SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »The problem before One Tamriel was you would out-level the content if you did take the time to explore and do all the quests. So players were forced to deal with the tedium of doing content designed for players much lower than them. It was so bad players were asking for a way to turn off their experience bar.
That is the exact opposite of what I experienced. I never out leveled anything and I do all the quests in every zone. I ended up leaving because I was stuck and unable to progress because all that was left after Silver and Gold was Craglorn.
I don't see how that was possible, SilverBride. Because I remember out-leveling the zone before I even had a third of it completed. I honestly don't see how anyone who took their time in a zone and did everything in it before One Tamriel could do so without out-leveling it in the process.
And I wasn't alone, either. The forums were filled with threads of people having the same problem. As I mentioned, it was so bad it was a popular request on here that people be allowed to turn off their experience bar.
I didn't see what you experienced either. All I know is players were quitting right and left because of the veteran zones and Craglorn and that drove me away, too.
I'm not talking about the Veteran Zones. I am talking about before that. You were already level 50 when you started doing those.
The problem with the Veteran Zones was you had to grind those ranks and that drove a lot of people away. It killed my first guild in fact and made them all quit. lol
Sylvermynx wrote: »I have 6 across 2 accounts, both PC megaservers. However, it took me over a year to get my first one....
If the server is able to maintain track of a player's level and scale everything to that person's level while at the same time taking into account the quote on quote "10 million" other player's level, then it should be able to maintain track of who has something like a "veteran mode" and scale levels differently so long as the toggle replaces the initial calculations with new calculations.
I believe the problem here is profit, not implementation.
Well, how about this? If I stop playing because it's boring, I won't buy what you put out.
This has to be the only logical conclussion. This topic has been alive for many years on the forums.
That isn't how scaling works at all.
All enemies are always at the same set level, which is level 50 cp 160 I believe. At no point are the enemies scaled to player level.
Players are given buffs below level 50 to be as strong as someone at level 50 cp 160. The players are scaled, but that scaling is done at the player stat level and not at the enemy level. It is far far far different than enemies scaling to player levels, which is not happening.
Still the same level, still stagnant. The details don't matter much, what matters is that everything feels the same and that is BORING.
It also doesn't make the story believable.
The details absolutely matter when you make the claims you are making, namely, that it is easy for them to scale things now so it should be easy with whatever way you want to implement difficulty scaling. It's just false. When arguing for changes to the game, it helps to actually know how the game is even functioning in the first place. Credibility goes a long way. So yeah, the details matter.
The details don't matter because it's still boring no matter which way you put it. Whether I scale to mobs, they scale to me, they scale to the trees, the rocks scale to me, it doesn't matter. The end effect it has caused has made the game boring and stagnant. If tree textures could affect how the game plays and I say it's the rabbit's fault, doesn't matter. The effect itself is what I'm reacting to and the issue, whether it is the textures or the rabbit, needs to be fixed.
All the scaling does is treat all the zones as if they were level 50, which is where everyone is going to end up on an MMORPG anyway.
Why would having a lot of lower level zones that most people generally avoid make the game any more exciting or less stagnant?
Who's talking about high level players?
They can do trials and dungeons.
It doesn't exactly take long to hit level 50 on this game.
Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a level 50 character?
And besides, without scaling all the dungeons and trials in the lower level zones would be out of the question as well.
Sylvermynx wrote: »I have 6 across 2 accounts, both PC megaservers. However, it took me over a year to get my first one....
That's the thing, this is a MMORPG where players are expected to keep playing, many for years (even decades) after reaching max level.
If the server is able to maintain track of a player's level and scale everything to that person's level while at the same time taking into account the quote on quote "10 million" other player's level, then it should be able to maintain track of who has something like a "veteran mode" and scale levels differently so long as the toggle replaces the initial calculations with new calculations.
I believe the problem here is profit, not implementation.
Well, how about this? If I stop playing because it's boring, I won't buy what you put out.
This has to be the only logical conclussion. This topic has been alive for many years on the forums.
That isn't how scaling works at all.
All enemies are always at the same set level, which is level 50 cp 160 I believe. At no point are the enemies scaled to player level.
Players are given buffs below level 50 to be as strong as someone at level 50 cp 160. The players are scaled, but that scaling is done at the player stat level and not at the enemy level. It is far far far different than enemies scaling to player levels, which is not happening.
Still the same level, still stagnant. The details don't matter much, what matters is that everything feels the same and that is BORING.
It also doesn't make the story believable.
