Overland Content Feedback Thread

CP5

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Just because it isn't how you prefer the game doesn't mean it is uncalled for, and saying "Overland is for questing and telling the story" would be like me saying "Trials are for hard core combat" as an argument for removing normal trials. It doesn't make sense, and adding options increases the scope of players who would participate in the content. Also, which content are you referring to when you say "many players don't participate in that content anyway."?

Trials are there to provide a challenge for those who enjoy that. I am not sure what removing their normal mode would accomplish but there is no connection between this and overland, which is a completely different type of content.

And this still doesn't answer how the same quests and stories would be more interesting or what would keep players in veteran overland once the quests were complete.

Following the logic of making a vet instance causing damage to the number of players in a particular instance type, "we can't make a vet overland because think of all the poor users who would stay behind and be denied the help of more experienced players," we could similarly justify the removal, of lets shift to dungeons since those have a dungeon finder, that "we should remove normal dungeons, so the player base is more together." Acting as though everyone being 'together' is the most important, despite instances already subdividing them, when that singular design already drives many players away. Choices give more people the ability to engage with the content and enjoy it.

And as I said. I've not done years worth of quest. Them being "the same" doesn't matter because I haven't done them at all. And as I also said in the post between the one you quoted and yours, the games stories are often driven by conflict and combat, and knowing full well an end of the world level threat isn't worth your time saps any tension/stakes/enjoyment from the story. I don't feel like I'm helping anyone, I feel like I'm being con'ed into doing someone else's chores. And when all the world is designed to cater to new players, going somewhere dangerous like the deadlands? I'm watching some random video with only a passing glance at the game to make sure I'm still moving forward because this dangerous and imposing land isn't even worth my attention. If the world actually posed a threat, I'd actually pay attention and engage with it more.

I've mentioned it before, but in Skyrim I always play with survival mods. Needing to eat and sleep, fighting off the cold, using fast travel only to fix bugs, that sort of thing. Simply traveling from one place to another is an engaging story since the path I chose to take, how well I chose to prepare, do I take a pit stop in this vampire infested cave to warm up or do I set up camp in some nordic ruins I've never bothered exploring, it makes me pay more attention to the world and interact with it more. I remember these, I care about these, and ESO's world is so devoid of this I've stopped engaging with it beyond a bare minimum. You enjoy the game differently, and that's good, but why can't it offer an option, why are you so worried about the community yet still disregard those who are leaving because the biggest offerings ZOS has done nothing to engage them?

CP5

TaSheen wrote: »

nb_rich wrote: »

Jeez this seems to be such a big topic lol anyways I have more feedback for

Overland should be preparation for dungeons, trials and pvp, but with it being so easy it doesn’t actually prepare us.

I look back at when I first started playing eso and I only new how to use cleave lol. I pretty much used cleave to complete every zone story. When I got into my first trial I knew nothing about mechanics or rotations so I was running around trying to cleave all my enemies and was getting killed, luckily not kicked from the group lol.

The zone stories/overland needs to have stronger enemies in certain areas so we have to start learning about rotations, trying different skills and even learn some mechanics so people can smoothly get into group content.

Well, overland doesn't need to prepare me for any of that. I don't do group content, dungeons, trials, pvp - first because it's not content I have any interest in any more, and second because it would be really tacky to dump my mega ping into a group and expect them to put up with it.

But as long as the harder overland is completely optional I don't care if it arrives. My fear is that "optional" will not be how ZOS decides to enable it....

If it's an across the board ramping up of difficulty, we'll see if it's possible for me to manage it. If not, I'll drop my 3 annual subs and make my merry way back to Oblivion and Skyrim.

ZOS already offers options in every other area of the game, and knows full well that the casual player base they draw in every major expansion is probably their biggest source of revenue, as much as my trust in them has been challenged over the years it would be beyond foolish for them to force it onto everyone.

