New Champion System and Skill Line reworks: How do you feel?

Neiska

No! I hate the rework!

It feels inferior in every way. What once I got for free now I have to earn or spend points into, what is offered wasn't as good as before, or is absent entirely. I feel they went overboard with the changes. Honestly? It's as if different teams were working on different parts of it and weren't communicating with one another to see the overall effect when combined with things like the armor effects and some of the skill changes.

averyfarmanb14_ESO

Yes! I Like the rework!

So far, so good - I'm excited to see how this all falls out, and to see the balancing that'll come down the pike as a result. But, the system appears to be more workable for the game in the long term, so I'm happy to go with it.

merevie

Mitigation isn't right yet.

Tannus15

Yes! I Like the rework!

CP changes are fantastic. I've always hated how bland and uninspired the old system was. Literally just a bunch of % buffs, with a terrible interface that didn't make it clear that 17.2% is the same as 17.5%.

The new system returns vertical progression to the game, allowing long time players have some small feeling of improvement for exp. Overall power has been removed from CP and moved to base stats, which is also a good thing.

The armour passives changes I'm less thrilled about, but also don't really care. It'll all work out in the wash, give it a month for the meta to settle and no one will care about the changes and it'll just be the new reality.
In theory it's nice that they have "unlocked" the need for 5 pieces of the same armour weight for the major bonuses, but in reality we're using sets that drop in certain weights so we're all going to be running 5pc light/med/heavy based off the sets anyway, so whatever.

The crit nerfs really suck quite a bit. I'm not a fan of overhauling the CP system AND nerfing the hell out of crit. It's going to create a lot of noise in the data.

Feindrah

No! I hate the rework!

I'm honestly quite upset with the rework. I understand the idea they were going for and I think it would have been a cool rework, I just didn't like the choices they made. I knew all of this from the PTS but when it hit live I sank a little.

The green/craft tree is the biggest miss for me. What it takes to get master gatherer and other passives back plus it having to be slotted sucks. I have to take paths that I don't really want. I thought they said this rework would give us more diversity, but I don't feel that with being forced to take certain routes. I feel like QOL just went down.

With the blue tree it's less taking paths I don't want and more of just the damage nerfs.

Overall with the CP rework, i'm most upset about our CP being the same when we are getting such a huge max CP boost. I know that we will get a small boost in gaining CP, but it does stop at a certain point. I'm not a fan of now having to grind to get back to where I was originally at. I've been playing for 5 years and was only at 600 some CP so I feel like it's going to take me a long time knowing the new numbers. That's just personally something I don't want to grind for.

As for the skill lines changes, i'm kinda meh/ok with them. I'm honestly not a fan of the armor changes, especially since some sets only come in light/med/heavy, but it's not the worst change of this patch so it gets a "meh" from me.

I'm used to changes I don't like and have continued to play despite not liking things *vMA/False gods* but this rework is the first time i've really thought that maybe my time with the game it done if i'm really not liking the route it's going. I can only hope that the new system will be looked at some more now that it's gone live. I think that the system could be great it just really needs more work in my opinion.

MasterSpatula

Can't vote in good faith yet because I haven't gone into combat yet, so can't state with certainty about the armor passives.

I can say that I cannot for the life of me grasp why anyone would even consider weakening the weakest class of armor against the types of weapons it's already excessively weak against, but actual experience will tell.

As for the CP system, I just keep looking at it and failing to commit to anything. They've managed to take my very least favorite aspect of ESO, the micrmanage-y piddly nonsense that ruins your character if you get it wrong, and make it an even bigger part of the game. On top of that, all the QOL passives that now have to be actively managed managed, taking the QOL out of the QOL.

I mean, "Master Gatherer" is a slottable now? Seriously? Once again, I can't grasp why anyone would do this. It just seems... mean.

Almakor

No! I hate the rework!

What made the old champion system great was how versatile it made your character. Sure it couldn't make your character an instant healer/dps/tank swap that could bring home the bacon in veteran dungeons and trials. But it could help you create a character who would excel in ONE role in veteran content while having a DECENT role swap in instances such as world bosses and several normal dungeons. This was the case with my healer when I would swap to dps sets for open world content for story quests, world bosses, delves, etc. But after the update I noticed my healer did significantly less damage to world bosses regardless of the sets he wore. It also boosted your capabilities in thieving and assassinating npcs, so regardless of build/specialization it would increase you capabilities when doing Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood activities in or out of their respective dailies. But the new champion bar, allowing only four perks per constellation, completely destroys this.

Xargas13

Yes! I Like the rework!

