Trader swap issue - EU server

hakan

i hope there wont be a complete server rollback.

ive got amberplasm and meridian skin plus impen balorgh head and zaan.

but on the other hand, i cant hold on with these prices.

*** why this game is so problematic?

tahol10069

Titansteele wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

Our GM just had sent a message telling we lost our trader for good after todays patch. And we lost the money we bidded too.

Mind you, we won the bid.

But then someone else managed to snatch the trader from under our noses. Now we have no money and no trader. We lost a crapton of money because we had lost the bid for two weeks in a row, and needed to rise the bid. And now this happened.

Something doesn't add up here, people were refunded 4 times the bids which is one of the problems encountered and a topic of hot discussion in this thread. You may have no trader but you should not have no money.

Not every guild. Or course it is tempting to believe that every guild is now rolling in exploit money, but no. Why would our GM, or me, lie about this? I'm already fuming, I don't need someone come and calling me a liar. SOME guilds got 4 times their bid back. Some guilds, not all.

What part of "we won the bid" you don't understand? We won the bid. There is nothing to return. Then someone managed to hire the trader, even if it was our trader. It was signed as our trader, our guild could see it as our trader, but the trader wouldn't list our stuff. Or course not, because someone managed to hire the trader for 10k. And we did not get the money back. I'm sorry but if I try to go simpler I might have to resort to crayons next and I have no idea how to manage that in internet.

To my understanding there was a hotfix patch last night, which ended us in the situation with no trader and no money for good.

Mitrenga

hakan wrote: »

i hope there wont be a complete server rollback.

ive got amberplasm and meridian skin plus impen balorgh head and zaan.

but on the other hand, i cant hold on with these prices.

*** why this game is so problematic?

Sometimes I too wonder why we even bother...

Brodda

Titansteele wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

Our GM just had sent a message telling we lost our trader for good after todays patch. And we lost the money we bidded too.

Mind you, we won the bid.

But then someone else managed to snatch the trader from under our noses. Now we have no money and no trader. We lost a crapton of money because we had lost the bid for two weeks in a row, and needed to rise the bid. And now this happened.

Something doesn't add up here, people were refunded 4 times the bids which is one of the problems encountered and a topic of hot discussion in this thread. You may have no trader but you should not have no money.

They were refunded unsuccessful bids. So if you bid all your funds only on one trader and "won", then tough luck, you're out of money and without a trader.

Titansteele

tahol10069 wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

Our GM just had sent a message telling we lost our trader for good after todays patch. And we lost the money we bidded too.

Mind you, we won the bid.

But then someone else managed to snatch the trader from under our noses. Now we have no money and no trader. We lost a crapton of money because we had lost the bid for two weeks in a row, and needed to rise the bid. And now this happened.

Something doesn't add up here, people were refunded 4 times the bids which is one of the problems encountered and a topic of hot discussion in this thread. You may have no trader but you should not have no money.

Not every guild. Or course it is tempting to believe that every guild is now rolling in exploit money, but no. Why would our GM, or me, lie about this? I'm already fuming, I don't need someone come and calling me a liar. SOME guilds got 4 times their bid back. Some guilds, not all.

What part of "we won the bid" you don't understand?[/i] We won the bid. There is nothing to return. Then someone managed to hire the trader, even if it was our trader. It was signed as our trader, our guild could see it as our trader, but the trader wouldn't list our stuff. Or course not, because someone managed to hire the trader for 10k. And we did not get the money back. I'm sorry but if I try to go simpler I might have to resort to crayons next and I have no idea how to manage that in internet.

To my understanding there was a hotfix patch last night, which ended us in the situation with no trader and no money for good.

First off I didn't call you a liar, I said something does not add up there is a big difference. I would have bluntly called you a liar if that was my intent.
GM`s have stolen gold before and they will again, It has very recently happened to a guild I was in. Guild history was disabled so if gold was removed from a bank quickly (which MANY did) then there would be no audit trail we can see yet.

We won the bid as well and got all our bids refunded to us four fold. This is the first report I have seen where someone didn't get their gold back in spades so it doesn't add up. Get angry at me if you must and try to through slurs at my intelligence but all that proves is you are unable to remain objective and level headed.

