Ravensilver wrote: »Why is everyone focused on just the fights?
Is that all that engages you in the game?
I've seen mention of invasions. Longer questlines. More exploration. More secret locations and bosses.
I offered stuff like the entire server working together to achieve a goal - like building a city or defending one from invasion.
I'd like to see a great deal more variety (and I wouldn't even mind if the difficulty was also varied) in the overland activities.
Right now, I don't see anyone doing WBs in older zones. I sit around and wait for ages for someone to come along and help kill a dragon in NE. Why? Aren't these fights *exactly* what you're looking for?
Franchise408 wrote: »Ravensilver wrote: »Why is everyone focused on just the fights?
Is that all that engages you in the game?
I've seen mention of invasions. Longer questlines. More exploration. More secret locations and bosses.
I offered stuff like the entire server working together to achieve a goal - like building a city or defending one from invasion.
I'd like to see a great deal more variety (and I wouldn't even mind if the difficulty was also varied) in the overland activities.
Right now, I don't see anyone doing WBs in older zones. I sit around and wait for ages for someone to come along and help kill a dragon in NE. Why? Aren't these fights *exactly* what you're looking for?
Because the quests themselves are disengaging?
Quest arrows tell you exactly where to find whatever object the NPC is sending you off to find, there is nothing to have to figure out or work to overcome. The game tells you exactly what to do and exactly how to do it. The only thing left is the fights, and those die to 1 push of an "I win" button.
I'm honestly not sure how *anyone* can find overland and solo questing fun, it's so easy that the game is basically playing itself for you.
Some people mentioned that overland content has always been easy. Others say it has only become easy due to One Tamriel. Neither is really correct in my recollection.
We did have harder overland, but it wasn't the Cadwell zones Rich mentioned, or even Craglorn.
It was everywhere.
karthrag_inak wrote: »khajiit would enjoy if perhaps there were small regions in every zone that were populated with tougher mobs, with the benefit that perhaps they would drop better overland gear (higher chance of purple maybe) and the crafting nodes in the area would give higher chance of slightly more resources. Would add a bit of character to the zones.
Franchise408 wrote: »Because the quests themselves are disengaging?
Quest arrows tell you exactly where to find whatever object the NPC is sending you off to find, there is nothing to have to figure out or work to overcome. The game tells you exactly what to do and exactly how to do it. The only thing left is the fights, and those die to 1 push of an "I win" button.
I'm honestly not sure how *anyone* can find overland and solo questing fun, it's so easy that the game is basically playing itself for you.
SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »Because the quests themselves are disengaging?
Quest arrows tell you exactly where to find whatever object the NPC is sending you off to find, there is nothing to have to figure out or work to overcome. The game tells you exactly what to do and exactly how to do it. The only thing left is the fights, and those die to 1 push of an "I win" button.
I'm honestly not sure how *anyone* can find overland and solo questing fun, it's so easy that the game is basically playing itself for you.
Increasing the difficulty of overland mobs isn't going to fix that. What is needed is a toggle to turn off quest markers. Do we already have something like this?
SilverBride wrote: »Some people mentioned that overland content has always been easy. Others say it has only become easy due to One Tamriel. Neither is really correct in my recollection.
We did have harder overland, but it wasn't the Cadwell zones Rich mentioned, or even Craglorn.
It was everywhere.
This is not correct. Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold were veteran levels of the other 2 factions' zones that you did after completing your own faction's zones. This is the 2/3 of the game Rich said was not being played because players didn't like difficulty and didn't want to struggle with the story.
Craglorn was created as an "adventure zone". It was so difficult that everything you did, even questing, required a group. That is why I left when I did. I struggled through Silver and Gold but once those were completed I literally was unable to play any more. Trying to find a group to quest with where everyone was on the same step of the quest chain was next to impossible. This led to groups not even doing the story but just grouping and zerging. My character was stuck and could no longer progress.karthrag_inak wrote: »khajiit would enjoy if perhaps there were small regions in every zone that were populated with tougher mobs, with the benefit that perhaps they would drop better overland gear (higher chance of purple maybe) and the crafting nodes in the area would give higher chance of slightly more resources. Would add a bit of character to the zones.
