Procless Cyrodiil, are you in favor or against? -

amir412

[snip]

Now that we know that Zeni plan to keep this test until chapter release, and probably permanent please vote if this is the solution we want.
Do we really want a Cyrodiil without diversity?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler The decisions you made related to continue this test until chapter release is based on false data. People didn't knew what is at stake.
Please take a look at these polls (Answered after your announcement, but locked for some reason) :
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/562062/add-a-no-proc-set-campaign-to-cyrodiil/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7151350#Comment_7151350
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7150357#Comment_7150357

From these latest polls it's not hard to understand that you should add only 1 campaign with no procs and everyone will be happy. You can even make it better and during this time, actually test which campaign will be the most popular.

Dropping such bomb on Friday, when the patch is on Monday - is this supposed to be communication we got promised?
Why are we getting forced to play this mode? We as CP pvpers have no real other options to PVP at beside Cyrodiil, and unactive IC. Which kinda makes the whole new CP system pointless.

[Edited to remove Discussing Disciplinary Actions]

Katheriah

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

Don't force this on us, just make a new campaign.

Ascarl

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

I assume the whole change is to bridge the timespan to Q3 when the new cody Gina has mentioned is ready.

driosketch

Is the no proc campaign going to be Locked CP? You might need at least two.

merevie

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

Thanks for making this.

J18696

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

would rather play in the same cyro we have been for the past 4 years or so than the laggy mess the no proc has resulted in

Jaraal

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

I would prefer splitting the campaigns into proc and no proc, but they stated in the announcement that they won't have the code in place to do that until Q3 at the earliest. So, we are essentially forced to choose between one or the other at this time. And I'm not at all in favor of them deleting all the hard work we put into grinding, golding, and theorycrafting hundreds of sets we've been using for years on a whim.

They said the test was going to be about performance. Turns out we were mislead (again), as it was yet another behavioral modification exercise instead. Hopefully they will listen to reason, as they did when they reverted the healing change. But I'm not optimistic.

These yo-yo changes need to stop! Imagine how much this game would thrive without the chronic alienation of the player base that results from these extreme, sweeping changes they seem to be so fond of. It's never subtle modifications.... always massive shifts of direction.

It's really getting old at this point.

amir412

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

Jaraal wrote: »

I would prefer splitting the campaigns into proc and no proc, but they stated in the announcement that they won't have the code in place to do that until Q3 at the earliest. So, we are essentially forced to choose between one or the other at this time. And I'm not at all in favor of them deleting all the hard work we put into grinding, golding, and theorycrafting hundreds of sets we've been using for years on a whim.

They said the test was going to be about performance. Turns out we were mislead (again), as it was yet another behavioral modification exercise instead. Hopefully they will listen to reason, as they did when they reverted the healing change. But I'm not optimistic.

These yo-yo changes need to stop! Imagine how much this game would thrive without the chronic alienation of the player base that results from these extreme, sweeping changes they seem to be so fond of. It's never subtle modifications.... always massive shifts of direction.

It's really getting old at this point.

I'm just amazed by how a drastic change like this was decided on instant, and also the fact that CP players has literally nowhere to use their hard earned gear.
If due to code limitation we need to choose either 1 option, then I'll stick to the proc Cyrodiil.

Jayserix

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

I hope this stays opened for more than a dozen hours so people from all timezones can see it and vote.

amir412

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

Honestly someone at Zos needs to raise the glove and say "Ok guys, Cyrodiil is not working and never will", shut it down, analyse what the server can actually handle population wise, and provide us a new, functional working PVP area.