TaSheen

CP5 wrote: »

ZOS already offers options in every other area of the game, and knows full well that the casual player base they draw in every major expansion is probably their biggest source of revenue, as much as my trust in them has been challenged over the years it would be beyond foolish for them to force it onto everyone.

I can hope. But I have serious doubts after nearly 6 years here.

CP5

A fair concern, but given the spike in communication on this pts, I'm cautiously optimistic, and feel ZOS is much more likely to do nothing than compromise what's most likely their largest player group.

SilverBride

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

nb_rich wrote: »

Overland should be preparation for dungeons, trials and pvp, but with it being so easy it doesn’t actually prepare us.

Overland is for questing and telling the story. The only way to learn how to do dungeons, trials and PvP is to do dungeons, trials and PvP. There is no need to learn these things while questing. Besides the fact that many players don't participate in end game context anyway.

[Edited to clarify]

The amount of people I've had to not only carry, but explain in-depth for over an hour in basic dungeons like vCoA II is far too much. It goes to show that this is not a training place, especially when pugging.

Players not performing well in dungeons has nothing to do with overland and the story. And vCoA II isn't a basic dungeon. nCoA I is a basic dungeon. That is where these players should go first to learn about dungeon mechanics, not start at the most challenging version.

TaSheen

CP5 wrote: »

A fair concern, but given the spike in communication on this pts, I'm cautiously optimistic, and feel ZOS is much more likely to do nothing than compromise what's most likely their largest player group.

I wish I had the data to download PTS. Ah well. I'm lucky to have satellite at least, otherwise it would be dialup!

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

nb_rich wrote: »

Overland should be preparation for dungeons, trials and pvp, but with it being so easy it doesn’t actually prepare us.

Overland is for questing and telling the story. The only way to learn how to do dungeons, trials and PvP is to do dungeons, trials and PvP. There is no need to learn these things while questing. Besides the fact that many players don't participate in end game context anyway.

[Edited to clarify]

The amount of people I've had to not only carry, but explain in-depth for over an hour in basic dungeons like vCoA II is far too much. It goes to show that this is not a training place, especially when pugging.

Players not performing well in dungeons has nothing to do with overland and the story. And vCoA II isn't a basic dungeon. nCoA I is a basic dungeon. That is where these players should go first to learn about dungeon mechanics, not start at the most challenging version.

nCoA I is literally the same difficulty as overland. You cannot learn mechanics that well in Normal Mode.

Last boss CoA I does a fire dot on you. In normal mode it does barely any damage and you probably would not know it's on you, or because it's so weak you wouldn't care. In Veteran, the damage can hurt quite a bit. Normal Mode would not teach people to jump in the water to cleanse the DOT, or at least do it that well. In normal mode you just would not care, especially care to think how to cleanse it.

CP5

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

nb_rich wrote: »

Overland should be preparation for dungeons, trials and pvp, but with it being so easy it doesn’t actually prepare us.

Overland is for questing and telling the story. The only way to learn how to do dungeons, trials and PvP is to do dungeons, trials and PvP. There is no need to learn these things while questing. Besides the fact that many players don't participate in end game context anyway.

[Edited to clarify]

The amount of people I've had to not only carry, but explain in-depth for over an hour in basic dungeons like vCoA II is far too much. It goes to show that this is not a training place, especially when pugging.

Players not performing well in dungeons has nothing to do with overland and the story. And vCoA II isn't a basic dungeon. nCoA I is a basic dungeon. That is where these players should go first to learn about dungeon mechanics, not start at the most challenging version.

True, but even there very basic parts of the game are unknown to them because they simply don't need to pay attention to who they're fighting the 7 different times they've saved the world. Things like bashing enemies with red lines shooting out of their face, moving out of red aoe's, using any gear that's relevant to what they're trying to do. I'd mentioned before how someone cast volley in multiple areas back to back, resulting in the skill doing no damage until its last placement because they had never needed to pay attention to how their own skills work. Many leave ESO because the gameplay feels bad, but since overland never encourages or requires any higher level of engagement, where I feel the game's combat shines, this is very off-putting and fails to prepare people by failing to teach them the basics or how to explore what options they have available.

