SimonThesis wrote: »People in my Pve guilds complain about it constantly. Not everyone has the same experiences. There are a lot of players in this game just because you haven't run into them doesn't mean they are a minority and their voices shouldn't be heard.
Scaling in that way wouldn't be optional. There will be players who have the veteran achievements and don't want more difficult opponents when in overland because that's when they want to relax, or they want to harvest resources without having to fight tough mobs, etc. If there's one message that's coming through loud and clear on the thread, it's that if ZOS does anything at all, it must be optional.SimonThesis wrote: »Smarter scaling would make sense, maybe to the difficulty of your gear/pve achievements. Does that toon have perfected arena weapons on, vet trial trifectas and vMA achievements maybe the mobs will have more health and abilities for that toon. On the flip side if that toons never completed a single vet dungeon or even done nMA maybe the mobs will have less health.
Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »I also believe be that the better content you do the better gear you acquire and as a result the easier overland becomes to you. This could have merit IMO as I keep hearing the phase to "one shot" the mobs, but honestly even my best built characters still take at least a couple shots to kill most things overland.
I, for example, only have a few monster sets as I go into the PvP zone use the golden vender there, now that I know he is there, when I see a good set I want. As of right now I only have maybe 5 helm types as I avoid most of the dungeons. Other than that I only use overland and crafted sets. Many sets such as those available only from trails and arenas I will never own, thus I am less prepared.
Seems to me to be I am caught in a loop, but I am fine with it. If I didn't do, or wasn't able to do, some content then I don't deserve the shiny new gear. The only problem I can see is that those that have this gear want there to be as much a challenge everywhere as there is in that content, and that is brutally unfair to those that just want to quests peacefully without the challenge.
I know this argument will not sway most wanting vet content world wide (non-optional), but I only hope that it may reach a few that are willing to see the other side of the story.
Off topic, but hit me up in game if you want to give the harder content a try with no pressure and I will add you to our guild. We do training trials, vet training trials, monster helm hunts, some PVP to get folks their 50 transmutes and a lot of different stuff to help ease the transition to the harder content. I know I can be annoying here, but my officers and members are freaking amazing, a really nice group of folks, super patient and everyone helps each other... or we try to best we can! We also keep a little trader in the Vivec refuge to help with selling any stuff you want to as well.
Ok, back to our normal conversation....SimonThesis wrote: »Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »The only problem I can see is that those that have this gear want there to be as much a challenge everywhere as there is in that content, and that is brutally unfair to those that just want to quests peacefully without the challenge.
We're not asking for overland to be as challenging as vet dungeons far from it. We just want to stop one-shotting everything we come across without having to take everything off and undo all of our CP.
Smarter scaling would make sense, maybe to the difficulty of your gear/pve achievements. Does that toon have perfected arena weapons on, vet trial trifectas and vMA achievements maybe the mobs will have more health and abilities for that toon. On the flip side if that toons never completed a single vet dungeon or even done nMA maybe the mobs will have less health.
A couple points, first being that is your take on the difficulty. Many posts here ask for mechanics and such other things, which does actually mean vet dungeon level mobs or close to it. As for dynamic scaling, kind of impossible to do, how can that be done, mob scales to the first person who hits it? I can see a whole lot of griefing coming from that in both directions. Run by a mob, tag it and watch it lay waste to all the newbies around.
SilverBride wrote: »SimonThesis wrote: »People in my Pve guilds complain about it constantly. Not everyone has the same experiences. There are a lot of players in this game just because you haven't run into them doesn't mean they are a minority and their voices shouldn't be heard.
I've been in several PvE guilds through the years and never heard a single player complain even once. This is my experience and what I am basing my opinion on.
SilverBride wrote: »SimonThesis wrote: »People in my Pve guilds complain about it constantly. Not everyone has the same experiences. There are a lot of players in this game just because you haven't run into them doesn't mean they are a minority and their voices shouldn't be heard.
I've been in several PvE guilds through the years and never heard a single player complain even once. This is my experience and what I am basing my opinion on.
Better question would be: do you really ask every random you encounter in game about his opinion on overland difficulty?
When I play eso I don’t sit in chat and complain how easy it is, we have forums, reddit, steam for that. What’s the point mention it in game?
SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SimonThesis wrote: »People in my Pve guilds complain about it constantly. Not everyone has the same experiences. There are a lot of players in this game just because you haven't run into them doesn't mean they are a minority and their voices shouldn't be heard.
I've been in several PvE guilds through the years and never heard a single player complain even once. This is my experience and what I am basing my opinion on.
Better question would be: do you really ask every random you encounter in game about his opinion on overland difficulty?
When I play eso I don’t sit in chat and complain how easy it is, we have forums, reddit, steam for that. What’s the point mention it in game?
