Revert Faction Locks. We've Been Through This Already

majulook

Why not just make it to so when you first start the game you pick an Alliance and that is the one you are stuck for all characters? I will tell you why not, because it is silly and so is Faction Lock.

We can have multiple characters which can belong to different Alliances so why is PVP limited to just one Alliance?

LinearParadox

Keep the faction lock.
Whatever you do, don't listen to the criers and whiners that want to go back to the toxic and un-balanced wild west of faction hopping, cross-faction teamups, win trading, scroll cheating, and all the other horrible things that came of people being able to just hop characters to the winning faction.
It was horrible, toxic, unbalanced, and insanely exploitable.
There were no factions, only rapidly shifting teams of colors with 0 allegiance.

It did NOTHING to balance player numbers.
NO ONE switched chars to log in and fight for the team in 3rd place, they switched AWAY from the one getting double-teamed, to one of the ones DOING the double-teaming, and only made the problem WORSE.
It eventually drove me completely out of Cyrodiil, along with quite a few other people I know.

Cyrodiil is built around the concept of competition, just like any sport.
And just like any other sport, you can't compete if you don't have teams, and you can't have TEAMS if the players just RANDOMLY CHANGE SIDES EVERY 5 MINUTES WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE IT.

Can you people just STOP for a moment and THINK about what you're asking for?
Think about watching the Superbowl and every 5 or 10 minutes, when they're setting up the lines again, one of the players just stands up, shrugs, walks over to the OTHER TEAM and just switches sides.
Can you imagine the reaction that would get??? It's utterly absurd!
Now... imagine that... for some unknown reason, that happens. And it happens a LOT. Maybe 30 or 40 times during a game.
Almost everyone on both teams, say 80% or more, have played for the other side for some length of time. Some more than others, some switched back to their original teams, some stayed, some switched multiple times, some didn't switch at all...
Alright, times up.
Who won? The "team" with the most points?
What team? Define "team".

It's ridiculous.
What you people are asking for, is to allow Cyrodiil to CONTINUE to languish in this preposterous state of shameful lack of identity.
You want Who's Line is it Anyway; Cyrodiil Edition, where the teams are made up and the points don't matter.

You wanna play with your cross-faction friends? Cool. I get that. I have a few myself from playing PvE and Battlegrounds.
Go play Battlegrounds then.
That's what it's there for. Literally.
Play BGs.

Cyrodiil is for FACTION PLAY.
Asking for Cyrodiil to be faction-agnostic is like asking people to pick a permanent Battlegrounds team for their character.
It just doesn't make any sense.
It never did, and should never have been removed in the first place.

I understand that people grew accustomed to things the way they are now, and that the change back will be rough in some ways, but that doesn't mean that's it's not a change for the better

TBois

One more way this game is being put on rails and losing its sandbox nature.

Enkil

TBois wrote: »

One more way this game is being put on rails and losing its sandbox nature.

LMAO... ESO is far-removed from being a sandbox game. The whole alliance war is a dev contrivance that many advocated against early on, and doesn’t even really jive with Elder Scrolls lore and traditions. This game has very little “sandbox nature” apart from the character development aspects.

In theory, the Elder Scrolls universe lends itself perfectly to a sandbox mmo. (ESO 2 perhaps?)

Many hate the entire faction alliance-war concept, but that’s what they implemented, so a faction lock is necessary to make it work properly in PvP areas where it is still blatantly the foundation and structure of the game.

Unless the devs are prepared to abandon the realm vs realm concept with all the alliance related stuff in Cyrodiil, we need some restrictions to make the game work as designed.

Perhaps many devs think in retrospect, that the game would have been way better as more of a sandbox-type Guild v Guild game, but they put that argument to rest over 5 years ago in alpha and beta much to the chagrin of the player-base. This is the game we got.... gotta make the best of it.

Drako_Ei

I was farming IC happily until i got rolled over by a zerg, seeking for revenge i hopped into my stamblade and ganked 2 of them.

Then their tank switched to my alliance to give them a heads up when i was near by (Its funny how he was wearing ebon armor....). He would follow me so their friends knew where and when to drop their aoe ultimates.