SilverBride

CP5 wrote: »

You enjoy the game differently, and that's good, but why can't it offer an option, why are you so worried about the community yet still disregard those who are leaving because the biggest offerings ZOS has done nothing to engage them?

I'm not disregarding anyone, which is why I fully support a debuff, and challenge banners for story bosses, and difficulty levels added for Delves and Public Dungeons. These are features I would never use myself but I support them as quality of life features for others.

But what would keep players in a veteran overland once they have completed the quests? They will be using normal overland to gather resources and farm for mats and leads and all the other multiple activities players do in overland. If there is no reason beyond questing (which won't be any different except maybe the final story bosses being more difficult which can be handled with challenge banners) then why go to all the trouble?

Also, there are not a lot of players leaving because they find overland too easy. The game has been doing fine for the past 7 year since One Tamriel was introduced and is not in a crisis over being what some consider too easy.

CP5

I don't spend every second in overland farming materials, that isn't a draw for me to go to normal, I only need to farm a lead once, that doesn't bring me to normal. What I wouldn't mind, because I enjoy the gameplay of ESO, are things like more challenging dolemns like the ones I faced in my silver/gold zones, because I actually enjoyed fighting against a relentless hoard of deadra. I would explore locations I once skipped through because stopping to fight every cardboard cutout wasn't worth the time, and at this slower pace I would be able to more easily enjoy the location. The gameplay is how you interact with the world, and with more meaningful interaction I'd be able to enjoy that more, you may not understand it but I actually enjoy that.

As for your gauges on players leaving, many in this thread have cited themselves or their friends leaving because the overland gave such a poor first impression, so there is a group that is impacted by this, and since zones are instanced, and aim to have a healthy target player count, overlands population could be cut in half, and you'd not be able to notice because, until the zone can't sustain a single instance at a healthy level, all you'd see is the instance you're in doing fine, so you can't accurately gauge things off of that alone.

SilverBride

CP5 wrote: »

As for your gauges on players leaving, many in this thread have cited themselves or their friends leaving because the overland gave such a poor first impression, so there is a group that is impacted by this...

There has only been a handful of players posting in this thread (with a rare post by someone new) for a very long time. Of those a few have mentioned that they don't play and haven't for awhile. Whether or not these players would return if there was a veteran overland is not guaranteed, especially when there is no consensus on what a veteran overland would entail.

On the other hand there are many satisfied players that do still play and subscribe and otherwise support the game as it currently is.

Damico

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

As for your gauges on players leaving, many in this thread have cited themselves or their friends leaving because the overland gave such a poor first impression, so there is a group that is impacted by this...

There has only been a handful of players posting in this thread (with a rare post by someone new) for a very long time. Of those a few have mentioned that they don't play and haven't for awhile. Whether or not these players would return if there was a veteran overland is not guaranteed, especially when there is no consensus on what a veteran overland would entail.

On the other hand there are many satisfied players that do still play and subscribe and otherwise support the game as it currently is.

I am specifically waiting for veteran overland content to make questing for the story and lore more engaging before returning to the game.

CP5

You may have said something before leaving prior to one-tamriel, you may not have, but you can't accurately count the players who came and then left dissatisfied, be them new or long time players who chose to simply leave. But player retention is an issue that ZOS is having, and leaving an issue stand that is acting as a door out of the game for many is a poor idea. You, in zone instances that are designed to maintain health populations per instance, with like-minded players, may not be noticing issues, but I've watched all my friends leave the game frustrated, an incredibly active trial guild wither and die, and my story is not unique.

Those dozens of players aren't here posting, though one I had seen a while ago in this thread, so don't think that just because the number of users here is small that so is the impact on the game, there are many who have left in silence, and I'm active here not just because I want to be able to love this game again, but because there were many others I enjoyed the game with who left, and I guess I'm greedy in wanting to enjoy those good times again, and if they had more reliable content to enjoy maybe they'd have had a better reason to stick around.