It looks interesting, I like it, the green tree with gold mechanics is nice, something new. But then again I don't care much for CP as I am a BG and overland player, I don't do trials or cyrodiil, normal dungeons maybe, but they are easy. So I like it, but I don't care much for it too.

skulltape

No! I hate the rework!

My DPS has dropped so badly that I can no longer take on the same content. I won't put my money behind a game where the developers don't understand the concept of hash tables. "Oh there are too many lookups." Learn how to code. I quit.

Bradyfjord

For me, I'm still processing it. I can't give an answer yet.

spinality

No! I hate the rework!

This may very well drive me off the game. I've been here since beta. I need to go through and re-spec every toon. I don't remember exactly how I had them all set up, and of course it's all slightly different now anyway. All those decisions that I've made over and over through the years, I have to re-make them again. But there's a lot less payoff for it now. It was fun while leveling up a new character. It's just not interesting enough with my mature characters. The game had already become kind of borderline. I guess I'll create a new toon and level it up, and in the process decide again how to allocate skill points. I have worked through the CP assignment on a couple of existing characters and I guess I'll manage, though it's a lot of work for zero payoff as far as I can see. This is like Microsoft deciding I needed a new UI for all my Office apps. I already knew how everything worked. I knew how to work around the problems and inconveniences. Now I need a whole new self-training process to use Excel and Word, which I've been using since the year dot. It's the same here. Oh well. I guess I just sound like a cranky old guy. But I really don't see much upside here. I get a free fawn pet, like everybody else. If at least we'd got some extra top-end points and benefits for our 810 characters. Oh well.

Kurat

skulltape wrote: »

My DPS has dropped so badly that I can no longer take on the same content. I won't put my money behind a game where the developers don't understand the concept of hash tables. "Oh there are too many lookups." Learn how to code. I quit.

Can I have your stuff?

TwinLamps

Cp rework feels like we needed 5 slots per tree. I miss several important passives compared to before.
About skill rework, few are nice, such is now passive major gallop, and some I dont like, especially the new FG ultigain require us to slot some of F tier skills on our bars for 3x nerfed ultimate gain anyways. That one should at least be 6 ulti per undead/daedra and 3 for other kills to make FG justified. Now I see no value in all these eons spent grinding the FG on my 60± chars

Ryuvain

Yes! I Like the rework!

Cp rework is way better imo. Skill rework I can't decide yet as it just came out. I do like less restrictions on 5 pieces. Light armor didn't need martial weakness imo.

Raltin

Meh, I don't care

Ryuvain wrote: »

Cp rework is way better imo. Skill rework I can't decide yet as it just came out. I do like less restrictions on 5 pieces. Light armor didn't need martial weakness imo.

If damage shields weren't a thing for magicka classes, I'd argue that they should have made the resistances of medium and light armor essentially the same, with light a little better in defending against magic, and medium a little better in defending against physical damage... and of course, retaining the damage bonuses that both provide to their respective physical and magical lines...

Heavy armor should have remained the ultimate defense against both, for both pvp and pve activities, with no damage bonuses... making it for pure tanking purposes.

Roztlin45

No! I hate the rework!

I don't even like the way it looks! Basically 3 constellation in the eso universe? Talk about bland and un interesting. Garbage points to add so you can get more garbage points. Maybe it would help.if.The devs that come up.with these train wreck ideas actually loved and played the game.

RaddlemanNumber7

Meh, I don't care

It is what it is. I found a cookie-cutter layout that works for all my toons. That's it. They'll stay like that. No micromanagement for me.

Lysette

Yes! I Like the rework!

I like it, given that I can't judge the CP system yet, because I have no characters in that rank. I judge the rest of the changes just based on RPG elements and especially the armor changes are pretty immersive (but still a bit weird with medium getting all the stealth instead of light armor). Racial passives do still need some more work, but it is a step into the right direction. with 16 characters in the less level 50 area of various races and classes I can overall say, that the changes feel really good across the board of races and classes - it's mostly a massive buff for less level 50 characters and helps with hybrid builds, which means the "play as you want" aspect of ESO has improved a whole lot.

Pink_Pixie

I feel it could of been good, but they didn't actually play the game at all and used a dart board to think up ideas. The trees are mostly a mess, and it's all a gated system with a artificial grind.

The green tree.

No idea where to begin here, other than it's a micromanagement nightmare, most of the slot skills should of been a passive. And why on earth is run faster in the green tree? I'm pretty sure that has to do with fitness. In fact, it would be easier to just dump the whole slotting idea of the green tree and make most of it passives, and change the four green slots to universal ones.