The details absolutely matter when you make the claims you are making, namely, that it is easy for them to scale things now so it should be easy with whatever way you want to implement difficulty scaling. It's just false. When arguing for changes to the game, it helps to actually know how the game is even functioning in the first place. Credibility goes a long way. So yeah, the details matter.
The details don't matter because it's still boring no matter which way you put it. Whether I scale to mobs, they scale to me, they scale to the trees, the rocks scale to me, it doesn't matter. The end effect it has caused has made the game boring and stagnant. If tree textures could affect how the game plays and I say it's the rabbit's fault, doesn't matter. The effect itself is what I'm reacting to and the issue, whether it is the textures or the rabbit, needs to be fixed.
All the scaling does is treat all the zones as if they were level 50, which is where everyone is going to end up on an MMORPG anyway.
Why would having a lot of lower level zones that most people generally avoid make the game any more exciting or less stagnant?
Who's talking about high level players?
They can do trials and dungeons.
It doesn't exactly take long to hit level 50 on this game.
Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a level 50 character?
And besides, without scaling all the dungeons and trials in the lower level zones would be out of the question as well.
It doesn't take long to get to 50 if you grind, sure. People who care about the story don't grind.
Dungeons and trials are not overland content.
If the server is able to maintain track of a player's level and scale everything to that person's level while at the same time taking into account the quote on quote "10 million" other player's level, then it should be able to maintain track of who has something like a "veteran mode" and scale levels differently so long as the toggle replaces the initial calculations with new calculations.
I believe the problem here is profit, not implementation.
Well, how about this? If I stop playing because it's boring, I won't buy what you put out.
This has to be the only logical conclussion. This topic has been alive for many years on the forums.
That isn't how scaling works at all.
All enemies are always at the same set level, which is level 50 cp 160 I believe. At no point are the enemies scaled to player level.
Players are given buffs below level 50 to be as strong as someone at level 50 cp 160. The players are scaled, but that scaling is done at the player stat level and not at the enemy level. It is far far far different than enemies scaling to player levels, which is not happening.
Still the same level, still stagnant. The details don't matter much, what matters is that everything feels the same and that is BORING.
It also doesn't make the story believable.
The details absolutely matter when you make the claims you are making, namely, that it is easy for them to scale things now so it should be easy with whatever way you want to implement difficulty scaling. It's just false. When arguing for changes to the game, it helps to actually know how the game is even functioning in the first place. Credibility goes a long way. So yeah, the details matter.
The details don't matter because it's still boring no matter which way you put it. Whether I scale to mobs, they scale to me, they scale to the trees, the rocks scale to me, it doesn't matter. The end effect it has caused has made the game boring and stagnant. If tree textures could affect how the game plays and I say it's the rabbit's fault, doesn't matter. The effect itself is what I'm reacting to and the issue, whether it is the textures or the rabbit, needs to be fixed.
All the scaling does is treat all the zones as if they were level 50, which is where everyone is going to end up on an MMORPG anyway.
Why would having a lot of lower level zones that most people generally avoid make the game any more exciting or less stagnant?
Who's talking about high level players?
They can do trials and dungeons.
It doesn't exactly take long to hit level 50 on this game.
Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a level 50 character?
And besides, without scaling all the dungeons and trials in the lower level zones would be out of the question as well.
It doesn't take long to get to 50 if you grind, sure. People who care about the story don't grind.
Dungeons and trials are not overland content.
They may not be considered overland content, but that doesn't change the fact if they were not scaled then they would have remained on par with the level of the zones they are in and not suited for high level characters either.
I would also argue even if you don't grind and care about the story, it still doesn't take long to level on this game. The point is you are going to spend the vast majority of your time on this game at max level if you play it long term: unless you frequently do a lot of alts or something.
One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
Sylvermynx wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »I have 6 across 2 accounts, both PC megaservers. However, it took me over a year to get my first one....
That's the thing, this is a MMORPG where players are expected to keep playing, many for years (even decades) after reaching max level.
Yes, and this isn't my first rodeo.... I spent 7 years in WoW and quit only when Warlords of Draenor turned into something I just had no use for - can't remember what my mains' levels were, 90, 95? I then moved to RIFT, and played through Nightmare Tide, but left in 2016 when Starfall Prophecy was on the horizon. I think my mains in RIFT were 70 or close to it.
