Procless Cyrodiil, are you in favor or against? -

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

VoidCommander wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

The revert proc is still losing as it should. Folks are acting hysterically to a temporary change. We are being given a gift... A GIFT, and you spit on it. That gift is a reprieve from many terrible choices zos made in items set introduction and mechanics. And once this present becomes past zos will have made the code to allow us to have more choices in our pvp experience. Yes you have back your full cheese mode eventually... but I wonder how many people will actually be there, and thats what truly scares you.

Differences between proc meta and non-proc meta. During the proc meta, I can get killed by a proc set user, get angry, frustrated, search up builds online, realize I need to use procs to stay competitive, alter my build likewise, and then succeed in 80% of the fights I'm in.

Proc-less meta I get killed by the new meta, the magsorc, because they have the best manueverability, aoe immobilizes and stuns, delayed execute burst, unrivaled damage shields, and pet body blockers. I get angry, frustrated, search up builds online, nothing is nearly as powerful as just playing a magsorc, I realize I can't stay competitive on my main (no, I am not playing a magsorc when my templar is rank 32 when I need 39 for legate black), then I continue to lose 80% of the fights I'm in, and the only ones I can win are against non-magsorc classes.

Hyperbole much, I can too but mine is still more honest. Proc meta today is tank builds which the only counter play is more dps to burn through the staggering defenses and self healing leading to pig piles an single tanky characters, that can still do damage to the suckers not playing the tanky meta because they are either unaware or don't understand the meta.

We see this in every pvp video, its not that players are "good" it that their opponents are not and likely don't understand why it takes 6-7 people to burn one person. The set available that have allowed players who understand the nature of the meta to survive extreme pressure and damage not via their skill but the nature of their gear.

Even now some classes are better than others in this regard so it is not fair to try to point to class imbalance as an excuse to keep the current class imbalances.

This creates an environment that is extremely lopsided to the chaser of the meta and punishes those who do not wish or are not aware enough to cheese the current sets required to make them a tanky pig pile.

The no proc sets all players back to a baseline in gear allowing skill to shine more thru, but more importantly has removed the defensive sets that have so poisoned the meta. Its temporary and eventually you can have your procs back but seeing the fun that everyone had with baseline pvp set meta, zos has realized a drastic mistake in the choices they made in the introduction of many proc sets in regards to en mass pvp.

Siuansong

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

I would have voted for having one no proc campaign for now but zos clarified that isn't an option at this time due to limitations on this end. Just like I would vote to work on balance of certain sets in cyro so we can enjoy diversity of builds without some being rather strong (usually whatever released in the latest thing they want us to buy).
But for next 6 months, without any performance increases from locking heals to group, locking groups to just 12, and banning non-proc extensive lists of sets... would rather play in what we had before all the tests than the random decisions now until zos can lay out a real plan to change things in cyro.
And yes.. know that heals outside of group can be contentious... but main a warden healer and them busting orbs and budding seeds for months with that change and it only getting "fixed" by reverting heals outside of group... happy to see that poorly coded change gone.

Soul_Demon

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

Think of it in these terms.....exactly what do you do at the end of a much touted rework of the game to address performance?

Well, there are two options......
1. You made good progress and fixed bugs and improved performance after having community pay you subs and to run live testing on them against their will.- You brag about the stunning progress you made to silence the complaints
2. You make massive changes that remove the game so very far from where it was that if you simply revert back a couple of things, the community is confused and forgets the performance never improved at all from baseline and the last year was a failure in totality.- You divert staff to work on new game

Personally I know what this looks like to me.......question is what does it look like to you?

DrSlaughtr

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

It would be one thing if it made the server run drastically better. It didn't. Instead they're bowing to a vocal monitory who get butthurt over someone running zaans or getting bombed on a flag.

There's so many sets on that list that aren't cheese and are valid sets to run.

silvereyes

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Your stance is not ZOS stance but your attempting making a referendum about their right to make choices with their game.

Hardly. You misrepresent my views again.

Setting the creative goals and making choices on where to take the game is one thing. The game needs a game master, and though I don't always agree with the changes they make, I've learned to live with them, and I respect their right to make them.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

vesselwiththepestle

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

Cyrodiil has gotten so boring. No surprises anymore.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

silvereyes wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Your stance is not ZOS stance but your attempting making a referendum about their right to make choices with their game.

Hardly. You misrepresent my views again.

Setting the creative goals and making choices on where to take the game is one thing. The game needs a game master, and though I don't always agree with the changes they make, I've learned to live with them, and I respect their right to make them.

[snip]

Where did you get this information, do you have an insider as zos feeding you knowledge of the internal workings of the staff?

They're doing this because they saw people having fun. That's it, and it likely lead to the epiphany that players don't want sets in pvp when they're designed to help players survive vet content and trials in pve.

Folks saying just nerf it, don't realize that would effect pve and thats what we don't need. But the sets are too good to use in pvp, because players aren't trial boss dropping 30k+ hits that tanks need to survive. Then you take that tank and give him zaans and now it takes a group to kill him.