SilverBride

ESO is not having an exodus of players leaving because they think overland is too easy. Players come and go for many reasons but overland has been this way for 7 years. If it was really a problem for that many players the game would have gone under years ago.

Making overland easier is what saved this game, not the other way around.

CP5

It's one of many problems, when one of my trial groups would take a break, what content would those players have to bring them back to the game? Solo arenas, where they've been hundreds of times for gear? If they wanted to enjoy the major content of the world while raids were on break, they'd have one singular option to enjoy it through, beginner-friendly, and that isn't engaging for them. So when the raid came back from break a third of the people would come back, not having touched the game for months, because there isn't an option to make the largest piece of solo content engaging for them, realize there would be a ton of catching up to do, and they stay gone.

You don't speak for everyone, I don't either, but I speak for a group you have no bearing on by your own choice of what content you enjoy and can safely say that yes, players are leaving. ZOS leaving issues like this standing unaddressed for so long is a major issue, not just this in particular, and this mentality that 'if anything is done it comes at a cost of you' while completely disregarding those outside your social sphere isn't helping. They can add an option, and even if it's through instances, would not impact you, because even with your concerns about a split community there is no consideration shown to those leaving the game as is, so what does it matter if they're gone or if they're in the game in an instance away from you, be it overland or trials? One helps ZOS keep ESO going for the long term, the other doesn't.

SilverBride

Just because a player doesn't personally find overland engaging doesn't make it a fact. It's also not unusual for players to take breaks, and sometimes they lose interest the longer they are away.

If ESO was really losing a lot of players because they perceive overland as too easy I can guarantee they would look at making some changes like they did with One Tamriel. But it's not and Rich stated very clearly that there are a lot of players that still find overland challenging and they have no major changes planned for overland difficulty.

colossalvoids

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

As for your gauges on players leaving, many in this thread have cited themselves or their friends leaving because the overland gave such a poor first impression, so there is a group that is impacted by this...

On the other hand there are many satisfied players that do still play and subscribe and otherwise support the game as it currently is.

You don't measure satisfaction by subs or cash shop transactions. Almost everyone I'm playing with is cashing out in some way or another but exactly one person of them all is fine with overland as is. Exactly zero of them are in this thread. Questing experience is a running joke for years. There are different reasons to support this game whilst being hugely dissatisfied with other aspects of it.

SilverBride

I measure satisfaction by my experiences and what I see going on in game around me, and I see players helping each other and having fun everywhere I go.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

I measure satisfaction by my experiences and what I see going on in game around me, and I see players helping each other and having fun everywhere I go.

[snip] How do you know if they're having fun? [snip]

You can not say for certain that the people you see are enjoying themselves. You cannot possibly know that.

[edited for baiting]

colossalvoids

[snip]

You see players having fun and helping each other and I see players minding their own business. Wonder how you can see people having fun out there.

Reminded me of a guy in Vvardenfell chat last week, seeking for help with egg mine for like whole forty minutes I was parked near bank minding my stuff. He had a blast I suppose. Same as usual Summerset ones seeking for gryphon or kogren's cove for hours. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

spartaxoxo

The things we have that are objective evidence about people leaving/enjoying overland are...

1) The developer stating the vast majority of people primary enjoy the story and exploration parts of things (i.e. Overland)
2) PSN trophy data showing that vet stuff isn't used as often as normal stuff
3) Steam Charts showing many people have left the game in large amounts since last year but the population is still above pre-pandemic levels on steam platform in particular. (16.4 players Jan 2023 vs 19.7k players Jan 2022 vs 12.4k players Jan 2019)
4) A social media poll by a streamer that indicated the majority of those that responded would like to see Overland more difficult
5) Developer statements that overland being too easy is a frequent piece of feedback from vet players.