I was responding to posts saying they hear players complaining about it in game all the time.
SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SimonThesis wrote: »People in my Pve guilds complain about it constantly. Not everyone has the same experiences. There are a lot of players in this game just because you haven't run into them doesn't mean they are a minority and their voices shouldn't be heard.
I've been in several PvE guilds through the years and never heard a single player complain even once. This is my experience and what I am basing my opinion on.
Better question would be: do you really ask every random you encounter in game about his opinion on overland difficulty?
When I play eso I don’t sit in chat and complain how easy it is, we have forums, reddit, steam for that. What’s the point mention it in game?
I was responding to posts saying they hear players complaining about it in game all the time.
I have never heard it discussed outside of these forums either, on Discord, guild chat, zone chat or anywhere. Not saying it isn't a valid request, just that I as well have only ever seen it right here... and I have belonged to numerous very active 500 player guilds that are entirely PVE.
Why would it be discussed in those places at all?
SimonThesis wrote: »People in my Pve guilds complain about it constantly.
Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »From a totally personal POV as I never plan on doing any of that content then it won't matter to me if those that have those achievements are having a harder time. They did after all want the challenge. I still think it should be optional as we all get older eventually and constant challenges are fun once, but grow weary sooner than you would think. Thanks for looking at it this way.
SilverBride wrote: »I don't doubt that some players who post here also post on reddit or steam. I am just saying that from my experience this is not something that is being discussed in game.
Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I have heard the same complaints from all my friends who have quit, all of which by no means min-maxers or as occupied with creating builds as I am.
That the majority of the content is unengaging at endgame is a big issue for them.
The only time I ever heard overland difficulty being discussed in game was before One Tamriel. Players were complaining and leaving because it was too much of a struggle to be fun. That is the reason I left, too.
Since I returned a couple of years ago I have not heard a single player complain that overland is too easy. Not in zone chat, not in guild chat, not in groups, not among my friends... not one single player ever, and I play every day.
Overland difficulty isn't a game issue at all... it's a forum issue.
That's probably because you're not around the folks that find it too easy. The folks you hang around are probably more tailored to the way you like to play. Soo many of my friends (real life friends and in game) have quit because it's so easy it's boring. I miss playing with them. They don't bother coming back because the game offers little in challenge. An optional harder overland would likely increase a lottt of player interest that have given up on the stories being engaging combat-wise.
They may not like the idea, but it doesn't mean they are against it in any form. If that was the case, I'm sure they would join the discussion and express their opinions.Hallothiel wrote: »Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I have heard the same complaints from all my friends who have quit, all of which by no means min-maxers or as occupied with creating builds as I am.
That the majority of the content is unengaging at endgame is a big issue for them.
The only time I ever heard overland difficulty being discussed in game was before One Tamriel. Players were complaining and leaving because it was too much of a struggle to be fun. That is the reason I left, too.
Since I returned a couple of years ago I have not heard a single player complain that overland is too easy. Not in zone chat, not in guild chat, not in groups, not among my friends... not one single player ever, and I play every day.
Overland difficulty isn't a game issue at all... it's a forum issue.
That's probably because you're not around the folks that find it too easy. The folks you hang around are probably more tailored to the way you like to play. Soo many of my friends (real life friends and in game) have quit because it's so easy it's boring. I miss playing with them. They don't bother coming back because the game offers little in challenge. An optional harder overland would likely increase a lottt of player interest that have given up on the stories being engaging combat-wise.
And just as anecdotally, I can say that the friends I hang around with in game are mainly vet trial level players and none of them likes the idea of a vet overland, as if they want challenge, they know where to find it.
They may not like the idea, but it doesn't mean they are against it in any form. If that was the case, I'm sure they would join the discussion and express their opinions.Hallothiel wrote: »Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I have heard the same complaints from all my friends who have quit, all of which by no means min-maxers or as occupied with creating builds as I am.
That the majority of the content is unengaging at endgame is a big issue for them.
The only time I ever heard overland difficulty being discussed in game was before One Tamriel. Players were complaining and leaving because it was too much of a struggle to be fun. That is the reason I left, too.
Since I returned a couple of years ago I have not heard a single player complain that overland is too easy. Not in zone chat, not in guild chat, not in groups, not among my friends... not one single player ever, and I play every day.
Overland difficulty isn't a game issue at all... it's a forum issue.
That's probably because you're not around the folks that find it too easy. The folks you hang around are probably more tailored to the way you like to play. Soo many of my friends (real life friends and in game) have quit because it's so easy it's boring. I miss playing with them. They don't bother coming back because the game offers little in challenge. An optional harder overland would likely increase a lottt of player interest that have given up on the stories being engaging combat-wise.
And just as anecdotally, I can say that the friends I hang around with in game are mainly vet trial level players and none of them likes the idea of a vet overland, as if they want challenge, they know where to find it.