There is no point for the map to be that big (it used to, but max pop was reduced significantly.), most of the time these days I just spend the times riding my horse. I honestly only login to Cyrodiil because I have no other options. It's absurd.

relentless_turnip

Happy for procs to stay out of cyrodill, but would like a return of conditional sets such as briarheart, seventh, nma, clever etc... They should buff free damage and healing and keep it in PVE land👍

Soul_Demon

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

I paid for content, I prefer to use the content that I already paid for...namely the sets.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

The revert proc is still losing as it should. Folks are acting hysterically to a temporary change. We are being given a gift... A GIFT, and you spit on it. That gift is a reprieve from many terrible choices zos made in items set introduction and mechanics. And once this present becomes past zos will have made the code to allow us to have more choices in our pvp experience. Yes you have back your full cheese mode eventually... but I wonder how many people will actually be there, and thats what truly scares you.

silvereyes

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

The current definition of what constitutes a proc is too narrow for disabling all proc bonuses. Too many non damage proc sets are thrown out, including many that are specific to PvP, or the sole reason for purchasing a DLC. There need to be more design changes, testing and feedback before making these sorts of changes on live.

silvereyes

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

The revert proc is still losing as it should.

Is it, though? Zos has stated that their campaign rule sets aren’t currently flexible with regards to proc vs no proc, so the “1 no proc campaign” option isn’t really an option until September at the earliest, when Update 31 arrives. How many people who chose the separate campaign option in the poll would be in the revert proc camp, if they were forced to choose, I wonder?

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

silvereyes wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

The revert proc is still losing as it should.

Is it, though? Zos has stated that their campaign rule sets aren’t currently flexible with regards to proc vs no proc, so the “1 no proc campaign” option isn’t really an option until September at the earliest, when Update 31 arrives. How many people who chose the separate campaign option in the poll would be in the revert proc camp, if they were forced to choose, I wonder?

It was losing when I wrote that and it should lose. Let's not assume the third option automatically implies they side with your opinion and I shall assume the same.

You still don't get IT. ZOS realized over the last three weeks that they made mistakes in pvp mechanics that they can not fix yet... that doesn't mean you allow the mistakes to continue unabated once your realize they exist. And this is the fix, that's all this is and moving forward to the promise of future changes in pvp. Your sides opinion must lose because it holds on to the mistakes that zos realizes they made, its inherently a selfish motivation that denies future progress.

silvereyes

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

The revert proc is still losing as it should.

Is it, though? Zos has stated that their campaign rule sets aren’t currently flexible with regards to proc vs no proc, so the “1 no proc campaign” option isn’t really an option until September at the earliest, when Update 31 arrives. How many people who chose the separate campaign option in the poll would be in the revert proc camp, if they were forced to choose, I wonder?

It was losing when I wrote that and it should lose, let's not assume the third option automatically implies they side with your opinion and I shall assume the same. You still don't get IT. ZOS realized over the last three weeks that they made mistakes in pvp mechanics that they can not fix yet... that doesn't mean you allow the mistakes to continue unabated once your realize they exist. And this is the fix, that's all this is and moving forward to the promise of future changes in pvp. Your sides opinion must lost because it holds on to the mistakes that zos realizes they made, its inherently a selfish motivation.

For someone who bids others to not make assumptions, you sure do assume a lot about me. I make no value claims about whether no proc campaigns are a good end goal or not.

My stance is about what to do right now, when the choices are “blow up the status quo without warning” or “wait until update 31”. Ask me again in September once zos has actually invested thought and coding into fixing their mistakes, and I may have a different opinion on what they have done then.

What they have done here in their sudden, capricious decision to beta test gameplay changes for 6 months on a production service isn’t a fix. It’s an impatient rush to an end goal that they haven’t put the work in to support with class balance and set redesign changes.

Jaraal

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

silvereyes wrote: »

My stance is about what to do right now, when the choices are “blow up the status quo without warning” or “wait until update 31”. Ask me again in September once zos has actually invested thought and coding into fixing their mistakes, and I may have a different opinion on what they have done then.

Not to mention there have been plenty of instances where they reveal these future plans, and they are actually implemented much later than advertised, if at all (like the two person mounts, or fixing Cyrodiil performance.)