They see thus and they shut it down, they had to, they can't unsee it, they shouldn't turn their head. Too many things meant to increase pve dps, heals and survival unbalance pvp.

Dr_Ganknstein

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Your stance is not ZOS stance but your attempting making a referendum about their right to make choices with their game.

Hardly. You misrepresent my views again.

Setting the creative goals and making choices on where to take the game is one thing. The game needs a game master, and though I don't always agree with the changes they make, I've learned to live with them, and I respect their right to make them.

Subverting their own software development process and feedback cycle and leaving the server in an incomplete state for nearly seven months is another thing altogether. It's the sort of thing I expect of an impatient junior developer fresh out of school, not a triple-A gaming business.

They're doing this because they saw people having fun. That's it, and it likely lead to the epiphany that players don't want sets in pvp when they're designed to help players survive vet content and trials in pve.

How does Marksmans Crest or Vicious Death help players survive vet content?

DrSlaughtr

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

I must have missed all the tanks wearing Darloc Brae.

spotzhopz

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Your stance is not ZOS stance but your attempting making a referendum about their right to make choices with their game.

Hardly. You misrepresent my views again.

Setting the creative goals and making choices on where to take the game is one thing. The game needs a game master, and though I don't always agree with the changes they make, I've learned to live with them, and I respect their right to make them.

Subverting their own software development process and feedback cycle and leaving the server in an incomplete state for nearly seven months is another thing altogether. It's the sort of thing I expect of an impatient junior developer fresh out of school, not a triple-A gaming business.

They're doing this because they saw people having fun. That's it, and it likely lead to the epiphany that players don't want sets in pvp when they're designed to help players survive vet content and trials in pve.

How does Marksmans Crest or Vicious Death help players survive vet content?

Gotta love that pretty much all the sets you can buy with AP dont work where you get AP anymore.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Your stance is not ZOS stance but your attempting making a referendum about their right to make choices with their game.

Hardly. You misrepresent my views again.

Setting the creative goals and making choices on where to take the game is one thing. The game needs a game master, and though I don't always agree with the changes they make, I've learned to live with them, and I respect their right to make them.

Subverting their own software development process and feedback cycle and leaving the server in an incomplete state for nearly seven months is another thing altogether. It's the sort of thing I expect of an impatient junior developer fresh out of school, not a triple-A gaming business.

They're doing this because they saw people having fun. That's it, and it likely lead to the epiphany that players don't want sets in pvp when they're designed to help players survive vet content and trials in pve.

How does Marksmans Crest or Vicious Death help players survive vet content?

[snip] They cant pick and choose which sets to stop. It's currently all procs for now because a number of procs have unbalanced cyrodiil and diminished the fun.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

silvereyes

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Your stance is not ZOS stance but your attempting making a referendum about their right to make choices with their game.

Hardly. You misrepresent my views again.

Setting the creative goals and making choices on where to take the game is one thing. The game needs a game master, and though I don't always agree with the changes they make, I've learned to live with them, and I respect their right to make them.

Subverting their own software development process and feedback cycle and leaving the server in an incomplete state for nearly seven months is another thing altogether. It's the sort of thing I expect of an impatient junior developer fresh out of school, not a triple-A gaming business.

Where did you get this information, do you have an insider as zos feeding you knowledge of the internal workings of the staff?

Yes. Her name is Gina.

Their standard development cycle isn't exactly a secret. Feel free to go back and read the last seven years of PTS patch notes. I'll wait.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

The term you use is subversion... this is outside any cycle but it's not a subversion of that cycle. The cycle continues on unabated, but they saw an underlying issue in their core pvp gameplay and they can't unsee that.

It's like your house is on fire, you don't let it burn down because your waiting for a land line to be installed in your house to call the fire department. They have to put the fire out, your part of that fire and I know it annoys you, but your gonna hosed for a while.

VaranisArano

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Your stance is not ZOS stance but your attempting making a referendum about their right to make choices with their game.

Hardly. You misrepresent my views again.

Setting the creative goals and making choices on where to take the game is one thing. The game needs a game master, and though I don't always agree with the changes they make, I've learned to live with them, and I respect their right to make them.

Subverting their own software development process and feedback cycle and leaving the server in an incomplete state for nearly seven months is another thing altogether. It's the sort of thing I expect of an impatient junior developer fresh out of school, not a triple-A gaming business.

They're doing this because they saw people having fun. That's it, and it likely lead to the epiphany that players don't want sets in pvp when they're designed to help players survive vet content and trials in pve.

How does Marksmans Crest or Vicious Death help players survive vet content?

[snip] They cant pick and choose which sets to stop. It's currently all procs for now because a number of procs have unbalanced cyrodiil and diminished the fun.

I get that ZOS can't pick and choose to allow, say, Seducers, while banning Sloads.

That's why they are trying to rework a lot of the current "proc" sets for Q3, so they can bring some of them back for permanent use.

On the other hand, ZOS seems just fine with eventually bringing back a proc-enabled campaign eventually. So I'm not sure I buy your statement that it's all procs for now because it unbalanced Cyrodiil. Clearly it didn't unbalance Cyrodiil enough to justify a permanent change.