The blue tree.

Just a tree that seems intent on making players shoehorn themselves into damage, healer, tank. No real choice, just carbon copy builds that have no identity other than race, outfit and class. And the fact more stamina and magic is in the warfare tree makes no thematic sense, as they would be considered fitness as stamina is of course fitness, magic I'd say magical aptitude (Fitness).

The red tree

Pretty much nothing in this tree is even interesting to most builds, as there are only a few that are worth slotting. More resources on kill, is a good one. Nothing in the tree for damage mitigation, and a mix and mash of pointless stars that have nothing to do for fitness. Where is the tenacity passive? Why is run faster in this tree and the green tree? Why on earth is the only recover stars relevant to magic and health only, other than the more stamina on kill and the only sustain star?

If this took two years to make, I wonder what on earth they were really doing. I get the feeling that the people doing it, did a rush job two weeks before dead line and said this is it!

In short, I like the idea yet there is no diversity. I had visions of a well thought out system, but I think we got a shoddy piece of work disguised as something good. Gating wasn't needed, endless grinding should not be required, the slotting part is just tedious and really offers no identity.

Connect a dot 2.0 is moving in the wrong direction from "Play as you want" which is what ESO is coined as.

Vlad9425

Meh, I don't care

I’ve stopped caring tbh. This game has been going downhill for a while now and they’ve still failed to fix the performance issues in Cyrodiil so any changes nowadays just make me go meh

Raltin

Meh, I don't care

@Roztlin45 wrote: »

I don't even like the way it looks! Basically 3 constellation in the eso universe? Talk about bland and un interesting. Garbage points to add so you can get more garbage points. Maybe it would help.if.The devs that come up.with these train wreck ideas actually loved and played the game.

yep, that's what I hate about the new system... so f'ing bland compared to the original. They could have at least separated into the minor constellations once you clicked on the corresponding guardian...

And the fact that you are forced to upgrade and invest points into the always-active passives before you unlock the paths to the equippable slot ones. The old system let you put points into anything you damn well pleased at any time, letting you decide what was worth your while instead of forcing you to drain your points for you to get to perks that are actually good.

It just feels... cheap, lazy... skyrim level tree 2.0 , given the fallout 4 'simplification' treatment.

Raltin

Meh, I don't care

@Pink_Pixie wrote: »

I feel it could of been good, but they didn't actually play the game at all and used a dart board to think up ideas. The trees are mostly a mess, and it's all a gated system with a artificial grind.

The green tree.

No idea where to begin here, other than it's a micromanagement nightmare, most of the slot skills should of been a passive. And why on earth is run faster in the green tree? I'm pretty sure that has to do with fitness. In fact, it would be easier to just dump the whole slotting idea of the green tree and make most of it passives, and change the four green slots to universal ones.

The blue tree.

Just a tree that seems intent on making players shoehorn themselves into damage, healer, tank. No real choice, just carbon copy builds that have no identity other than race, outfit and class. And the fact more stamina and magic is in the warfare tree makes no thematic sense, as they would be considered fitness as stamina is of course fitness, magic I'd say magical aptitude (Fitness).

The red tree

Pretty much nothing in this tree is even interesting to most builds, as there are only a few that are worth slotting. More resources on kill, is a good one. Nothing in the tree for damage mitigation, and a mix and mash of pointless stars that have nothing to do for fitness. Where is the tenacity passive? Why is run faster in this tree and the green tree? Why on earth is the only recover stars relevant to magic and health only, other than the more stamina on kill and the only sustain star?

If this took two years to make, I wonder what on earth they were really doing. I get the feeling that the people doing it, did a rush job two weeks before dead line and said this is it!

In short, I like the idea yet there is no diversity. I had visions of a well thought out system, but I think we got a shoddy piece of work disguised as something good. Gating wasn't needed, endless grinding should not be required, the slotting part is just tedious and really offers no identity.

Connect a dot 2.0 is moving in the wrong direction from "Play as you want" which is what ESO is coined as.

Out of all of them, the mage tree is the most absolute MESS possible... again, once you clicked on the corresponding guardian, they REALLY should have kept the minor constellations... at least then they could have more adequately separated the healer, dps, and tank qualities, instead of shoehorn jamming it into one confusing cluster that is annoying to navigate. The fact that the mage tree, unlike the other two, has TWO hidden perk trees that you have to CLICK on to reveal the mini-tree and put points into just... ugh, massively proves that point.

