Round Round it goes... LoS stuff

idk

Miriel wrote: »

@Crixus8000
If you for some reason dont target new players, wich i find hard to beleave, since most of them i talk to, that do this admitt it !.

This seems to be your foundation and as such it is flawed. Either you misunderstood what the other players said or they did not explain it well.

Of course I can see a noob player circling around an object for an inordinate about of time without being able to stop or kill the player they are chasing since a more skilled player or group would be able to kill the player kiting them. However, that does not mean anyone is targeting a noob. It is just that the noob does not know enough to just stop and move on until they gain more playing skill in the game.

Miriel

@idk
There is very little to missunderstand, either you go to these places with the intent or you dont... And me and others, even in this thread, that have talked to people that do this, they admitt they do it couse off easy fights, one even excused it with, it pays the bills...

Its fine if you want to be a parasite on pvp, by all means do it, just dont say its skill or a challange, since the ratio for actually get a good fight is mostly none, when people that can fight come, they will still beat you or you run away since they have since long get idea of what in that tower, numbers etc...

As a example, ill equal it with bow builds that defend keeps, and think they can hold the keep by standing on the walls and hide on top floor... and then run away when people come top...

Miriel

@Crixus8000
Iwe been here since alfa, by this time iwe seen mostly everything... and like im trying to say, when you go to those tower, most of the times you will fight people that cant challange you, and by the time the good players come, your toast anyway... so getting good challanging fights that require skill, its very very low... you are much more likely to get a big small scale in BGs...

You should try surf the frontline, couse they very often break up in small skirmishes, and you can harass the zergs edges if you dont want to fight it... but good small scale fights happen alot more often at those places then at a tower, couse those fights lasts longer... but if im gussing right, you guys simply dont have the skill for it or want the challange, hence you go to the towers to fight new players...

idk

Miriel wrote: »

@idk
There is very little to missunderstand, either you go to these places with the intent or you dont... And me and others, even in this thread, that have talked to people that do this, they admitt they do it couse off easy fights, one even excused it with, it pays the bills...

Its fine if you want to be a parasite on pvp, by all means do it, just dont say its skill or a challange, since the ratio for actually get a good fight is mostly none, when people that can fight come, they will still beat you or you run away since they have since long get idea of what in that tower, numbers etc...

As a example, ill equal it with bow builds that defend keeps, and think they can hold the keep by standing on the walls and hide on top floor... and then run away when people come top...

With this post it because totally clear what OP is actually speaking of and equality clear he does not understand it himself.

It is not about the LoS, it is about players capturing resources and farming people with less sense than skill as they come to take the resource back. The LoS around the tower is just the end game.

The thing is, this is those players either figure out when to ask for help or avoid going into the tower or they do not. It really is something each player needs to learn for themselves.

Hopefully OP will gain some understanding this point that will help him in Cyrodiil, and that he completely misunderstands what he is speaking of here.

Miriel

@idk
As i said all along and says in the OP, this is about the players that go to the towers with intent to target new players, its not rocket sience...

With all due respect, reread OP, if someone makes a thread about broken blue pants, debate that, dont try to cherry pick one thing, and then debate just pants... its rude, and bad form

frozywozy

@Miriel - just see the situation upside down. vet players should man up and play on the competitive campaign during off hours when it's not laggy instead of constantly seeking fights on Sotha and Shor where most new players will go first.

idk

Miriel wrote: »

@idk
As i said all along and says in the OP, this is about the players that go to the towers with intent to target new players, its not rocket sience...

With all due respect, reread OP, if someone makes a thread about broken blue pants, debate that, dont try to cherry pick one thing, and then debate just pants... its rude, and bad form

As I said, it seems you misunderstand what is happening. They are not specifically targeting new or unskilled players just because the LoS enemy players and especially just because they LoS around the tower.

Granted, some may take the resource hoping noobs will come and try to take it back but they really cannot specifically choose who will come.

You seem to have your cause and effect backwards.

Miriel

@frozywozy not entirly... chanse for more small scale fights, is better on shor and sotha, thats for sure, even if dc decided to roll the map with two rather big guilds, that sorta should focus on vivec, but thats anouther story...

iwe played on vivec for awhile and the pattern is the same, these experienced players usually a group of 3-5 go to a tower, then fight as long as new inexperienced players come, wich requires NO skill, and offers NO challange, many times these so called good players could even stay around the flag, to make it interesting to give em a chanse, but they dont... and when the good players do respond, they get killed and or hunted down... so again , not much a good fight anyway...