Faction lock wont allow you to play with all your friends in PVP, so thats really bad IMO, but its necesary because of these kind of players TBH, you have earned it.... enjoy it....

TBois

Enkil wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

One more way this game is being put on rails and losing its sandbox nature.

LMAO... ESO is far-removed from being a sandbox game. The whole alliance war is a dev contrivance that many advocated against early on, and doesn’t even really jive with Elder Scrolls lore and traditions. This game has very little “sandbox nature” apart from the character development aspects.

I hate the entire faction alliance-war concept, but that’s what they implemented, so a faction lock is necessary to make it work properly in PvP areas where it is still blatantly the foundation and structure of the game.

Unless the devs are prepared to abandon the realm vs realm concept with all the alliance related stuff in Cyrodiil, we need some restrictions to make the game work as designed.

Perhaps many devs think in retrospect, that the game would have been way better as more of a sandbox-type Guild v Guild game, but they put that argument to rest over 5 years ago in alpha and beta much to the chagrin of the player-base. This is the game we got.... gotta make the best of it.

I've advocated for it to change to a guild v guild system. It's a much more interesting system to me than forcing people to play for a dev generated alliance.

TBois

I also helped all these leaders in all three alliances on my toon. It breaks my immersion that they wouldn't want me on their side.

Ixtyr

TBois wrote: »

I also helped all these leaders in all three alliances on my toon. It breaks my immersion that they wouldn't want me on their side.

I'm actually amused that I never even thought about that. I've literally done full completion on my main too, there essentially is no "loyalty" even built into the overland questing for the alliances. Sure, back before One Tamriel we had alliance-only instances for every zone, but even that was a bit of a farce. I'm a DC Nightblade with thousands upon thousands of Cyrodiil kills, yet I can walk into Riften or Elden Root with no issue.

I know they sort of explain that away with Meridia's blessing for the Cadwell quests, but it really is pretty hypocritical. The Alliances are essentially made to mean absolutely nothing in the game, even before One Tamriel trivialized them even further.

Ahtu

Ixtyr wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

I also helped all these leaders in all three alliances on my toon. It breaks my immersion that they wouldn't want me on their side.

I'm actually amused that I never even thought about that. I've literally done full completion on my main too, there essentially is no "loyalty" even built into the overland questing for the alliances. Sure, back before One Tamriel we had alliance-only instances for every zone, but even that was a bit of a farce. I'm a DC Nightblade with thousands upon thousands of Cyrodiil kills, yet I can walk into Riften or Elden Root with no issue.

I know they sort of explain that away with Meridia's blessing for the Cadwell quests, but it really is pretty hypocritical. The Alliances are essentially made to mean absolutely nothing in the game, even before One Tamriel trivialized them even further.

I've only done EP quests on my main and never go into enemy territory. I only PvP so I only interact with players of my same alliance. Plus, all of the NPCs and guards recognize my contribution to said alliance.

Sure, you can have full completion of the entire map but if you choose to go into enemy territory it's on you. How you play the game is entirely up to you but some players choose to do only the quests for their or chosen faction.

Beardimus

MipMip wrote: »

pzschrek wrote: »

It isn't okay.

That sums it up correctly.

Forcing faction lock on everyone just isn't ok (no the non locked campaigns as planned now are not a real alternative)

They are if you care about what you want.

I'm pro lock, and ill happily go play where the lock is. Happy for that to be shor over Vivec, where ever.

Seems the anti lock players won't do the same, they want to zerg.

TBois

Ahtu wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

I also helped all these leaders in all three alliances on my toon. It breaks my immersion that they wouldn't want me on their side.

I'm actually amused that I never even thought about that. I've literally done full completion on my main too, there essentially is no "loyalty" even built into the overland questing for the alliances. Sure, back before One Tamriel we had alliance-only instances for every zone, but even that was a bit of a farce. I'm a DC Nightblade with thousands upon thousands of Cyrodiil kills, yet I can walk into Riften or Elden Root with no issue.