And by this, they're just excluding themselves from the dialogue *shrug*Hallothiel wrote: »They may not like the idea, but it doesn't mean they are against it in any form. If that was the case, I'm sure they would join the discussion and express their opinions.Hallothiel wrote: »Seminolegirl1992 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I have heard the same complaints from all my friends who have quit, all of which by no means min-maxers or as occupied with creating builds as I am.
That the majority of the content is unengaging at endgame is a big issue for them.
The only time I ever heard overland difficulty being discussed in game was before One Tamriel. Players were complaining and leaving because it was too much of a struggle to be fun. That is the reason I left, too.
Since I returned a couple of years ago I have not heard a single player complain that overland is too easy. Not in zone chat, not in guild chat, not in groups, not among my friends... not one single player ever, and I play every day.
Overland difficulty isn't a game issue at all... it's a forum issue.
That's probably because you're not around the folks that find it too easy. The folks you hang around are probably more tailored to the way you like to play. Soo many of my friends (real life friends and in game) have quit because it's so easy it's boring. I miss playing with them. They don't bother coming back because the game offers little in challenge. An optional harder overland would likely increase a lottt of player interest that have given up on the stories being engaging combat-wise.
And just as anecdotally, I can say that the friends I hang around with in game are mainly vet trial level players and none of them likes the idea of a vet overland, as if they want challenge, they know where to find it.
Nah, the majority of them consider the forums to be the online equivalent of Mos Eisley and refuse to have anything to do with it. 🤣
Hallothiel wrote: »Still no consensus on *exactly* what is wanted.
Seems some want a personal toggle to increase difficulty - how would this work? How would this affect playing with who do not use the toggle?
Some have suggested a personal debuff, but whilst this would be the easiest to implement, it does not appear popular.
Some want a vet instance of quest end bosses - again this would be relatively simple to implement. Most support this as a good thing.
Some have suggested a separate vet zone, although this in no way would be Craglorn.2.
Some want a vet version of absolutely everything, whether it be instanced, or a separate server (lol dream on).
This would therefore be optional and mean those that wanted could have that epic & meaningful combat with whatever they want, from delves to quests to just trying to harvest mats.
But my previous comments about this still stand:
If it was so easy to implement, and the data showed it would be profitable, Zos would have done it by now. That’s the bottom line.
As has been stated by Rich, it’s apparently not so easy to do (despite what some armchair game devs here seem to think). To make a vet version of the whole overland game would take immense time & resources, and to think otherwise would be foolish. And not just a harder version (ie more health/hits harder) it would need different enemy mechs etc to ensure that content was ‘meaningfull’ & ‘engaging’ otherwise there would still be complaints.
Finally, 2 questions.
Would you be willing to pay for this?
What happens when this also gets too easy?
SilverBride wrote: »One observation I have made from reading posts here and in previous threads is that some posters aren't currently playing overland content, or the game at all.
I play every day and am subbed. I spend a lot of time in overland and am in touch with the current state of the game.
According to Rich Lambert ESO is doing better now than it ever has. That speaks volumes as to what players want.
No. But combat gameply is a major component to experience the story properly for some people, considering that this is a game. Not a book or a movie.Ravensilver wrote: »Why is everyone focused on just the fights?
Is that all that engages you in the game?
This was asked several times in other threads (not sure about this one) and several people answered.Ravensilver wrote: »Right now, I don't see anyone doing WBs in older zones. I sit around and wait for ages for someone to come along and help kill a dragon in NE. Why? Aren't these fights *exactly* what you're looking for?
Ravensilver wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »Why don't we deserve to have engaging story content as well?
I still don't understand what you mean when you say "engaging story content".
Please describe to me what this would look like.
So there you are, arriving at a new wayshrine... a quest waits for you...
... how does the story continue for you?
What makes you think so? It is not about "Give us strong enemies!", it's about setups to threats in stories. Why should I bother about any WB while it is just a strong and agressive being? I want to hear from natives, how they suffer because of it, in other case it is just random creature I'm killing because I can. Right now, there are many well-written quests, especially the old ones, if we would able to feel those threats with our skin, it would increase an immersion significantly!Ravensilver wrote: »Why is everyone focused on just the fights?
Is that all that engages you in the game?
I've seen mention of invasions. Longer questlines. More exploration. More secret locations and bosses.
I offered stuff like the entire server working together to achieve a goal - like building a city or defending one from invasion.
I'd like to see a great deal more variety (and I wouldn't even mind if the difficulty was also varied) in the overland activities.
Right now, I don't see anyone doing WBs in older zones. I sit around and wait for ages for someone to come along and help kill a dragon in NE. Why? Aren't these fights *exactly* what you're looking for?