I literally spend years playing any game I've ever started. Whether single player or MMO.... Oh, except for Baldur's Gate II and I'm not going into the reasons why with that game. I've already been here 3.5 years, and I'm not planning on leaving (well, unless overland gets forced harder to the point where it won't be fun much less doable for me....)
If the server is able to maintain track of a player's level and scale everything to that person's level while at the same time taking into account the quote on quote "10 million" other player's level, then it should be able to maintain track of who has something like a "veteran mode" and scale levels differently so long as the toggle replaces the initial calculations with new calculations.
I believe the problem here is profit, not implementation.
Well, how about this? If I stop playing because it's boring, I won't buy what you put out.
This has to be the only logical conclussion. This topic has been alive for many years on the forums.
That isn't how scaling works at all.
All enemies are always at the same set level, which is level 50 cp 160 I believe. At no point are the enemies scaled to player level.
Players are given buffs below level 50 to be as strong as someone at level 50 cp 160. The players are scaled, but that scaling is done at the player stat level and not at the enemy level. It is far far far different than enemies scaling to player levels, which is not happening.
Still the same level, still stagnant. The details don't matter much, what matters is that everything feels the same and that is BORING.
It also doesn't make the story believable.
The details absolutely matter when you make the claims you are making, namely, that it is easy for them to scale things now so it should be easy with whatever way you want to implement difficulty scaling. It's just false. When arguing for changes to the game, it helps to actually know how the game is even functioning in the first place. Credibility goes a long way. So yeah, the details matter.
The details don't matter because it's still boring no matter which way you put it. Whether I scale to mobs, they scale to me, they scale to the trees, the rocks scale to me, it doesn't matter. The end effect it has caused has made the game boring and stagnant. If tree textures could affect how the game plays and I say it's the rabbit's fault, doesn't matter. The effect itself is what I'm reacting to and the issue, whether it is the textures or the rabbit, needs to be fixed.
All the scaling does is treat all the zones as if they were level 50, which is where everyone is going to end up on an MMORPG anyway.
Why would having a lot of lower level zones that most people generally avoid make the game any more exciting or less stagnant?
Who's talking about high level players?
They can do trials and dungeons.
It doesn't exactly take long to hit level 50 on this game.
Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a level 50 character?
And besides, without scaling all the dungeons and trials in the lower level zones would be out of the question as well.
It doesn't take long to get to 50 if you grind, sure. People who care about the story don't grind.
Dungeons and trials are not overland content.
They may not be considered overland content, but that doesn't change the fact if they were not scaled then they would have remained on par with the level of the zones they are in and not suited for high level characters either.
I would also argue even if you don't grind and care about the story, it still doesn't take long to level on this game. The point is you are going to spend the vast majority of your time on this game at max level if you play it long term: unless you frequently do a lot of alts or something.
Then don't apply the changes to dungeons and trials.
Lol. Is this real?
What do you usually do at max levels in MMOs? End game content? Ok
One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
Franchise408 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Blackbird_V wrote: »That was clearly sarcasm what that player put. Literally sarcasm.Franchise408 wrote: ».
4. If any of the above mentioned compromises are too much, then I would prefer to just see a wide spread increase in difficulty across the entire game and be made mandatory, not optional. Not changing anything is unacceptable to me, so if the above mentioned (or other) compromises are too much, then just increase the difficulty of the game to engage people who have been playing for years. This is my last preference tho, but it's better than just simply not addressing the issue.
No. It was not. It was their last preference and they stated they hoped it did not come to that, but they would rather it be forced than not have any of their solutions.
How is that difference than yourself, SilverBride, and others, trying to *force* me into easy overland?
Where did I state I'm trying to force you into anything? I don't agree with your solutions =/= I think no changes should be made to address this issue.
My solutions were (intended to all be done)
Give Debuffs to the player they can use in some way
Add challenge banners to story bosses
Add more content like the roaming bosses to the map to add threat near story zones
And we have explained ad nauseum why those solutions do nothing to address the issue.
One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
I'll never understand why people believe it's so "unrealistic" to release a veteran version of the landscape zones. They literally already do this with dungeons, and have done so with landscape zones in the past (they just had some annoying rank system attached to it).
There is nothing unrealistic about it.
If the server is able to maintain track of a player's level and scale everything to that person's level while at the same time taking into account the quote on quote "10 million" other player's level, then it should be able to maintain track of who has something like a "veteran mode" and scale levels differently so long as the toggle replaces the initial calculations with new calculations.
I believe the problem here is profit, not implementation.
Well, how about this? If I stop playing because it's boring, I won't buy what you put out.
