland, I guess. Funny that.

Four_Fingers

Problem is ESO was never meant to be a pure Elder Scrolls game, but rather an Elder Scrolls themed MMORPG.
Of course the solo games never had anything like a hub because there was no need and more main content was on the overland.
I never found ES games to be all that difficult to begin with, especially when I go back and play them now without too many mods.

disky

erdYrrson wrote: »

Tough.

I enjoy overland as it is tremendously.

I don't see why so many people who enjoy the status quo are so aggressively against an *optional* change. Do you understand that we don't want your experience to become more challenging? I'm happy that you get to have an experience you enjoy. We simply want to have the option to do the same. There's no need for hostility.

TaSheen

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tough.

I enjoy overland as it is tremendously.

I don't see why so many people who enjoy the status quo are so aggressively against an *optional* change. Do you understand that we don't want your experience to become more challenging? I'm happy that you get to have an experience you enjoy. We simply want to have the option to do the same. There's no need for hostility.

That wasn't sparta's statement, that belongs to @erdYrrson.

erdYrrson

aggressively?

In the past posts I have seen a lot of venting, but not from player who are trying to make a point pro overland as it is. And for me, I think, this is the fourth or fifth post in this topic. And only writing my personal view, never stating that many or we or a large player base want this or that. I give the "aggressively" right back to you. Thanks

Edit: adding quote of the post I was referring to

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tough.

I enjoy overland as it is tremendously.

I don't see why so many people who enjoy the status quo are so aggressively against an *optional* change. Do you understand that we don't want your experience to become more challenging? I'm happy that you get to have an experience you enjoy. We simply want to have the option to do the same. There's no need for hostility.

disky

erdYrrson wrote: »

aggressively?

In the past posts I have seen a lot of venting, but not from player who are trying to make a point pro overland as it is. And for me, I think, this is the fourth or fifth post in this topic. And only writing my personal view, never stating that many or we or a large player base want this or that. I give the "aggressively" right back to you. Thanks

Using terms like "tough" implies that you're happy with things as they are and everyone else be damned, which feels very unnecessarily aggressive to me because there is no reason we can't all be happy.

Jammy420

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This level of easy is what a lot of casual players want though. Plenty of people just want to come home from school and relax. ESO is a successful game, and the story mode is by far the most used part, there's clearly an audience for it.

And that audience could easily still do that same content, and then they could just add a separate instance, a food, a sort of prestige system to start over with levels, ala CoD and many other games, ANYTHING, all of which would not affect those players in the least. No one is asking for it to be changed for everyone. It would however be a nod to the players who are jumping overboard en masse because the game is no longer engaging.

All I see here is ZoS showing a complete disinterest in any other player bases except the super casual, I will not even insult casual players by saying this is meant for them.

The people who like it describe themselves as casual, so I don't see how making it seem so impossible to enjoy the content is supposed to be less insulting.

But, okay. Anyway, I do agree they could add something in that's optional. They have been very clear that they will not separate the playerbase. A slider doesn't do that. I don't see why something like that couldn't be implemented and they have never addressed it properly. That's what I personally find frustrating.

They can call themselves that all they want, that doesn't mean they are representative of actual casual players. I casually play God of War, but I still play it on Hard. A separate instance would not separate the player base, the players are not suddenly going to vanish from existence simply because there is an instance for harder content, they just get reshuffled. And at the VERY least we could get some sort of " restart at lvl 1 w/ extra difficulty " or SOMETHING. Same with Story Dungeons, why on earth are they alienating entire demographics? The "casuals" want solo dungeons, and the " vet " players want more difficult overland, and ZoS is not addressing either.

Four_Fingers wrote: »

They care, we just don't seem be able to accept their answer is to add more harder content like IA and be satisfied with it.
We need to think of overland as a lobby or hub with things to do in it that connects the harder content.

So, we paid for 60-euro lobbies? Interesting take. Extremely toxic if that's what their reasoning.

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

erdYrrson wrote: »

Tough.

I enjoy overland as it is tremendously.

I don't see why so many people who enjoy the status quo are so aggressively against an *optional* change. Do you understand that we don't want your experience to become more challenging? I'm happy that you get to have an experience you enjoy. We simply want to have the option to do the same. There's no need for hostility.

I honestly have never seen a more toxic group of players. And I used to be on the GoW forums.

erdYrrson

jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »

Using terms like "tough" implies that you're happy with things as they are and everyone else be damned, which feels very unnecessarily aggressive to me because there is no reason we can't all be happy.