If this is indeed an edge case it is up to the GM to address that with ZOS, I will even help donate some gold to get the guild back on its feet if it is true but I remain sceptical.

tahol10069

Titansteele wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

Our GM just had sent a message telling we lost our trader for good after todays patch. And we lost the money we bidded too.

Mind you, we won the bid.

But then someone else managed to snatch the trader from under our noses. Now we have no money and no trader. We lost a crapton of money because we had lost the bid for two weeks in a row, and needed to rise the bid. And now this happened.

Something doesn't add up here, people were refunded 4 times the bids which is one of the problems encountered and a topic of hot discussion in this thread. You may have no trader but you should not have no money.

Not every guild. Or course it is tempting to believe that every guild is now rolling in exploit money, but no. Why would our GM, or me, lie about this? I'm already fuming, I don't need someone come and calling me a liar. SOME guilds got 4 times their bid back. Some guilds, not all.

What part of "we won the bid" you don't understand?[/i] We won the bid. There is nothing to return. Then someone managed to hire the trader, even if it was our trader. It was signed as our trader, our guild could see it as our trader, but the trader wouldn't list our stuff. Or course not, because someone managed to hire the trader for 10k. And we did not get the money back. I'm sorry but if I try to go simpler I might have to resort to crayons next and I have no idea how to manage that in internet.

To my understanding there was a hotfix patch last night, which ended us in the situation with no trader and no money for good.

First off I didn't call you a liar, I said something does not add up there is a big difference. I would have bluntly called you a liar if that was my intent.
GM`s have stolen gold before and they will again, It has very recently happened to a guild I was in. Guild history was disabled so if gold was removed from a bank quickly (which MANY did) then there would be no audit trail we can see yet.

We won the bid as well and got all our bids refunded to us four fold. This is the first report I have seen where someone didn't get their gold back in spades so it doesn't add up. Get angry at me if you must and try to through slurs at my intelligence but all that proves is you are unable to remain objective and level headed.

If this is indeed an edge case it is up to the GM to address that with ZOS, I will even help donate some gold to get the guild back on its feet if it is true but I remain sceptical.

Or really, I'm not objective and level-headed? Who would have thought, me being so angry I just cancelled my sub and now concider to uninstall for good?

I'm trying to get this issue through, and then has to come some besserwisser GM who is rolling now in money and thus believes everyone else does too, to question me and my intents. And I can assure you, our GM is honest in this. This is their sidequild I'm in, they have a real bigmoney guild too that prints money. Also why we don't have much of a requirements to be in the guild. They have another one where the requirements are huge, it's nice of them to run second one for casuals like me.

I'm trying to get this heard, and you are on my way. Why do you even care? You have your money, why don't you just concentrate on how to spend it as there seems to be very little risk that you will ever lose it. Why, when I try to get the point through that some guilds are now in a really, really pissy situation you have to come and interfere with your suspicions? And how cunning of you first try to say that there are posts of how guilds got their bidmoney back four times, and how suprising, it is actually YOUR guild that got it.

pdblake

idk wrote: »

I agree. It is sad so few players take seriously testing updates on the PTS which is the only way a change like this can be tested properly.

I pay to play this game not test it. I get my fill of testing software at work thanks.

Delpi

No official answer yet???

Cruxanero

Delpi wrote: »

No official answer yet???

Only "stay tuned".

anitajoneb17_ESO

@ZOS_GinaBruno : you really need to make a decision/plan and let us know.

So far only the trading community was concerned. Now players start wondering about the trader locations, the prices, the availability of goods, and asking around. Once they've more or less understood the big mess of last sunday, they ask what ZOS has decided to do. And there's no answer.

Then they start bashing anything and everything (ZOS, ESO, traders, GMs, whatever) and exchanging tips as to how to exploit the situation. Luckily noone agrees as to how to exploit it best, but it's extremely toxic, and worsening.

Mathius_Mordred

Oh this is going downhill fast!

InB4ModWarning!

Mitrenga

Better not log in til' this mess gets sorted.
I do not want to ruin my price history.