We already have that with World Bosses. Western Skyrim also has Harrowstorms and Giant camps, with giants and mammoths that are more difficult than the normal mobs. Summerset has geysers. I see River Trolls in some zones that are also more difficult than normal mobs. These things are already there.
Far as solutions...personally, I think it's high time we try another vet zone like original Craglorn - but without forced grouping and with better rewards.
So I am a bit confused here, are you actually looking for a greater challenge, or just another zone to get better rewards from? Not to be judgmental here, but I "feel" like a good portion of the folks who support this, know they blow through vet content regardless of how hard ZOS makes it, and just want more places to do it and reap better rewards from it. Like purple jewelry from trash mobs in overland being the common drop and gold from all the bosses.
Feel free to correct me, but wanting a greater challenge traversing the world to make it more exciting, and having more places to farm better loot, aren't the same thing... at least I don't see it that way. Would you be satisfied with just the challenge?
Far as solutions...personally, I think it's high time we try another vet zone like original Craglorn - but without forced grouping and with better rewards.
So I am a bit confused here, are you actually looking for a greater challenge, or just another zone to get better rewards from? Not to be judgmental here, but I "feel" like a good portion of the folks who support this, know they blow through vet content regardless of how hard ZOS makes it, and just want more places to do it and reap better rewards from it. Like purple jewelry from trash mobs in overland being the common drop and gold from all the bosses.
Feel free to correct me, but wanting a greater challenge traversing the world to make it more exciting, and having more places to farm better loot, aren't the same thing... at least I don't see it that way. Would you be satisfied with just the challenge?
My 'reward' comment was rather in relation to original Craglorn, not current game. I suppose I may have worded that poorly. I don't know if you were here when original Craglorn launched, but it had objectively worst rewards the game's ever had in risk + time vs reward ratio. There were a couple very lucrative grinding spots at some point which ZOS quickly nerfed to nothing, there were Trials, but actual questing and world events dropped GREEN gear of super useless sets. Imagine going through like 2-3 hours of completing Shada's Tear (that place HURT back then) and recieving 1 green trash item as reward. And it was a daily too, in fact there were quite a few dailies like that. Imagine if dragon dailies in Elsweyr only dropped green trash?
I'd be fine with it simply having rewards on par with any of the recent zones. Blue gear, maybe some semi-useful set somewhere, a memento or something somewhere perhaps, dailies rewarding motifs/furnishings recipes, some titles/outfits obtained by questing or doing zone achieves, etc. That's plenty enough for a zone to not feel useless. Too bad they didn't realize that back before Craglorn.
Blackbird_V wrote: »How is a toggle on quest markers going to make it better?
Blackbird_V wrote: »As for Craglorn: it was handled badly, I agree. Game has changed since then...
...That stuff was unpopular because the game was different then. Alliance locking was so bad..... it caused massive divide and was less socialising. Like please, just understand. 5+ years and the game has change A LOT since then. We have EVEN more players now.....................
SilverBride wrote: »Blackbird_V wrote: »How is a toggle on quest markers going to make it better?
By removing the markers that the poster is unhappy with.
Blackbird_V wrote: »As for Craglorn: it was handled badly, I agree. Game has changed since then...
...That stuff was unpopular because the game was different then. Alliance locking was so bad..... it caused massive divide and was less socialising. Like please, just understand. 5+ years and the game has change A LOT since then. We have EVEN more players now.....................
Blackbird_V wrote: »Far as solutions...personally, I think it's high time we try another vet zone like original Craglorn - but without forced grouping and with better rewards.
So I am a bit confused here, are you actually looking for a greater challenge, or just another zone to get better rewards from? Not to be judgmental here, but I "feel" like a good portion of the folks who support this, know they blow through vet content regardless of how hard ZOS makes it, and just want more places to do it and reap better rewards from it. Like purple jewelry from trash mobs in overland being the common drop and gold from all the bosses.
Feel free to correct me, but wanting a greater challenge traversing the world to make it more exciting, and having more places to farm better loot, aren't the same thing... at least I don't see it that way. Would you be satisfied with just the challenge?