This has to be the only logical conclussion. This topic has been alive for many years on the forums.
That isn't how scaling works at all.
All enemies are always at the same set level, which is level 50 cp 160 I believe. At no point are the enemies scaled to player level.
Players are given buffs below level 50 to be as strong as someone at level 50 cp 160. The players are scaled, but that scaling is done at the player stat level and not at the enemy level. It is far far far different than enemies scaling to player levels, which is not happening.
Still the same level, still stagnant. The details don't matter much, what matters is that everything feels the same and that is BORING.
It also doesn't make the story believable.
The details absolutely matter when you make the claims you are making, namely, that it is easy for them to scale things now so it should be easy with whatever way you want to implement difficulty scaling. It's just false. When arguing for changes to the game, it helps to actually know how the game is even functioning in the first place. Credibility goes a long way. So yeah, the details matter.
The details don't matter because it's still boring no matter which way you put it. Whether I scale to mobs, they scale to me, they scale to the trees, the rocks scale to me, it doesn't matter. The end effect it has caused has made the game boring and stagnant. If tree textures could affect how the game plays and I say it's the rabbit's fault, doesn't matter. The effect itself is what I'm reacting to and the issue, whether it is the textures or the rabbit, needs to be fixed.
All the scaling does is treat all the zones as if they were level 50, which is where everyone is going to end up on an MMORPG anyway.
Why would having a lot of lower level zones that most people generally avoid make the game any more exciting or less stagnant?
Who's talking about high level players?
They can do trials and dungeons.
It doesn't exactly take long to hit level 50 on this game.
Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a level 50 character?
And besides, without scaling all the dungeons and trials in the lower level zones would be out of the question as well.
It doesn't take long to get to 50 if you grind, sure. People who care about the story don't grind.
Dungeons and trials are not overland content.
They may not be considered overland content, but that doesn't change the fact if they were not scaled then they would have remained on par with the level of the zones they are in and not suited for high level characters either.
I would also argue even if you don't grind and care about the story, it still doesn't take long to level on this game. The point is you are going to spend the vast majority of your time on this game at max level if you play it long term: unless you frequently do a lot of alts or something.
Then don't apply the changes to dungeons and trials.
Lol. Is this real?
What do you usually do at max levels in MMOs? End game content? Ok
If they didn't apply scaling to the dungeons then they would have remained at lower levels and unsuited for high level characters also. It's the same as the overland in that respect. So I'm not sure what I said that has you confused.
Anyway: it seems you only consider doing dungeons and trials as activities that should be scaled for level 50 characters. So we just have a fundamental disagreement there, because I believe level 50 characters ought to be able to enjoy questing too.
One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
I'll never understand why people believe it's so "unrealistic" to release a veteran version of the landscape zones. They literally already do this with dungeons, and have done so with landscape zones in the past (they just had some annoying rank system attached to it).
There is nothing unrealistic about it.
Uhhhh to retroactively change the whole, existing map is huge. I literally suggested they try it with new content first.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
So, has anyone defined or agreed upon what vOL is yet, or is it still an undefined thought that will never happen?
All they would have to do is copy and paste the zone then make a slight alteration to the code and scale the enemies to w/e the current CP cap is instead of 160. It's not nearly as hard as you seem to think it is.
One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
I'll never understand why people believe it's so "unrealistic" to release a veteran version of the landscape zones. They literally already do this with dungeons, and have done so with landscape zones in the past (they just had some annoying rank system attached to it).
There is nothing unrealistic about it.
Uhhhh to retroactively change the whole, existing map is huge. I literally suggested they try it with new content first.
It's really not though.
All they would have to do is copy and paste the zone then make a slight alteration to the code and scale the enemies to w/e the current CP cap is instead of 160. It's not nearly as hard as you seem to think it is.
If the server is able to maintain track of a player's level and scale everything to that person's level while at the same time taking into account the quote on quote "10 million" other player's level, then it should be able to maintain track of who has something like a "veteran mode" and scale levels differently so long as the toggle replaces the initial calculations with new calculations.
I believe the problem here is profit, not implementation.
Well, how about this? If I stop playing because it's boring, I won't buy what you put out.
This has to be the only logical conclussion. This topic has been alive for many years on the forums.
That isn't how scaling works at all.
All enemies are always at the same set level, which is level 50 cp 160 I believe. At no point are the enemies scaled to player level.