Im not saying they shouldent do this, people are free to play as they like, all im saying is, dont say its skill, or a challange... As a example, ill equal it with bow builds that defend keeps, and think they can hold the keep by standing on the walls and hide on top floor... and then run away when people come top...

idk

frozywozy wrote: »

@Miriel - just see the situation upside down. vet players should man up and play on the competitive campaign during off hours when it's not laggy instead of constantly seeking fights on Sotha and Shor where most new players will go first.

This is just baseless speculation that somehow new players go to less populated campaigns.

Miriel

@idk
it doesnt really matter where you to do it, if you do it with the intent of going after new players... and the excuse i want small scale fight, is likely higher on sotha and shor, simply couse there is no pop to send a big group, and as @frozywozy points also to, on off hours at vivec its bascially the same...

but that is the underlaying issue, if you guys dont give the new players a break, they will never learn or catch up, you cant expect them to git good and learn what some of you learned over YEARS... pvp is suffering bad, we cant even fill up one server any more and the pvd circus gets worse and worse simple couse there is no pop around, wich makes even more give up on pvp...

Sanctum74

Players purchased the game with their own money and are entitled to play the game as they see fit. I personally don't tower farm or gank, but if that's what people want to do, then fine let it be.

You keep complaining of toxic behavior, yet you create a thread insulting people and telling them they should change their play style because you think you know what's best for everyone.

Hmm kinda sounds like the definition of toxic behavior to me.

idk

OMG. LOL

Again, we are back to OP wanting us to dumb down our game play so they have a chance thinking they will learn.

Join a PvP guild. Seek information and people to play with so you can learn. If ESO is to challenging then find a simpler game.

Your entire premise is false.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Players purchased the game with their own money and are entitled to play the game as they see fit. I personally don't tower farm or gank, but if that's what people want to do, then fine let it be.

You keep complaining of toxic behavior, yet you create a thread insulting people and telling them they should change their play style because you think you know what's best for everyone.

Hmm kinda sounds like the definition of toxic behavior to me.

He is not even talking about the tower. Read his last post. He starts off stating that it does not matter where it happens.

He seems to want players to not use the terrain even though the terrain was specifically designed for use in combat. Anyone who knows the history of Cyrodiil development and MFirror's previous experience understands that much.

Crixus8000

Miriel wrote: »

@idk


but that is the underlaying issue, if you guys dont give the new players a break, they will never learn or catch up, you cant expect them to git good and learn what some of you learned over YEARS...

I completely disagree with this.

Sure you can learn different ways but they won't learn much by others lowering their skill and playing differently. I learned this game faster than I thought I would. At first it seemed impossible but I would look for fights against the best players, get destroyed and learn from it, and often ask them advice. You don't learn much by fighting noobs, just as you wouldn't learn much by someone playing like a noob, as in facetanking 20 people because they won't use los.

idk

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Miriel wrote: »

@idk


but that is the underlaying issue, if you guys dont give the new players a break, they will never learn or catch up, you cant expect them to git good and learn what some of you learned over YEARS...

I completely disagree with this.

Sure you can learn different ways but they won't learn much by others lowering their skill and playing differently. I learned this game faster than I thought I would. At first it seemed impossible but I would look for fights against the best players, get destroyed and learn from it, and often ask them advice. You don't learn much by fighting noobs, just as you would learn much by someone playign like a noob, as in facetanking 20 people because they won't use los.

+1 Very well said.

Miriel

@Crixus8000
its not about you lowering your skill, dont cherry pick... its about choise and intent... in real life i can pick up a gun and shoot myself in the foot, just couse i can do something dosent make it right or the smart thing to do...

going and pvd keeps off time hours is a choise, its a consequence off that we have bleed people in pvp, and are spread thin during certain hours...

for the same reason, and again, play as you like, thats not the point, im just saying dont with intent go after new players... wich if you read the OP would realice, its still requires no skill, and is no challange... wich is a counter point to what some state as a excuse...

As a example, ill equal it with bow builds that defend keeps, and think they can hold the keep by standing on the walls and hide on top floor... and then run away when people come top...