ThePlayer

Everything is fine, prize cant go down or up so much, stay calm

Mitaka211

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

Maybe you need to take another look at the incompetent people working in your studio , just saying. This stream of game breaking mistakes is not acceptable in a mmo that big. When i thought you can't get any lower than the free necromancer class you manage to do something that is even dumber. Good job ZOS.

LeinadOrarogep

I’m really stupefied by the lack of a response from ZOS. I refresh the Dev Tracker every 10 mins hoping for any sign of life, but nothing.

The silence from ZOS in this situation is deafening: this is a far more grave issue that the performance or the lag - billions of gold injected in the economy, lost traders, and the looming specter that on Sunday some nefarious actor could try to actively exploit the system to gain those sweet billions in refunds.

Please, @ZOS_MattFiror, give use a sign!

redgreensunset

Titansteele wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

Our GM just had sent a message telling we lost our trader for good after todays patch. And we lost the money we bidded too.

Mind you, we won the bid.

But then someone else managed to snatch the trader from under our noses. Now we have no money and no trader. We lost a crapton of money because we had lost the bid for two weeks in a row, and needed to rise the bid. And now this happened.

Something doesn't add up here, people were refunded 4 times the bids which is one of the problems encountered and a topic of hot discussion in this thread. You may have no trader but you should not have no money.

Nah, there are several reports too about guilds getting nothing back whether or not they won their bid while at the same time some guilds got millions to billions back, whether or not they won or lost their bid. There's just a lot less talk about it in part because this won't destabilize the economy in the same way. But yeah, some guilds might be majorly screwed because of this, the whole thing was a clusterf!ck from start to finish and ZOS is doing nothing as per usual.

Mathius_Mordred

LeinadOrarogep wrote: »

...and the looming specter that on Sunday some nefarious actor could try to actively exploit the system to gain those sweet billions in refunds.

Surely not...

martinhpb16_ESO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpLQl0sU4rg

One of my fav tracks, "Tune In" by Cocoa Tea

LeinadOrarogep

Please, let’s refrain from derailing or non constructive comments: this thread MUST NOT get buried, but consistently remain at the top, updated with new useful information constantly.
Already there are other discussions going over in General, but we must not let this issue get buried or forgotten.

OsManiaC

LeinadOrarogep wrote: »

I’m really stupefied by the lack of a response from ZOS. I refresh the Dev Tracker every 10 mins hoping for any sign of life, but nothing.

The silence from ZOS in this situation is deafening: this is a far more grave issue that the performance or the lag - billions of gold injected in the economy, lost traders, and the looming specter that on Sunday some nefarious actor could try to actively exploit the system to gain those sweet billions in refunds.

Please, @ZOS_MattFiror, give use a sign!

I dont use twitter, but if people has it, it would be good

I only opened one in reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/cs8hkw/pceu_had_a_disaster_in_trading_pcna_prepare/

ı also spam every thread here

anitajoneb17_ESO

LeinadOrarogep wrote: »

updated with new useful information constantly...

The problem is, updated new useful information is precisely what we lack... :-(

LeinadOrarogep

We could start by listing the trading guilds that have been affected by the issue.
This is useful to know, right?
Gives an idea if the size of the problem.
We could list the affected guilds, one guild per reply posted.

OsManiaC

LeinadOrarogep wrote: »

We could start by listing the trading guilds that have been affected by the issue.
This is useful to know, right?
Gives an idea if the size of the problem.
We could list the affected guilds, one guild per reply posted.

ı send ticket for each,

the argonian kebab legally won rimmen, got 10k rimmen, 4x refund money is still available

the argonian steak legally won rimmen, got no backup, 4x refund money is still available

the argonian bbq legally won malabal tor, got no backup, 4x refund money is still available

Mathius_Mordred

LeinadOrarogep wrote: »

We could start by listing the trading guilds that have been affected by the issue.
This is useful to know, right?
Gives an idea if the size of the problem.
We could list the affected guilds, one guild per reply posted.

LeinadOrarogep wrote: »

We could start by listing the trading guilds that have been affected by the issue.
This is useful to know, right?
Gives an idea if the size of the problem.
We could list the affected guilds, one guild per reply posted.