Personal experience is anecdotal evidence. It's useful for forming our personal opinions, but our personal experiences will of course vary. One person losing their whole guild to boring overland is another person's thriving guild catered almost exclusively to running around overland. It varies from person to person.

Personally, for my own personal opinion, I place the most stock into 1 and 5 because the developers are the only people with all of the data. Which is why to me, I think it's most likely that the majority of players enjoy overland just the way it is. But the majority of a certain type of vet players would prefer Overland to be more difficult. I suspect the view of Overland is divided by something like say amount of damage the player can do rather than time played because not only is the experience very different at high levels of damage versus low, but because it would explain the other 3 pieces of evidence.

I remember a community manager of another game explained that players that engage on social media tend to skew hard core and above average skill, as a general rule. So, it's important to look at play data and not just social media feedback to determine what the whole player base enjoys and what level of monetization they would accept.

I would expect that poll to have that sample bias as a result, and for the general consensus of the forums to be that overland is too easy. I also suspect that the game is still adding enough players to replace the ones that leave, as I noticed there was a few updates where the game would bleed players only for them to get a resurgence whenever they teased the new chapters. Some of that is probably due to old players returning, but I imagine a lot of new players come in at that point as well. New players are likely to push easy trophies up but not difficult ones.

Therefore, I personally believe that the majority of players enjoy Overland as it is. But, there is a big enough minority population that wants a change that the developer has felt the need to address the matter on at least 3 separate occasions. I don't think it's a small amount of players.

This is why I think that something needs to be done, but that it can't be mandatory. I think most people want it to be optional anyway.

AlexanderDeLarge

SilverBride wrote: »

The quests would still be the same. The only difference is the trash mobs would take a few more hits to defeat. And as you pointed out players will use normal overland to farm and other activities.

Also these quests can only be done once per character so once those are complete what will keep players in veteran overland?

So if veteran overland would only be used to do quests that are identical to the current normal overland quests
and can only be done once, why bother making a separate instance that won't even be used for anything else?

Quick online search

In fact, the following UESP page indicates that there are about 2350 quests, and that would include the High Isle quests. The zone map doesn't include every quest in the zone. It may show all story and side quests as complete but there are others that aren't included in these categories. - Mar 31, 2022

That's a whole lotta content to go through. Without some sort of veteran overland phasing and/or difficulty slider, I'm not doing any of it and I'm certainly not going to pay $39.99 every year to play through 20-30 hours of questing where if I sneeze on an enemy, they die instantly. There is nothing more tedious in the world than going through voiced quest dialog where the person you're talking to is building up the objective target as some super intimidating badass and then after a chain of equally boring quests, you light attack him/her/it to death.

SilverBride wrote: »

Trials are there to provide a challenge for those who enjoy that. I am not sure what removing their normal mode would accomplish but there is no connection between this and overland, which is a completely different type of content.

And this still doesn't answer how the same quests and stories would be more interesting or what would keep players in veteran overland once the quests were complete.

You're downplaying the overwhelming majority of the game's content. Why would I bother logging into the game period of the overwhelming majority of the game's content is not intended for me and I'm merely isolating myself in the instanced content that is?

At that point I'm not playing a MMORPG. I'm playing something more similar to Destiny or Warframe or Sea of Thieves or Vermintide or Deep Rock Galactic or some other instanced PvE title so why would I subject myself to a MMORPG's gameplay limitations and more importantly the monetization which includes a monthly subscription for perks that are a damn near necessity, a annual $40 expansion pack release not included in the subscription and loot boxes?

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Have we not rebutted the Cadwell's Gold and Silver argument multiple times already?

I don't agree with those rebuttals.

I play every day and I see what's actually happening in game.

Well I haven't seen a rebuttal to my many rebuttals and I doubt I ever will because frankly there isn't one. The game has simply changed too much for Cadwell Silver/Gold to be cited as an argument nearly a decade later. Six retail expansion packs and 22 DLCs. 35 game changing updates including a complete overhaul of the game's progression system and the introduction of level scaling. Not to mention dozens if not hundreds of balance passes.