Gythral

No! I hate the rework!

nerfed & forced into timewasting!

peacenote

DigiAngel wrote: »

Yep...rework stinks...will play my just purchased Morrowind content, and then I'm out....way too much aggravation for a freaking video game. Won't be spending money anymore on this.

I am not sure enough yet to vote but I 100% agree with you about the aggravation part. Even if it ends up being awesome with so much change and so many characters this is legitimately adding stress to my HOBBY. Too much to fix / change to get everything in a usable state.

Almakor

No! I hate the rework!

If they got rid of the 4 limit per constellations bar and let players use perks freely like before I'd have a better opinion. Also I've said this after the werewolf bug.

[Edit to remove bashing]

rumple9

No! I hate the rework!

Crowd control perks don't even work

Agenericname

Meh, I don't care

Now that Ive had a few days to play around with it I feel like I can give a slightly more informed opinion. There wasnt a choice for "like some, dislikes some" so "meh" was the closest.

I tend to create characters around a concept and not a specific role. Roles are what you do in group content. For example, my Warden tanks in group content, but in overland or PvP they're utilizing different gear and skills.

The green tree I like. We have more choices and freedom now. Where I was more invested into block, dodge, recovery, bash, etc, I can swap without cost to fish, sneaky stuff, craft, etc. So my characters have a little more freedom to pursue other things. That part I like, but the way it's done feels clunky.

The red and blue trees, Im kinda "meh" about. Its hard to put a finger on it, but they just dont feel exciting to me. Maybe they will after I get some more CP.

The changes, or more specifically penalties, to armor are probably my biggest complaint. I can still do the content, so theres no barrier there that wasnt already there. I can feel the differences. Sustain is worse for tanks, but for me personally the changes feel rather small.

Having more mitigation when blocking vs higher block costs makes the use of block more strategic. Alone thats okay, Id say that I even like it. When you compound that with higher magic damage taken and increased roll dodge cost it can get quite taxing without the CP and gear to help.

It seems like thats one area where the CP, availabity of gear, and increase in difficulty between normal and vet group content do not scale well.

Overall I'm not all that fussed about it. Some good, some not so good. Im not excited about it either though.

deleted221106-002999

No! I hate the rework!

Green tree micromanagement horror. The inability to move smoothly between different game styles in an open and free manner as before (fishing, dark brotherhood, thieves guild, harvesting...) is useless.

The gui is terribly designed, unclear and difficult to see. The ones in the blue tree that are within a sub-layer are the worst - there's little if any cue that anything exists there until random clicking revealed it.

The imposition of a 30s cooldown when none existed as a knee-jerk 'save the servers' reaction would be a joke if it wasn't so annoying. Even if a 'save the server' cooldown was or is needed (and given general zero perfomance improvement observed I'd doubt that) it should have been in terms of human response times and not based on an add-on. When this comes to console will this cool-down be applied there too? If so, what excuse will be given there since there isn't an add-on to blame?

It's just a mess to hide another mess: the badly designed check-everything code that it seems they never bothered to fix preferring a white-wash (or green-wash) and marketing to sell it as some sort of choice enabler.

haelgaan

No! I hate the rework!

I was happy to hear CP was being reworked, but rather detest the idea of slottable CPs. Point are always so rare, why would I spend points in Blue/Red and not have them applicable?

Green, totally frustrated with having to fiddle depending on whether I'm crafting or harvesting or adventuring - this is a waste of my time, for a tree that's supposed to be gravy. God forbid i should want to do crafting, adventuring, maybe even the DB and TG quests on the same toon..

These CP design changes seem to have crapped all over multi-role builds - my tank was able to do decent solo stamina DPS, my healer ditto for magDPS - but now looking at Red/Blue trees I'm worried I'll need to pay to respec every time I flip roles, to be halfway decent in that role.

Minor gripe, Red tooltips are particularly annoying, referencing terms that don't appear anywhere in the skill descriptions I have. I had to google to see what they mean by status effects (and they're not what I would have guessed), but still haven't found out what they mean by CC immunity... and having played this game for a couple of years, I'm feeling phenomenally stupid saying that.

Now excuse me, I'm going to go yell at some clouds. Might be as effective as hoping that ZOS will improve this.

majulook

No! I hate the rework!

1. Do not like the new mini-game of changing out the slotted Green (crafting) Stars as I play the game so I can get the benefit of having the CP's I placed in them.

2. the Constellation trees are difficult to follow.

3 If you have any non-allocated CP's and you go to swap a star, you have a high probability of removing a point which causes the removal of a great many of the allotted points in Stars. So you have to reset them all. Maybe this is just going to be during the 2 week free respect, but it is a horrible design flaw.