ZOS please remove Dark Convergence from the game

Soraka

jasonleitch1_ESO wrote: »

The main issue with Dark Convergence is the performance during heavy lag. I, too, have been pulled in way beyond the outer edges of Dark Convergence.

Even on a speed stam sorc (I am able to reach 99% max speed in combat without sprint). If Dark Convergence centers on me during heavy lag, I can steak and dodge roll way out out the area only to get pulled back into the center on stunned. This then requires a break free, another dodge roll and another streak.

The current options for consistency seem to be to either hold block and walk out of the convergence or mist form.

I second this. Performance needs to be improved more before introducing a set like this. I get pulled all over with no apparent way to avoid it because it's showing me nowhere near it, not showing it at all, or lagging me out/freezing so I'm dead before I even saw it landing. It's a toss of the dice or random chance at that point. Add in 3-4 people using it and it's game over. I can't
L2dodge/block/don't stand near people when it's appearing after I've died.
Edit: also the times I've successfully dodge rolled out I have to just run away because now I can't use any skills after dodging..

Rlacoste

[snip] Double CCs and CC immunity bug plus lag/desyncs="pray for new MMORPG soon....

Lag is bad?, ok, we will add giant hammer to worsen it for you
Lag is bad?. ok, we will add double CCs and 0 CC immunity for you
Lag is bad? ok, we will NOT EVER fix combat bug, just for you
Lag is bad? ok, more MMORPGs releasing soon, we won't miss you
Lag is bad? ok, we will turn off procs, turn them back on, shorten groups to 12 max, to no success so we will add sets that will drive you up the wall so you can cry more on forums(devs get good laugh from that).
Lag is bad? ok, ball groups are gonna run every set they can find to desync you and 12vs1 you multiple times(guild leaders feel super human that way)

Dear dev team, do you think the lag all these players talk about is a myth? You must. Scratching my head.
[snip]
[edited for bashing]

Jackey

Just remove proc sets from PvP entirely. I'm so tired of some random sets having insane impact on the game.
Re-balance them for PvE and never bring them back to PvP.
Balance PvP around stat based sets and work on improving performance without these band aid solutions.

Everyone in Cyrodiil is already out there farming these sets on PS EU, in a week PvP will be completely ruined.
This is beyond ridiculous.

Jaraal

Jackey wrote: »

Just remove proc sets from PvP entirely. I'm so tired of some random sets having insane impact on the game.
Re-balance them for PvE and never bring them back to PvP.
Balance PvP around stat based sets and work on improving performance without these band aid solutions.

Everyone in Cyrodiil is already out there farming these sets on PS EU, in a week PvP will be completely ruined.
This is beyond ridiculous.

Ahhh, but they did remove all proc sets (from Cyrodiil) for a few months. And how much did performance improve? Zero. In fact, it got worse.

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7149943/#Comment_7149943

Jackey

Jaraal wrote: »

Ahhh, but they did remove all proc sets (from Cyrodiil) for a few months. And how much did performance improve? Zero. In fact, it got worse.

I'm well aware thank you. They also re-enabled cross healing during the same test which promoted faction stacking.

Removing proc sets from PvP won't automatically fix lag, it wasn't the point of my comment. Did you reply to the wrong person?

Gilvoth

Jackey wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Ahhh, but they did remove all proc sets (from Cyrodiil) for a few months. And how much did performance improve? Zero. In fact, it got worse.

I'm well aware thank you. They also re-enabled cross healing during the same test which promoted faction stacking.

Removing proc sets from PvP won't automatically fix lag, it wasn't the point of my comment. Did you reply to the wrong person?

if you dont want proc sets in pvp then go to the non proc set server.

Jaraal

Jackey wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Ahhh, but they did remove all proc sets (from Cyrodiil) for a few months. And how much did performance improve? Zero. In fact, it got worse.

I'm well aware thank you. They also re-enabled cross healing during the same test which promoted faction stacking.

Removing proc sets from PvP won't automatically fix lag, it wasn't the point of my comment. Did you reply to the wrong person?