Also I can log into the game too and make the same argument. An uncomfortable amount of players are capable of damn near instantly killing entire mobs and clearing delves at ridiculous speeds. I used to be one of those people doing it until I inevitably got bored to tears and stopped logging in entirely... but I can log back in and reconfirm my observations if you want. Even after the infamous nerfs, my purple trial gear from Summerset with a suboptimal, non-meta monster helm/shoulder set would certainly one-shot a standard cluster of enemies.

Elsonso

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Therefore, I personally believe that the majority of players enjoy Overland as it is. But, there is a big enough minority population that wants a change that the developer has felt the need to address the matter on at least 3 separate occasions. I don't think it's a small amount of players.

This is why I think that something needs to be done, but that it can't be mandatory. I think most people want it to be optional anyway.

I disagree that something needs to be done. The reason is that they have deliberately designed the game in this manner. It's not something arbitrary or something that has come into being over time. The upper tier of players may be grumbling, and yes that will include their favorites and streamers, but the design seems to be working.

Also... They have said more than what is listed above.

• They have said that there are players that find overland difficult.
• They have said that optional harder content could split the overland player base.
• They have expressed the opinion that players would not use the harder overland unless well rewarded.
• They have said that the game is designed for veteran content to be in dungeons, not overland.

If ZOS is interested in doing this, they are either working on it or it is something they will be considering to add to their plans. ZOS has not said they have no plans, but they also haven't changed the way they talk about it.

What this means is that ZOS may be thinking about doing something for overland difficulty, but it may not be any thing that is discussed in here as a potential solution. It could, I suppose, be discussed in here as an unacceptable solution, as ZOS is going to find their own path if they do something, and that is not guaranteed to be a player suggested path.

Ultimately, I don't think that the issue is really about how easy overland content is. I think it is fine how they designed overland so that it can be used by the entire population, as is. For some it will be easy, and for others it will be just right, and for others it will be too hard, and all those people can co-exist in the same space without ZOS needing to change anything.

The issue that I think is really driving the idea that overland is too easy is simply that player combat skill can be mastered, thus making the game easier. It isn't that overland is easy, it just stands out because the players have mastered the game. I don't know what ZOS has in mind for that, but "raising the floor" is not the answer.

AlexanderDeLarge

Also I just want to point out that once again, I've been through this before as a Lord of the Rings Online player. I was told that I was a vocal minority for years, that it was unnecessary because the playerbase skews towards 'casual' rather than 'hardcore', that it wouldn't change anything because the content would remain the same. The sentiment built up among the playerbase to the point where it couldn't be ignored any longer and landscape difficulty was finally introduced in 2021. It revitalized the whole game for me and it's currently the game I'm playing instead of The Elder Scrolls Online. Resulted in tons of media attention and brought back a lot of people who quit specifically due to a lack of difficulty in the overland content. Regarded as a huge win for the game and is one of the reasons why a nearly sixteen year old game just had it's biggest year since it launched on Steam back in 2010.
https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Landscape_Difficulty

Additionally, they released a mini expansion pack in November that contained an alternate level 1-32 experience. I bought it and enjoyed it on legendary servers with the landscape difficulty slider cranked up. It was one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had in MMORPGs in years because there was a real sense of danger and questing actually felt meaningful and rewarding. That's money I guarantee you I wouldn't have spent if not for the landscape difficulty feature.

Elsonso

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Also I just want to point out that once again, I've been through this before as a Lord of the Rings Online player. I was told that I was a vocal minority for years, that it was unnecessary because the playerbase skews towards 'casual' rather than 'hardcore', that it wouldn't change anything because the content would remain the same. The sentiment built up among the playerbase to the point where it couldn't be ignored any longer and landscape difficulty was finally introduced in 2021.