LegacyDM

I'll jump in. The OP has a point. The so called good players don't do anything special except run around using LOS and dump Ult.

Miriel wrote: »

So we might not have doors on towers anymore, but instead people enjoy the run around in Towers, technically abusing the LoS mechanic to not get hit, build ulti and dump... rince repeat...

What makes me sad is, that many of the player doing this is good players and when talking to them, their excuse is, its only viable to survive big groups, and thats not true, couse if you run into a bigger group with better players you still die, since they do the same... So technically this is just a way for the " good " players to prey on new players that might not understnad the LoS mechanics, and why ?

When PvP is in the bad shape it is, we can barely fill up ONE server, and you pick on the new, the people we should help get better ?, instead some of you take hours upon hours to do the same boring thing, run around in tower, abusing a LoS Mechanic... and if you face people that can fight you, you just try to run away, wich mostly just ends with you all getting picked off one by one, and if new players try to ask you, you usually just reply "git good"...

How about you guys git good and help pvp, help the new players... instead of being bottom feeders couse honestly, all you so called aces, pros and good players in small groups that pick on new, your just vultures in my opinion that avoid the better players !

Don't listen to these complainers. You are spot on with your assessment. All these "pro" streamers and so called "elite" players do is hump around the towers LOS using unkillable templars, stam sorcs, and stam wardens dumping dawnbreaker ults. When there is an open field between ROE and Nikel or Nikel and Ash or Sej and BRK they are nowhere to be found. They are too busy humping towers or under bridges. Whats funny, ironic, and hypocritical is that these premades that claim they are doing it because they are anti-zerg are nothing but a zerg group themselves. Countless times I've been solo or with my buddy and I get spotted they all rush to dump their ult on me. Pretty clear I just got zerged by a premade of 6+.

Now in all fairness. Motives are different among different groups. Sometimes the PvP pop is so low that they could do it to bring action to them rather than having to spend time looking for fights. Fair enough. But I believe the chief motive is like you say, kill noobs and boost ego.

When you've been around long enough in Cyrodil you know whose who in the zoo and who the elitists arrogant clicks are. Just ignore and do your own thing and play the way you want. At the end of the day these people are to arrogant to want to help new players. I truly wonder how these people act in real life. Based on how they act in game it amazes me how they ever succeed in real life.

ZOS should seriously up the amount of damage towers receive and reduce the time it takes to destroy them. That would put an end to this nonsense.

idk

It is about lowering ones skill. That is exactly what you are saying throughout this thread.

You state as though those that LoS are picking on weaker targets as though that is always the case and we are telling you that is totally wrong.

It is you that really needs to read this thread again. I think you have been skimming over our posts.

Miriel wrote: »

@idk but that is the underlaying issue, if you guys dont give the new players a break, they will never learn or catch up, you cant expect them to git good and learn what some of you learned over YEARS... .

This here puts into context what you have been saying and it is based on a false assumption.

Remove the chance to make a mistake and you remove a chance to learn.

Sanctum74

Miriel wrote: »

@Sanctum74
As i have pointed out, you are free to play as you like, thats NOT what im arguing, you know broken blue pants... im arguing people that with intent go after new and inexperienced people and then say its skill, or a challange, or that they want good fights, when its none off these...

if you want to farm new players with no skill no challange, then knock yourself out, but that is just a parasite on PvP in my opinion.. we should help new players... and there is better ways to get good challanging fights that require skill

Maybe you should take your own advice and reread your responses because that's exactly what you're saying. Telling people if they don't play the game your way then they are toxic, unskilled, parasites.

As I pointed out insulting people for their chosen play style is rude and toxic. The same type of behavior you're complaining of.

Miriel

@Crixus8000
yes, i take up several things in the OP, thats about intent... if we debate about certain aspects of pvp, that all are part of what im debating, you should stay on topic, im not debating pvp as a whole, or debating that you should lower your skill...

just couse i call out a mechanic as a example to a issue that used when you with intent go after certain players, that not telling you to lower your skill... then you cant just state i tell you to lower your skill, that fabricating or making things up, again broken blue pants... example if i use swords as a example when we debate a skill, doesnt mean i debate swords as a whole...

Again, im debating people that with intent go after new players, since its no skill, no challange... Its funny, i have several times in this thread stated you are free to play as you like, im just pointing out, what many agree with me about, going after new players with intent requires no skill... and is a poor way of getting good challanging fights...