I can see that and it was a reaction to some content before like the brain-dead-overland-content-post, that is only for super casuals and that all is not playable anymore and generally nobody listens to 200 pages of demanding a change (the latter isn't true at all of course, since there were posts from no change at all over separate instance to optional buff/debuff) and so on. Then again it is simply tough, not "tough luck" or something I would see as malice or mocking.

Also I don't understand that rather extreme venting. It's a temporary setback, yes. But the game steers - as far as I see it - towards more and more individualisation, mentioning the Infinite Archive as an existing example - or the sort of announced story mode for dungeons. I am pretty sure there will be more of that in the coming years and I guess some sort of difficulty change will come as well. When and in what form? I don't know. Will I like it? Same answer. I just don't think the game is ready for it now.

disky

erdYrrson wrote: »

I am pretty sure there will be more of that in the coming years and I guess some sort of difficulty change will come as well. When and in what form? I don't know. Will I like it? Same answer. I just don't think the game is ready for it now.

What does this mean? Not ready for it? How could the game not be ready for it, when we have instanced content AND PvP with systems that adjust challenge using code that could potentially be applied to the kind of system we're looking for? And considering the fact that it could (and should) be made optional, I don't see how the game could be more ready.

erdYrrson

I agree to disagree.

Aliniel

I am baffled by the fact there are people who are happy about playing an expansion for 10+ hours, and then finally reaching the epic conclusion and facing the daedric prince who was manipulating everyone and everything into invading and enslaving or destoying the world, only to defeat him in 5 seconds. He can't even finish his dialog in 5s.

TaSheen

Hmm. Vandacia took me numerous tries over a week or thereabouts to finally get past him. The Ascendent Magus took me longer than that. I'm not a "new player" - this is my 6th year. I don't have great internet - all that's available where I live (yes, in the lower 48) is satellite, otherwise known as "built in mega-ping". Also, I'm 76 years old, and my reflexes suck. So using the "sidekick" powers we're given (like Abnur's shield, the Ambition, the heal or whatever from Ayrenn) require much less ping than I have to actually get them to work.

I never did get past Nokvroz.... I've never been good at twitchy combat, and it's worse now that I'm so much older - and living where there's no "real broadband" is also problmeatic.

I'm not even able to reliably kill a 1 gem troll in 5 seconds. I would LOVE to be able to kill story quest bosses in one go, in less than a minute. Not happening!

Elsonso

Aliniel wrote: »

I am baffled by the fact there are people who are happy about playing an expansion for 10+ hours, and then finally reaching the epic conclusion and facing the daedric prince who was manipulating everyone and everything into invading and enslaving or destoying the world, only to defeat him in 5 seconds. He can't even finish his dialog in 5s.

Necrom had a fairly tough boss. I suspect that the number of people who killed them in 5 seconds was smaller than the number who never did and rage quit.

Kendaric

Aliniel wrote: »

I am baffled by the fact there are people who are happy about playing an expansion for 10+ hours, and then finally reaching the epic conclusion and facing the daedric prince who was manipulating everyone and everything into invading and enslaving or destoying the world, only to defeat him in 5 seconds. He can't even finish his dialog in 5s.

There's nothing baffling about it, not everyone is able to kill story bosses fast or considers overland to be "brain-dead easy". Like @TaSheen , I had a lot of difficulties with various story bosses (namely the Ascendant Lord in High Isle and Lady Belain in Markarth) or was so far unable to defeat them (the Grey Host leader in the epilogue of Markarth/Greymoor).

Not every player uses optimal skills or cares about builds, etc., there are a lot of players who can't solo a WB or a normal basegame dungeon. Others, like me, have disabilities, bad reflexes or are simply getting too old (or any combination of reasons).
The potentially difficult fight with the story boss in Necrom was one of the reasons I didn't buy the chapter (among the other reasons is my dislike of the Seekers).

valenwood_vegan

Aliniel wrote: »

I am baffled by the fact there are people who are happy about playing an expansion for 10+ hours, and then finally reaching the epic conclusion and facing the daedric prince who was manipulating everyone and everything into invading and enslaving or destoying the world, only to defeat him in 5 seconds. He can't even finish his dialog in 5s.

I mean I want something like a difficulty slider or increased difficulty instances in overland, but it's quite possible that their data is telling them that only a minority engages in more difficult parts of the game. I certainly don't know, but it is very likely that "killing the necrom questline boss in 5 seconds" is not a typical experience. I have seen many posts on here to the contrary.

I sincerely hope that ZoS continues to look at this issue and ways to make the overland experience more satisfying for vet players, but just because YOU found it easy does not mean other people did.