Removing cross healing had "no significant impact" on performance.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6989406#Comment_6989406


I guess maybe I did respond to the wrong person.

PunkAben

Don't worry dark convergence will have limited time.
I think like everything else it will be nerfed after some time.
I believe it is like many other sets, Zenimax wants us to farm and then it will be nerfed.
I think is the peak of stupidity but we need to live with this.

etchedpixels

Gilvoth wrote: »

if you dont want proc sets in pvp then go to the non proc set server.

Looking at the queue and populations on EU it seems most people already have - and PVP is now actually playable.

Dark Conv is totally busted though - even in PvE it lets you do stupid damage.

Sluggy

sMuggle wrote: »

[snip]

The issue isn't the effect itself. The issue are all of the additional effects that are completely unrelated to the intent of the set: pulling people through walls, positional issues, extreme lag making it it possible to avoid the damage at all, invisible effects.

Honestly, the set is mostly just 'slightly annoying' in Blackreach. It sucks spending between 25% and 50% of any fight just avoiding the thing. But it's very easy to counter the damage. However, in Greyhost it's a completely different story for many people. We simply can't avoid the set's effects. Latency, laggy server responsiveness, and bugs make it often impossible to do anything about it at all. Getting pulled from well outside the visual AoE, becoming perma-stunned, and being tossed around places and rubberbanding distances many multiples of the AoE's size are all commonplace when lag gets bad.

[edited to remove quote]

GoopCooper69

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

the set is working perfectly, and very easy to counter, yu have 4s to move out of it, there is a very clear visual on the ground.
this set has levelled the playing field against tower campers and ball groups. and they seem to be the only ones QQing
best thing to happen to PVP in a long time

easy to counter ONE of them, sure. But any medium-large fight in cyro has at least 50 of them on the ground at once. i am blocking out of one only to get sucked into another over and over and over.

GoopCooper69

"Pesky zerg sitting on your keep or resource flag? Send them to the void by pairing this set with some hard CC and immobilizes."
-ZOS

You know what's "pesky"? Every other person in cyro/BGs using this set which yanks me around nonstop like a magnet. Completely disrupts the ebb and flow of battle and turns any fight into a jarring, clunky mess of purple balls and aoes littered all over the ground pinballing everyone this way and that. not to mention the proc itself is broken and ignores structures. I have seen several players get yanked off of the second floor horseshoes at keeps or yanked through walls. This set does way too much. Pulls, stuns, does potential massive damage... all with just one button. I suggest either toning down the damage scaling, tweaking the pull/stun combo, and/or drastically increasing the cooldown.

The idea was to create a set to kill zergs instantly, but did the thought not occur to anyone that the mindless zergs would all just wear this set? No to mention tight, tactical ball groups all using this set as well.

it has warped pvp combat into something much different than it was before, something much more annoying. Big swing and a miss, ZOS.

Jameson18

GoopCooper69 wrote: »

Big swing and a miss, ZOS.

Quite true.

Vizirith

This was one of the topics mentioned in pts, granted we all know how much zos cares about feed back.

DrSlaughtr

"This set is the only thing stopping zergs!"

-watches a solo player get zerged down with Dark Convergence and hrothgar.-

If these sets were only used by small groups and solo bombers then sure. But they're so good at killing anyone that they're getting used by everyone. So way to go.

Oakenaxe

Don't need to remove them, but they do need a good nerf asap!! It's ridiculous.

shacklebreaker

[snip] How could they put this set in Cyrodiil. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

LarsS

Go non-proc, problem solved.

EdmondDontes

LarsS wrote: »

Go non-proc, problem solved.

Except that doesn't solve the problem. It requires people to stop playing with their guilds that are in Grey Host and give up their CP and other things.

The problem is Dark Convergence and it's proc pull are PvP breaking. That's the problem that needs solved. Changing the subject is not a constructive thing to do.

neferpitou73

Rlacoste wrote: »

[snip] Double CCs and CC immunity bug plus lag/desyncs="pray for new MMORPG soon....