Players are given buffs below level 50 to be as strong as someone at level 50 cp 160. The players are scaled, but that scaling is done at the player stat level and not at the enemy level. It is far far far different than enemies scaling to player levels, which is not happening.
Still the same level, still stagnant. The details don't matter much, what matters is that everything feels the same and that is BORING.
It also doesn't make the story believable.
The details absolutely matter when you make the claims you are making, namely, that it is easy for them to scale things now so it should be easy with whatever way you want to implement difficulty scaling. It's just false. When arguing for changes to the game, it helps to actually know how the game is even functioning in the first place. Credibility goes a long way. So yeah, the details matter.
The details don't matter because it's still boring no matter which way you put it. Whether I scale to mobs, they scale to me, they scale to the trees, the rocks scale to me, it doesn't matter. The end effect it has caused has made the game boring and stagnant. If tree textures could affect how the game plays and I say it's the rabbit's fault, doesn't matter. The effect itself is what I'm reacting to and the issue, whether it is the textures or the rabbit, needs to be fixed.
All the scaling does is treat all the zones as if they were level 50, which is where everyone is going to end up on an MMORPG anyway.
Why would having a lot of lower level zones that most people generally avoid make the game any more exciting or less stagnant?
Who's talking about high level players?
They can do trials and dungeons.
It doesn't exactly take long to hit level 50 on this game.
Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a level 50 character?
And besides, without scaling all the dungeons and trials in the lower level zones would be out of the question as well.
It doesn't take long to get to 50 if you grind, sure. People who care about the story don't grind.
Dungeons and trials are not overland content.
They may not be considered overland content, but that doesn't change the fact if they were not scaled then they would have remained on par with the level of the zones they are in and not suited for high level characters either.
I would also argue even if you don't grind and care about the story, it still doesn't take long to level on this game. The point is you are going to spend the vast majority of your time on this game at max level if you play it long term: unless you frequently do a lot of alts or something.
Then don't apply the changes to dungeons and trials.
Lol. Is this real?
What do you usually do at max levels in MMOs? End game content? Ok
If they didn't apply scaling to the dungeons then they would have remained at lower levels and unsuited for high level characters also. It's the same as the overland in that respect. So I'm not sure what I said that has you confused.
Anyway: it seems you only consider doing dungeons and trials as activities that should be scaled for level 50 characters. So we just have a fundamental disagreement there, because I believe level 50 characters ought to be able to enjoy questing too.
Dungeons and trials would just remain the same though. This is a talk about overland. Why would I want it to affect that content too?
Sure, level 50's can quest and shut off the OPTIONAL scaling we're asking for.
Sylvermynx wrote: »One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
I'll never understand why people believe it's so "unrealistic" to release a veteran version of the landscape zones. They literally already do this with dungeons, and have done so with landscape zones in the past (they just had some annoying rank system attached to it).
There is nothing unrealistic about it.
Uhhhh to retroactively change the whole, existing map is huge. I literally suggested they try it with new content first.
It's really not though.
All they would have to do is copy and paste the zone then make a slight alteration to the code and scale the enemies to w/e the current CP cap is instead of 160. It's not nearly as hard as you seem to think it is.
Well.... we don't know that. We don't know what the game structure and database etc. actually entail. We can suppose - but we don't know because the developers (as with most game devs) haven't given us any actual data.
One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.
I'll never understand why people believe it's so "unrealistic" to release a veteran version of the landscape zones. They literally already do this with dungeons, and have done so with landscape zones in the past (they just had some annoying rank system attached to it).
There is nothing unrealistic about it.
Uhhhh to retroactively change the whole, existing map is huge. I literally suggested they try it with new content first.
It's really not though.
All they would have to do is copy and paste the zone then make a slight alteration to the code and scale the enemies to w/e the current CP cap is instead of 160. It's not nearly as hard as you seem to think it is.
SilverBride wrote: »All they would have to do is copy and paste the zone then make a slight alteration to the code and scale the enemies to w/e the current CP cap is instead of 160. It's not nearly as hard as you seem to think it is.
"Would it be an option just to give people the choice? It is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a TON of work..." - Rich Lambert
One thing I see shooting the pro crowd in the foot is most requests are huge, sweeping changes.
Casually asking for basically a second version of the game to be released is unrealistic.
There needs to be a starting point, most likely in a new content release, where they trial having a normal and vet option.
I get this topic causes passionate feelings on either side and it causes people to dig in and get more stubborn... but take a step back, and think about what a reasonable first step looks like in getting what you want which will prove to the company this is something worth investing more in.