They have all been affected if they actually bid for something, one way or another. What you may want to ask is how many trading guilds have benefitted and how many have lost out, I bet you would mostly hear back from those who lost out, they will be the ones who only bid on a single trader for many millions, lost it and didn't get their gold back. Those who bid on more than one would have got a multiple of their money back even if they lost and so are probably not that bothered as long as it's only a week and especially considering you can then go out and hire almost any trader for 10K, which is what most have done. Yes, the only trader guilds who should have lost out big time are those that only bid on one spot.

LeinadOrarogep

The point is that if we list the guild and keep this thread updated with this useful and detailed information, then:
1. It won’t be close for being non productive - we all need to know which and how many guilds have been affected!
2. It will stay on top of the General forum, so it won’t be buried or forgotten.

Wink wink

Aurielle

SammiSakura wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Reading the forums after basic patches like

this isnt from a basic patch though, its due to the implementation of complete new bidding system

This isn’t a major expansion replete with multiple new systems; it’s a basic dungeon DLC with some small changes like the new bidding system, as well as a minor overhaul of several pre-existing skills. Other game developers are able to introduce new features and DLCs without repeatedly breaking their games. ESO’s devs introduce new bugs and performance issues with every patch of late. It’s almost like they’re rushing content releases to meet aggressive / unrealistic deadlines and not thoroughly testing their code...

LeglessUK

Still no fix, guess i will just have to Stay Tuned, the lack of communication is laughable, and they promised they'd keep us all informed, nice work zos, i feel sorry for the forum mods having to deal with this, as there's nothing they can do if the devs are hiding from the problem

KappaKid83

SantieClaws wrote: »

It is morning and still no further information?

Most unexpected yes and of significant concern.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

If Santie Claws is concerned about the lack of communication we should all be, oh boy.

DragonRacer

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

We could start by listing the trading guilds that Yes, the only trader guilds who should have lost out big time are those that only bid on one spot.

And the heartbreaking part about THAT is those are the guilds who need a trader the most. The poor small/middle-sized guilds who spend all week scraping together money for one bid... to not even have the loss refunded because the game registered it as a "won bid" even though someone else hired it for 10k because of the apocalyptic meltdown Sunday night?

As a GM, that's the kind of "wind rushing out of sails" that I can't properly describe. The thought of even having to say such a thing to my guildmates, after saving up for the big change and having lost 2 weeks in a row prior (as was reported), honestly makes my stomach churn putting myself in that GM's shoes.

And then, I imagine, the question on EVERY GM's mind on PC EU is... do you even try to place a bid this Sunday? Or does everyone stand around trying to hire? Especially those who placed a bid and then were stuck in limbo unable to hire because the game lost its marbles?

What. A. Mess.

Arrodisia

VaranisArano wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

Thorvarg wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

I think it is well understandable who has received excessive repayments. These guilds / guild leaders, of course, the sum must be deducted again. Once they have spent this money, and thus exploited intentionally, they should be banned permanently and their assets confiscated.

...and what about the loss of income due to insufficient testing?

Exactly this. Many people were left with no trader, and no refunded gold at all. Some people are harping on the few guilds who won some extra money, but barely or not even mentioning the ones who lost big. Where is the compensation for that? At this point they should just work on the patch, and refund the losses. So, it doesn't happen again. The rest is just a waste of time and resources at this point.

Best Regards

Its pretty clear what untangling it properly would take.

ZOS needs to revert all trader ownership, rerun the guild bids, assign traders appropriately, and refund the unused bids, while taking back the extra refunds and punishing those who took advantage of the excessive refunds for breaking the TOS.

That fixes the issue for all guilds who used the multibidding system.

It sucks for the players who bought traders for 10K, because that's technically the game working as intended for unclaimed traders...but its clear the game didn't work as intended. So those players didnt exploit because buying unclaimed traders is the game working as intended, but its still better to reset the whole thing.

The players who spent the excessive refunds, on the other hand, absolutely exploited. Those are players who know exactly how much they bid, who know exactly how much refund they expected, and spending or "laundering" that gold was no accident. That was deliberately taking advantage of a glitch.

Now, whether or not ZOS will actually do the above...that's up to them.

It's highly doubtful that will happen. It's not impossible though, just unlikely. A patch makes more sense. It's less disruption for us, and less work to do, if it is successful.

Best Regards