Lag is bad?, ok, we will add giant hammer to worsen it for you
Lag is bad?. ok, we will add double CCs and 0 CC immunity for you
Lag is bad? ok, we will NOT EVER fix combat bug, just for you
Lag is bad? ok, more MMORPGs releasing soon, we won't miss you
Lag is bad? ok, we will turn off procs, turn them back on, shorten groups to 12 max, to no success so we will add sets that will drive you up the wall so you can cry more on forums(devs get good laugh from that).
Lag is bad? ok, ball groups are gonna run every set they can find to desync you and 12vs1 you multiple times(guild leaders feel super human that way)

Dear dev team, do you think the lag all these players talk about is a myth? You must. Scratching my head.
[snip]
[edited for bashing]

Hey, let's be fair to them: The sets aren't driving us up walls; they're pulling us off walls.

styroporiane

Kick this set out of the game. It's trash.

ResidentContrarian

No one should make the argument that the sets stop zergs, because we all know they don't. No one even needs to pretend they do. A decent healer and one guy running barrier can withstand a few instance of the set in a ball group, unless desynced by the set or the set explodes more than once -- in other words, the sets are useless where it was supposed to work.

Even if it were true that the sets stopped zergs, the power would still be better in the hands of siege IMO. Everyone has access to siege, big or small, lvl 10 or 50, CP or no CP, solo or group, and everyone can avoid siege or deal with it in more ways than one.

Player sets being stack upon each other by a mass amount of players? Only players that heal, block and/or roll a lot can really handle them, and since ZOS keeps nerfing stats, those players become less and less prevalent in the PvP landscape.

This means that as a response, more and more players become tanks. Happens every proc meta.

Then when most players are tanks because that's the only way to play, the effect of population numbers start to matter even more than they did before.

Except, with dark convergence, you tank, do damage, and have a chance to bug opponents out and win the objective instantly. The more instances of the set stacked, the higher the probability of this happening, meaning entire faction stacks are slotting the set and "winning" through a bug and a single set.

This does nothing but reduce PvP to set v. set, which would be fine if power was equalized between races, classes, sets, and alliances, but that is not the case and it is shown quite clearly if you have to defend a keep solo vs. 50 people wearing this set (no joke I have done it. died, but still took out some people that sent some nice comments telling me how much I suck ).

What is strange is that many stat sets got nerfed over the years because ZOS didn't like everyone wearing them and used "data" to balance them. If that is the case, why exactly is this set any different? Why is it special and getting a free pass? It's even buggy and known to be buggy and continues to get a free pass...?

Is someone doubling down instead of admitting they made a bad decision? If so, reality won't change just because they are adverse to it; reality will worsen instead.

To be fair, I also blame the community too with this set, the idea that people should do whatever it takes to win is so toxic and prevalent in PvP that people even knowingly use bugs and otherwise cheat in the game just to go "hahaha I win and I am above you" to others that don't know that they are. These same players disappear once the bugs get patched and they don't come back until it either returns or a new bug is found.

Winning is important, but it's not everything. Sometimes a defeat can be better than a victory, yet the community hasn't learned this and instead drools over manufactured YT footage made with terrible music.

It's so, so, incredibly sad, and I am not surprised the PvP community is declining in the game. It will continue to do so until either the players or dev team take proper action to prevent its decline.

Players ultimately have the choice to slot broken, buggy and/or op gear and I choose not to slot it every time.

If you're in a ball group wearing this set, in a faction stack with other ball groups wearing this set, with 50+ people taking a keep from 4-5 people. Tell me, exactly how do you find that fun and where is the PvP?

Edit: Also earlier, I was just being the ResidentContrarian...

LonePirate

Working as designed I am sure. @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Finn Care to explain this one?

Jaraal

LonePirate wrote: »

Working as designed I am sure.

Funny that the first tip ZOS gives you is "Increasing spell resistance will reduce damage taken from magical attacks."

Looks like they are trying to create more victims for Hrothgar's Chill.

Well played, ZOS.... well played.