My 'reward' comment was rather in relation to original Craglorn, not current game. I suppose I may have worded that poorly. I don't know if you were here when original Craglorn launched, but it had objectively worst rewards the game's ever had in risk + time vs reward ratio. There were a couple very lucrative grinding spots at some point which ZOS quickly nerfed to nothing, there were Trials, but actual questing and world events dropped GREEN gear of super useless sets. Imagine going through like 2-3 hours of completing Shada's Tear (that place HURT back then) and recieving 1 green trash item as reward. And it was a daily too, in fact there were quite a few dailies like that. Imagine if dragon dailies in Elsweyr only dropped green trash?
I'd be fine with it simply having rewards on par with any of the recent zones. Blue gear, maybe some semi-useful set somewhere, a memento or something somewhere perhaps, dailies rewarding motifs/furnishings recipes, some titles/outfits obtained by questing or doing zone achieves, etc. That's plenty enough for a zone to not feel useless. Too bad they didn't realize that back before Craglorn.
Rewards ALWAYS incentivise. It's the reason new trials have perfected gear. In MANY games, harder difficulty always gives better rewards.
Your point about Craglorn is 100% correct. Became quickly a dead zone, only used for pugging, trading and crafting. The absolute end-game area that gave next to nothing killed it off. The only time I remember people doing Craglorn stuff in the day was for the Yokeda motif, which was worth a good penny back then.
This is an MMO. You get rewarded for your time. The more time spent should always mean a better reward. Not some set item that is dead. Also back then with Trials you had tradeable rewards like Worm, Soulshine etc (raids still are done because of rewards). You can see this by seeing how dead vCraglorn Trials are. All are practically dead other than vHRC due to Advancing Yokeda set. They're also nowhere near as fun as the DLC Trials. I love me a good vMoL.
Rewards incentivise people to do harder content. People will "git gud" in order to get through harder content for rewards. They may begin to enjoy it and get better at the game, and may go on to maybe do Gryphon Heart. You never know. Until ZoS experiments with this I can only speculate.
Franchise408 wrote: »If any of the above mentioned compromises are too much, then I would prefer to just see a wide spread increase in difficulty across the entire game and be made mandatory, not optional.
SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »If any of the above mentioned compromises are too much, then I would prefer to just see a wide spread increase in difficulty across the entire game and be made mandatory, not optional.
If this were to happen the game would lose the majority of its playerbase and no longer be financially viable, and would have to be shut down.
Franchise408 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »If any of the above mentioned compromises are too much, then I would prefer to just see a wide spread increase in difficulty across the entire game and be made mandatory, not optional.
If this were to happen the game would lose the majority of its playerbase and no longer be financially viable, and would have to be shut down.
Doubtful, as every MMO in existence is harder than ESO is, and plenty of them are far more successful.
SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »If any of the above mentioned compromises are too much, then I would prefer to just see a wide spread increase in difficulty across the entire game and be made mandatory, not optional.
If this were to happen the game would lose the majority of its playerbase and no longer be financially viable, and would have to be shut down.
Doubtful, as every MMO in existence is harder than ESO is, and plenty of them are far more successful.
Other games have level ranges for their zones and are very linear in how a player progresses through these. Even then the questing zones in most MMO's are not difficult.
SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »If any of the above mentioned compromises are too much, then I would prefer to just see a wide spread increase in difficulty across the entire game and be made mandatory, not optional.
If this were to happen the game would lose the majority of its playerbase and no longer be financially viable, and would have to be shut down.
Doubtful, as every MMO in existence is harder than ESO is, and plenty of them are far more successful.
Other games have level ranges for their zones and are very linear in how a player progresses through these. Even then the questing zones in most MMO's are not difficult.
Franchise408 wrote: »SWG actually died because of its simplification, and turning it into what you are advocating for ESO to be.
SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SWG actually died because of its simplification, and turning it into what you are advocating for ESO to be.
I am not asking that ESO become anything or change in any way. I am advocating for it to not change and to remain exactly as it has been since One Tamriel was introduced 5 years ago, as far as overland difficulty is involved. This change did not kill ESO. On the contrary, it is now more successful now than it's ever been.
SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SWG actually died because of its simplification, and turning it into what you are advocating for ESO to be.