Which leaves the question of why are we going no-proc for 6 months until ZOS decides to bring back the proc campaign option?

Just because it's fun for a certain segment of players?

silvereyes

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

The term you use is subversion... this is outside any cycle but it's not a subversion of that cycle. The cycle continues on unabated

Yes, I used that word, and I stand by it. The combat is normally balanced, for better or worse, in a standard cycle that has had all of these proc sets in place. Removing all of these proc sets out of coordination with their testing cycle invalidates any balance testing that they have done. It is especially troublesome that they do this now, right after completing all of their major PTS testing for CP 2.0, racial changes and armor changes. It's too late for them to tweak anything that may be thrown way out of whack by removing proc sets.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

People were having fun... sorry it bursts your bubble of how you believe you should be able to create their deadlines. It's the best time to move in a new direction when you just made a lot of other changes, I can't think of a better time to say "hey, they like this, let's let them run with it for awhile"

katorga

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

20 sets means ZOS just shut down all of the 3rd party content that evangelizes this game. PVE content is basically 5-10 end game sets, and a bunch of boring videos of people whacking on a target dummy. Now PVP has the same boring build craft.

Jayserix

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

katorga wrote: »

20 sets means ZOS just shut down all of the 3rd party content that evangelizes this game. PVE content is basically 5-10 end game sets, and a bunch of boring videos of people whacking on a target dummy. Now PVP has the same boring build craft.

100% untrue

WhyEvenTry

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

Good thing pvp has organic encounters, unlike pve, so it can still be fresh and fun outside of build crafting.

UntouchableHunter

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

We are seeing in every pool that the pvpers

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I must have missed all the tanks wearing Darloc Brae.

Since the release Darloc Brae I started to use on my gankblade. I remember watching in YouTube every pvp players saying bad stuffs about this set that won't be good for pvp.
I would say that I was the first one using it. And was amazing, after more then a year I saw people in youtube showing a new build with Darloc Brae 😁

kingsirdrmr

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

I'd rather not have a server split of any kind, but it's better to move the no procs to their own corner than force a change that a large portion of the pvp playerbase doesn't want. I hate the op proc sets, but I love theorycrafting and troll builds more than I hate these sets.

techyeshic

I don't like the options. I would rather the test ended and they use the feed back to balance procs. The splitting to proc and no proc campaigns tell me they wont bother to balance and will just say you either deal with all procs, or go to 15 set land.

kingsirdrmr

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Proc damage sets needs to be nerfed.
That should be the solution.

And then folks will complain they were over nerfed. This happens everytime a couple of times every year when the meta changes. It's called bargaining and is almost always precedes an attempt to move the goal post once dialog is opened. The end goal is almost always the same to remain in the current status qou that the objecter is cheesing.

That's fine. Nerf the sets. Let people complain for a while. They'll have new builds within the month and quiet down like they always do. Besides, meta changes are good for the game's health. No one wants a meta artificially frozen in time like the no-proc change is doing now (and I say frozen in time because all of this only applies to one zone while the rest of the game moves forward with new sets).

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

You and I know there would be double the people crying if tank sets, arena and mythic items all got nerfed because they're too good for pvp. I like the stuff in pve where I got to smack monsters that have millions of hit points and time limits to kill them in. And all the pro proc players purposely trashing no proc players, who committed the mistake of having fun with out a bunch a flashy garbage on the screen, will instead have a horde of pissed off no pvp players asking zos why they're money wasn't good enough to stop the nerf and how much they hate pvp players for nerfing their toys.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Opalblade

Bring them back and nerf the OP sets, or at least remove things like "increases blah stat by blah%" from the list of banned sets. Real proc sets are a problem, but you don't set 90% of your lawn on fire just to kill a few weeds.

Kwoung

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

I think they maybe should have only made one server no-proc for the test and seen where people preferred to play. But according to the multitude of forum polls/posts on the matter, albeit not "official", it appears that an overwhelming majority felt that no-proc was their preference, like 85%... now the 15% are crying foul.

My group of friends are fine with the next 5-6 months of no-proc, as it has been pretty fun and makes you get better at PVP. As for sorcs being OP, whatever... I play one and have had far greater success and wins playing my MagPlar lately, who is still running his same old sets and not getting the 5 piece bonus... until I get around to re-gearing him.

OtarTheMad

The fact that the procless Cyrodiil is temporary, I can deal with it.

Minalan

Make no-proc Cyrodiil permanent

I’m having fun with no proc and wish it was permanent.

I’m blowing people up left and right, and getting blown up in return and I don’t even care.

It’s fun. More fun than I’ve had in years.

amir412

Change 1 campaign be no-proc

@ZOS_GinaBruno Please consider this poll's results before implementing these changes to Cyrodiil.

WolfyRaps

Revert to proc Cyrodiil

I dont want to play a Magsorc only Cyrodiil. I dont want hundreds of sets and builds that I have farmed and created over the years to become completly useless.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]