If you read what I wrote right above yours, you see that I think the problem is that the combat is easily mastered, and it is that mastery that makes overland look easier. If you read Lambert's recent interview, he talks about his goal of raising the floor. This does nothing but artificially raise more people up to the 'mastery' range, which in turn makes the game easier, which ends up making overland look easy.

If ZOS insists on making the game easier, eventually, they will come to the decision that they need to make the game harder.

Four_Fingers

Looks like there is a case for a slider to make it easier as well as difficult.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/627525/trouble-playing-solo#latest
Of course threads like that don't get a sticky.

Elsonso

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Looks like there is a case for a slider to make it easier as well as difficult.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/627525/trouble-playing-solo#latest

Definitely. That has been a part of this thread, too.

If they did a slider, I would want it to go in both directions. I would set mine firmly to the "easy" side for overland and glue it there permanently. Few things are more annoying in this game than being in overland doing something and every mob that wants a piece of me chasing after me for the next 10 miles while I go about my business. I want to be able to dispatch them with a single light attack.

Even better would be an "overland mobs ignore me" setting so they are all "yellow" and I can just run past them and they won't be training along behind me.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

A social media poll by a streamer that indicated the majority of those that responded would like to see Overland more difficult

A poll by a streamer is going to be biased, especially if they are streaming veteran end game content. Their viewers are also going to be end game players so there would be little feedback from casual players, if any.

SilverBride

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Also I just want to point out that once again, I've been through this before as a Lord of the Rings Online player. I was told that I was a vocal minority for years, that it was unnecessary because the playerbase skews towards 'casual' rather than 'hardcore', that it wouldn't change anything because the content would remain the same. The sentiment built up among the playerbase to the point where it couldn't be ignored any longer and landscape difficulty was finally introduced in 2021. It revitalized the whole game for me and it's currently the game I'm playing instead of The Elder Scrolls Online. Resulted in tons of media attention and brought back a lot of people who quit specifically due to a lack of difficulty in the overland content. Regarded as a huge win for the game and is one of the reasons why a nearly sixteen year old game just had it's biggest year since it launched on Steam back in 2010.
https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Landscape_Difficulty

Additionally, they released a mini expansion pack in November that contained an alternate level 1-32 experience. I bought it and enjoyed it on legendary servers with the landscape difficulty slider cranked up. It was one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had in MMORPGs in years because there was a real sense of danger and questing actually felt meaningful and rewarding. That's money I guarantee you I wouldn't have spent if not for the landscape difficulty feature.

I looked at the link and they did this with debuffs. Many of us are fine with debuffs here, too, but some have argued against it.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Also I just want to point out that once again, I've been through this before as a Lord of the Rings Online player. I was told that I was a vocal minority for years, that it was unnecessary because the playerbase skews towards 'casual' rather than 'hardcore', that it wouldn't change anything because the content would remain the same. The sentiment built up among the playerbase to the point where it couldn't be ignored any longer and landscape difficulty was finally introduced in 2021. It revitalized the whole game for me and it's currently the game I'm playing instead of The Elder Scrolls Online. Resulted in tons of media attention and brought back a lot of people who quit specifically due to a lack of difficulty in the overland content. Regarded as a huge win for the game and is one of the reasons why a nearly sixteen year old game just had it's biggest year since it launched on Steam back in 2010.
https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Landscape_Difficulty

Additionally, they released a mini expansion pack in November that contained an alternate level 1-32 experience. I bought it and enjoyed it on legendary servers with the landscape difficulty slider cranked up. It was one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had in MMORPGs in years because there was a real sense of danger and questing actually felt meaningful and rewarding. That's money I guarantee you I wouldn't have spent if not for the landscape difficulty feature.

I looked at the link and they did this with debuffs. Many of us are fine with debuffs here, too, but some have argued against it.

I feel as if your use of language is... odd. "Many of us are fine with debuffs" vs. "some have argued against it". The use of "Many" and "some" make it seem like you're trying to convey that more people are on your side with the term "many", than our side with the term "some". It'd be more practical if you were to use some in both cases as it'd lean towards less bias.