I am not asking that ESO become anything or change in any way. I am advocating for it to not change and to remain exactly as it has been since One Tamriel was introduced 5 years ago, as far as overland difficulty is involved. This change did not kill ESO. On the contrary, it is more successful now than it's ever been.
Franchise408 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SWG actually died because of its simplification, and turning it into what you are advocating for ESO to be.
I am not asking that ESO become anything or change in any way. I am advocating for it to not change and to remain exactly as it has been since One Tamriel was introduced 5 years ago, as far as overland difficulty is involved. This change did not kill ESO. On the contrary, it is more successful now than it's ever been.
And an MMO cannot be stagnant. It needs to be able to change and evolve, otherwise it will die.
Right now, overland content has been stagnant since 2014. I needs an update
SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SWG actually died because of its simplification, and turning it into what you are advocating for ESO to be.
I am not asking that ESO become anything or change in any way. I am advocating for it to not change and to remain exactly as it has been since One Tamriel was introduced 5 years ago, as far as overland difficulty is involved. This change did not kill ESO. On the contrary, it is more successful now than it's ever been.
And an MMO cannot be stagnant. It needs to be able to change and evolve, otherwise it will die.
Right now, overland content has been stagnant since 2014. I needs an update
I disagree with your opinion. ESO has never been more successful than it is today.
"I totally hear you on the difficulty thing. I like things to be more difficult. But you know, the data doesn’t lie. And we have never been more successful than we are today. And a lot of that has to do with just how much freedom players have to go and experience story." - Rich Lambert
SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SWG actually died because of its simplification, and turning it into what you are advocating for ESO to be.
I am not asking that ESO become anything or change in any way. I am advocating for it to not change and to remain exactly as it has been since One Tamriel was introduced 5 years ago, as far as overland difficulty is involved. This change did not kill ESO. On the contrary, it is more successful now than it's ever been.
And an MMO cannot be stagnant. It needs to be able to change and evolve, otherwise it will die.
Right now, overland content has been stagnant since 2014. I needs an update
I disagree. ESO is not stagnant and has never been more successful than it is today.
"I totally hear you on the difficulty thing. I like things to be more difficult. But you know, the data doesn’t lie. And we have never been more successful than we are today. And a lot of that has to do with just how much freedom players have to go and experience story." - Rich Lambert
EU PC 2000+ CP professional mudballer and pie thrower"Sheggorath, you are the Skooma Cat, for what is crazier than a cat on skooma?" - Fadomai
Blackbird_V wrote: »Yes keep quoting Rich Lambert, and ignoring the points I've and others have made on that. All your defence is is a quote and your opinion.
Whoa 17 pages! sorry too long didn't read.
Overland is just a part of the story and not meant as a challenge. So leave it be.
If you really want some fun just turn off the HUD. No quest markers or compass pointers no skill bar or health/mana/stamina and see how long you can play before you turn it back on. They could call that "questing hardmode" and give an achievement for it.
I do it all the time and only turn on for NPC dialog. You should try it.
SilverBride wrote: »Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »The only time I ever heard overland difficulty being discussed in game was before One Tamriel. Players were complaining and leaving because it was too much of a struggle to be fun. That is the reason I left, too.
Since I returned a couple of years ago I have not heard a single player complain that overland is too easy. Not in zone chat, not in guild chat, not in groups, not among my friends... not one single player ever, and I play every day.
Overland difficulty isn't a game issue at all... it's a forum issue.
That's probably because you're not around the folks that find it too easy. The folks you hang around are probably more tailored to the way you like to play. Soo many of my friends (real life friends and in game) have quit because it's so easy it's boring. I miss playing with them. They don't bother coming back because the game offers little in challenge. An optional harder overland would likely increase a lottt of player interest that have given up on the stories being engaging combat-wise.
This is an inaccurate assumption about how I play and who I associate with in game.
First of all, how would I know who I'm not compatible with unless I had actually met players who made it clear they thought overland was too easy and didn't play the way I do?
Second, how in years of playing and being in guilds and grouping with random (not hand picked) players for World Bosses and Harrowstorms and Dragons and daily quests and chatting in zone and an occasional pug dungeon, have I never even once heard anyone complain that overland was too easy?
If there were really a lot of players who feel that way I should have at least run into one now and then. The fact that I haven't tells me they are a very small minority.