I know they sort of explain that away with Meridia's blessing for the Cadwell quests, but it really is pretty hypocritical. The Alliances are essentially made to mean absolutely nothing in the game, even before One Tamriel trivialized them even further.

I've only done EP quests on my main and never go into enemy territory. I only PvP so I only interact with players of my same alliance. Plus, all of the NPCs and guards recognize my contribution to said alliance.

Sure, you can have full completion of the entire map but if you choose to go into enemy territory it's on you. How you play the game is entirely up to you but some players choose to do only the quests for their or chosen faction.

Make faction lock based on quests done! Stop breaking my immersion, ZOS. If you faction RP and only do one questline make that character locked to that faction, but once I help the other factions open my faction options up for my character.

TBois

Beardimus wrote: »

MipMip wrote: »

pzschrek wrote: »

It isn't okay.

That sums it up correctly.

Forcing faction lock on everyone just isn't ok (no the non locked campaigns as planned now are not a real alternative)

They are if you care about what you want.

I'm pro lock, and ill happily go play where the lock is. Happy for that to be shor over Vivec, where ever.

Seems the anti lock players won't do the same, they want to zerg.

I'm committed to shor (or whatever the new 7 day will be called), but I have to sacrifice 30 day rewards.

Also those who dont want faction lock that are talking about not wanting to play in shor are mostly those that play at a time where there isnt a us primetime population.

Edit: FYI I only play one toon. So I dont faction swap, but I dont believe faction locks this will be healthy for the game.

illutian

Here's the thing to ask: Why are they enabling faction lock again.

ZOS, are you saying you want to discourage two of the three factions from ganging up and actively working together?

If so, then it'd be better to just hand out temp suspensions to people suspected of working "with the other side".

((Case in point, right now there's an EP that has our scroll [AD] and is running towards DC territory; right now just hitting Chalman Keep. At no point has the system messaged that the scroll was dropped by EP after they picked it back up after we killed their carrier the first time.))

Now, if the intention is to NOT prevent this sort of 'cooperation', then leave faction lock off. And let the players handle spies and what not.

In the end, faction locking will do nothing because we have things like Discord. The only way to prevent that sort of play (if that's desired by ZOS) is to hand out punishment. - Stop trying to take the easy way; it won't work!

twitch_zero

Perfect example just now of why people want a faction lock. On NA Vivec, DC held an AD scroll, AD tried to take it but dropped it, a DC player picked it up and then proceeded to run the scroll back to AD.

Minalan

twitch_zero wrote: »

Perfect example just now of why people want a faction lock. On NA Vivec, DC held an AD scroll, AD tried to take it but dropped it, a DC player picked it up and then proceeded to run the scroll back to AD.

I was there when it happened, we know who did it.

Problem is, now you have another 100+ players thinking that faction lock is the way to go.

GG AD.

Marcus684

Minalan wrote: »

twitch_zero wrote: »

Perfect example just now of why people want a faction lock. On NA Vivec, DC held an AD scroll, AD tried to take it but dropped it, a DC player picked it up and then proceeded to run the scroll back to AD.

I was there when it happened, we know who did it.

Problem is, now you have another 100+ players thinking that faction lock is the way to go.

GG AD.

The anti-faction lockers are their own worst enemies. They do shite like this, and the noob pvpers, most of whom probably don't yet have an opinion about faction locks, think "Wow that was BS. Faction locks would be good if it prevented this".

jimijac0me

twitch_zero wrote: »

Perfect example just now of why people want a faction lock. On NA Vivec, DC held an AD scroll, AD tried to take it but dropped it, a DC player picked it up and then proceeded to run the scroll back to AD.

Minalan wrote: »

twitch_zero wrote: »

Perfect example just now of why people want a faction lock. On NA Vivec, DC held an AD scroll, AD tried to take it but dropped it, a DC player picked it up and then proceeded to run the scroll back to AD.

I was there when it happened, we know who did it.

Problem is, now you have another 100+ players thinking that faction lock is the way to go.

GG AD.

Yep and this is nothing new, like opposition turning siege and all the rest of the bs that goes on.