MEBengalsFan2001

Jackey wrote: »

Just remove proc sets from PvP entirely. I'm so tired of some random sets having insane impact on the game.
Re-balance them for PvE and never bring them back to PvP.
Balance PvP around stat based sets and work on improving performance without these band aid solutions.

Everyone in Cyrodiil is already out there farming these sets on PS EU, in a week PvP will be completely ruined.
This is beyond ridiculous.

Create PVP only gear and PVE only gear and enforce it. Unfortunately, DC is gear from playing PVP.

Jackey

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Jackey wrote: »

Just remove proc sets from PvP entirely. I'm so tired of some random sets having insane impact on the game.
Re-balance them for PvE and never bring them back to PvP.
Balance PvP around stat based sets and work on improving performance without these band aid solutions.

Everyone in Cyrodiil is already out there farming these sets on PS EU, in a week PvP will be completely ruined.
This is beyond ridiculous.

Create PVP only gear and PVE only gear and enforce it. Unfortunately, DC is gear from playing PVP.

I was a bit... Emotional, when I wrote that. It's a harsh comment
I believe PvP would become better if it were to be balanced around no-proc. That way proc sets would be PvE only. But I don't see the point of having PvP only gear.

As for now, I'd be glad if they removed Dark Convergence. It's a joke in Cyrodiil and even worse in BGs.

UrbWzrd

I was in the locked threat, so I will just write my thing here. One dude there said DC set was not that effective he expected it would, because he said he is hardly a pvp player and being killed with other means more often. So, if you are like this guy, which I am, your opinion doesn't count. You just pvp for may be a few AP skill points you may grind, a few sets you may use in pve, or you just lost your way while looking to for golden vendor. So please don't comment as a pve player.

so why the hell I write here as a pve player? Because I don't get the point of punishing organized pvp groups (call them zerg, ball, whatever), for a random pve guy like me? What you will achieve if you destroy these guys? You expect pve'ers will keep the pvp areas alive? It has been months I didn't check BGs and last night I saw flags, balls and other useless relic thing removed and only deathmatch remained. that is perfect. because i can only do good in those useless modes, not in DM and those useless modes are not pvp, and i can pull to be first with my 0 kill, 19 death against the dude with 30 kills and 0 death. that is not fair, that is not pvp. that guy should be the first.

so, why I bother to write? because not only in pvp, for all the game that is the approach! Punish the talented, dedicated, invested, for the sake of noobs, casuals and untalented ones! New CP was capped first to 2100 and I said yess, when I was only cp900. Then they nerfed it to 1500, why? because the gap was too big between talented, dedicated, invested and noob, casual, untalented! that is the only game punishing you for being good! That is crazy, and it hurts in pve. You feel like why the hell I play this game where whenever you raise your head they hit a hammer to your skull?

So leave alone zergs and ball groups. They are the owners of pvp. If you don't like it, don't dare to enter pvp areas.

DrSlaughtr

Dark Convergence was a gift wrapped present to necros who could already bomb entire groups. Colossus to graveyard to synergy with DC is absolute cheese.

I know of an 8 man necro group. All of them wear it. They'll drop graveyards all around you to prevent your escape. Even just one dude.

It's OP for everyone but like other sets in the past it seems tailored made for necros to rule every battle and has nothing to do with zerg busting.

I'm okay with the pull. But either the snare or the damage need to go. If you're yanking people in and snaring them, you have ample opportunity to drop an ultimate or other hard hitting skill on them.

alexoop

FYI, a thread in PTS has been closed and players are being redirected to THIS post as the official thread where DC feedback is being gathered. So my opinion: Dark Convergence is game breaking and should be removed from the game entirely. [snip] Absolute worst thing I’ve ever seen in this game. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Jameson18

alexoop wrote: »

FYI, a thread in PTS has been closed and players are being redirected to THIS post as the official thread where DC feedback is being gathered. So my opinion: Dark Convergence is game breaking and should be removed from the game entirely. [snip] Absolute worst thing I’ve ever seen in this game. [snip]

Agreed.

I won't say more. [snip]
[edited for discussing moderator action & to remove quote]