Irylia

idk wrote: »

OP wants us to nerf our own playstyle and bring it down to the level of the new players as some means to help them. That is like thinking the worst NBA team would improve by playing a high school team because the other NBA teams are just to tough.

frozywozy wrote: »

@Miriel - just see the situation upside down. vet players should man up and play on the competitive campaign during off hours when it's not laggy instead of constantly seeking fights on Sotha and Shor where most new players will go first.

How about man up and cut their group in half.

Elong

frozywozy wrote: »

@Miriel - just see the situation upside down. vet players should man up and play on the competitive campaign during off hours when it's not laggy instead of constantly seeking fights on Sotha and Shor where most new players will go first.

Whats the difference between 1 player farming half a dozen average players and Drac farming 40 average players?

Rianai

From my experience the players who run away from even numbered fights against good players are usually found inside zergs (which btw also provides some kind of LOS), not so much in towers.

Elong

Miriel wrote: »

@Elong
Nha i think it should be brought up, and payed attention to, personally i think you are making a fool of yourself for defending a playstyle that is with intent targettting those that is new and less skilled... i honeslty think these players could contribute alot more to eso and pvp... the more so considering the shape pvp is in..


But to each their own, just dont say it requires skill, is a challange when its not, or make up other lame excuses... be far better these players dropped their ego and jsut admitted openly what they do, but perhaps thats not so easy to do, and perhaps that why they dont face the good players and or just run away...

I don't think playing in a big group requires skill either. Each to their own.

Miriel

@Elong
Thats anouther debate, and generally i dont disagree with you... but i have seen alot of off shoot really fun little skirmishes thats result of zergs clashing, and their usually lasting alot longer since you have a imidiete threat around you, when its done in and around keeps...

This thread is about certain people, with intent going after new and or less skilled players...

LegacyDM

I'll say it again. All ZOS has to do is nerf any type of structure. Encourage the players to fight out in the open. You know that little house outside fare? let a siege destroy it in 2 hits. Towers? No problem, siege destroys in 3 hits. Tower outside roe that ball groups like to shack up in and go up the windy staircase? Blow it up in 2 hits.

You solo people want to LOS around rocks and trees and then dump ult? Sure, fine. But ball groups holding up in a house or tower just to farm noobs is pathetic, lacks creativity, and takes no skill. Fight in the open on the battlefield like ZOS intended. Stop being cowards. I say flush em out like the vermin they are!

LeifErickson

LegacyDM wrote: »

I'll say it again. All ZOS has to do is nerf any type of structure. Encourage the players to fight out in the open. You know that little house outside fare? let a siege destroy it in 2 hits. Towers? No problem, siege destroys in 3 hits. Tower outside roe that ball groups like to shack up in and go up the windy staircase? Blow it up in 2 hits.

You solo people want to LOS around rocks and trees and then dump ult? Sure, fine. But ball groups holding up in a house or tower just to farm noobs is pathetic, lacks creativity, and takes no skill. Fight in the open on the battlefield like ZOS intended. Stop being cowards. I say flush em out like the vermin they are!

Says the nightblade with pocket los.

Miriel

i wish, the bodies wasent hollow, but actually had collision substance in cyrodil... that make things alot more interesting, couse then you just couldent run right through people

DisgracefulMind

lol "I want to make it easier to kill players while I outnumber them" is basically this argument.

Maryal

I agree people do it to farm (taking advantage of newer players), some think it's funny, sometimes people do it as a way to distract newer players from noticing that their keep is being attacked.

However, no one is forcing people to participate in this merry-go-round ritual and new players need to learn when they are being played.

On the other hand, sometimes chasing someone around a tower or group of rocks with a 'catch me if you can' attitude can be mildly amusing and a decent way to pass the time when nothing else is going on.

idk

Irylia wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP wants us to nerf our own playstyle and bring it down to the level of the new players as some means to help them. That is like thinking the worst NBA team would improve by playing a high school team because the other NBA teams are just to tough.

frozywozy wrote: »

@Miriel - just see the situation upside down. vet players should man up and play on the competitive campaign during off hours when it's not laggy instead of constantly seeking fights on Sotha and Shor where most new players will go first.

How about man up and cut their group in half.

This comment makes less sense than what OP is saying. I guess you are assuming we all run in large groups.