This is exactly why people want faction locks, far more trolls than people switching to the outnumbered faction.

pcar944

I am happy for faction lock, but in a sense that - ZoS should have never removed it to begin with

with that said, you are absolutely 100% right, there is absolutely NO reason to have it now after they allowed it for so long

IzzyStardust

code65536 wrote: »

pzschrek wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Naive question from an outsider looking in: How important is the campaign duration? Or, to put it more directly, why doesn't everyone just migrate to the 7-day unlocked campaign and leave the 30-day campaigns behind as the "dead" campaigns? Is there a particular reason why the "main" campaign that most people plays one has to be a 30-day?

It's pretty simple: Everyone plays there because everyone plays there.

So you're saying that people are on the 30-day not because it's 30-day, but because of inertia? But since all existing campaigns are closing down and people will be forced to select a new campaign when Elsweyr launches, why would that inertia matter? Why not just have everyone pick unlocked? It seems like that would simultaneously fix the problem and send ZOS a message (in the form that ZOS seems to care about the most--player statistics). Again, sorry if this sounds like a dumb question--I'm genuinely curious.

The reason I love reading posts written by you. Thoughtful, insightful, no hate/drama.

Adernath

I play since beta and always advocated for faction pride. It is something I was missing since 1T.

I am looking forward to fraction lock :-)

fastolfv_ESO

removing faction locks the first time made no sense at all, if you want to play with friends you and your friends can pick a campaign and all player together there, you have a completely reasonable option. As it stands we have people swapping to other alliances out or boredom and spamming the living bajesus out of zone trying to cause ***, and ironically alot of these people are your "friends" and guild members ixtyr so why dont you just move on

MipMip

Agree with the several posts above saying that faction lock will frustrate large portions of the player base, both among veteran players and casual players, and so contribute to further lowering the PvP population and making the game less attractive.

illutian

Marcus684 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

twitch_zero wrote: »

Perfect example just now of why people want a faction lock. On NA Vivec, DC held an AD scroll, AD tried to take it but dropped it, a DC player picked it up and then proceeded to run the scroll back to AD.

I was there when it happened, we know who did it.

Problem is, now you have another 100+ players thinking that faction lock is the way to go.

GG AD.

The anti-faction lockers are their own worst enemies. They do shite like this, and the noob pvpers, most of whom probably don't yet have an opinion about faction locks, think "Wow that was BS. Faction locks would be good if it prevented this".

Yep, it's like people don't know Discord exists. xD

Haashhtaag

illutian wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

twitch_zero wrote: »

Perfect example just now of why people want a faction lock. On NA Vivec, DC held an AD scroll, AD tried to take it but dropped it, a DC player picked it up and then proceeded to run the scroll back to AD.

I was there when it happened, we know who did it.

Problem is, now you have another 100+ players thinking that faction lock is the way to go.

GG AD.

The anti-faction lockers are their own worst enemies. They do shite like this, and the noob pvpers, most of whom probably don't yet have an opinion about faction locks, think "Wow that was BS. Faction locks would be good if it prevented this".

Yep, it's like people don't know Discord exists. xD

It’s that like Team Speak?

Glory

jimijac0me wrote: »

twitch_zero wrote: »

Perfect example just now of why people want a faction lock. On NA Vivec, DC held an AD scroll, AD tried to take it but dropped it, a DC player picked it up and then proceeded to run the scroll back to AD.

Minalan wrote: »

twitch_zero wrote: »

Perfect example just now of why people want a faction lock. On NA Vivec, DC held an AD scroll, AD tried to take it but dropped it, a DC player picked it up and then proceeded to run the scroll back to AD.

I was there when it happened, we know who did it.

Problem is, now you have another 100+ players thinking that faction lock is the way to go.

GG AD.

Yep and this is nothing new, like opposition turning siege and all the rest of the bs that goes on.

This is exactly why people want faction locks, far more trolls than people switching to the outnumbered faction.

This is a fallacy. It's like arguing that there are far more evil people in the world than good.