Just because they say they are aiming for a Q3 solution is not even remotely a guarantee that it will be in place by then. We could literally be stuck without the ability to use gear we already bought and paid for for years.

Master_Kas

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

Can give the magsorcs a noproc campaign where they can play with themselves.

6 months is far to long time, with no double ap to numb the pain.

NagualV

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

Question.....wouldnt creating a second "no proc" campaign affect campaign population in a negative way?

If ZOS is committing to "re-code" or whatever, and they're telling us that this is only temporary, why affect campaign population by "halving" it?

UntouchableHunter

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

NagualV wrote: »

Question.....wouldnt creating a second "no proc" campaign affect campaign population in a negative way?

If ZOS is committing to "re-code" or whatever, and they're telling us that this is only temporary, why affect campaign population by "halving" it?

No. Just put one of the existing campaigns as a non proc sets.

VaranisArano

With ZOS now saying that they intend to add proc campaigns back in as an option eventually, I am befuddled by why we all have to swap to no-proc until they do.

It reminds me of ZOS' ill-conceived attempt to shove all the CP PVPers into one CP campaign with the hopes that some of us would give up and head to No CP Almalexia. Obviously, it didn't work. Almalexia got replaced by the CP campaign Shor.

I may be wrong, but this feels like ZOS is grasping at something to shake up the Cyrodiil meta. Sure, they did get a lot of positive feedback from players who like no-proc gameplay! But since the feedback they are getting now has made them certain there's a strong enough demand for both a no-proc and a proc campaign, I'm not sure what's another explanation for forcing everyone into no-proc Cyrodiil for a time.

I'm going to be very interested to see whether the proc or no-proc campaign is more popular!

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

silvereyes wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

The revert proc is still losing as it should.

Is it, though? Zos has stated that their campaign rule sets aren’t currently flexible with regards to proc vs no proc, so the “1 no proc campaign” option isn’t really an option until September at the earliest, when Update 31 arrives. How many people who chose the separate campaign option in the poll would be in the revert proc camp, if they were forced to choose, I wonder?

It was losing when I wrote that and it should lose, let's not assume the third option automatically implies they side with your opinion and I shall assume the same. You still don't get IT. ZOS realized over the last three weeks that they made mistakes in pvp mechanics that they can not fix yet... that doesn't mean you allow the mistakes to continue unabated once your realize they exist. And this is the fix, that's all this is and moving forward to the promise of future changes in pvp. Your sides opinion must lost because it holds on to the mistakes that zos realizes they made, its inherently a selfish motivation.

For someone who bids others to not make assumptions, you sure do assume a lot about me. I make no value claims about whether no proc campaigns are a good end goal or not.

My stance is about what to do right now, when the choices are “blow up the status quo without warning” or “wait until update 31”. Ask me again in September once zos has actually invested thought and coding into fixing their mistakes, and I may have a different opinion on what they have done then.

What they have done here in their sudden, capricious decision to beta test gameplay changes for 6 months on a production service isn’t a fix. It’s an impatient rush to an end goal that they haven’t put the work in to support with class balance and set redesign changes.

It's safe to make assumptions of each other as we are directly responding to each other, its third parties that we should not make assumptions for.

Your stance is not ZOS stance but your attempting making a referendum about their right to make choices with their game. As a customer your always right, but this means it's your right to engage the services that you desire.

ShortTripToHell

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

I mean I kinda liked testing out Cyro without the proc sets but anh I had enough of the tests by now.
The game is fully released for multiple years, as a programmer myself I understand you need live data sometimes but this is getting a bit out of hand no?

The fun / not fun discussion we can have on another topic but to me they should revert the change with the words: "No it didn't help, sorry. In a few months we try something else".

xaraan

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

I don't mind the idea of no proc cyrodiil, but not happy with the half done right version of only 19 sets working with a hundred sets that aren't procs not working.

Do it right or not at all.