You feel like there is evil everywhere because those are the ones that stand out; meanwhile, everyone else doing well are not the focus of negative attention.

A true failure of the human mind.

LuciusOctavio

I really appreciate players who have been around the game for a long time. You have dedicated your time and effort into this game, shaping what it has become. Congratulations to you all.

But,

I totally agree with the new locks, we need to trial this and work it out. For too long, players have had the ability to extort the system, for too long ZOS has idly sat by and allowed it too occur. For too many times I have had to fight all sides to get a scroll to have it dropped on an enemy keep.

I love a challenge, I love PVP for this, adapt and overcome. Now a change is coming, and players crap their pants. Its like being called a "Zerg Leader" in chat. Players so afraid of this term.

Change is good, embrace change or move on.

Elong

LuciusOctavio wrote: »

I really appreciate players who have been around the game for a long time. You have dedicated your time and effort into this game, shaping what it has become. Congratulations to you all.

But,

I totally agree with the new locks, we need to trial this and work it out. For too long, players have had the ability to extort the system, for too long ZOS has idly sat by and allowed it too occur. For too many times I have had to fight all sides to get a scroll to have it dropped on an enemy keep.

I love a challenge, I love PVP for this, adapt and overcome. Now a change is coming, and players crap their pants. Its like being called a "Zerg Leader" in chat. Players so afraid of this term.

Change is good, embrace change or move on.

There is the exact same chance this is still going to happen. Faction hoppers weren't the only ones doing this.

Minyassa

This is going to completely kill my ability to play with some of my friends. And no, it's *not* the same with the 7-days, it's not the same sort of play.

This whole "we choose alliances for a reason" thing is BS. Most of us don't even choose alliances. We make a toon the race we want when we start playing the game, and maybe we pick a different one after we meet some people or we refine our choices in race/class for play, but alliance is a *side effect*. Without purchasing a special trait from the crown store to let us put any race in any faction, our alliances are chosen for us depending on what sort of character we decide to build, and if we end up with regular friends from playing in Cyrodiil on that randomly chosen alliance, our faction loyalty is chosen for us by chance. It's not like anyone reads up on ESO and goes "OH I'M GOING TO PICK YELLOW FOREVER AND EVER BECAUSE I LOVE BANANAS" or some crazy nonsense like that. Alliances mean *nothing*. Friendship and camaraderie with actual existing human players are the REAL places loyalty should be, and if you make friends in the game that are from all different alliances, this new change is screwing you over bigtime.

This was a nasty decision, ZOS. Just bad.

Haashhtaag

LuciusOctavio wrote: »

I really appreciate players who have been around the game for a long time. You have dedicated your time and effort into this game, shaping what it has become. Congratulations to you all.

But,

I totally agree with the new locks, we need to trial this and work it out. For too long, players have had the ability to extort the system, for too long ZOS has idly sat by and allowed it too occur. For too many times I have had to fight all sides to get a scroll to have it dropped on an enemy keep.

I love a challenge, I love PVP for this, adapt and overcome. Now a change is coming, and players crap their pants. Its like being called a "Zerg Leader" in chat. Players so afraid of this term.

Change is good, embrace change or move on.

ITS LITERALLY BEEN DONE BEFORE. IT DIDNT STOP ANY OF THE COMPLAINTS YOU PEOPLE HAVE. WHY DO THE SAME THING THAT DIDNT WORK AND FAILED AGAIN?

DisgracefulMind

LuciusOctavio wrote: »

I really appreciate players who have been around the game for a long time. You have dedicated your time and effort into this game, shaping what it has become. Congratulations to you all.

But,

I totally agree with the new locks, we need to trial this and work it out. For too long, players have had the ability to extort the system, for too long ZOS has idly sat by and allowed it too occur. For too many times I have had to fight all sides to get a scroll to have it dropped on an enemy keep.

I love a challenge, I love PVP for this, adapt and overcome. Now a change is coming, and players crap their pants. Its like being called a "Zerg Leader" in chat. Players so afraid of this term.

Change is good, embrace change or move on.

Gonna be honest, it's usually the same faction players trolling this stuff. :P