BUT, the best way to do it is: Balance procs so they aren't over tuned, then people will choose to use them or not (sometimes something can make up for the horrible class balance in this game even if it's not strong enough to be meta for everything). And turn off procs for anything that is No-CP. (As the meta there is just build tanky and let procs do the work even more so than in CP pvp).

master_vanargand

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

Proc damage sets needs to be nerfed.
That should be the solution.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

master_vanargand wrote: »

Proc damage sets needs to be nerfed.
That should be the solution.

And then folks will complain they were over nerfed. This happens everytime a couple of times every year when the meta changes. It's called bargaining and is almost always precedes an attempt to move the goal post once dialog is opened. The end goal is almost always the same to remain in the current status qou that the objecter is cheesing.

exeeter702

The fact that there is so much compartmentalization in in game pvp content speaks volumes about the mess ZOS has got themselves in tbh.

Like you already have a pvp format that completely omits your games end game character progression system, and now you are going to further divide players by ostensibly formally supporting a specfic pvp format that disallows certain types of gear sets.

How many builds am I going to have to keep track of now?

Honestly it's getting ridiculous. Truth be told, I couldn't care less personally about the health of cyrodil as a whole as I find little value or personal satisfaction in indulging in low stakes, smorgasbord crowded large scale pvp, but this is just getting to be too much. Its like a combination of having a complete lack of vision, not having the tech to support the content, and desperately applying band aids in the Hope's that enough people will be content.

Are proc sets a stain on pvp and a crutch for the inept? Not entirely no, at least no in concept, but these sweeping uniform changes that always occur here in eso are exhausting. They have either created a game for which the variables afforded to player choice has become so unwieldly they have dug themsleves into a hole that they cannot realistically get themslevs out of, or they simply dont care enough to focus on aspects of the game that generally cater to the demographic of player that likely is far less lucrative.

VoidCommander

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

The revert proc is still losing as it should. Folks are acting hysterically to a temporary change. We are being given a gift... A GIFT, and you spit on it. That gift is a reprieve from many terrible choices zos made in items set introduction and mechanics. And once this present becomes past zos will have made the code to allow us to have more choices in our pvp experience. Yes you have back your full cheese mode eventually... but I wonder how many people will actually be there, and thats what truly scares you.

Differences between proc meta and non-proc meta. During the proc meta, I can get killed by a proc set user, get angry, frustrated, search up builds online, realize I need to use procs to stay competitive, alter my build likewise, and then succeed in 80% of the fights I'm in.

Proc-less meta I get killed by the new meta, the magsorc, because they have the best manueverability, aoe immobilizes and stuns, delayed execute burst, unrivaled damage shields, and pet body blockers. I get angry, frustrated, search up builds online, nothing is nearly as powerful as just playing a magsorc, I realize I can't stay competitive on my main (no, I am not playing a magsorc when my templar is rank 32 when I need 39 for legate black), then I continue to lose 80% of the fights I'm in, and the only ones I can win are against non-magsorc classes.

monkiie

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

The simple fix is to add in stat based sets like burning spellweave, clever alch, and new moon and keep the damage proc sets in the dumpster. The current 18 sets dont offer enough build diversity and allows certain classes like sorc to be exponentially better than every other spec.

ShortTripToHell

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

What if and hear me out. They balance the "problem proc sets" in a way to be enjoyable for all. Let's be honest it doesn't work for the lagg and we all grinded hours to get a good setup etc.

Example: let's have a look at Crimson.
5 items: After taking damage you surround yourself in an 8 meter mist of blood. After 2 seconds, the mist is violently siphoned into your body, dealing 8220 Bleed Damage to nearby enemies and healing you for 100% of the damage done. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds.

Why does a set that gives health and health regen deal damage and heals you? This is one example of a set that is just too much.

In my vision if you have a set that makes you tanky let it only be tanky. Play a healer? Take a set that when you heal, you have a chance to heal more.